Buyer Beware... If you're non-American, think twice before purchasing from the US

[ItsMainelyYou]

Oh, and the market lost 2 trillion in value as he was speaking. It took about 20 minutes. Tomorrow will be historic, keep an eye and ear out.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Oh, and the market lost 2 trillion in value as he was speaking. It took about 20 minutes. Tomorrow will be historic, keep an eye and ear out.

Capitalism is a highly rational system. It does not react well to irrational behavior or belligerence with no purpose that can be understood in rational economic terms.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

Capitalism is a highly rational system. It does not react well to irrational behavior or belligerence with no purpose that can be understood in rational economic terms.

Big eye roll here... no purpose?

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Big eye roll here... no purpose?

Oh, I'm sure there is a purpose. Just not one that makes sense considering the impacts on both the domestic economy and the world economy. If the markets could understand the purpose, and thought it made sense, they would not be freaking out.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I just glanced at this thread because I saw on the side bar of another page (SMTB) that Bryan had posted. I read from the end and several posts back and I then had to scroll up to see what sub-forum this was on!!!!

Oh, and the market lost 2 trillion in value as he was speaking. It took about 20 minutes. Tomorrow will be historic, keep an eye and ear out.

You don't mean today, do you? I saw a news headline regarding tariffs earlier today and checked the market then and again after the market closed, and the S&P 500 was up .67% and the DJ Total US Market Index was up .80%. So I assume you were speaking of the end of last week when I think the market was down about 2% around Friday?

I think a thread on actual imposed tariffs and the effect on pricing of imported diamonds and jewelry would be very interesting, though, without the political commentary. I am glad I have pretty much all of the VCA I intend to buy!

 

[Un_Petit_Rayon_de_Soleil]

* For the record. I'm not leaving.
I'm just not going to put the effort clarifying or debating into political discussions.


Unfortunately, we're past that point. Now we have to learn to endure what's inevitably coming. The proof is in the pudding.

May the odds be ever in your favor.
~Effie Trincket

Happy 'Liberation' day.

I am very happy that you are not leaving. Who else will give me the same amazing responses that I look forward to every time I post. You are definitely a huge asset to this forum. I came out of hiding to tell you that.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

That is futures as of 6:30 ish
Dow futures were down 1064 points or 2.5%
S&P down 211 points or 3.7%
NASDAQ down 908points or 4.06%
This was what was put out right after markets closed for today.
Tomorrow is the big day.

We'll need economists to sound off on this. Not really my purview.

Our gov't has requested that no other country retaliate against our tariffs.


I do wonder how the penguins will respond from the islands with no population.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

That is futures as of 6:30 ish
Dow futures were down 1064 points or 2.5%
S&P down 211 points or 3.7%
NASDAQ down 908points or 4.06%
This was what was put out right after markets close for today.
Tomorrow is the big day.

We'll need economists to sound off on this. Not really my purview.

Our gov't has requested that no other country retaliate against our tariffs.

I do wonder how the penguins will respond from the islands with no population.

"I do wonder how the penguins will respond from the islands with no population."

Dark humor is still humor. Thanks for the chuckle.

 

[Ella]

Folks, stop linking articles primarily about politicians. Have a discussion about the policies but that's where it ends.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Is this to mean that if you own or are paying for your home or rent, health insurance and food, you are rich and have inherited your money and it must be distributed? I wonder how many realize that even the uber wealthy cannot support the throngs hanging on the public pig. If this country was so incapable of "the poor" being supported why were millions of people allowed over the border to inundate the services that were already stretched.

I keep hearing about the "rich" causing all the problems. If you robbed the "rich" of every dollar they had it wouldn't begin to pay for our welfare country and the nations it helps to support. But incentive for any type of work would be dead.

Now what?

Of course not. But the middle class is the overwhelming supporter of themselves, the rich, and the poor... as is evidenced by our tax contributions and back-breaking labor. The rich have the lowest payroll tax rates, benefit from skewed deductions, loopholes, and rate preferences (they often pay little to nothing on capital gains/dividends). Their income is passive. Some of the largest and most profitable corporations pay zero in federal taxes. But it trickles down, right? No, the rich continue to compound their wealth. It's been proven time and time again that they invest in themselves, not the economy.

The middle class is collapsing, so, yes, fewer and fewer people can afford to pay for their mortgage/rent, health insurance, food, necessities, etc. Have you not noticed? Look around... most of the younger generations are barely coasting on their parents' fumes from a by-gone era. And I don't want to hear it's because they're unmotivated. Work with them sometime, and see how motivated they are. They can't get ahead. Every generation to follow is going to sink deeper into this swamp if we continue on this same trajectory of widening the wealth gap. It's going to be golden toilet seats and an entire welfare state.

A shoe salesman back in 1960... the good ol' days, right... could support a non-working wife, 3 kids, own a home and a Cadillac, pay for college, go on vacations to the Grand Canyon. Why? Because the federal tax rate on income in the nation’s top tax bracket consistently hovered around 90%. We had union-backed lawmakers who instituted programs which helped average families with everything from making mortgages affordable to expanding access to higher education. CEOs made about 20x more than the average worker. Now they make 400% as much. We invested in the middle class and they prospered. The redistribution of wealth began in the 80's... under a certain individual's guard. The financial industry was deregulated(!), and there was a steep decline in union strength. The Tax Reform Act of 1986 is often thought to be the beginning of our sad slide into true income inequality. It included unprecedented tax cuts for the wealthy.

So, you asked "now what?" We establish a progressive estate tax on multi-millionaire and billionaire inheritances. We end tax breaks on capital gains/dividends for the top 1%. We tax Wall Street speculators. To say none of those actions would help, but cutting a single mom's food stamps would, is just plain silly (and, frankly, cruel).

I could write a book (I sort of did) on my reasons for backing these policies, and you and I could go around and around indefinitely on this topic. I don't think we're going to have a meeting of the minds, so this is time and energy I'm sure neither of us has to give. But I do think most of us come here for a bit of levity from the day's stressors and responsibilities. I don't want to drag the board down with politics. So let's agree to disagree.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I can put it in terms that relate directly to this discussion, and forum
The diamond business.
When I started in 1976, I was a trainee.
I made $95 a week, before taxes.
Within a year I was up to $150.
Two years $210.
There was a group of us. Young trainees- at the Harry Winston School.
The old folks down on the main floor were making probably $400 a week.
At the time,. $50k was a very nice salary.
Anyway, as the years went by, the majority of us either became solid middle class, or much better. Through the '90's into the early 2000's many of us worked for big companies- people had pensions.
Some got really lucky or smart enough to open businesses- some got truly wealthy.

Today the industry is dominated by oligarchs. They have no interest in pensions.
Or hiring young people to climb the ladder. The workers start at the bottom and work their way up to the top of the bottom. No ones getting vaulted into the middle class.
As has been so deftly explained- the tax structure and other changes since the 1970's has encouraged this massive inequity.
The diamond business has plenty of other problems- these tariffs are just going to hurt the fewer and fewer small diamond and jewelry businesses
I would not want my kids to go into this business.....not that I have any idea what the world will look like in 5 years.....how the heck do you prepare teenagers for what is coming down the pike???

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Folks, stop linking articles primarily about politicians. Have a discussion about the policies but that's where it ends.

Ella, I know it is a delicate job to keep a thread like this from spinning out of control. I know you see it as a valuable discussion that the community wants to engage in, and you are trying your best to keep it going. Thank you.

I just want to understand how linking to breaking news that is highly relevant to the discussion is a violation. Just because the politician who is making the news is mentioned by name in the article? As you said in an earlier post, we all know who is in power and making these decisions. Is it better to copy and paste from the article and redact his name?

 

[Ella]

Ella, I know it is a delicate job to keep a thread like this from spinning out of control. I know you see it as a valuable discussion that the community wants to engage in, and you are trying your best to keep it going. Thank you.

I just want to understand how linking to breaking news that is highly relevant to the discussion is a violation. Just because the politician who is making the news is mentioned by name in the article? As you said in an earlier post, we all know who is in power and making these decisions. Is it better to copy and paste from the article and redact his name?

Find articles that aren’t highly politicized. I’ve been monitoring this thread for the better part of 14 hours today, this is not something that we need to be doing but are trying to keep this forum open for conversation. We cannot keep up this level of monitoring and yet no one will follow the rules.

The moment names get mentioned things go crazier and we are not able to spend the time to monitor that. That is why we have a hard rule, because it gets out of control very quickly.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I can put it in terms that relate directly to this discussion, and forum
The diamond business.
When I started in 1976, I was a trainee.
I made $95 a week, before taxes.
Within a year I was up to $150.
Two years $210.
There was a group of us. Young trainees- at the Harry Winston School.
The old folks down on the main floor were making probably $400 a week.
At the time,. $50k was a very nice salary.
Anyway, as the years went by, the majority of us either became solid middle class, or much better. Through the '90's into the early 2000's many of us worked for big companies- people had pensions.
Some got really lucky or smart enough to open businesses- some got truly wealthy.

Today the industry is dominated by oligarchs. They have no interest in pensions.
Or hiring young people to climb the ladder. The workers start at the bottom and work their way up to the top of the bottom. No ones getting vaulted into the middle class.
As has been so deftly explained- the tax structure and other changes since the 1970's has encouraged this massive inequity.
The diamond business has plenty of other problems- these tariffs are just going to hurt the fewer and fewer small diamond and jewelry businesses
I would not want my kids to go into this business.....not that I have any idea what the world will look like in 5 years.....how the heck do you prepare teenagers for what is coming down the pike???

David, I appreciate you talking about the jewelry business. I have been wondering how the popularity of lab diamonds is affecting jewelers since there must be much less profit in those especially since prices have so drastically declined. Most young people can't afford much in natural diamonds (although those also appear to be declining in price), and they see people on social media are showing off these elaborate rings, and they are likely all lab. Then if tariffs are added to all the imported jewelry and diamonds and the price of gold stays extremely high, I really do fear for the jewelers as fewer people can justify buying luxury items at today's prices.

I think the advent of 401ks is what ended most pensions (other than government type jobs). It was good for the people who had no pensions, but many or most businesses which offered pensions gradually ended them in favor of 401ks.

 

[Rubygirl13]

Is there a list of Canadian sellers somewhere? I want to buy a ring, but only if it’s being shipped within my country. Pre loved is fine too.

 

[missy]

Medications are exempt from the Tariffs..for now

There are still threats to potential big tariffs on meds

"
Major pharmaceutical companies are lobbying for exemptions, arguing that the tariffs would harm patients and discourage investment in research and development.

"


"
Many drugmakers have been taking steps to at least assess potential cost increases from tariffs. Companies have suggested they could rebalance their manufacturing networks, explore non-European API sources, pursue expansions in the U.S. and enlist contract manufacturers or other alternative production solutions, the T.D. Cowen team said in its report.
"

"
In late February, Eli Lilly said it would invest $27 billion to build four new production facilities in the U.S., while Johnson & Johnson said in March that it plans to spend $55 billion in the U.S. over the next four years.

These large-scale projects take time, so companies aren’t likely to downsize overseas plants anytime soon. But with the growing risk of changes to tariffs and the tax code, companies are taking reshoring seriously—especially for newer, high-margin products. The upshot is that profitability will be affected either way: Overseas goods may incur tariffs, while domestic manufacturing faces higher labor costs.

Elsewhere, Pfizer’s CEO, Albert Bourla, Ph.D., said early last month that his company’s manufacturing network is already well positioned in the U.S., though the New York drugmaker could bring additional production resources in from overseas if the situation demands.
"

 

[freddyboston]

Is there a list of Canadian sellers somewhere? I want to buy a ring, but only if it’s being shipped within my country. Pre loved is fine too.

Diamonds de Canada in Yellowknife cuts and polishes diamonds from the NT Mines...they are doing some fun things with Gahcho Kué Fluorescent 2A's which they sell through their lands collection..

Fluorescent Diamond by LANDS Natural Diamonds That Glow Gahcho Kué

Every LANDS Spirit Collection gem is a 500 million year old natural fluorescent diamond that glows in the dark from Gahcho Kué. Click to watch them light up.

www.landscollection.com

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

This is real, right? If so, it's really helpful. I don't necessarily understand everything about tarriffs, but this *looks to me* like we (the US) are starting to levy tariffs on places where we didn't have them before, but that those places already had levied them on goods from the US. So honestly this seems kind of like common sense to me. Am I missing something?

You're supposed to ignore these facts...

It will take too long to answer all the posts but I appreciate the conversation. When my husband was making the same money as you were Rock, it was a struggle with a baby on the way. He changed jobs but we continued to save, had only one vehicle, no vacationing, we never ate in restaurants with our children before they were in their late teens and we, ourselves, seldom ate out. One telephone in the house, no cable or internet bills, we made most repairs that were within our scope, have always done our own painting, had a garden, I canned our food, no dryer for our clothes for four years with 2 babies in the mix. Our night's out entertainment when we did go out on the weekend was card playing with family or friends and the occasional wedding. Babysitters were seldom hired. I sewed most of my clothes and many of our children's. (No pants, I didn't like putting in flys..) I've had one manicure and one massage in my long life which were gifts. We didn't have gym memberships or patronize Starbucks and affording a college education was out of the question. Few shoes were in the closet. We didn't smoke and were never interested in pot. I could go on even more but the bottom line is it took much practical sacrifice to get on our feet.

