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I think OP was saying that they sort of live together on the weekends, but he stays closer to his work M-F. She would like them to have a place closer to his work where they live together the entire week?
 
A mere three months have passed since he bought a ring? Three months ago he bought a ring, let you know he had it, hasn't proposed yet, and now says he may not propose??????

And here you are. Another LIW, living with your BF, sharing bank accounts.


This is what I would do: While Mr. I'm Confused is away M-F working, I would empty my portion of the bank accounts and get my own. And I would get my own digs. And I would get a new life that does not include him.

But that's me. You probably think you can salvage this relationship.
 
Date: 6/23/2008 4:05:37 PM
Author: HollyS
A mere three months have passed since he bought a ring? Three months ago he bought a ring, let you know he had it, hasn''t proposed yet, and now says he may not propose??????

And here you are. Another LIW, living with your BF, sharing bank accounts.


This is what I would do: While Mr. I''m Confused is away M-F working, I would empty my portion of the bank accounts and get my own. And I would get my own digs. And I would get a new life that does not include him.

But that''s me. You probably think you can salvage this relationship.
I 100% agree! Life''s too short! Good luck!
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Wow, what a thing to spring on you.

I''m with the people who say that he told you how he feels, now it''s up to you how you act on this information. Best of luck!
 
Four years ago my ex bought a ring and held onto it for two years. I bought all his excuses because he''s the one who showed no signs of stopping. Then he waited and waited. That made me insecure. When I''d ask him about it, he''d get upset and somehow make it sound like my fault. Then the different excuses for not wanting to get married: the money, the being the center of attention, establishing his career, buying a house, on and on. I always wondered at ages 28 and 29 why we couldn''t just experience those things as an engaged couple or a married couple.

End of the story was, it didn''t matter what the ''truth'' was. He was telling me he wasn''t ready and it took me two years to not only hear him but listen.
 
I can''t imagine how hard this is for you...I agree with the others. You need to walk away.
 
Thank you all so much for your well wishes and hugs! I am going through a tough time at the moment and its horrible.

Wow, I have read a heap of these forums never thinking I would never have my own problem and the support is wonderful (if not quite what I want to hear at times).

Independant Girl - In response to your points. I did wonder if he was seeing someone else and I have actually approached him in a non confrontational way and asked him if this was the case. He actually said no, and when I asked would he tell me if he was, he said yes. Because I think he even believes at that point its too much effort to maintain two lives.

What makes things really hard to accept from him now, is that he has very very strong values and principles. In the begining of our relationship, he was the first one to say I love you, he was the first one to bring up marriage, we have always had a very open and honest relationship.

We do have two very different styles though. I am a ''talker'' and he is a quiet introvert (he''s an engineer). And I find in ANY argument that we have together the minute I start putting pressure on him or raise my voice he puts his walls up and refuses to communicate.

fluer-de-lis, just to clarify our living arrangements, we defintately live together. (I have complained to him before that he comes home and messes up MY house and he gets very angry that I do not consider it OUR house and that we DO live together). We used to live together in a capital City and we both chose to come out the more regional areas (we are in australia) because we can both earn a lot of money (living apart for a while) to set ourselves up.

The funny thing is we used to debate with each other - he wanted a 3 year plan (earn the money and get back to the city, buy our house etc etc) and I always said I wanted a 5 year plan -hold out and earn heaps more money.

But now, maybe I have changed?? I think my biological clock has kicked in and suddenly I am wanting more than just an empty house monday to friday!!

Even when we bought the engagment ring, he was very cagey about when he was going to give it to me. He told me ''he had a plan''. And we have had wonderful talks about what we are going to engrave on our rings. But he has never given me a hint about the date from the start and I think I may have ''set my own timeline'' in that regard.

I think he really had no idea when he was going to give it to me, but was waiting for the right job opportunity or til we had saved enough or when he was sick of being on his own??

When we had the argument and he said that he doesn''t know when we are going to end up together or IF, I repeated his words back to him the next day (when we had slightly calmed down) and he scrinkled his face up and said..I didn''t mean it like that! But there are no guarantees!

