Buying from CeylonSapphireGems: An expensive mistake

[Cerulean]

Why is it restricted and also why is it so difficult to send $ out of Sri Lanka? Out of sheer curiosity I began researching sending money out of SL and read that it requires a permit etc. It sounds so complicated and just wondered what the motivation of this is for?

In any case, as others have mentioned a main problem is the lying. Please don't lie to the client. This vendor needs to have a "no returns" policy if refunding customers is so problematic; that way buyers can be more aware of the risk that they are undertaking.

I totally agree with your last point. I just assume that any gem I buy from overseas is not returnable. It sounds like this vendor misleads buyers about what’s possible.

I have no idea why PayPal is restricted, but I have suspicions.

Sri Lanka is one of the top countries in the world bearing gems, and I believe is positioned at #1 in the global market. The government and middlemen from first world nations probably have a vested interest in restricting direct-to-consumer business for Sri Lankan dealers. They sell at a fraction of the price because they are further up the supply chain. If it wasn’t restricted, it would open the floodgates and destabilize the market, I’m guessing.

With new technologies, like social media and easy money transfers, Sri Lankan dealers could have the ability to circumvent middle men (and government) who frankly make the most margin with the least peril. It could also deplete their resources. Some Sri Lankan dealers still have to engage in very risky practices that @Ionysis cited. I learned all of this just talking to them.

I don’t mean to make the middlemen sound sinister, it’s a legitimate way to do business. They also can provide white glove service, so that comes with the cost.

I say none of theirs to dismiss what @AnastasiaBeaverhausen and @Spring Day are dealing with. Like in any industry, I expect there are shady people.

 

[Cerulean]

I’m just gonna comment here and there on this thread instead of making my own. @AnastasiaBeaverhausen and I have had very similar experiences, almost identical.

@Module I believe that was me that you zelled. Thank you. I finally got a quarter of the money after over a month of waiting. But there was many before you that was sent all of my private information. I’m going to the bank today to make a brand new account.

Omg I just can’t believe that he shared your personal information. I am just totally shocked by this whole interaction.

Seriously, I think you have all of our sympathies. He’s behaving in a totally unethical manner.

 

[Ionysis]

Simple - the Sri Lankan government want wealth to stay in the country. There are many Sri Lankans living overseas with considerable wealth stuck in SL. If they were allowed to remove it, it could collapse the entire banking system. It is strict, there are no easy ways around it (or indeed any ways other than smuggling it out of the country).

Knowing this - why do Sri Lankan vendors offer money back guarantees they cannot legally honour? Unfortunately, the answer is usually greed and dishonesty. They can get a vast amount more from foreign buyers, whom they know expect a money back guarantee to feel confident enough to purchase, and are hoping that they won't ask for a refund. If they do, they generally don't actually have a plan. The only way really is to do it via an associate with links to the US / whichever country they are trying to get the money to. Eg asking a friend in the US to pay from their bank account and they will reimburse them in SL rupees when they're back in SL.

Bang on.

From my perspective I’m OK with buying direct and assuming no refund because the prices are so reasonable you’re pretty much guaranteed to be able to recoup your money selling on LT / eBay or another outlet. Aggravation factor notwithstanding.

 

[Module]

I’m just gonna comment here and there on this thread instead of making my own. @AnastasiaBeaverhausen and I have had very similar experiences, almost identical.

@Module I believe that was me that you zelled. Thank you. I finally got a quarter of the money after over a month of waiting. But there was many before you that was sent all of my private information. I’m going to the bank today to make a brand new account.

Just a quarter of it? You must have made a substantial purchase, what a awful waiting. Do you mind sharing the vendor picture and your pictures?

 

[Spring Day]

Are you still owed?

I JUST got my money this morning after two months.

 

[Cerulean]

I JUST got my money this morning after two months.

Thank goodness!!!!!

 

[Ionysis]

Ah that should give Anastasia some comfort. Really glad you weren’t out of pocket in the end.

 

[fussykiki]

I JUST got my money this morning after two months.

Full amount or just a quarter of it as you mentioned earlier?

 

[Mreader]

@lonysis I am not familiar with Sri Lankan culture but am wondering if there is a cultural reason for why he does not say "no" as in "no I am unable to generate a label" or "no I am unable to wire the money back" etc. In Arab culture for instance it is really rare for someone to say an outright "no" as it's seen as too abrupt. I am not making excuses for the vendor, but just wondering. Given that we are dealing with other cultures and countries in this situation I'm wondering if cultural barriers are a part of this whole mess. In any case in the future he should probably make his gems "final sale".

 

[Spring Day]

Just a quarter of it? You must have made a substantial purchase, what a awful waiting. Do you mind sharing the vendor picture and your pictures?

Full amount or just a quarter of it as you mentioned earlier?