Now it is expected that without any innovation, hard work or sacrifice, everyone should have all the luxuries of life with little effort. Could tax loopholes be closed? Absolutely but our elected officials on BOTH sides of the aisles grease their palms and those of certain constituents by creating laws that provide the largess in exchange for those precious votes.

Is there going to be pain as work is done to get the USA back in the game by provided our own manufacturing and production. Yes. Should we dial back to where we were 6 months ago? If you insist, but prepare for the gnashing of teeth as we slide under. The continuing deficit created by problems of waste, lack of fair trade, fraud and fatted government hiring is drowning this country faster than most realize. The difficulties we see today will be nothing in five to ten years down the road if corrections aren't made.

 

[Rockdiamond]

You're supposed to ignore these facts...

The fact is that WE have started a trade war. The “facts” being used to justify this war are not facts at all.
We do not have a crisis of Fentanyl coming over our northern border.
Charts that were used during the announcement of our starting this war were either incredibly misleading or purposefully false.
Virtually EVERY economic expert has warned of the dangers of recession- or even a worldwide depression.
Facts.
We now don’t have to wait years for the bad stuff to happen.
Look at your 401k.
American products are being shunned all over the world.
And even if we suddenly said … oops sorry! The damage is done. We will never be trustworthy again in my lifetime.
No tariffs on Russia!!! Yipee. I wonder why???

 

[Rockdiamond]

Is there a list of Canadian sellers somewhere? I want to buy a ring, but only if it’s being shipped within my country. Pre loved is fine too.

I’m quite sure that most of us don’t blame you one little bit… And wouldn’t it be great if the only problems with these tariffs were with diamonds and jewelry. People all over the world are thinking like you about every sort of product made in America

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

Oh, I'm sure there is a purpose. Just not one that makes sense considering the impacts on both the domestic economy and the world economy. If the markets could understand the purpose, and thought it made sense, they would not be freaking out.

Do you think that perhaps all the hysterical dialog disguises the sense of it all? I wonder what would happen if the citizens of the USA in one voice would back the premise of equal trade and whether the countries with the upper trade hand would reconsider?

The French president just put out a statement that our President's diagnosis of the trade problem was correct. However, our President shouldn't use tariffs to fix it. Huh? Why not agree to the balance of equal trade and, therefore, eliminate the tariffs immediately!! Political posturing to appease his people comes to mind. Rather than a trade correction, he's bragging on how they will install even more tariffs rather than quickly fix the problem.

Can you imagine discussions with each of these separate nations for trade parity and the time lost with no incentive for them to change their policies?

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

The fact is that WE have started a trade war. The “facts” being used to justify this war are not facts at all.
We do not have a crisis of Fentanyl coming over our northern border.
Charts that were used during the announcement of our starting this war were either incredibly misleading or purposefully false.
Virtually EVERY economic expert has warned of the dangers of recession- or even a worldwide depression.
Facts.
We now don’t have to wait years for the bad stuff to happen.
Look at your 401k.
American products are being shunned all over the world.
And even if we suddenly said … oops sorry! The damage is done. We will never be trustworthy again in my lifetime.
No tariffs on Russia!!! Yipee. I wonder why???

I will refer you to post #231

 

[Rockdiamond]

I can’t find any statement by the French president.
It seems like people who approve of these actions are convinced that we’ve been getting ripped off for years. If that’s the case, why are we the richest nation in the world?
Of course, all that’s gonna change now

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

The fact is that WE have started a trade war. The “facts” being used to justify this war are not facts at all.
We do not have a crisis of Fentanyl coming over our northern border.
Charts that were used during the announcement of our starting this war were either incredibly misleading or purposefully false.
Virtually EVERY economic expert has warned of the dangers of recession- or even a worldwide depression.
Facts.
We now don’t have to wait years for the bad stuff to happen.
Look at your 401k.
American products are being shunned all over the world.
And even if we suddenly said … oops sorry! The damage is done. We will never be trustworthy again in my lifetime.
No tariffs on Russia!!! Yipee. I wonder why???

ONE illegal fentanyl pill coming across the Canadian border is one too many. Why wouldn't you want the best protection from illegal drugs coming in from that country? It dangerous for Canada also and equipment was sent to them to help in the battle. We battle it daily in the USA but as much eradication that we can muster is the a good thing.