Could it be that I am just dealing with someone who has real problems communicating, is a realist, and a bit of a prick who doesn''t know about hurting peoples feelings?
 
I still think that you should try to talk to him again just to be sure his comments were not out of anger. While his comments seemed clear, we can only speculate what his really thinking. He is the only one who knows for sure. There is a a good chance he did mean he said but you never know unless you talk to him again. I do agree with you, one argument does not necessarily mean you should end the relationship, and if I were in your situation I would wait to have ONE MORE talk with him. I wouldn''t want to walk away and then realize I made a huge mistake.

Bottom line: It very well may be time to end the relationship. The realization that he is going to lose you could make him decide that you are the one. Or this could be next step to finding the man you really are going to marry (assuming it is not your current BF.

GOOD LUCK!
 
The thing that bothered me the most about your story was when he said "If I had the inclination to marry you, I would have asked you already."

Ok, people fight. They say stupid sh*+. But this was very harsh. When BF and I fight (let me tell you, we can get into it!) things we don't necessarily mean will come out--we may mean them in the context of the argument but not in general, everyday life. I will tell you this though--the second he were to tell me that he may not want to end up with me, I would see a red flag and I would immediately start mentally figuring out what I am taking with me to my new home...the one without him. Something like a fellow PSer did not too long ago.

It seems (I may be wrong, we may all be wrong) his words and actions are his way of telling you something w/out really telling you in a way that will cause permanent damage--for the simple reason that it happened in a fight, and he can easily tuck his tail between his legs and retreat. Maybe hes starting to have doubts and doesn't want to hurt you. Whatever the reason, you need to find out and have a plan B.

I encourage you to pay close attention to the signs...The signs his is sending you, not the ones you want to see. He is telling you he doesn't know--that you already know. I am all for giving eachother time to figure things out, because I know first hand how some couples need more time to "know." But, you mentioned being almost 30 and wanting to be married w/ kids. You have time to do all those things but not time to waste. And as hard as it might be to let go, you will be so much better off being 30 and single than being 40 and back at square 1.
 
Date: 6/22/2008 9:56:43 PM
Author:Jobo
Hi LIW

Am sorry to pass on all this info, but I really need to vent before I explode!!

I have been on this forum before, but my story up until this point is that I (thought) I had a wonderful boyfriend of two years, we had actively discussed marriage and kids, where we want to live in the future, we have a joint spendings bank account for holidays and rent and also a joint bank savings account that we are using to save up for our house. In March this year after much research (from me) he bought me a gorgeous 1.05 RB E SI1 Diamond in a Dvatche setting.

In other words, everything was going wonderfully and I thought that a proposal was only a matter of a few short months away.

While we live together, he works away monday to friday and drives home every fri afternoon and back again on monday (4hrs each way). So our plan was to save our money and get a job in the same town and get married as soon as our finances/careers would allow it.

Anyway, I have been feeling increasingly unhappy with this holding pattern (as I like to call it) and have put a little bit of pressure on him to commit to a date when we would be likely to live together or he thinks we would have saved enough or as I am turning 30 soon, should we plan for me to give up work and have kids while he is still in his current employment (as he doesn''t pay rent) and then when I can go back to to work, we buy the big house together. I Need some plan god damit!

Anyway this weekend just been, I really wanted to get some answers out of him so we sat down and spoke and I couldn''t believe what I was hearing..

He told me that...

1. He wasnot able to give me a date when or if we were going to live together, it depends on what happens with work
2. He told me that while marriage is natural progression for our relationship, he does not know when or even IF it may happen and that if he had already had the inclination to marry me he would have asked me already.
3. He got angry at me that I had EXPECTATIONS and that I had already chosen the flowers I wanted and had already picked the date etc etc.

Can I just say that my world was crushed to hear these hurtful, spiteful comments!

Don''t get me wrong, I hadn''t picked the date, I had just mentioned that the flowers I want are in season at that time of the year. I hadn''t organised anything and I hadn''t booked a church . NOTHING!

And when I told him that we had sat on our front porch last year and I asked him if we should plan a holiday this year, his response was ''Maybe we should get married''.

When I mentioned this to him, he said ''Maybe I shouldn''t have said that''!

