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Jobo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
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22
Hi LIW

Am sorry to pass on all this info, but I really need to vent before I explode!!

I have been on this forum before, but my story up until this point is that I (thought) I had a wonderful boyfriend of two years, we had actively discussed marriage and kids, where we want to live in the future, we have a joint spendings bank account for holidays and rent and also a joint bank savings account that we are using to save up for our house. In March this year after much research (from me) he bought me a gorgeous 1.05 RB E SI1 Diamond in a Dvatche setting.

In other words, everything was going wonderfully and I thought that a proposal was only a matter of a few short months away.

While we live together, he works away monday to friday and drives home every fri afternoon and back again on monday (4hrs each way). So our plan was to save our money and get a job in the same town and get married as soon as our finances/careers would allow it.

Anyway, I have been feeling increasingly unhappy with this holding pattern (as I like to call it) and have put a little bit of pressure on him to commit to a date when we would be likely to live together or he thinks we would have saved enough or as I am turning 30 soon, should we plan for me to give up work and have kids while he is still in his current employment (as he doesn''t pay rent) and then when I can go back to to work, we buy the big house together. I Need some plan god damit!

Anyway this weekend just been, I really wanted to get some answers out of him so we sat down and spoke and I couldn''t believe what I was hearing..

He told me that...

1. He wasnot able to give me a date when or if we were going to live together, it depends on what happens with work
2. He told me that while marriage is natural progression for our relationship, he does not know when or even IF it may happen and that if he had already had the inclination to marry me he would have asked me already.
3. He got angry at me that I had EXPECTATIONS and that I had already chosen the flowers I wanted and had already picked the date etc etc.

Can I just say that my world was crushed to hear these hurtful, spiteful comments!

Don''t get me wrong, I hadn''t picked the date, I had just mentioned that the flowers I want are in season at that time of the year. I hadn''t organised anything and I hadn''t booked a church . NOTHING!

And when I told him that we had sat on our front porch last year and I asked him if we should plan a holiday this year, his response was ''Maybe we should get married''.

When I mentioned this to him, he said ''Maybe I shouldn''t have said that''!

So what do I do?? At this point I just want to hate him and wonder what has made him change his mind?

Or maybe its as simple as he has just got cold feet?

Anyone have any ideas?
 
Wow, this is a tough one. I really think you need to have another talk with him and find out if the two of you are on the same page. This might be easier said than done because from your post it sounds like talking about the future of your relationship annoys/angers your SO, but hopefully that is not the case.

If you know that marriage is what you want, then you need to make sure he is on the same page. Lets face it, none of us are getting any younger, and while have plenty of time to find Mr. Right and get married, we DON''T have time to waste with Mr Wrong.
 
wow - he is definitely sending you mixed signals.. I mean, what kind of guy tells you if he had the inclination to marry you he would have asked already meanwhile he has already bought you an engagement ring? He makes no sense... Maybe he was angry when he said that? In any case - you need to make it clear that these mixed signals on his part are unacceptable and unfair. Don''t stand for that crap and make sure you stand your ground. Make sure you communicate your desires clearly and that this dillydallying isn''t cool. Either he sees a future with you or doesn''t.. If he doesn''t - dump him.
 
Cold feet? No.

That''s what you''re hoping it is. Do yourself a favor and take what he said at face value. Don''t second guess him. Just believe what he says.

It doesn''t matter what he''s said and done before. This is what is called "late breaking news" and it''s valid. If he''s so lame as to say these things to you after all the hope he has given you, then just say to him, thanks for clearing that up, I''ll be on my way. I really doubt he thinks you''ll do that, which is precisely why you should. If that makes him think twice, then you can deal with that then, and if not, you won''t have wasted any more time.

Women read too much into what men say, and read it the way they want to. Listen to him. Accept what he said. Time to show him you cannot be jerked around like this.
 
I''m with TG on this one. People don''t just say thing like that if they don''t mean them. He has gotten you to do it his way so far with vague promises of marriage, so why would he propose? I think you need to talk and to start planning for YOUR future, not his that may or may not involve you depending on his current mood.
 
Ditto to TGal and BIH.

I'm sorry he's putting you through this.
 
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As I understand, the ring and diamond was a present, not an e-ring?

So insensitive of him. I can''t imagine anyone talking to their FI.

I don''t think you guys need to talk about it-his message is clear.
 
Ouch!! Listen, pick yourself up and move on... Wishing you all the best going forward. It''s hard, but better to know now than later. You deserve better.
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My God

I feel physically sick to read your answers.

To clear things up, we did buy the ring together as an engagement ring. The intent was always for me to research what I wanted and him to present it to me when the time was right.

I didn''t actually ask when that would be, but assumed it would be sometime soon after we bought it.

I also asked him if he regretted buying the ring (I mean, he is the most frugal man in the world at times) when he said those horrible things and he replied ''I never regret anything I do''.

And while I agree with TH & BIH, ( I refuse to hang around long after the party is finished) but is it a bit harsh to just dump him from one argument after two years? We were both pretty angry and hurtful at the time these things were said.

What if he just feels backed into a corner by me continually dropping hints (sometimes nicely and sometimes not so nicely) and is just waiting for his own timeline?
 
Date: 6/23/2008 3:39:48 AM
Author: Jobo
My God


I feel physically sick to read your answers.


To clear things up, we did buy the ring together as an engagement ring. The intent was always for me to research what I wanted and him to present it to me when the time was right.


I didn't actually ask when that would be, but assumed it would be sometime soon after we bought it.


I also asked him if he regretted buying the ring (I mean, he is the most frugal man in the world at times) when he said those horrible things and he replied 'I never regret anything I do'.


And while I agree with TH & BIH, ( I refuse to hang around long after the party is finished) but is it a bit harsh to just dump him from one argument after two years? We were both pretty angry and hurtful at the time these things were said.


What if he just feels backed into a corner by me continually dropping hints (sometimes nicely and sometimes not so nicely) and is just waiting for his own timeline?
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I am so, so sorry, but I think I might walk too. I think it's gone beyond him wanting his own timeline--in your original post, he said that he didn't even know IF he wanted to get married anymore! That's a big red flag right there. He's backtracked. You'd had conversations about marriage and kids, you picked out an engagement ring together, and NOW he's saying he doesn't know IF you'll get married?!?! The other stuff I think might be able to be explained away to some degree, but not that one. He's going back all your previous conversations, and it sounds like HE'S pissed off at YOU for holding him to how he felt before. Not good.

I really am very, very sorry.
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Jobo

I am so sorry you are going through this.....but I have to say the signs he is giving you are not good.

Lets look at the facts:

1: You have no definate answer that you will live together in the future
2: He does not know IF he wants to get married
3: He feels if he did he would have asked you by now to marry him
4: He gets angry at you when he thinks you have picked flowers out/ date etc

I am really sorry if this seems a bit blunt but from what you have written I get the impression he does not want to commit and is quite happy coasting along they way things are only seeing you at weekends.
Whilst he is making all the right noises so to speak with respect to a joint account, savings, ring ect I just don''t think when it boils down to it he can commit to you in the way you want him to.

It maybe that he is not just ready, and you walking away will give him time to reflect and realise exactly how wonderful you are and how lucky he is to have you and you guys can then get back on track and on the same page

OR

It may be that is never going to be ready. and as hard as it may be you have to walk away permantley.


I am so so sorry you are going through this

Hugs coming you way

Take care
 
Hon, I agree with the others. I hate to say it, but you've got to walk. As T'Gal pointed out, he'll quickly figure out what he really wants at that point, but I wouldn't hold my breath. But the bottom line is, he was very clear. He may have mixed feelings, but these are at least some of his feelings.

And you should not try to analyze them into something you like. He said what he means. He's at least really ambivalent. At the very LEAST. If you're almost 30, and marriage & kids is something you want, don't hang around.

Don't drag this on and on. Go on with your life. He may come after you, like NEL's guy did several month's later (she's married now), but then again he may not. The key is to move on.

He may be one of those cowardly guys who can't stand to break up and doesn't want to hurt you, but doesn't want to marry you either, so they just string you alooooong.
It's possible he bought the ring because he felt pressured. We've heard of situations like that on here before. If that's the case and he bought you that ring, all I can say is, what a JERK! I really hope that's not the case. He may just be really conflicted.

But seriously, you gotta take care of yourself. And this will only get harder if you stay.

So sorry.
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I just had another thought. If he''s away all week every week, and he seems to have done a 180, is it possible that he''s met someone else? Do you trust him 100%? Have there been any signs along that line?

I just always remember Becky P in these situations. (Her guy turned out to be leading a double life).
 
Date: 6/23/2008 8:27:02 AM
Author: Independent Gal
I just had another thought. If he''s away all week every week, and he seems to have done a 180, is it possible that he''s met someone else? Do you trust him 100%? Have there been any signs along that line?

I just always remember Becky P in these situations. (Her guy turned out to be leading a double life).
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My thoughts exactly. He was in love with her. Now he is not.

Sad, but there usually is a reason. Maybe someone else. Maybe just a plain change of heart. Either way, from his own lips - this man is not going to live with you, marry you, or make any sort of commitment with you in the near term. I would remove my half of all the money in the accounts and move on.
 
I have to agree with the others--I think he''s being very honest with you, though what he''s telling you is hurtful.

I also really hate to say this, but I truly believe it, so I''m saying it anyway. When he tells you things like " I don''t know IF I want to marry you" and you hold onto the relationship anyway hoping that he will change his mind an want to marry you, not only do you lose respect for yourself, but he loses respect for you, too. It sucks and it isn''t really fair, especially because by buying the ring he was leading you to believe that marriage was what he wanted. But he''s backing out, he''s completely non-commital at this point. He''s nowhere near ready to live together, he doesn''t know if he wants to get married and he''s upset at the prospect of you looking into some wedding plans. He''s not even close to being ready for marriage.

I know that it is extremely frustrating to be with somebody who isn''t ready for marriage and I also know how hard it is to read the signs clearly and leave. When a man is ready for marriage, there are no more excuses.
 
"Anyway, I have been feeling increasingly unhappy with this holding pattern (as I like to call it) and have put a little bit of pressure on him to commit to a date when we would be likely to live together or he thinks we would have saved enough or as I am turning 30 soon, should we plan for me to give up work and have kids while he is still in his current employment (as he doesn''t pay rent) and then when I can go back to to work, we buy the big house together. I Need some plan god damit!"

Jobo, I am sorry to hear about your troubles!! But honestly, while trying to make tentative plans is good, bringing up marriage, kids, house, employment and wedding flowers up at the same time (especially when he does not seem 100% sure about a lot of things) does not seem like a good idea to me. While I am not condoning his reaction, I am just wondering whether some of it may have been a direct result of that "overload" and not really a reflection of what he really believes. Before making an rash decisions, I would give it a bit more time and address these issues separately to make them less threatening and overwhelming. Good luck!
 
Date: 6/23/2008 9:48:38 AM
Author: rob09
Jobo, I am sorry to hear about your troubles!! But honestly, while trying to make tentative plans is good, bringing up marriage, kids, house, employment and wedding flowers up at the same time (especially when he does not seem 100% sure about a lot of things) does not seem like a good idea to me. While I am not condoning his reaction, I am just wondering whether some of it may have been a direct result of that 'overload' and not really a reflection of what he really believes. Before making an rash decisions, I would give it a bit more time and address these issues separately to make them less threatening and overwhelming. Good luck!
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If he wasn't 100% sure of things before, would he have bought an engagement ring with her? I can understand why you're saying he doesn't sound sure because he doesn't NOW, but I don't think she was 'overloading him' before since they DID buy an engagement ring together. To me, that's a pretty clear sign that you want to marry someone, don't you think? So I don't think it really should be classified as a 'tentative plan.'
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Jobo, I hate to say this, but I agree with the wise posters above me. While I know it would be great if he were just upset, it sure sounds like he is sending you a clear message to me. This isn't "one fight". This is him sending you a message that you don't seem to want to read.


Let's look at the two possible scenarios if you walk and I think you'll realize they aren't that bad.

1. You walk, and he doesn't come after you. This sucks, but then at least you know his true colors and you can move on to bigger and better things/.

2. You walk, and he realizes that he DOES really want you and he comes back really ready to make the commitment to you. (And don't let him back if he's just talking the talk, he needs to walk the walk!).

Neither thing is really that scary, and BOTH are very very good for YOU in the long run. And YOU are what is truly important here.

Big hugs honey...things will look up I promise.
 
