Burmese ruby opinions

[Sydneyphoenix]

That is kind of you to say! Ruby nuby may even be generous for me, I love it I am quite colored-stone curious though terribly intimidated by the next-level knowledge needed to begin understanding this subforum. But I saw the pretty color and thought I remembered someone on PS had been looking for a ruby.

If you don’t mind sharing your expert eye for a learning opportunity, in your opinion was this ruby a decent example of a stone of this kind? And if it didn’t appear typical of its origin/type, would that be potentially due to its color, or cut, or something else?


Oh wow! The IG post said it was 1 carat so perhaps it was somewhat affordable? I hope it was someone here so we can see photos.

I talked to Inken who owns that business, he/she was quoting USD $25-30K for a fine 1ct Burmese pigeon blood ruby.

Yeah, so the color and clarity of that ruby are exceptional. A lot of Burmese material pulls too pink for me, but that one is decidedly red with secondary pink. It's medium tone and vivid saturation. The listing doesn't mention fluorescence, but I can almost guarantee it is strong. And to have a 100% eye clean Mogok ruby? And untreated? Exceedingly rare!

Agree with your assessment.

 

[VividRed]

I talked to Inken who owns that business, he/she was quoting USD $25-30K for a fine 1ct Burmese pigeon blood ruby.



Agree with your assessment.

Inken is a woman. Source: we met 5 years ago

There, it’s settled

 

[toomuchB]

Oh wow! The IG post said it was 1 carat so perhaps it was somewhat affordable? I hope it was someone here so we can see photos.

A user reported here that a similar one by this seller sold for 28k.
She has amazing stuff with prices to match.

 

[MiniMinerva]

Yeah, so the color and clarity of that ruby are exceptional. A lot of Burmese material pulls too pink for me, but that one is decidedly red with secondary pink. It's medium tone and vivid saturation. The listing doesn't mention fluorescence, but I can almost guarantee it is strong. And to have a 100% eye clean Mogok ruby? And untreated? Exceedingly rare!

Wow, impressive! It sounds like quite a rare gem. How are you able to tell by just looking that it would likely have strong fluorescence? And would that be able to make this type of clear stone glowy or velvety irl? It doesn’t look to have any silk in the interior like the other Burmese stones here have had, though it is unheated?

I talked to Inken who owns that business, he/she was quoting USD $25-30K for a fine 1ct Burmese pigeon blood ruby.

Pigeon blood wasn’t mentioned in the description I don’t think, could it be possible the color of that stone didn’t quite fall into that category?

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

A user reported here that a similar one by this seller sold for 28k.
She has amazing stuff with prices to match.

You mean this one? Yeah I found it on Inken’s website.

Wow, impressive! It sounds like quite a rare gem. How are you able to tell by just looking that it would likely have strong fluorescence? And would that be able to make this type of clear stone glowy or velvety irl? It doesn’t look to have any silk in the interior like the other Burmese stones here have had, though it is unheated?


Pigeon blood wasn’t mentioned in the description I don’t think, could it be possible the color of that stone didn’t quite fall into that category?

I think fluorescence can be inferred from slightly pink overture against sunlight, though I could be wrong about it! I only realised just now that it doesn’t say pigeon blood. I think it probably will fit into GRS pigeon blood but GIA may not give it. That it is eye-clean without much silk will be one of the factors for its likely high price.

 

[toomuchB]

Pigeon blood wasn’t mentioned in the description I don’t think, could it be possible the color of that stone didn’t quite fall into that category?

Oh I see, I missed that, good catch.

You mean this one? Yeah I found it on Inken’s website.

Yes that one!

 

[Crimson]

Yay , just saw this on their Instagram. Luscious!

 

[Avondale]

Yay , just saw this on their Instagram. Luscious!

I saw this yesterday. I gasped when they pushed the emerald cut in the frame.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Inken is a woman. Source: we met 5 years ago

There, it’s settled

And a very lovely one at that!

 

[VividRed]

And a very lovely one at that!