So what do I do?? At this point I just want to hate him and wonder what has made him change his mind?

Or maybe its as simple as he has just got cold feet?

Anyone have any ideas?
Everything he wrote seemed like the normal thing that men will say to their women when they are trying to buy themselves more time except for what I have highlighted above. What he is basically saying is that if he really wanted to marry you, he would have done it already.

It''s one thing to have a guy that is going through his own inner "conflict" (for lack of a better word) and coming to terms with the idea of marriage. These men usually know that they want to spend their lives with their respective women but are still getting passed going from bachelor to husband. That''s a normal process.

But for him to flat out say that if he wanted to marry you he would have done it already goes FAR beyond any cold feet. You know him better than anyone else so it is possible that he got mean as a defense mechanism...but I wouldn''t take those words lightely.

I wish you luck.
 
Date: 6/23/2008 6:29:20 PM
Author: Jobo

Could it be that I am just dealing with someone who has real problems communicating, is a realist, and a bit of a prick who doesn''t know about hurting peoples feelings?
Eh? I didn''t know you were dealing with MY husband.
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I''ve told this story a few times, but I''ll tell you again for your benefit. My husband (who coincidently is an Aussie too) also told me he loved me first. He just seemed to adore me. Seemed to have NO qualms about packing up his life in Oz to move here so we could start our life together. Then one day I got a call...he told me he couldn''t do it. That he loved his job and his friends and they were more important to him than the possibility of an "us" He couldn''t move to the U.S. I was shocked, as being the cynic that I am, I had FINALLY given myself hope that this was IT.

After a night and day of crying over at a friend''s, TGuy and I spoke again on the phone (he had told me he was going to call and check up on me). Essentially I told him thanks for being honest, wished him luck, and said I''d moving on since he wasn''t moving here. I needed to have some dignity...as well as the fact that you really *can''t* make someone move across an ocean for you (and neither can you make someone marry you).

As it turned out, it was cold feet. He changed his mind and now we are married. But would it REALLY have been if I had cried and begged and pleaded? Hm...I have to wonder. I guess he had told his friends what he told me and they all told him he was a wanker and they wouldn''t be around for him forever and he would be stupid to give me up.
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The moral of the story is I didn''t tell him what I did with the hopes that that his friends would come to my rescue and he would change his mind...I told him what I did because I took what he said at face value and there really was NO CHOICE for me but to MOVE ON.

Move on, gally...move on.
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It sounds like you''re reading everyone''s posts but you''re just not listening to what they''re saying. You have to "HEAR" what these girls are telling you. Almost all of them have said, pack up and make a statment. If he chases then maybe you''ll get what you want, and if he doesn''t then you''ll get you real answer.

You''re trying to make excuses for him. You will learn something from every one of these posts, if you take them to heart. Be strong and stand up to him. For christ''s sake, he said "IF" on more than one occassion for a reason, He''s probably telling you how he feels but also trying not to hurt you. And if he''s not and is just saying those things to get under your skin, maybe you should think about whether this guy is actually worth those kind of fights. It sounds kind of childish. Only you can truely know if you ''mistook" the way he said IF.

Best of luck. I''m very sorry for your situation.
 
Date: 6/23/2008 6:29:20 PM
Author: Jobo
Thank you all so much for your well wishes and hugs! I am going through a tough time at the moment and its horrible.

When we had the argument and he said that he doesn't know when we are going to end up together or IF, I repeated his words back to him the next day (when we had slightly calmed down) and he scrinkled his face up and said..I didn't mean it like that! But there are no guarantees!

Could it be that I am just dealing with someone who has real problems communicating, is a realist, and a bit of a prick who doesn't know about hurting peoples feelings?
See, I would REALLY take issue with that. There are no guarantees? Excuse me? You have every right to know whether this will be heading towards marriage or not -- particularly considering that he has already bought a ring and gotten your hopes up. He doesn't have to say when, exactly, or give you the details. But I think it's unreasonable for him to not even give you a solid answer of 'yes, I intend to marry you' or 'no, I do not see us getting married in the future'. You're both old enough & have been together long enough for him to know that much, IMO.

As it stands right now, it almost sounds like he's stringing you along frankly. I hate to be blunt, but that's how it seems. He doesn't want to commit, nor does he even want to 'commit to commit' in the future. But instead, he wants you to stick around and wait based on what may or may not happen in the future.
 
SO OP what happened?!?!
 
I really think this should be talked over in a rational manner before OP takes the general consensus and packs up and leaves.

I think it''s entirely possible (given the future talk and ring purchase) that OP''s BF may simply suffer from the same affliction that I do: foot-in-mouth syndrome. He may simply be - and I say this with the utmost fondness - a bit of an idiot. I am constantly saying stupid things in my relationship and I''m lucky that my FI takes the time to get to what I really meant.

OP, I hope things have been clarified for you - one way or another!
 
Well.. I had THE chat with him last night. I was very calm (didn''t cry) and quite rational.

I started of by saying that I didn''t want to fight anymore, and that I had spent all of this time telling him what I wanted, so why didn''t he tell me what HE wanted.
(As I have said before, he has terrible communication skills...lots of pauses...me having to be very calm and paitent...)

In a nutshell, his response was that our relationship wasn''t fun anymore. He said I am always hounding him about marrriage, or living togeher or when are we going to do our next step and this was basically driving him nuts and that we always seemed to be unhappy.

I asked him what he wanted then and why did he buy me the rings and why did we have all these discussions about marriage (he agreed two weeks ago to go to a wedding convention with me in the next month or so) and he said that all along everything he did was to keep me happy. He said if I was happy the relationship was happy.

Then I pointedly asked him "Did you only buy the rings to keep me happy"? and he said... not totally.

I did tell him that my recent behavoiour (which I really don''t think was too over the top) was due to me picking up on his reluctance to commit and was turning me into a very insecure, unhappy, hurt and ANGRY girl and that was why I was probably not the loving person that I used to be.

I also told him that while I had thought about what flowers I wanted and when they were in season, that didn''t actually lock anything in and I would be willing to have it anytime that worked out. He was happy about that and thought that we should discuss that sort of stuff when we had actually done the engagement thing. Which I guess is fair enough (I will just keep those sorts of chats to my mum and my girlfriends)

Anyway, I then asked him where we go from here? I said do you want me to back of on the commitment issues for a while and we pick up where we were and get back to loving each other or do I take my money out of our joint bank account, we seperate our assets, take a big step back and reassess what we want (believe it or not I have been taking on board LIW comments)

He said no, I think we owe it to ourselves to try and make it work. And I did get out of him that was sure that we were going in the right place.

His biggest comment is that we should be enjoying our life together (he was only working away for the benefit of US) and then marriage will come up at the right time. He said we shouldn''t just be doing it to tick off boxes or because we were a certain age.

While that hurt a little (cause I am certainly in the right place and know what I want) but I guess I just have to wait for him.

So LIW all is not lost!! While I do think it unfair that I actually had to get to this point after he had led me up the garden path. And I do feel the burden of responsibility for our relationship. I have certainly learnt a few things. No longer will my life revolve around our relationship. Nor will I have my blinkers on thinking that I have no other options.

x
 
Jobo - I''m glad to hear that the two of you talked. I think at this point he just felt pressured, but I also am the type of gal who feels that if he truly knows you are the one for him then he shouldn''t have such a problem with the moving in together part at LEAST. That leaves you in constant limbo about whether to be settled where you are or not and that isn''t fair. I think at this point you really need to keep an eye on how the two of you get along after this. Take time to assess whether a) he really is the one you want to be married to forever and b) whether you really SHOULD be waiting for him much longer....
 
It's great that you talked and are on the same page.

I don't think I could be with someone who had communication difficulities, reluctantly did things to keep me happy, and then got mad at me because he didn't speak up and express his feelings. I hope he has learned from this and will now express himself better.
 
Date: 6/24/2008 5:41:37 PM
Author: Jobo

Then I pointedly asked him ''Did you only buy the rings to keep me happy''? and he said... not totally.
That''s "boy speak" for "ummm, yeah, and I hoped it would shut you up. I feel bummed that it only increased your engagement talk".

