Calling All Cutters!

[minousbijoux]

What about Michael, Roger, Rick, Peter, Jeff (all of them), Steve, Dave, Ruffy's Dad? If anyone is around and wants to contribute, we'd love to hear 'em! And thank you in advance.

 

[EmmaJoy]

[sorry to hijack] I am the proud owner of bobsiv's spess (it's actually part of a pair). And I can tell you they are really magnificent. His cutting really played up the deep orange and it is just the most unique and gorgeous shape. I've been holding on to them for almost a year while searching for the perfect center stone to make a ring. I am talking to a cutter who might have the rough I'm looking for, but I know my center stone has got to be incredible to stand up to those little guys. It's so great to have the cutters as part of this community, I hope they know their work is truly valued by the consumers!!

 

[minousbijoux]

Nice! Its always really good to hear from the recipients of the great cutting. Its good for the cutters to know we appreciate them (we do, we really, really do!), and its good for the rest of us to know that someone has done a stellar job and is good to work with. Thank you for reporting back.

Now let us know what you're looking for for the center stone, and one might just pop up in the SGBTS thread.

 

[chrono]

I hope the other lapidaries see this thread and are up to sharing both good and poor experiences of recuts.

 

[PrecisionGem]

I can say that I have never had a spinel crack while being cut. Had a few tourmalines. Maybe 7 years ago, I bought what to me at the time was a pretty expensive blue green tourmaline from Afghanistan. I think I paid close to $200 for the rough. As soon as I started to cut it, it cracked in a series of cracks parallel to the C axis. It was a real shame as it was a very nice color. That color and size stone today would be over $400 for the rough.

I have no recollection of an inexpensive rough turning out to be a fantastic stone. But there have been many expensive pieces of rough that have turned out to be losses. With rough its often very hard to see into the stone until you start to cut it, often unwelcome surprises show up. Sadly, as with most everything else in life, you do get what you pay for. Cheap rough stones, never yield expensive gem quality cut stones. I have always found Songea Sapphires to be a big disappointment. It's easy to get sucked into to buying them in the rough, since they can look very nice when held up to a light, but they consistently cut dark boring. These stones are really best kept for Be treating, as they can turn a very nice yellow and cut a pretty stone. I know that Be treated stones are looked down upon on this forum, but they can be quite attractive. When I hear people say that a Be treated sapphire should only sell for a few dollars per ct, I wonder how. The last few pieces of Be treated Songea sapphire rough I bought was maybe $25 per ct in the rough, which would make the break even point for a cut stone around $100 per ct.

 

[PrecisionGem]

I hope the other lapidaries see this thread and are up to sharing both good and poor experiences of recuts.

I don't do many re-cuts, but I have never had one break up on the dop, and they have always come out looking much better than the original stone, both brighter, and with stronger color. I'll buy blue sapphires to recut from time to time, but I really don't like doing re-cuts as it seems that half the fun or sport of cutting a stone is lost by not starting with rough.

I'd think there is way less chance of a stone being re-cut cracking than a piece of rough. Normally if a stone has a lot of built up stress and is going to crack, it will crack very early on in the cutting, just from grinding a flat spot to dop it. I have never had a stone make it through the initial roughing in stages of cutting that later cracked during the final cutting and polishing. I'm sure it can happen, but it is rare. I'm guessing I have cut well over 2000 stones and have never seen it.

 

[gsellis]

I won't recut anything unless I know the person. It is extremely tricky with no assurance that you can be successful to unspoken expectations. I have not yet accepted a job to recut a tourmaline. We will first have to decide the goal. If it is to save weight, I have to create an unconventional emerald (add a difference girdle cut on each side of the cut corner) as the corner is chipped to the girdle. But I know the guy.

As for someone else's rough, I do it, but it is for collected material (and a couple key friends I know can send me anything). It is that whole expectation thing and the concern of litigation. I cannot turn trash into treasure and it is even harder to convince some people that their treasure is trash. But, I can say as a group, real rockhounds are very good at setting and adjusting expectations when you look at their rough. Of course, I do the engineering thing and tell all the dirty secrets while looking at it (ask Barrett or Haywood ) One thing I may have to start doing when I get back into more time for cutting is charging an evaluation fee. Handing me a box of rocks takes time to sort, classify, and examine (Haywood, you are exempt - )

 

[minousbijoux]

I can see as an artist that you would absolutely want to start from a blank canvas and not "touch up" someone else's work.