Indeed

 

[Autumn in New England]

Wow, impressive! It sounds like quite a rare gem. How are you able to tell by just looking that it would likely have strong fluorescence? And would that be able to make this type of clear stone glowy or velvety irl? It doesn’t look to have any silk in the interior like the other Burmese stones here have had, though it is unheated?


Pigeon blood wasn’t mentioned in the description I don’t think, could it be possible the color of that stone didn’t quite fall into that category?

Mostly because it's Burmese origin, which tends to produce material with strong fluorescence (low iron content), and also because I know Inken would value that trait amongst rubies. Also, the color is so radiant, I can almost guarantee it.

Fluorescence will definitely give a ruby that "glow," especially in sunlight (because of the UV rays). It's a miracle of nature that ruby is colored red by chromium and then its fluorescence is also red.

You're right, I really don't see any silk... again, so rare for untreated Burmese material. Some folks really love silk (my ruby has a little), because it creates that velvety appearance you mentioned, can enhance glow, and can also hide minor inclusions and cutting defects. Me personally? The cleaner, the better.

ETA: Forgot to answer the pigeon's blood question! I myself do not put much stock in those trade terms. I go by my eyeballs. Since I haven't seen the gem in person, I can't be 100% certain. But the term is usually used to described a deep, pure red. So perhaps this gem is either lighter in tone or a bit more pink. Or maybe it just wasn't mentioned in the listing. Whatever the case, I'm jealous of the person who now owns it.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I saw this yesterday. I gasped when they pushed the emerald cut in the frame.

That emerald would be my favorite of the lot too.

Although I suppose the big oval (roval? coval?) would be closer to ideal color. The latter is probably the $45k one, based on color and the fact it's the largest. I wonder the weight? I always think my gems are really fine until I see Inken's. lol

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

Yay , just saw this on their Instagram. Luscious!

I saw this yesterday. I gasped when they pushed the emerald cut in the frame.

I wonder if the cheapest of this lot-USD$10K-will pass as pigeon blood, not sure which one it is from the video

Mostly because it's Burmese origin, which tends to produce material with strong fluorescence (low iron content), and also because I know Inken would value that trait amongst rubies. Also, the color is so radiant, I can almost guarantee it.

Fluorescence will definitely give a ruby that "glow," especially in sunlight (because of the UV rays). It's a miracle of nature that ruby is colored red by chromium and then its fluorescence is also red.

You're right, I really don't see any silk... again, so rare for untreated Burmese material. Some folks really love silk (my ruby has a little), because it creates that velvety appearance you mentioned, can enhance glow, and can also hide minor inclusions and cutting defects. Me personally? The cleaner, the better.

ETA: Forgot to answer the pigeon's blood question! I myself do not put much stock in those trade terms. I go by my eyeballs. Since I haven't seen the gem in person, I can't be 100% certain. But the term is usually used to described a deep, pure red. So perhaps this gem is either lighter in tone or a bit more pink. Or maybe it just wasn't mentioned in the listing. Whatever the case, I'm jealous of the person who now owns it.

Thank you for your informative post!

That emerald would be my favorite of the lot too.

Although I suppose the big oval (roval? coval?) would be closer to ideal color. The latter is probably the $45k one, based on color and the fact it's the largest. I wonder the weight? I always think my gems are really fine until I see Inken's. lol

Emerald or oval, I don’t mind, just give one to me!

 

[Avondale]

The latter is probably the $45k one, based on color and the fact it's the largest.

I agree, the roval surely is the most expensive one. In terms of price per carat, though, I believe the emerald one shouldn't be too far behind, and only because of the smaller size. In any case, to me it is superior to the larger roval in practically every aspect.

If it wasn't impertinent, I'd message Inken to ask the weights and prices and then I'd organise a guessing game here. Would be so much fun, and would satisfy a fair bit of curiosity!

 

[Autumn in New England]

I agree, the roval surely is the most expensive one. In terms of price per carat, though, I believe the emerald one shouldn't be too far behind, and only because of the smaller size. In any case, to me it is superior to the larger roval in practically every aspect.

