Buy princess online b/c of AGS & ASET reports, or local reputable jeweler who selects best cut GIAs?

[ericg]

So I''ve done the research here on PS, visited some downtown Chicago jewelers like Dimend Scassi, M Martin & Co, and Windy City Diamonds to look at princess stones just under one carat. Now I''m stuck deciding between online jewelers (like Good Old Gold) who post multiple 3rd party reports on cut and light performance which give me piece of mind, or going with a local reputable jeweler like M Martin who hand selects stones for best of cut without such reports, just GIA...

Being an engineer, I initially liked all the numbers and tools. I asked at M Martin & Co about evaluations like ASET, Sarin, AGS0, etc., and he talked about a trade show where a guy put an ugly stone in one, and the machine gave it an excellent grading. I understand that of course those tools have some value, but is he right that they can''t really be trusted? (Maybe even just tools friendly to jewelers wanting to push stones) It made sense to me that that''s why the GIA for example doesn''t use such tools in grading... Is that thinking right?

It seems that princess cuts are a difficult stone to give absolute advice on, so even if I post all the specs here that won''t truly help. At M Martin I was shown the differences between a great princess cut and a poor/common one. I can notice big differences, but I''m afraid I can''t tell the difference between an ideal cut princess and just a very good cut princess he''d show me.
It seems like it''s all about the eyes, and that''s why I like all the multiple reports at GOG or knowing it''s a AGS0 ideal princesses. But maybe I need to just trust my own eyes to get it "good enough" in-person and trust the judgment of M Martin & Co (family business for 60+ years) whom other people have and been satisfied by looking at reviews. I guess it''s just hard for me to get over the barrier of trusting the jeweler''s judgment of what''s a good stone and good price for it beyond my amateur-trained eyes with a mind build for numbers and reports...

I''m conflicted, any words of wisdom to help steer me in either direction?

 

[Regular Guy]

Consider investing in an ASET, and developing trust in your own preferences. First, you''d want to confirm for yourself the ASET optimizers match with the ones you like. If that pattern ensues, there''s be a rationale to target AGS options, wherever they are. If you have a Jareds local, they supposedly carry some AGS0 options. Actually, Dimend should, too, inasmuch as they''re also an Infinity Dealer, so you should be able to do one stop shopping, at least for visual testing, right there, I''d think.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/21/2009 1:25:47 AM
Author:ericg
So I've done the research here on PS, visited some downtown Chicago jewelers like Dimend Scassi, M Martin & Co, and Windy City Diamonds to look at princess stones just under one carat. Now I'm stuck deciding between online jewelers (like Good Old Gold) who post multiple 3rd party reports on cut and light performance which give me piece of mind, or going with a local reputable jeweler like M Martin who hand selects stones for best of cut without such reports, just GIA...

Being an engineer, I initially liked all the numbers and tools. I asked at M Martin & Co about evaluations like ASET, Sarin, AGS0, etc., and he talked about a trade show where a guy put an ugly stone in one, and the machine gave it an excellent grading. I understand that of course those tools have some value, but is he right that they can't really be trusted? (Maybe even just tools friendly to jewelers wanting to push stones) It made sense to me that that's why the GIA for example doesn't use such tools in grading... Is that thinking right?

It seems that princess cuts are a difficult stone to give absolute advice on, so even if I post all the specs here that won't truly help. At M Martin I was shown the differences between a great princess cut and a poor/common one. I can notice big differences, but I'm afraid I can't tell the difference between an ideal cut princess and just a very good cut princess he'd show me.
It seems like it's all about the eyes, and that's why I like all the multiple reports at GOG or knowing it's a AGS0 ideal princesses. But maybe I need to just trust my own eyes to get it 'good enough' in-person and trust the judgment of M Martin & Co (family business for 60+ years) whom other people have and been satisfied by looking at reviews. I guess it's just hard for me to get over the barrier of trusting the jeweler's judgment of what's a good stone and good price for it beyond my amateur-trained eyes with a mind build for numbers and reports...

I'm conflicted, any words of wisdom to help steer me in either direction?

With ASET or Idealscope, as they represent actual images of the diamond, and as long as you know how to interpret ASET particularly then false positive opinions aren't likely as the images will reveal any leakage or less effective light return. In fact, you may be interested to know AGS labs who are considered the gold standard for cut grading use ASET - http://www.agslab.com/ags_grading_system_glossary.php

As for purchase info, Ira offers good advice you could use.

 

[ericg]

Oh, thanks for correcting me that the AGS does use the ASET in grading, guess I missed that.

My reservation with using the ASET myself is that I won''t be able to discern between an excellent and very good. That kinda makes me want to put faith in an AGS0 since they''ve already done that evaluation...
Is it possible/common for an appraiser to use an ASET for you?

The guy at M Martin had some reservations with me preferring AGS b/c (other than that there are less AGSs out there) he says that over the years he saw many AGS “zero” cuts that he felt were lacking in beauty and brilliance, and often showed heavy extinction areas. He also says that AGS has now refined their original cut grading system, that caused some consumers stones to drop by three grades. Basically saying that no one set of parameters works with every stone, and that the final determination of the cut quality should be determined by the gemologist. Makes sense, but isn''t the fact that AGS evaluates cut on princesses a great guide in my situation?

I was initially worried about the price being much higher for an AGS0 (by Infinity for example), but the jump to get an AGS0 versus the jeweler/gemologist determined "great-cut" GIA doesn''t seem that big, about 10% increase in my initial research...
But then again maybe the GIA is a deal being just as, or even more brilliant. I guess figuring all this out is part of the game

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/21/2009 12:34:41 PM
Author: ericg
Oh, thanks for correcting me that the AGS does use the ASET in grading, guess I missed that.

My reservation with using the ASET myself is that I won't be able to discern between an excellent and very good. That kinda makes me want to put faith in an AGS0 since they've already done that evaluation...
Is it possible/common for an appraiser to use an ASET for you?

The guy at M Martin had some reservations with me preferring AGS b/c (other than that there are less AGSs out there) he says that over the years he saw many AGS “zero” cuts that he felt were lacking in beauty and brilliance, and often showed heavy extinction areas. He also says that AGS has now refined their original cut grading system, that caused some consumers stones to drop by three grades. Basically saying that no one set of parameters works with every stone, and that the final determination of the cut quality should be determined by the gemologist. Makes sense, but isn't the fact that AGS evaluates cut on princesses a great guide in my situation?

I was initially worried about the price being much higher for an AGS0 (by Infinity for example), but the jump to get an AGS0 versus the jeweler/gemologist determined 'great-cut' GIA doesn't seem that big, about 10% increase in my initial research...
But then again maybe the GIA is a deal being just as, or even more brilliant. I guess figuring all this out is part of the game

An AGS0 Princess can narrow the field to find well cut diamonds, assuming of course that the diamond in question appeals to you as the most important judge of beauty is the purchaser. Your jeweller is correct in saying no one set of parameters work for every diamond, so really the best you can do is to carefully evaluate any diamond as best you can by comparing diamonds of known cut quality so you know how a well cut diamond should look and behave, then using a mix of available tools, techniques, appraiser or other expert info and of course your own eyes to choose.

If you check out this tool which lists appraisers then you can find one in your area, it should say whether the appraiser is skilled in evaluating cut quality, plus it could say what tools they use such as ASET near their services offered etc.

https://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx