Canadian Diamond Options

[mugatu300]

Hello all, I am dead set on purchasing a Canadian diamond for our engagement ring since Canada holds sentimental value. There is a local cutter in my hometown who has Canadian diamonds. I would prefer to purchase from this location because they are cut in my hometown and add to the great story behind the ring. The three options are below. I want to give her the perfect cut diamond (hearts and arrows type). Are any of these contenders? Which is best? GIA certs are attached as well. Thank you kindly in advance.

1.2, H, VS2, Excellent Cut, $9000 USD, GIA: 2427375772


1.33, H, SI1 (eye clean), Excellent Cut, $10500, GIA: 2327194326


1.5, H, SI2 (eye clean), Very Good Cut, $11000 USD, GIA: 2376836926

 

[Kim N]

Can you get a magnified photo/video and Ideal-Scope image of each of them?

 

[mugatu300]

Unfortunately I cannot. I guess I'm strictly asking off the specs for now.

 

[lovedogs]

We can't speak to much without any images. However, the 3rd stone can be easily ruled out because it's out of all the recommended ranges.

For the first 2 it's hard to say, but neither is a completely "Safe" bet in terms of being ideal (especially without pictures).

 

[Kim N]

Unfortunately I cannot. I guess I'm strictly asking off the specs for now.

Strictly from the specs I prefer the 1.2. You can enter the specs into the HCA (you get 3 free uses), but we really do need an Ideal-Scope or ASET image to help you more.

Holloway Cut Advisor | HCA Tool

The HCA Tool uses data from a round brilliant diamond to produce a score that can help you make an estimate regarding the cut quality. Use it here.

www.pricescope.com

 

[mugatu300]

Strictly from the specs I prefer the 1.2. You can enter the specs into the HCA (you get 3 free uses), but we really do need an Ideal-Scope or ASET image to help you more.

Holloway Cut Advisor | HCA Tool

The HCA Tool uses data from a round brilliant diamond to produce a score that can help you make an estimate regarding the cut quality. Use it here.

www.pricescope.com

Ok Thank you. And are Ideal-Scope/ASET something a local jeweler can usually provide me with? Or is this more likely I'll have to buy my own Ideal-Scope?

 

[kenny]

FWIW, in original order:

 

[tyty333]

Thanks @kenny

Agree, none of them are safe without advanced images (idealscope, aset, etc)

 

[Kim N]

Ok Thank you. And are Ideal-Scope/ASET something a local jeweler can usually provide me with? Or is this more likely I'll have to buy my own Ideal-Scope?

Some jewelers will have one, but most likely you'll have to buy one of your own.

ASET Scope

datlas.com

Handheld ASET®

The handheld ASET is easy to use on loose or mounted diamonds, and is convenient for travel. Learn more at AmericanGemSociety.org.

www.americangemsociety.org

 

[mugatu300]

Some jewelers will have one, but most likely you'll have to buy one of your own.

ASET Scope

datlas.com

Handheld ASET®

The handheld ASET is easy to use on loose or mounted diamonds, and is convenient for travel. Learn more at AmericanGemSociety.org.

www.americangemsociety.org

And do you recommend one over the other? I've read that Idealscope is easier to use.

 

[Kim N]

And do you recommend one over the other? I've read that Idealscope is easier to use.

Ideal-Scope may be a bit easier to use, but ASET scopes aren't too difficult, and they provide additional info over an Ideal-Scope. Also, if you branch out into fancy shapes, an ASET scope is what you'd want.

 

[mugatu300]

Ideal-Scope may be a bit easier to use, but ASET scopes aren't too difficult, and they provide additional info over an Ideal-Scope. Also, if you branch out into fancy shapes, an ASET scope is what you'd want.

If I am going with round, which would you recommend?

Also, would you trust the documentation that states the diamond is of Canadian origin (i.e. Canadamark)? Or do you think its possible that origin can be falsified when these stones are cut abroad? I know most Canadian rough is cut in India

 

[Kim N]

If I am going with round, which would you recommend?

Also, would you trust the documentation that states the diamond is of Canadian origin (i.e. Canadamark)? Or do you think its possible that origin can be falsified when these stones are cut abroad? I know most Canadian rough is cut in India

I think an Ideal-Scope would be just fine for a round and is a bit cheaper.

Beginner Ideal-Scope

datlas.com

This thread discusses authenticating your diamond to ensure the origin is as stated.

Consumer warning on Authenticating Canadian Diamonds

During the normal cause of our business it has come to our attention that there are possibly misleading certificates of Canadian origin in circulation. What I mean by misleading C of O is certificates created by the vendors (not the mines or local government) stating diamonds are of Canadian...

www.pricescope.com

 

[Karl_K]

If that's a representative sample of that suppliers diamonds then there is no hope.
Report ending in 926:
there is no excuse for good symmetry in newly cut diamonds. Clarity is a hot mess.

report 326:
The cut is just hopeless on this one.

report 772:
The upper girdle facets at 55% is way to long for this combo it should be 45%. Probably the best cut of the 3 regardless, but that is not saying much.
Lot going on for vs2 clarity.