If it wasn't impertinent, I'd message Inken to ask the weights and prices and then I'd organise a guessing game here. Would be so much fun, and would satisfy a fair bit of curiosity!

Can't hurt to ask! Free publicity!

 

[Avondale]

Can't hurt to ask! Free publicity!

Nuh-uh, I dare not! Can you imagine? You're a high end jeweller and some internet rando just messages you on IG and asks for the individual prices of 300k (probably) worth of rubies? I shudder at the second-hand embarrassment I feel just thinking about it, I definitely don't want to experience the real deal first hand.

 

[Autumn in New England]

@Avondale I think this is the emerald one. Described as raspberry, so maybe a little more pinkish in person. That saturation... I simply can't.

I also love that it broke the 1ct. mark. I though it might be smaller. Please buy it, so we can all drool forever.

Click.

 

[Avondale]

@Avondale I think this is the emerald one. Described as raspberry, so maybe a little more pinkish in person. That saturation... I simply can't.

I also love that it broke the 1ct. mark. I though it might be smaller. Please buy it, so we can all drool forever.

Click.

Wish I could! Really, it's spectacular! And the moment someone says raspberry, my brain goes "ding-ding-ding!". But I don't make that kind of money. Besides, after my last couple purchases I must remain firmly on ban island. I've done enough impulsive buying for the year.

 

[Bron357]

Ohhh, look. I can sell my kidney, soul and first born and buy that one 4th from top and make a pair of earrings.

 

[MiniMinerva]

Mostly because it's Burmese origin, which tends to produce material with strong fluorescence (low iron content), and also because I know Inken would value that trait amongst rubies. Also, the color is so radiant, I can almost guarantee it.

Fluorescence will definitely give a ruby that "glow," especially in sunlight (because of the UV rays). It's a miracle of nature that ruby is colored red by chromium and then its fluorescence is also red.

You're right, I really don't see any silk... again, so rare for untreated Burmese material. Some folks really love silk (my ruby has a little), because it creates that velvety appearance you mentioned, can enhance glow, and can also hide minor inclusions and cutting defects. Me personally? The cleaner, the better.

ETA: Forgot to answer the pigeon's blood question! I myself do not put much stock in those trade terms. I go by my eyeballs. Since I haven't seen the gem in person, I can't be 100% certain. But the term is usually used to described a deep, pure red. So perhaps this gem is either lighter in tone or a bit more pink. Or maybe it just wasn't mentioned in the listing. Whatever the case, I'm jealous of the person who now owns it.

Ahh, thank you for sharing your eyeballs! That radiant color looked almost unreal so it is helpful to know that part of the explanation was some form of internal fluorescent light in addition to external. It’s interesting to see this miracle can happen even without any silk inside. Your ruby sounds luscious btw, if there is a thread for it please point me in its direction!

I’m jealous of the person who now owns this too, whatever the color is called. And perhaps if that means my color taste isn’t pigeon blood level there is hope for someday haha. Would one look for color descriptors like “vivid red” then? Or raspberry? I remember seeing stunning stones here on PS with a maybe similar overall look (maybe @VividRed ?) that were categorized pigeon blood though, so probably my unsophisticated nuby eye can’t tell the nuances yet.

I wonder if the cheapest of this lot-USD$10K-will pass as pigeon blood, not sure which one it is from the video

It looks like possibly some of these may be similar or even more pink than the stone I had linked to before, so if that one wasn’t pigeon blood then maybe these lot would not all pass either? Hope you will share what you find out if you’re maybe considering it! Excited to see what’s next for your quest in any case.

Gah they are all so beautiful! Someone please buy one! @Bron357 your earrings would be incredible!!!

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

Ahh, thank you for sharing your eyeballs! That radiant color looked almost unreal so it is helpful to know that part of the explanation was some form of internal fluorescent light in addition to external. It’s interesting to see this miracle can happen even without any silk inside. Your ruby sounds luscious btw, if there is a thread for it please point me in its direction!