Jobo, I''ve got to ditto TGal and everyone else who said it''s time to carve out a new path, sans him. This isn''t just an argument this is a man who took you to buy a ring, told you he was comfortable with a September wedding date, and is now holding the ring because he does not know when, or even if, that is where you are headed as a couple. He''s toying with you, and you''re letting him hold all of the cards. This isn''t his relationship, in which he gets to call all of the shots; you are a couple, who made some big decisions about your life together, including joint bank accounts, savings for a house, and an estimated wedding date, until now when he''s unsure and your left with a lot of useless plans about your future that he''s no longer on board with. I think that''s a lot more harsh than your leaving.
 
Date: 6/23/2008 10:01:09 AM
Author: gwendolyn
Date: 6/23/2008 9:48:38 AM

Author: rob09

Jobo, I am sorry to hear about your troubles!! But honestly, while trying to make tentative plans is good, bringing up marriage, kids, house, employment and wedding flowers up at the same time (especially when he does not seem 100% sure about a lot of things) does not seem like a good idea to me. While I am not condoning his reaction, I am just wondering whether some of it may have been a direct result of that ''overload'' and not really a reflection of what he really believes. Before making an rash decisions, I would give it a bit more time and address these issues separately to make them less threatening and overwhelming. Good luck!
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If he wasn''t 100% sure of things before, would he have bought an engagement ring with her? I can understand why you''re saying he doesn''t sound sure because he doesn''t NOW, but I don''t think she was ''overloading him'' before since they DID buy an engagement ring together. To me, that''s a pretty clear sign that you want to marry someone, don''t you think? So I don''t think it really should be classified as a ''tentative plan.''
7.gif
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I''m with Gwen on this. It''s not like she suddenly sprung all this stuff on him. He bought her an engagement ring, and these are all things that need to be talked about as two people prepare for marriage. Buying someone a ring is a pretty clear signal that you intend to marry that person.

The fact that he''s backtracking now and saying these things suggests that either he was too cowardly and bought the ring to ''keep you quiet'' or else that something has changed with him.

In either case, Neatfreak''s advice that leaving will make things clear one way or another and not be the end of the world is the way to go.

This man built up your dreams and expectations for the life that lay ahead of you and then p!ssed all over them.
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And please, remove your half of the money from your accounts NOW!
 
My ex-boyfriend bought me an engagement ring and never presented it to me. He changed his mind and couldn't commit. While I think it was an intention at the time, things can and do change. I think you should move on too.
 
Date: 6/23/2008 8:27:02 AM
Author: Independent Gal
I just had another thought. If he''s away all week every week, and he seems to have done a 180, is it possible that he''s met someone else? Do you trust him 100%? Have there been any signs along that line?

I just always remember Becky P in these situations. (Her guy turned out to be leading a double life).
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I was thinking the same thing....
So sorry that you are going th through this.
Hang in there and walk away with your dignity.
 
That''s tough. It seems pretty clear that he was intending to marry you before - what changed?

People say things they don''t mean when they''re angry, but what he said was SO hurtful. Has he made any move to apologize or to take it back? If not, I think you have his answer as to his real feelings.

And if that is how he really feels, how fair is that to you? Do you really want to stick around for that indefinite period of time?

Either way, calm down, cool off, and try to have a rational conversation. At the very least, he needs to know that those sort of comments are unacceptable.
 
Wow...how very hurtful.
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I would have another talk with him, in a calmer moment, just to clarify some of the questions you must have (did he feel pressured into buying the ring, etc? Has he met someone else?) and confirm his feelings/ambivalence towards moving forward. You did say y''all were both angry the first time you discussed this - so talking it over again may enable you to get some more insight, and make a more informed decision either way.
 
I am so very sorry this is happening to you. Just know that regardless of what he says or does, you have to protect yourself. You can''t make him want to get married but you can control your own destiny. If marriage and family is something you long for, then pick yourself up, tell him that you''re not willing to wait anymore. If he can''t deal, then walk away...but do so knowing you tried everything to make it happen. You will find what you''re looking for, and maybe you''ll find it with him, but if you don''t, you''ll find love and happiness with someone else.

I wish you the best.
 
Date: 6/23/2008 10:09:05 AM
Author: neatfreak
Jobo, I hate to say this, but I agree with the wise posters above me. While I know it would be great if he were just upset, it sure sounds like he is sending you a clear message to me. This isn''t ''one fight''. This is him sending you a message that you don''t seem to want to read.



Let''s look at the two possible scenarios if you walk and I think you''ll realize they aren''t that bad.