The money I got from @Module was only a quarter of the whole refund. I got the rest of my money this morning after almost 2 months of waiting.

 

[Rfisher]

The money I got from @Module was only a quarter of the whole refund. I got the rest of my money this morning after almost 2 months of waiting.

From the vendor?
Or the vendor’s customers?

and add me to the others wishing to see vendor pics vs your pics of the stone you bought?

 

[cheegg]

A lot of similarities on the terrible business handling here. It is wrong to promise a solution, and when it comes to fulfill it, just make more and more excuses.

I feel the pain on both of you, and I am glad that @Spring Day got money back, and hope you can get your money back soon. But even though it solved in the end, it DOES not mean it is OK to practice business this way. Sending a customer's bank information to random people? That is even worse than dodging responsibility or making excuses.

May I ask when this happen to you? I made payment to him around June 20th, but he did not mention paying anyone in the US to me. I hope that was before he needed to refund both of you though...

 

[Spring Day]

From the vendor?
Or the vendor’s customers?

and add me to the others wishing to see vendor pics vs your pics of the stone you bought?

All from customers.

 

[Rfisher]

A lot of similarities on the terrible business handling here. It is wrong to promise a solution, and when it comes to fulfill it, just make more and more excuses.

I feel the pain on both of you, and I am glad that @Spring Day got money back, and hope you can get your money back soon. But even though it solved in the end, it DOES not mean it is OK to practice business this way. Sending a customer's bank information to random people? That is even worse than dodging responsibility or making excuses.

May I ask when this happen to you? I made payment to him around June 20th, but he did not mention paying anyone in the US to me. I hope that was before he needed to refund both of you though...

Is vendor really sending banking info?
Does Zelle require this?
not saying name, phone number, address is not bad practice - but a few have stated ‘banking info’ and I’m curious?

 

[Spring Day]

A lot of similarities on the terrible business handling here. It is wrong to promise a solution, and when it comes to fulfill it, just make more and more excuses.

I feel the pain on both of you, and I am glad that @Spring Day got money back, and hope you can get your money back soon. But even though it solved in the end, it DOES not mean it is OK to practice business this way. Sending a customer's bank information to random people? That is even worse than dodging responsibility or making excuses.

May I ask when this happen to you? I made payment to him around June 20th, but he did not mention paying anyone in the US to me. I hope that was before he needed to refund both of you though...

I asked for a refund on June 22nd so just shortly after you.

 

[Spring Day]

Is it really sending banking info?
Does Zelle require this?
not saying name, phone number, address is not bad practice - but a few have stated ‘banking info’ and I’m curious?

When sending US wire and intentional wire information, I had to send my name, address, and account number.

 

[cheegg]

Is vendor really sending banking info?
Does Zelle require this?
not saying name, phone number, address is not bad practice - but a few have stated ‘banking info’ and I’m curious?

Yes, a few did mentioned received bank account information on Page one.

 

[Spring Day]

 

[Rfisher]

Wire bank info. Ouch.
For some reason I thought it was something else.

and for clarification -
Why I’m asking about pictures and cost points of these stones
Is that at the ‘right’ price, these stones and their features may be acceptable to someone else.
vendor not being acceptable - that’s a different subject.

 

[Spring Day]

I’m very glad and relieved I got my money but the process it took was not ok. We just need to make sure @AnastasiaBeaverhausen gets her money now.

 

[Ionysis]

@lonysis I am not familiar with Sri Lankan culture but am wondering if there is a cultural reason for why he does not say "no" as in "no I am unable to generate a label" or "no I am unable to wire the money back" etc. In Arab culture for instance it is really rare for someone to say an outright "no" as it's seen as too abrupt. I am not making excuses for the vendor, but just wondering. Given that we are dealing with other cultures and countries in this situation I'm wondering if cultural barriers are a part of this whole mess. In any case in the future he should probably make his gems "final sale".

There are many cultural nuances here. Not least the fact that most gem dealers are not the mainly Buddhist Sinhalese but from the Muslim minority population where the sensitivities are slightly different.

Arguing or disagreeing in public is not culturally acceptable at all. The concept of “face” (reputation / honour) is very important. When things go wrong in business transactions the most common response is that it is “no problem” or easily fixed. It’s very rare that a subordinate in the office for example will own up to an error, they will do everything to try to fix it before escalating, and obfuscate as far as they can. This can sometimes be very frustrating from a management perspective!

Generally speaking Sri Lankan people are polite, gentle, reluctant to criticise and extremely conflict avoidant. If they don’t know you well they are likely to say what they think you want to hear. The communication style when compared to the US or UK for example is often considered ambiguous.

They prefer to hint rather than be explicit in their meaning. A Sri Lankan's concern with saving face and not wanting to have an argument means they do say ‘yes’ whether they mean it or not. Be very careful with asking for directions. Even if the person doesn’t know they way they will give you directions sometimes because they don’t want to disoblige or admit they don’t know!

The Sri Lankan sense of time is relaxed. As long as something happens eventually, that’s Ok. Business negotiations progress slowly and it’s almost impossible to do business in the country successfully without third party introductions from a trusted person. During a business meeting, in my experience a Sri Lankan will seldom give a flat no, even when the proposal is not at all acceptable. You need to pick up on nuances of reluctance. If something isn’t possible they will often say “I am trying” or “I will do everything I can”. A lot of business decisions are influenced by gut feelings not facts and figures and based on verbal agreements not written contractual terms.

The cultural aspects of transacting with other countries is extremely relevant.

When living in the US or U.K. people from other cultures become accustomed to our way of being straight upfront, brutally honest and direct in business dealings. But I know from speaking to many of my colleagues it was at first shocking and extremely uncomfortable for them to understand this.

 

[Spring Day]

I’m going to stop posting and take a break from PS. I’m done dealing with this and I need to focus on my personal life. I will come by to respond to my preloved posts.

 

[Cinders]

What an ordeal! I'm sorry you've had to deal with so many complications--what a nightmare! I hope you get your entire refund soon.

(And, wholly off-topic, I love your username!)

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

So I haven't read through the whole thread yet, but wire fraud. How is that legal?
Is this vendor committing International Wire Fraud? He is giving out private banking information from private customers to other private customers onto the wild west of the internet from a base in SL.
That seems super crime-y to me.

 

[westofhere]

After this interaction comes to ...whatever end, this seller needs to have his Instagram account removed so he can’t do this to others.

 

[Ionysis]

So I haven't read through the whole thread yet, but wire fraud. How is that legal?
Is this vendor committing International Wire Fraud? He is giving out private banking information from private customers to other private customers onto the wild west of the internet from a base in SL.
That seems super crime-y to me.

Jesus wept…. definition of fraud - scheme to defraud the victim of money or property. He is trying to refund the money not steal it.

Panic over people being able to steal from you with the info you’ve provided for a wire transfer is unwarranted. It would need a combination of your date of birth, Identity Number, PIN, full name, address, the full card number on the front of the card, its expiry date and CVG number at the back to extract money from your bank account.

It isn’t possible for your account to be hacked with just an account number and sort code, even with your name and address details. Your cheques have this info on them! The only thing someone can do with the data provided for a wire transfer is put money INTO your account.

How do I know this? Because I head up a risk department of a international commercial bank. Let’s please not scaremonger and make people more worried and upset than they are already.

 

[nutellakitty]

I have purchased multiple sapphires here are my two cents.
I understand that you are disappointed by the color difference.
When you want to determine the color of the sapphires especially for the blue ones, the pictures on tweezers are NEVER NEVER NEVER the accurate description of the real color. (For my experience, I only use the tweezer pictures to see if there are inclusions).
This is the trick that sellers always play to make customers believe that is the color in real life. Sellers also use magnifying lenses to make the color more saturated. If you do not know about tricks, and do not ask for more pictures, or use your own judgment and experience you may get tricked into the business by thinking you got the almost impossible pure blue.

Most blue sapphires tend to be darker to the eye indoors, especially under low light. (No matter how nicely bluish they are under the sun, blue sapphires do not glow like neon blue cobalt spinels in the dark).
If you bought is a royal blue by certificate, it is impossible that the color in person is like the tweezer pictures.

To determine the real color. You need to see it on the person's hand, or on a temporary setting, picture taken under natural light, under the shades, and indoor with curtains shut.

 

[Rfisher]

Jesus wept…. definition of fraud - scheme to defraud the victim of money or property. He is trying to refund the money not steal it.

Panic over people being able to steal from you with the info you’ve provided for a wire transfer is unwarranted. It would need a combination of your date of birth, Identity Number, PIN, full name, address, the full card number on the front of the card, its expiry date and CVG number at the back to extract money from your bank account.

It isn’t possible for your account to be hacked with just an account number and sort code, even with your name and address details. Your cheques have this info on them! The only thing someone can do with the data provided for a wire transfer is put money INTO your account.

How do I know this? Because I head up a risk department of a international commercial bank. Let’s please not scaremonger and make people more worried and upset than they are already.

Something that’s not being said:

it sure is different if you’ve given a vendor permission to do this, or you even knew in advance
VS
not.
I don’t know if that’s been said here- which one it was.

 

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

Jesus wept…. definition of fraud - scheme to defraud the victim of money or property. He is trying to refund the money not steal it.