This lot of 3 is hopeless.

 

[mugatu300]

If that's a representative sample of that suppliers diamonds then there is no hope.
Report ending in 926:
there is no excuse for good symmetry in newly cut diamonds. Clarity is a hot mess.

report 326:
The cut is just hopeless on this one.

report 772:
The upper girdle facets at 55% is way to long for this combo it should be 45%. Probably the best cut of the 3 regardless, but that is not saying much.
Lot going on for vs2 clarity.

This lot of 3 is hopeless.

Thank you for the honest advice. The honesty is appreciated

 

[mugatu300]

I wanted to ask for some additional advice in securing a stone that I know 110% is genuinely Canadian.

Of the big online retailers, only BrilliantEarth offers Canadian diamonds but they have yet to provide me with any sample documentation that proves this origin.

There are some other online retailers who have CanadaMark diamonds but I've read that sometimes those diamonds could be falsified.

I've gone through the list of Canadian Diamond Code of Conduct Signatory Members but not many of them have loose stones on their websites and I'm also not sure of the tax implications of purchasing a stone from a Canadian store when I live in the states.

I've also seen Government Certified Canadian Diamond™ (https://www.iti.gov.nt.ca/en/services/government-certified-canadian-diamond™) but not sure what this is.

Finally, there are a few local stores (see above lol) that cut Canadian rough on site (due to our proximity to Toronto), but similar to BrilliantEarth, I'm not sure how well the documentation will back up their claims of Canadian origin.

Do you have any suggestions for me? Like I said, having a Canadian stone is very important to us.

 

[DejaWiz]

I wanted to ask for some additional advice in securing a stone that I know 110% is genuinely Canadian.

Of the big online retailers, only BrilliantEarth offers Canadian diamonds but they have yet to provide me with any sample documentation that proves this origin.

There are some other online retailers who have CanadaMark diamonds but I've read that sometimes those diamonds could be falsified.

I've gone through the list of Canadian Diamond Code of Conduct Signatory Members but not many of them have loose stones on their websites and I'm also not sure of the tax implications of purchasing a stone from a Canadian store when I live in the states.

I've also seen Government Certified Canadian Diamond™ (https://www.iti.gov.nt.ca/en/services/government-certified-canadian-diamond™) but not sure what this is.

Finally, there are a few local stores (see above lol) that cut Canadian rough on site (due to our proximity to Toronto), but similar to BrilliantEarth, I'm not sure how well the documentation will back up their claims of Canadian origin.

Do you have any suggestions for me? Like I said, having a Canadian stone is very important to us.

You may be able to go straight to the source for diamond verification:

Your Diamond – CanadaMark

www.canadamark.com

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

It sounds like the origin is very important to you. If you trust your local dealer, why not pick out the one that's prettiest to your eye and go with it? You can always upgrade in the future. There's great advice here about viewing it in all different lighting environments, important to read.
You picked a very tough board of examiners here, they have the highest standards, the equal of any expert you'll ever find. And there are a lot of people walking around with diamonds they find beautiful and meaningful that are of a quality that would be rejected out of hand here. I'm certainly one of them.

If you want another viewpoint, Google Leon Mege. He has quite the blog.

 

[lovedogs]

I think if origin is this important, you may end up sacrificing cut. Most of us would caution against that, but of course you need to do what is right for you

 

[mugatu300]

I am flexible on intended proposal date so I am willing to wait for the perfect stone. I dont want to sacrifice on cut but most important to me is a diamond that 110% I know is Canadian mined.

BrilliantEarth has yet to provide me any information that will confirm origin 110% so unfortunately I'm starting to lose a bit of hope with them even tho they probably have the best selection. They just keep mentioning "blockchain vault" but provide no real sample documentation.

CanadaMark is good but I'm going to definitely pay a premium because none of the big websites carry them and neither do any local stores. I've found some stores in NYC and Canada carry them tho, although not sure of tax implications of buying a stone in Canada if I'm in states.

Canada Code of Conduct certified retailers are all in Canada so again not sure on tax implications and if that would make it financially prohibitive for me.

Canadian Government Certified Diamond- no idea what this is and their website isn't very informative (no list of retailers)

Finally the local option, but similar to BrilliantEarth its TBD on the supporting documentation. I have more faith in them than BrilliantEarth at this point. I've been contacting BE for weeks to no avail.

Assuming BrilliantEarth never provides me any real evidence, I'm assuming I either have to go CanadaMark or local option correct? Do you guys have any other recommendations?

Thank you again so much. Your help is very much appreciated.