I like your description of stones that "cut dark boring." Perfect, lapidary's delight

 

[minousbijoux]

George: an evaluation fee sounds very fair, particularly when presented with a box full of rocks - sheeesh!

 

[ChrisA222]

As a guy who realllly values cutting, its too bad that you guys have had so many bad experiences with previous clients, recutting their rough/gemstones. To me, there is nothing more fun than going out there and trying to find the native cut mess of a stone with the most potential after a recut. I do it often, and have had (generally) good results, working with the few cutters that will do recuts. It is just a shame that I cannot go to, say, Gene, George, or Barry, and ask for their work on my stone. Even though I understand the risks and potential lack of rewards in the end, someone before me spoiled my shot at working with you guys, by NOT understanding or accepting the risks involved.

I know enough about rough to know that I don't know enough to buy it, lol, but I'd like to learn more about rough so that at one point I CAN go out and buy it, and then have someone cut it for me. It would be like treasure hunting...and, I would have no problem paying an evaluation fee and signing a waiver that says "I will not litagate, I accept responsibility and am aware of the risks". I know the cutters reputations (and examples of work) well enough to know they would try their best to get the best results from whatever is brought to them. I wish that was enough assurance for you guys....

Lets face it...there is less and less rough available in a lot of materials for you guys to source it to cut...there are a LOT of cut stones out there though...and most of them were cut in countries outside of our own, with mediocre equipment and questionable cutting abilities. Maybe the abilities were there but the focus of the end result was different (such as cutting for weight retention, only) etc.

For now, I am very grateful for being able to work with Dan Stair and Jerry Newman. But as you cutters all know, you are all very skilled and all have specialties or abilities to do different styles of cuts (Concave, for example) so it would be just excellent for an enthusiast like myself who values cutting more than most, to have my cutter of choice work on my stone that I worked so hard to source.

OK Im done with my threadjack...onward and upward!

 

[PrecisionGem]

Chris, have you ever thought about cutting yourself? Maybe you should. I can help you with the faceting machine.

 

[ChrisA222]

Nah...I dont think I have the finances to buy it, the time to take lessons, and Im generally not good with my hands. LOL

Maybe someday when I am not working as many hours, when I have more time to actually learn. Nothing worse than spending a couple grand on a machine that I won't ever figure out how to operate properly. Its just so intimidating, too.

 

[chrono]

I think it'll be very interesting to try my hand at faceting. The problem for me is time and I'm travelling too much at the moment.

 

[gsellis]

Chris, Crono, you can try it for less than $350. The William Holland School of Lapidary Arts is less than $350 for room, board, and class for a week. There can be lab costs up to $50. You can try before you buy. I was hoping to get enough time off in my new job to do a week there to teach Faceting I class. Faceting instruction is disappearing. Unfortunately, I won't be teaching next year (which could be a good thing )

The school is in Young Harris, GA and the view from the main lodge porch is of the highest mountain in GA (although the trees are starting to obscure it.) And recently opened was a mine that produces gold, corundum, and fairy crosses only about 7 miles north (MAGMA managed site). Wednesday is a 1/2 day and Franklin, NC is less than an hour away.

And on recuts, it is not so much the prior art, but dopping the stone for a recut and then working with the original design. On a big emerald cut, you have to get the center of the keel on the dop and squared correctly. We have tricks including Magnadops, but it is mostly by eye at .05mm tolerances. And the tools do not promote getting the correct angle. Easiest are the cone of a brilliant and a nice table. A cone dop helps center it and then the a flat table squares it. But you still have to hit the center right to get it setup for minimal loss. That is why The Gem Doctor rocks so. He has one of the best eyes in the business.