Panic over people being able to steal from you with the info you’ve provided for a wire transfer is unwarranted. It would need a combination of your date of birth, Identity Number, PIN, full name, address, the full card number on the front of the card, its expiry date and CVG number at the back to extract money from your bank account.

It isn’t possible for your account to be hacked with just an account number and sort code, even with your name and address details. Your cheques have this info on them! The only thing someone can do with the data provided for a wire transfer is put money INTO your account.

How do I know this? Because I head up a risk department of a international commercial bank. Let’s please not scaremonger and make people more worried and upset than they are already.

@Ionysis: Just....stop. You keep going on and on about issues that don't address what people are posting about.

He refused to return any money until @Spring Day had to threaten him with posting on PS about this whole mess. That is intention to defraud.

And guess what? I, on the other hand, hadn't mentioned PS and oh looky here, I haven't gotten a single penny! But who knows. Maybe now that I've created this thread, he'll see he could lose more money than what he's taken from me.

And with the whole thing about sharing people's private information willy-nilly, you seriously think withdrawing money from people's account is the only issue here? Dude, he's sending our full name, address, email, phone number, and any combination of the above to at least half a dozen strangers. One was from France, another was in Dubai, I think there was someone from China in there... Come on, people don't even like it when companies sell our contact info to spammers. You really see nothing wrong with this?

Oh! And now that I think about it, he never actually sent us proof that any of his clients agreed to send the money to us. He would just share a screenshot of our banking info that he had sent to someone and would go "See??? I confirmed the payment with my client. You will get the money today or tomorrow." Ugh...

And why do you keep waxing poetic about how trustworthy and reliable Asian vendors are usually? Honestly, why does that even matter here? CeylonSapphireGems has NOT conducted himself in an ethical manner and should not be excused as such.

Furthermore, I can't believe you have the gall to say if I can't stomach the loss then I shouldn't bother working with sellers who are cash-only (so to speak). Ok so I don't need this money to pay bills or anything. But for most people, yeah it's gonna kinda suck.

But this is all just a smokescreen. The real issue that everyone else has been trying to get through to you is that regardless of whatever your experiences are, the fact remains that CEYLONSAPPHIREGEMS DID NOT ACT IN AN HONEST OR ETHICAL MANNER.

In fact, I had just made a return earlier this year to another international vendor from IG. I goofed and sent them the number for the wrong account. You know what this vendor did when I told them? They immediately contacted their bank asked them to sent it to the correct account of mine. Then, they sent me a screenshot with the confirmation from their bank and the updated ETA. This is how honest and ethical vendors behave.

Rant. Over.

 

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

Hello again everyone! I'll try to answer everyone's questions as best as I can. Also, @Spring Day is dealing with a lot of heavy family issues right now. So with her permission, I'll share some bits about her/our experience with y’all. And I’ll put headers in my post this time, lol.

@Spring Day's refund
So @Spring Day bought 2 stones from CeylonSapphireGems (CSG). One she received and returned. The 2nd stone hadn't been shipped yet by the time she returned the first stone. She requested a refund for both. CSG promised to return the money for the unshipped stone immediately and will refund the rest once he gets the other stone back.

For 6 weeks, CSG didn't give her a single penny. Then @Spring Day happened to mention that she only knew of him because he had such glowing reviews on Pricescope; but after this experience, she should warn others about how he conducts his business. He once again promises to get her a full refund; 25% from a US client through Zelle, which we now know is from @Module (thanks btw!!), and the rest through a wire transfer from who knows. Only the money from @Module shows up.

So at this point, in order to get a fraction of her refund, her personal information was given to at least 2 strangers. And after all that, it was barely half of what he owed her for the stone that never even left his possession!

More weeks go by. More broken promises and delays from CSG. Then 2 days ago, @Spring Day saw @cheegg's thread about her bad experience with CeylonSapphireGems. She posts a reply in commiseration that we too are having trouble with this vendor. Lo and behold, @Spring Day got the rest of her money back today finally! Sure, it came from two other strangers. But whatever, she has her money now and can be done with CSG forever!

Huzzaaaaaah!

I’m so relieved for @Spring Day. Well, I’m “98% happy, maybe 2% jealous. And what's 2%? That's nothing.” -- FRIENDS.

Banking Information
Regarding the bank acct thing -- So in order to send and receive wire transfers, you need info such as the person's name and address, name and address of their bank, account number, and a routing number of some sort. For Zelle and other P2P payment systems, usually you just need a name, phone number, and/or email address. We sent all of this information to Ceylon when he said he was going to wire us our money through his “black market” (his words, not mine) money exchange agent.

BUT WITHOUT TELLING US, he was also simultaneously sharing our personal info with clients who were about to buy from him and would ask if they could send some of the money to one of our accounts instead. As of now, he’s what, 3 for 8? 9? I’ve lost count. But either way, the odds aren’t great.