Buying diamonds on the internet - Please help

[Jafnaste]

Hello all,

I came across this wonderful forum when doing my search. Yep you guessed it I''m in the market for an engagement ring and like others have done a fair bit of research when it comes to diamond buying. Having looked through endless brochures, trekking to diamond stores etc one thing I''m not entirely convinced upon is buying diamonds online. But the thing that lures me to buying diamonds online is the massive price difference as compared to retail!!!!

I came across this website : http://www.dejoria.co.uk and it looks authentic enough. But the little voice in my head is telling me to exercise extreme caution. Am I just being too paranoid? Has anyone ever used the above site to purchase diamonds? How can you tell if a website like above is the real deal and won''t rip you off by sending out below par diamonds rejected by high end retailers or not send anything out at all?

I look forward to the upcoming advice by the learned members on this site.

Thank you in advance

(PS. to the mods: apologies if this topic is in the wrong forum section I didn''t know where else to post it)

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/8/2009 7:05:53 AM
Author:Jafnaste
Hello all,

I came across this wonderful forum when doing my search. Yep you guessed it I'm in the market for an engagement ring and like others have done a fair bit of research when it comes to diamond buying. Having looked through endless brochures, trekking to diamond stores etc one thing I'm not entirely convinced upon is buying diamonds online. But the thing that lures me to buying diamonds online is the massive price difference as compared to retail!!!!

I came across this website : http://www.dejoria.co.uk and it looks authentic enough. But the little voice in my head is telling me to exercise extreme caution. Am I just being too paranoid? Has anyone ever used the above site to purchase diamonds? How can you tell if a website like above is the real deal and won't rip you off by sending out below par diamonds rejected by high end retailers or not send anything out at all?

I look forward to the upcoming advice by the learned members on this site.

Thank you in advance

(PS. to the mods: apologies if this topic is in the wrong forum section I didn't know where else to post it)

Welcome!

I have heard of this company owned by Paul Mitchell who is mainly known for higher end hair products, however I don't know anything about this diamond company's reputation - however I don't think you need to worry about any dishonesty.

If you want a contact in the UK, check out www.bestdiamonds.co.uk and speak to Dr Indira Marchant, Indira posts here and she is a super lady and also passionate about diamonds.

If you like, give us some info and budget concerning what you are looking for and maybe we could help. Do you prefer to buy from a store in the UK, or had you considered buying online in the UK or US?

 

[Gayletmom]

Hello, Jafnaste, and welcome to PS! Have you tried searching for that company using the search function on the forum? I find it very useful and efficient. Good luck to you!

 

[Jafnaste]

Hi guys

Thanks for the warm welcome and the speedy responses.

Lorelei. I am basically looking for a 0.5 carat diamond, colour E and VVS. Preferably brilliant round or princess cut. My budget is around £1500-£2000. In terms of the ring I''m looking for 18k white gold. In terms of the setting I''m looking for a claw setting that will expose the diamond (i.e. as in you can see the diamond). Now I know if I were to go to a high street looking for a diamond with my budget I''d be hard pressed to find anything. But I came across diamond rings on dejoria that are within my budget.

The only thing that I naturally am concerned about is whether the diamonds are as good as they say they are or whether I''m being sold reject diamonds. As I reside in the UK I would really like to concentrate on purchasing my diamond in the UK.

Any help with my search would be most appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/8/2009 11:06:13 AM
Author: Jafnaste
Hi guys

Thanks for the warm welcome and the speedy responses.

Lorelei. I am basically looking for a 0.5 carat diamond, colour E and VVS. Preferably brilliant round or princess cut. My budget is around £1500-£2000. In terms of the ring I'm looking for 18k white gold. In terms of the setting I'm looking for a claw setting that will expose the diamond (i.e. as in you can see the diamond). Now I know if I were to go to a high street looking for a diamond with my budget I'd be hard pressed to find anything. But I came across diamond rings on dejoria that are within my budget.

The only thing that I naturally am concerned about is whether the diamonds are as good as they say they are or whether I'm being sold reject diamonds. As I reside in the UK I would really like to concentrate on purchasing my diamond in the UK.

Any help with my search would be most appreciated.

Thanks.

Glad to help!

I have no experience with the vendor or have heard anything about them really, you could always try a Google search to read up on others' experiences with them. Also you could contact Indira to see what she can come up with for you. If you are new to this, it is cut which gives a diamond its beauty, so that is an important factor to consider - more than I can adequately cover in a post, so here is the tutorial which has tons of good basic info in it.

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/

With the cut also you have choices, for either round or Princess you could go for a branded cut which is often also an ASG0 Ideal cut grade ( the only meaningful use of the term ideal pertains to AGS labs AGS0 cut grade). Such diamonds are considered to be of known cut quality, Indira sells Crafted By Infinity hearts and arrows for round and Infinity Princess. So that is an option.