I’m jealous of the person who now owns this too, whatever the color is called. And perhaps if that means my color taste isn’t pigeon blood level there is hope for someday haha. Would one look for color descriptors like “vivid red” then? Or raspberry? I remember seeing stunning stones here on PS with a maybe similar overall look (maybe @VividRed ?) that were categorized pigeon blood though, so probably my unsophisticated nuby eye can’t tell the nuances yet.


It looks like possibly some of these may be similar or even more pink than the stone I had linked to before, so if that one wasn’t pigeon blood then maybe these lot would not all pass either? Hope you will share what you find out if you’re maybe considering it! Excited to see what’s next for your quest in any case.

Gah they are all so beautiful! Someone please buy one! @Bron357 your earrings would be incredible!!!

I am having a stone repolished at the moment, should be done any day now…

Ohhh, look. I can sell my kidney, soul and first born and buy that one 4th from top and make a pair of earrings.

Do it, do it! :p

Wish I could! Really, it's spectacular! And the moment someone says raspberry, my brain goes "ding-ding-ding!". But I don't make that kind of money. Besides, after my last couple purchases I must remain firmly on ban island. I've done enough impulsive buying for the year.

Me too, assuming this stone I repolished goes through. The refund for the 1.07ct stone I returned to vendor is a nightmare too!

 

[Autumn in New England]

Wish I could! Really, it's spectacular! And the moment someone says raspberry, my brain goes "ding-ding-ding!". But I don't make that kind of money. Besides, after my last couple purchases I must remain firmly on ban island. I've done enough impulsive buying for the year.

You already have a lovely collection, my friend! But yeah, I can empathize. I'm not only on ban island, I'm on ban planet. I have no intention of buying any more gems ever (lol... I know... no one here ever keeps their word, but I intend to try!). I completed my little list, and now I only want to have the rest of my loose gems set periodically. The only scenario that could ruin my plan is if I decide to upgrade something (and sell the previous). But no additional gems, please lawd.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Ahh, thank you for sharing your eyeballs! That radiant color looked almost unreal so it is helpful to know that part of the explanation was some form of internal fluorescent light in addition to external. It’s interesting to see this miracle can happen even without any silk inside. Your ruby sounds luscious btw, if there is a thread for it please point me in its direction!

I’m jealous of the person who now owns this too, whatever the color is called. And perhaps if that means my color taste isn’t pigeon blood level there is hope for someday haha. Would one look for color descriptors like “vivid red” then? Or raspberry? I remember seeing stunning stones here on PS with a maybe similar overall look (maybe @VividRed ?) that were categorized pigeon blood though, so probably my unsophisticated nuby eye can’t tell the nuances yet.


It looks like possibly some of these may be similar or even more pink than the stone I had linked to before, so if that one wasn’t pigeon blood then maybe these lot would not all pass either? Hope you will share what you find out if you’re maybe considering it! Excited to see what’s next for your quest in any case.

Gah they are all so beautiful! Someone please buy one! @Bron357 your earrings would be incredible!!!

I don't think you can go wrong with "vivid red" (like our resident namesake ). Pigeon's blood has been used for hundreds of years, so there's some familiarity and prestige that goes along with it. But its interpretation (or misuse) can run the gamut like any other descriptor. Of course, all of these terms are subjective, but we have to start somewhere. I like the way Lotus lab does it... yes, they'll often use trade names, but they also break down the color by hue, tone, and saturation. Since I trust Richard Hughes implicitly, I find it really helpful. In that case, I'd aim for red or pinkish-red, medium tone, and vivid saturation.

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

You already have a lovely collection, my friend! But yeah, I can empathize. I'm not only on ban island, I'm on ban planet. I have no intention of buying any more gems ever (lol... I know... no one here ever keeps their word, but I intend to try!). I completed my little list, and now I only want to have the rest of my loose gems set periodically. The only scenario that could ruin my plan is if I decide to upgrade something (and sell the previous). But no additional gems, please lawd.