PS - while it may seem expensive, you can start with new equipment under $3k (and up). You need a saw, a faceting machine, and laps. That is just a couple of those 5ct plus blue sapphires

 

[Roger Dery]

Like George, Gene and some of the other cutters, I don't relish taking in recuts from those not in the industry. In my opinion, there is already enough risk in this business that I find myself hard pressed to go out looking for more.

However, when I first began faceting, my intent was to take the time to recut my complete inventory of existing stones (of any sized gems worth recutting). I didn't begin buying rough in any quantity until 2003. By fall of 2004 I'd already worked through everything I owned in cut goods, and began taking in work from other gem dealers. In addition, during this time, we were still taking in repairs from jewelers.

In 2005 I trained another fellow to tackle the repairs, recuts from gem dealers, and any other outside work that arrived. From then on, I primarily focused on acquiring top quality rough for me to cut and sell. It is this work that is the most satisfying and creates enough income to support a family.

While I am not against performing repairs, they remain the most challenging and greatest risk of disappointment.

 

[minousbijoux]

Roger:

Have any good/bad cutting stories for us?

 

[Roger Dery]

Roger:
Have any good/bad cutting stories for us?

Well.... I think every cutter has a few "situations". Before the change in export regs in Tanzania, we were able to bring out nice sized crystals to cut (over the one gram limit). So here's one I had not yet heated, and was just finishing the polish on the final facets. Right down the center of the stone a cleavage line gives way. I treated this Tanzanite just as carefully as all the others, but nevertheless it was wanting to be in two pieces. Finished out at 3.09ct. A good example that no matter how careful the faceter is, things can still happen.

 

[Roger Dery]

I think most folks understand Emeralds are not to be handled roughly. So here's a situation where I was recutting one of my own goods from an oval into a pear shape. No rough handling here, just the weakness of the Emerald crystal not interested in staying together. This piece has been sitting on my workbench in a visible position as a reminder of what can happen.

Fortunately, we have way more examples of great execution with no ill effects!

 

[minousbijoux]

Wow, those are beautiful, but heartbreaking examples. That emerald has amazing glow.

 

[LD]

Roger:
Have any good/bad cutting stories for us?

Well.... I think every cutter has a few "situations". Before the change in export regs in Tanzania, we were able to bring out nice sized crystals to cut (over the one gram limit). So here's one I had not yet heated, and was just finishing the polish on the final facets. Right down the center of the stone a cleavage line gives way. I treated this Tanzanite just as carefully as all the others, but nevertheless it was wanting to be in two pieces. Finished out at 3.09ct. A good example that no matter how careful the faceter is, things can still happen.

Earrings?

Glue? (That's clearly a joke).

This must be so heartbreaking after you've invested time in the cutting process.

 

[chrono]

From a technical view point, that's an amazing picture of perfect cleavage.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

Re: Calling All Cutters!
Post by Chrono » 27 Nov 2012 09:22
From a technical view point, that's an amazing picture of perfect cleavage.

Maybe, but that doesn't warrant such bawdy talk, Chrono!

 

[chrono]

Ah, I suppose that comment is better suited to the JXR romancing the stone thread, starring LD and Barrett.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Chrono, I think you should start cutting. Engineers learn cutting quickly.

 

[chrono]

Gene,
How quickly would expect an engineer to pick this up? I am on the road fairly often.

 

[minousbijoux]

I second that! Chrono, if engineers pick it up quickly, then you would pick it up superfast, given the knowledge you already possess about gemology.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Gene,
How quickly would expect an engineer to pick this up? I am on the road fairly often.

The hard part is not the actual act of cutting. Buying good rough, and then knowing how to pick the right design and orientate the stone is the hard part. There are little quirks with polishing, and lap selection. It seems every cutter has his own different way of doing things, and they all feel very strongly they are correct. I think I have the best way too!

I am self taught, I read everything I could find on it, and actually my first stone came out pretty well aside from a lopsided girdle. With proper training, you could learn the fundaments of how to physically cut in 1 day. To become proficient and be able to turn out beautiful stones consistently is really a lifetime adventure.

I have seen people pick up cutting pretty quick, and then I have seen others fail and sell their machines.