Alternatively you can consider GIA graded diamonds, this applies to rounds only as GIA do not grade Princess for cut at this time. If you work with a trusted vendor who has the diamonds in house, an expert eye plus images which help you judge cut quality such as ASET and Idealscope, then you can find the best cut GIA rounds and Princess. GIA's highest cut grade is Excellent but this grade can allow less desirable cut combos to get the Ex cut grade, so you need to choose with care out of these. Round diamonds have a range of proportions and the resulting numbers which can give you a reasonable idea of cut quality, however Princess are a different kettle of fish and really you need images to help judge the cut where possible.

Lastly, unless you specifically prefer E VVS you could lower both colour and clarity a bit without visual sacrifice to F or G and VS clarity if you wish, but this of course is personal preference so if you prefer E VVS ignore that!

 

[Jafnaste]

I''m posting the GIA specs on few couple diamonds I saw - all are around the £2000 mark. Are any of these diamonds any good?

diamond grading system used today.

1) DIAMOND DOSSIER

SHAPE ROUND
CARAT 0.50
COLOUR E
CLARITY VVS1
CUT GRADE G

GRADING INFORMATION
DEPTH 59.3%
TABLE 63%
CULET V
POLISH G
SYMMETRY G
FLUORESCENCE M
MEASUREMENTS 5.25-5.31x3.13
GIRDLE VTN-TN



2) DIAMOND DOSSIER
SHAPE ROUND
CARAT 0.50
COLOUR E
CLARITY VVS1
CUT GRADE VG

GRADING INFORMATION
DEPTH 63.5%
TABLE 56%
CULET N
POLISH EX
SYMMETRY EX
FLUORESCENCE N
MEASUREMENTS 5.02-5.06x3.20
GIRDLE M-STK

3) DIAMOND DOSSIER
SHAPE ROUND
CARAT 0.50
COLOUR E
CLARITY VVS1
CUT GRADE EX

GRADING INFORMATION
DEPTH 61.3%
TABLE 59%
CULET N
POLISH VG
SYMMETRY VG
FLUORESCENCE N
MEASUREMENTS 5.09-5.12x3.13
GIRDLE TN

4) diamond grading system used today.
DIAMOND DOSSIER
SHAPE ROUND
CARAT 0.50
COLOUR E
CLARITY VVS1
CUT GRADE EX

GRADING INFORMATION
DEPTH 61.9%
TABLE 59%
CULET N
POLISH EX
SYMMETRY EX
FLUORESCENCE N
MEASUREMENTS 5.07-5.11x3.15
GIRDLE M-STK

 

[Lorelei]

The last two might be ok, the tables are a little larger than many we see here, but we really need the crown and pavilion angles to get any meaningful information on how well any diamond is cut. You might be able to request that info from the vendor.

The first diamond is shallow depthed with a large table so I would pass on that one. The second is too deep IMO. The third and fourth we need the angles. To help you further, here are some numbers you can use as a guide to help you find a well cut round diamond.

depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!.

And from expert John Pollard.

"As the above implies, configurations depend on each other. A little give here can still work with a little take there.

With that said, here's a "Cliff's Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.

GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35)."

 

[Jafnaste]

Wow thanks for all the great info. Unfortunately the website doesn''t provide the crown and pavilion angles. I''ll request them from the manufacturer and see if they provide it. I''ll get in touch with Dr Indira. Any other people you recommend I should talk to?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/8/2009 11:34:16 AM
Author: Jafnaste
Wow thanks for all the great info. Unfortunately the website doesn''t provide the crown and pavilion angles. I''ll request them from the manufacturer and see if they provide it. I''ll get in touch with Dr Indira. Any other people you recommend I should talk to?

You are very welcome!

I can''t think of anyone else here off the top of my head, but we do have some other UK PSers who might have some recommendations for you.

 

[swingirl]

The website you are considering has a rather unusual way of working. After you pick out the setting, metal, ring size you finally get to pick the diamond. Their pricing is all inclusive (setting, stone, shipping, handling) so it's very difficult to see what everything costs. Personally I prefer things broken down and I would want to start with the stone first, since that usually takes the biggest chunk of the budget. I did see they carry GIA stones and show the GIA certificate so that's a plus, especially if they include the crown and pavilion angles (the one I looked at did). No photos of the stones, though.

There have been some UK PSer that bought over the internet from US vendors. Hopefully they will chime in with their experiences.

Here are some stones that come close to your specs.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4647/
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4480/

 

[oldmancoyote]

Date: 1/8/2009 7:05:53 AM
Author:Jafnaste
Hello all,

I came across this wonderful forum when doing my search. Yep you guessed it I'm in the market for an engagement ring and like others have done a fair bit of research when it comes to diamond buying. Having looked through endless brochures, trekking to diamond stores etc one thing I'm not entirely convinced upon is buying diamonds online. But the thing that lures me to buying diamonds online is the massive price difference as compared to retail!!!!