I read what you wrote and I could clearly see a guy who thought by giving in on one thing, he was buying himself time. Once he realized it only upped the reality in your mind, he really wished he could forget all about it. He doesn''t want to hear anything at all about a future together. He interprets any attempt to discuss commitments or plans as you not being fun.
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In other words, the only way you are "fun" for him is on his terms. You are supposed to ignore any of your own hopes and desires. If you didn''t get that from the convo, then you just aren''t listening to him.
 
I am going to tell you EXACTLY what I would tell a good friend of mine were she in the same situation. No sugar-coating.

His new comments speak even louder and more clearly:

1) He doesn''t want to lose you
2) He doesn''t want you to be ''difficult''
3) He sure as heck doesn''t want to marry you
4) He hopes he can have everything his way now.

Could he have said this any more clearly? HE DOESN''T WANT TO MARRY YOU. And do you really think you can be happy suppressing all of your hopes and dreams so that you don''t ''bother'' him?

Girl, I hate to say it, but this is a complete trainwreck.

If what you want is marriage & a family, it is not going to happen with this guy. And if it does, it''s not going to be because he wants it, it''s going to be because you want it. And then you get to spend the rest of your life (if you manage to make it work) with a guy who is not mature enough to be honest with you (that ring was a LIE! he said so! listen to him!), and who can''t communicate effectively.

Buying that ring was manipulative. He was trying to con you into shutting up.

Please, think carefully about the life that lies ahead of you now, trying not to say what you want for fear of ''bothering'' him, becoming someone you don''t like...

With your new post about the conversation, I''m even more convinced that, if you have dignity and wisdom, you have GOT to walk. You don''t want the same things from each other. Only misery awaits.

Train.Wreck.
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Honey...I have to agree with Indy...I don''t like this new conversation either...

Basically he is getting EXACTLY WHAT HE WANTS. You agreed to be quiet about marriage AND he doesn''t have to propose! Win win for him. Not so much for you. Are you REALLY getting anything YOU want out of this? Doesn''t sound like a compromise to me...
 
Uh huh...this is ALL your fault for wanting marriage. You destroyed your relationship and made yourself unmarriageable by wanting marriage. Is that what he is saying?
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I have to say though...if he REALLY did buy the ring to shut you up, he''s stupid too. What kind of ploy is that?
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You said, "While that hurt a little (cause I am certainly in the right place and know what I want) but I guess I just have to wait for him."

You don''t HAVE to wait for anyone. You''re free to go and save yourself some dignity. You can REALLy have your life "not revolve around your relationship" and you can indeed have "other options" IF you walk away.
 
Ditto to Indy and neatfreak. What about what YOU want? You want to be married. Now. He doesn''t. I don''t think you have to get married just because you''re 30, but that''s what you want, and you''ve been dating long enough for both of you to have your minds made up. His mind seems to be made up-he doesn''t want to marry you.

And you didn''t really follow the advice given here-you asked HIM what he wanted YOU to do. Not quite the same as saying "Okay, I''m not willing to wait for you to decide that I''m right for you after you already bought me a ring-I''m going to separate our bank accounts and do my own thing now. Good luck and buh-bye."

You need to be honest with yourself and with him. You want to get married now. You''re most likely not going to be happy staying in this holding pattern. It seems clear he has no desire to marry you and I just couldn''t stay in a relationship where the guy I was with didn''t feel the same way about me that I felt about him.
 
I''ve been following this thread from the beginning and I was hesitant to chime in because I was afraid anything I said would be too harsh...And, well, maybe he was just having a bad day and said something stupid (we are ALL guilty of that, once in awhile!)

But after what you just revealed about your latest conversation, I think the only response I could possibly have is: "Walk, don''t run...Get your money out of the bank and move out...Now!"

This is a guy who bought you an engagement ring. A big, serious act that most guys don''t take very lightly. It''s not something a man usually does just to calm a GF down, or on a whim, or because he *thinks* he wants to get married. I''d say if you polled most men, they''d tell you when they bought that ring they were certain that commitment is exactly what they wanted.

But now he has turned into a guy who is waffling on the commitment at best and toying with your emotions at worst.