1. You walk, and he doesn''t come after you. This sucks, but then at least you know his true colors and you can move on to bigger and better things/.


2. You walk, and he realizes that he DOES really want you and he comes back really ready to make the commitment to you. (And don''t let him back if he''s just talking the talk, he needs to walk the walk!).


Neither thing is really that scary, and BOTH are very very good for YOU in the long run. And YOU are what is truly important here.


Big hugs honey...things will look up I promise.
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ditto. It doesn''t sound like it''s just one argument, he''s told you how he is thinking and now the ball is in your court. Personally after hearing that if he was inclined to get married he would do, that would make me definitely think twice about things. I''m really sorry but at least he''s telling you now.
 
Date: 6/23/2008 12:59:58 PM
Author: Sha
Wow...how very hurtful.
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I would have another talk with him, in a calmer moment, just to clarify some of the questions you must have (did he feel pressured into buying the ring, etc? Has he met someone else?) and confirm his feelings/ambivalence towards moving forward. You did say y''all were both angry the first time you discussed this - so talking it over again may enable you to get some more insight, and make a more informed decision either way.
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This seems to be a wise middle ground. Perhaps there is a total misunderstanding of either a) the original intent, or, b) what the latest argument was really about.

Give him a chance to explain, and for you to *hear* what he''s saying in a calm environment.

THEN you will have your answer.

What if you took off based on a misunderstanding? It''s worth taking the time to clear it up.
 
Sweetie I''m sorry but I think you should start thinking about leaving. If you can''t break-up with him officially at least move out of the current place that you share and get your own place.

Honestly, he all but told you he does not see himself with you. I think back when he purchased the ring you were pressuring him and he did cave but he managed to hold onto control of the situation by deciding to give you the ring when he was ready to. If he was even remotely serious about your relationship he would have been open to having a discussion about relocating your life from two places into one. A man who is on the same page as you with ANYTHING related to your future is willing to discuss it and when he needs to make a move, the move is made.

I think it''s time for you to make YOUR move and at least detach yourself for a bit. See if that gives him a wakeup call and cut your losses if he doesn''t.

My first stop would be the bank - take out whatever money is yours and open a new checking account for your own use. Then I''d take my fancy new checks and start looking for an apartment to rent.
 
Gosh, Jobo, you must be really hurt and confused at the moment. I hope it's okay, but I'd like to highlight some of what you wrote that seemed contradictory (perhaps subconsciously?) because sometimes seeing our own words pointed back to us can be illuminating:


Date: 6/22/2008 9:56:43 PM
Author:Jobo


I have been on this forum before, but my story up until this point is that I (thought) I had a wonderful boyfriend of two years, we had actively discussed marriage and kids, where we want to live in the future, we have a joint spendings bank account for holidays and rent? and also a joint bank savings account that we are using to save up for our house. In March this year after much research (from me) he bought me a gorgeous 1.05 RB E SI1 Diamond in a Dvatche setting.

(...)
While we live together, he works away monday to friday and drives home every fri afternoon and back again on monday (4hrs each way). So our plan was to save our money and get a job in the same town and get married as soon as our finances/careers would allow it.


Anyway, I have been feeling increasingly unhappy with this holding pattern (as I like to call it) and have put a little bit of pressure on him to commit to a date when we would be likely to live together or he thinks we would have saved enough or as I am turning 30 soon, should we plan for me to give up work and have kids while he is still in his current employment (as he doesn't pay rent)
Click to expand...

It might be worthwhile to point out that (1) in your description, you have said the contradictory "while we live together" and "pressure on him to commit to a date when we would be likely to live together", as well as (2) the contradictory, "we have a joint spendings bank account for holidays and rent" as well as "he doesn't pay rent". I don't know, but might a close read of your own words perhaps be pointing out that you've been seeing the evidence of one thing but convincing yourself of an alternative explanation (i.e. he's paying rent but he's not paying rent, you live together but you don't live together) for some time now?
 
fleur-de-lis it sounds like what she means is that they have a place that they share on the weekends, and he pays half the rent for that, but Mon-Fri, he commutes somewhere else and stays there for a week, and the place he sleeps while he''s away at work is rent free, so the OP was hoping that they could move in together in a place where they would spend 7 days a week together, perhaps nearer to his job.

I don''t know I misunderstood, but that makes perfect sense to me.
 
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