Can’t wait to see your designs!

 

[Dr_Diesel]

I asked them to update the GRS certificate after the repolishing is done, as the weight and dimensions would have changed, the vendor says he can get it done by Wednesday. Didn’t realise the recertification can be done that quickly, especially given international transit, or do they just add it as an addendum or do measurements only and keep the information from original certificate if done recently?

If this is GRS in Thailand, and the vendor has a strong relationship with them, they can get it pushed through quickly....and in those circumstances, GRS can also be more "generous" with their color grading. (Ahem)

 

[Dr_Diesel]

I don't think you can go wrong with "vivid red" (like our resident namesake ). Pigeon's blood has been used for hundreds of years, so there's some familiarity and prestige that goes along with it. But its interpretation (or misuse) can run the gamut like any other descriptor. Of course, all of these terms are subjective, but we have to start somewhere. I like the way Lotus lab does it... yes, they'll often use trade names, but they also break down the color by hue, tone, and saturation. Since I trust Richard Hughes implicitly, I find it really helpful. In that case, I'd aim for red or pinkish-red, medium tone, and vivid saturation.

Agreed on all counts!

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

If this is GRS in Thailand, and the vendor has a strong relationship with them, they can get it pushed through quickly....and in those circumstances, GRS can also be more "generous" with their color grading. (Ahem)

The original certificate is by Dr Peretti in Switzerland, so guess that doesn’t matter so much, just changing weight and dimensions after repolishing. Will see if the second certificate is by someone else!

 

[Dr_Diesel]

The original certificate is by Dr Peretti in Switzerland, so guess that doesn’t matter so much, just changing weight and dimensions after repolishing. Will see if the second certificate is by someone else!

Every GRS certificate issued anywhere in the world has that same signature. It doesn’t matter where the certificate is from or who evaluated the stone. It’s not a real signature. It’s a printed form.

… but they will give it the same color grade. They’re not going to contradict themselves.

My guess is that you’re dealing with a seller in Thailand, and the original certificate came from the GRS in Silom/Bang Rak (I believe it’s on Mahesak Soi 3), as will the new one… even though it will still say “GRS Switzerland.”

Trust me, I know that area well and I know the entire scene surrounding it quite well.

I can guarantee 100% that the stone was not evaluated by Dr. Peretti himself and has probably never been to Switzerland.

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

Every GRS certificate issued anywhere in the world has that same signature. It doesn’t matter where the certificate is from or who evaluated the stone. It’s not a real signature. It’s a printed form.

… but they will give it the same color grade. They’re not going to contradict themselves.

My guess is that you’re dealing with a seller in Thailand, and the original certificate came from the GRS in Silom/Bang Rak (I believe it’s on Mahesak Soi 3), as will the new one… even though it will still say “GRS Switzerland.”

Trust me, I know that area well and I know the entire scene surrounding it.

I can guarantee 100% that the stone was not evaluated by Dr. Peretti himself and has probably never been to Switzerland.

Isn’t that a bit dodgy? Surely it’s better for their credibility and reputation to put the actual evaluator’s name and signature, as long as they use the same standard doesn’t matter whose name is on paper.

 

[Dr_Diesel]

Every GRS certificate issued anywhere in the world has that same signature. It doesn’t matter where the certificate is from or who evaluated the stone. It’s not a real signature. It’s a printed form.

… but they will give it the same color grade. They’re not going to contradict themselves.

My guess is that you’re dealing with a seller in Thailand, and the original certificate came from the GRS in Silom/Bang Rak (I believe it’s on Mahesak Soi 3), as will the new one… even though it will still say “GRS Switzerland.”

Trust me, I know that area well and I know the entire scene surrounding it quite well.

I can guarantee 100% that the stone was not evaluated by Dr. Peretti himself and has probably never been to Switzerland.

Don’t get me wrong, their evaluations are legitimate and it is a reputable lab nevertheless.

You can trust everything on the certificate except for the trade name that they give to the color. They’re pretty loose with that, especially for good customers.