This is not cold feet. This is not because he''s ''not having fun''. This is because he does not want to get married. Not now, anyway.

He did a little appeasing with that talk, that''s all. He got you to stop discussing the thing you want most, yet his life will remain exactly the same...without a care in the world as to how you are feeling.

Basically he''s got you right where he wants you--waiting around for him to return at the end of the week, still there and strung along until he decides the relationship is "fun" again. In return, you get nothing but a guy who discourages any talk of your future and has dashed your hopes and dreams (unrepentantly, it seems).

What he has shown you is really a terrible act of betrayal. To buy a woman an engagement ring and then say the things he did to you is downright mean. Honestly, I wouldn''t be able to live with that and I don''t think any woman should subject herself to a man who disregards her like this.

I''m sorry to say, I think you should leave. Let him realize that you are *not* going to be there waiting. I believe if there is any hope for you guys, this is the only way to salvage it. See how ''fun'' it is for him not to have you around anymore and go from there.

Good luck.
 
Oh dear, I think this man is/has been very bad for your self-esteem.

Why do you want to be with someone who isn't thrilled to be with you?

You may feel better for a week or so, but how will you feel in 6 months or a year when you are still waiting? Are you going to sit around too scared to say anything because it will make you 'not fun to be with'?

If he was acting hurt and unhappy, wouldn't you have taken steps to find out why and do something about it? If you really love someone and want to be with them, nothing that affects their happiness should be ignored or brushed aside.

I'm afraid I agree with Indy. He has told you loud and clear by insinuation. He hasn't had the guts or the balls to tell you straight.

ETA: Leaving a relationship feels like hell at the time, but 3 months down the line you will wonder what took you so long. There are plenty of girls on PS to prove that.
 
Listen to what he has said. The very words from his lips.

"Yes. I bought the ring to shut you up."

"If I wanted to marry you, I would have proposed by now."

"I don''t know where this is going, if we will end up together."

I may be paraphrasing a bit, but these are the words you wrote. The words you said he said.



I know what I would do; no question in my mind. But here you are, still thinking "I can make this work".
 
I''m glad you got some further clarification on his feelings.

The danger is, though, as others have said, that you will end up waiting and waiting for him....and he might never be ready. He''s being very noncommittal about the future -e.g ''marriage will come at the right time'' - when will that be? 10 years? what if he never feels the time is right? So it''s still pretty risky for you - especially since you know you want marriage and children someday.
 
I know more engeneers than you would believe. He isn't going to marry you. They don't hint, they don't communicate well. But yours did, he said he didn't want to marry you. The only straight statement he has given you and you ignore it.

Why are you staying? He is making you miserable, you are making him miserable and you are setting yourself up to do this over and over and over. you aren't pressuring him, he is conning you, even if not on purpose.

Read about some of the women here, how many years they waited, how much pain they went through how in the end they had to walk away and wished they had done it so much earlier.

I can't remember who said it, but "you are not a hard decision". The idea of getting married should make your BF happy because he is getting to spend the rest of his life woth you. If it is a joy, not a burden, then you have a problem.
 
Awww Jobo...I''m sorry but I have to say I agree with the overwheming majority here. I''ve been in your boat (although not led on quite as badly as you have been) and I too tried to hang on, tried to see the good, continually turned a blind eye to the facts. And I wish to GOD I hadn''t. I wish I had listened to my friends who - like all these PSers are telling you to walk away.
A relationship is a two way street yet he seems to be on a one way road all for himself.
All he did in your last convo was feed you another dose of BS in my mind!
You will have a broken heart and you will feel horrible and weak....but time will heal and each week you will feel a little better than the week before and when you''re ready you will be open to dating again and you''ll find a man who meets all of your needs who appreciates you for who you are! And you''ll thank yourself.
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You can do it.
 
Date: 6/24/2008 7:20:20 PM
Author: beebrisk

But after what you just revealed about your latest conversation, I think the only response I could possibly have is: ''Walk, don''t run...Get your money out of the bank and move out...Now!"

Sorry...I meant to say "RUN, don''t walk". I''m sure you know what I meant but I wanted to clarify. And again, wish you strength and good luck.
 
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