If you get to this point, then why not extend things a little and allow yourself to shop from "good" online vendors no matter where they are located? I haven't found any good ones in the UK, so I purchased from the US. Couriers are cheap and fast; HMRC is a pain in the neck, but they are fair and fast too, and will refund VAT and duties reasonably quickly if you need to return the item - just keep all the paperwork.

I came across this website : http://www.dejoria.co.uk and it looks authentic enough. But the little voice in my head is telling me to exercise extreme caution. Am I just being too paranoid?

No. But there are ways to protect yourself.

Has anyone ever used the above site to purchase diamonds? How can you tell if a website like above is the real deal and won't rip you off by sending out below par diamonds rejected by high end retailers or not send anything out at all?

Checking the vendor's reputation on forums and through google is a good thing. Regardless, there are a few things you can do to protect yourself:

1. Use an indipendent appraiser/gemmological expert to verify that what you are sent is what you paid for. If you live in London, I can recommend Eric Emms (www.ericemms.com) in Hatton Gardens. Very knowledgeable and approachable.

2. Use a credit card to pay. This way you have recourse against two parties (the vendor and the c/c company) should the goods not arrive or not be as described.

3. You are protected by the Distance Selling Regulations 2000, which allow for a cooling period of 7 working days in any case, indipendent of what the vendor may say, as long as the vendor is based in the EU and the sale is not through an auction. Get yourself organised to get the item appraised during that timespan.

I look forward to the upcoming advice by the learned members on this site.

Thank you in advance

(PS. to the mods: apologies if this topic is in the wrong forum section I didn't know where else to post it)

Good luck!

ETA: is there any particular reason why you look at very high clarity stones?

 

[Jafnaste]

Ahh thanks guys. The main reason why i have not looked at US on line retailers is because I don''t know anything about the legalities/ procedures of buying a diamond from the US. Any sites or advice would be most appreciative.

Secondly to oldmancoyote the reason why I''m going for high clarity stones is that my take on buying a diamond is that the higher the clarity the better the stone. Am I way off the mark here?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/9/2009 4:59:59 AM
Author: Jafnaste
Ahh thanks guys. The main reason why i have not looked at US on line retailers is because I don't know anything about the legalities/ procedures of buying a diamond from the US. Any sites or advice would be most appreciative.

Secondly to oldmancoyote the reason why I'm going for high clarity stones is that my take on buying a diamond is that the higher the clarity the better the stone. Am I way off the mark here?

It is a reasonably straightforward procedure buying from the US, I believe you need to pay 15% VAT and 2.5% import duty, so factor that into your budget, some of the PS vendors will be able to advise.

If you refer to the ' better the stone' as beauty and sparkle, then this is cut quality which provides that, not clarity. Clarity refers to the level of inclusions or lack of in a diamond, you can have a D colour IF clarity which if poorly cut will look like a chunk of glass, you need a great cut to bring out the beauty and life in a diamond. So clarity can be down to personal preference and budget, as long as the diamond is eyeclean, clarity doesn't have any bearing on beauty.

Further reading - http://diamonds.pricescope.com/clarity.asp

Here are the details for some PS vendors.

www.goodoldgold.com

www.winkjones.com

www.whiteflash.com

www.jamesallen.com

www.niceice.com

www.exceldiamonds.com

 

[oldmancoyote]

Date: 1/9/2009 4:59:59 AM
Author: Jafnaste
Ahh thanks guys. The main reason why i have not looked at US on line retailers is because I don't know anything about the legalities/ procedures of buying a diamond from the US. Any sites or advice would be most appreciative.

Secondly to oldmancoyote the reason why I'm going for high clarity stones is that my take on buying a diamond is that the higher the clarity the better the stone. Am I way off the mark here?

Procedure is exactly the same as an online purchase from a UK-based vendor. Only difference is you will need to pay custom charges - some carriers (e.g. Fedex) will do that for you and wait to release the item once you have reimbursed them, others (USPS / RoyalMail) will notify you that the item is held and wait for you to call HMRC and pay the duty and VAT over the phone (credit/debit cards taken). Duty for US-originating goods is - as Lorelei said - 2.5%; VAT goes on top of that.

Most US vendors offer an unconditional return period of at least 7 days; if you need longer than that to have the item inspected, I think most people would be unserstanding and allow a longer period - but make sure to clear it with them in advance. Keep all the paperwork, since you can claim VAT and duty back if you re-export the stone within a short timeframe (I think 3 months). It's a bit of a palaver in this respect, but it's not particularly complicated.

Re: the clarity question - I think you got an excellent answer from Lorelei; clarity is very different from quality. It's a minimum requirement (and an elastic one at that - different people have different eyesight) that the stone is transparent and free of eye-visible inclusions. Above that, you are paying for rarity and peace of mind that someone more eagle-eyed than you will not notice the spot.