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

Have you contacted this company?

Canadian Diamonds | Wholesale Dealer & Jewelry Manufacturer

We are a Canadian diamond dealer and jewelry manufacturer, offering wholesale prices for quality Canadian, AGS ideal cut, GIA and HRD certified diamonds.

www.canadadiamonds.com

 

[DejaWiz]

Is BrilliantEarth able to provide the CM info for any of their blockchain-enabled diamonds?

Brilliant Earth

Browse our collection of blockchain enabled diamonds that define next-generation standards in the jewelry industry.

www.brilliantearth.com

 

[mugatu300]

Have you contacted this company?

Canadian Diamonds | Wholesale Dealer & Jewelry Manufacturer

We are a Canadian diamond dealer and jewelry manufacturer, offering wholesale prices for quality Canadian, AGS ideal cut, GIA and HRD certified diamonds.

www.canadadiamonds.com

Thank you I just contacted them and are waiting to hear back. They are located in Vancouver so again not sure on tax/duty implications if I'm in the US

 

[mugatu300]

Is BrilliantEarth able to provide the CM info for any of their blockchain-enabled diamonds?

Brilliant Earth

Browse our collection of blockchain enabled diamonds that define next-generation standards in the jewelry industry.

www.brilliantearth.com

I keep asking them for sample documentation and they just say that when you purchase blockchain diamond you will get link to the "Everledger blockchain vault" where you can see all the information about your diamond. I'm still waiting for them to provide me more details but I dont have much hope.

 

[kenny]

Me thinks you want something that does not exist.
Diamonds from Canada certainly do exist.
But absolute certainty the stone in your ring really was mined and polished in Canada requires you personally to have been present when it was pulled out of the ground.
Then you'd have to ride in the huge truck that carried the diamond-containing dirt to the processing facility.
Then you'd have to never let that dirt out of your sight 24/7 till the diamond was sifted from the dirt.
Then you'd have to personally follow the rough diamond being moved to the polishing facility.

... you get the idea.
Oh, and you could never sleep because then someone could do a swaparoo and you'd lose your 100% certainty.

So, if you want a Canadian diamond you're going to have to just trust someone.
And you're going to have to accept there is a possibility, however remote, that it is not from Canada.

It's that or nothing.

So, I recommend doing your research and picking the seller of Canadian diamonds you feel is most trustworthy.
Buy it, then put the possibility of a swap out of your mind.
Then call it a day and enjoy your Canadian diamond.

We ALL have to trust.
I trust my GIA graded diamond is real and not swapped with another that somehow has the same inclusions that are documented on my GIA grading report.

I trust the ground I'm about to step on will support my weight, and a jet won't fall out of the sky and kill me.

Never trusting will leave us paralyzed.

 

[Karl_K]

Well said Kenny. There is no 110% option.

 

[mugatu300]

Me thinks you want something that does not exist.
Diamonds from Canada certainly do exist.
But absolute certainty the stone in your ring really was mined and polished in Canada requires you personally to have been present when it was pulled out of the ground.
Then you'd have to ride in the huge truck that carried the diamond-containing dirt to the processing facility.
Then you'd have to never let that dirt out of your sight 24/7 till the diamond was sifted from the dirt.
Then you'd have to personally follow the rough diamond being moved to the polishing facility.

... you get the idea.
Oh, and you could never sleep because then someone could do a swaparoo.

So, if you want a Canadian diamond you're going to have to just trust someone.
And you're going to have to accept there is a possibility, however remote, that it is not from Canada.

It's that or nothing.

So, I recommend doing your research and picking the seller of Canadian diamonds you feel is most trustworthy.
Buy it, then put the possibility of a swap out of your mind.
Then call it a day and enjoy your Canadian diamond.

We ALL have to trust.
I trust my GIA graded diamond is real and not swapped with another that somehow has the same inclusions documented on my GIA grading report.

I trust the ground I'm about to step on will support my weight.

Never trusting leaves us paralyzed.

I understand, thats why in my last email I said my best options are probably CanadaMark or local with documentation. I was just getting frustrated with other sellers claiming Canadian but then having no actual proof behind that (i.e. BrilliantEarth). I think its fair to ask for some documentation that substantiates their claims if the whole reason I'm paying a premium is because its Canadian. I just want a document or some evidence I can show my fiance so that I can tell her its Canadian rather than just saying, "oh he told me it was or oh it said it on the website".

 

[kenny]

But why trust the documentation when the diamond it came with could have been swapped

Paranoia can be endless.

 

[mugatu300]

But why trust the documentation when the diamond it came with could have been swapped

Paranoia can be endless.

Lol. But didnt you say at some point I have to have trust? Easier to trust someone that at least has some documentation. At least then I have something physical to show her.

 

[kenny]

You're right.
I give up.
You win.