 

[Begonia]

The fact is that WE have started a trade war. The “facts” being used to justify this war are not facts at all.
We do not have a crisis of Fentanyl coming over our northern border.
Charts that were used during the announcement of our starting this war were either incredibly misleading or purposefully false.
Virtually EVERY economic expert has warned of the dangers of recession- or even a worldwide depression.
Facts.
We now don’t have to wait years for the bad stuff to happen.
Look at your 401k.
American products are being shunned all over the world.
And even if we suddenly said … oops sorry! The damage is done. We will never be trustworthy again in my lifetime.
No tariffs on Russia!!! Yipee. I wonder why???

Sadly, this is all too true. Canada is aggressively pursuing new trading partners and our new Prime Ministers first trip as PM was to renew relationships with our founding fathers: England, France and our First Nations people, not to mention our relationship with Mexico and the rest of Europe. Not the US, as has been customary for generations. I quoted him...

"The old relationship we had with the US based on a deepening integration of our economies and tight military cooperation, is over".

What prompted this response from Canada is not visionary, not protectionist. It's dangerous.

 

[Rockdiamond]

ONE illegal fentanyl pill coming across the Canadian border is one too many. Why wouldn't you want the best protection from illegal drugs coming in from that country? It dangerous for Canada also and equipment was sent to them to help in the battle. We battle it daily in the USA but as much eradication that we can muster is the a good thing.

It’s called distraction. Get people to buy into a false threat…then you can take all kinds of violent actions.
One fentanyl pill came from Toronto. Let’s bomb them!
But the far bigger problem is demand here. Let’s not look at that- and instead falsely blame Canada!
You must see what’s happening- we are now pariahs in the worlds eyes. How is this going to help with the drug problem. As we slip into recession drug problems going to get worse. And the policies being enacted are stripping away services like drug treatment programs.
It really feel like so many of our citizens have been lied to and taken the bait hook line and sinker.
So sad. Scary.

 

[Bonfire]

Do you think that perhaps all the hysterical dialog disguises the sense of it all?

Perhaps you don’t have investments or a 401K.
Trading in the first 50 days of this administration is lower than it’s been since the 1950’s.
Starting a global trade war is idiocy.
Even domestic prices will go up, retailers will blame it on tariffs. Globally we are a pariah. There are no winners in this.

The deficit will continue to increase like it always does however.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

I can’t find any statement by the French president.
It seems like people who approve of these actions are convinced that we’ve been getting ripped off for years. If that’s the case, why are we the richest nation in the world?
Of course, all that’s gonna change now

The statement was just released a short time ago.

You love the terminology "ripped off", I prefer have suffered from unequal trade agreements. Oh, we're filthy rich, keep telling that fable. The USA is like so many households, it's all on paper. In notes, loans, etc. But heaven forbid the USA live responsibly and straighten up the debt to a very low level.

 

[Bonfire]

It really feel like so many of our citizens have been lied to and taken the bait hook line and sinker.

This

 

[lala646]

Medications are exempt from the Tariffs..for now

There are still threats to potential big tariffs on meds

"
Major pharmaceutical companies are lobbying for exemptions, arguing that the tariffs would harm patients and discourage investment in research and development.

"


"
Many drugmakers have been taking steps to at least assess potential cost increases from tariffs. Companies have suggested they could rebalance their manufacturing networks, explore non-European API sources, pursue expansions in the U.S. and enlist contract manufacturers or other alternative production solutions, the T.D. Cowen team said in its report.
"

"
In late February, Eli Lilly said it would invest $27 billion to build four new production facilities in the U.S., while Johnson & Johnson said in March that it plans to spend $55 billion in the U.S. over the next four years.

These large-scale projects take time, so companies aren’t likely to downsize overseas plants anytime soon. But with the growing risk of changes to tariffs and the tax code, companies are taking reshoring seriously—especially for newer, high-margin products. The upshot is that profitability will be affected either way: Overseas goods may incur tariffs, while domestic manufacturing faces higher labor costs.

Elsewhere, Pfizer’s CEO, Albert Bourla, Ph.D., said early last month that his company’s manufacturing network is already well positioned in the U.S., though the New York drugmaker could bring additional production resources in from overseas if the situation demands.
"

Thank you for sharing that. The majority of the medications I'm on aren't manufactured in the US, and I was really wondering how this would impact folks with budgets much tighter than mine. I hope lawmakers continue to take a reasonable position on this, even if none of their other positions are.