Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...please

[minousbijoux]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

See I learned something new again! Thank you Chrono. I did not realized that stones work in the print color scheme. I had just assumed (a dangerous word!) That it worked on the RGB scheme. This is do to my unfortunate addiction called CLAP (Christmas Light Addiction Problem) This is one of my other Passionate Hobbies and recently I discovered the world of RGB lighting for christmas lights, thus the assumption.

You know i think I understand the cross over. Both passions, gems and lights are sparkly shiney colored things so I Guess it makes sense!

John

While I will address the serious aspects of this thread in a minute, I just want to say OMG, John, you have nailed it!!! This is who I am! Of course they are like sparkly Xmas lights! As Home Simpson says: "D'oh!"

 

[chrono]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

NKOTB,
I don't think there's an easy or clear cut answer. i think it is easy to become highly suspicious when a person buys stones, then flips them almost right away. The previous cases were different in nature; there were no attempts to sell or advertise their gems but they recommended their close trade friends / partners and mentors almost exclusively, fighting tooth and nail every time the same friends / partners were questioned.

 

[chrono]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Kenny,
Gemstones are not made up of light.
http://www.wildfishgems.com/grading

 

[ChrisA222]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

NKOTB,
I don't think there's an easy or clear cut answer. i think it is easy to become highly suspicious when a person buys stones, then flips them almost right away. The previous cases were different in nature; there were no attempts to sell or advertise their gems but they recommended their close trade friends / partners and mentors almost exclusively, fighting tooth and nail every time the same friends / partners were questioned.

Chrono, Let me give you an example of what happened to me here on PS...

I bought a stone on Pre-Loved some time ago...I hated the stone, just hated it. I did ask the seller if I could return it, but they said no...and they had every right to refuse the return since the ad for the stone said all sales are final. I didn't take that well, and I apologize to the seller for how I dealt with that refusal to return (I was upset, and I acted like a child). Anyways, when I was told that I couldn't return the stone, I listed it almost immediately on PS Pre-Loved, with a link to the new listing I created on DB. Literally two days after I bought it off LT.

I was lucky and I sold the stone, for $50 less than what I paid for it. I considered that a victory since I hated the stone so much. Im sure even the person who sold me the stone would say how upset I was, because of how I acted about it.

Then, I was given some time off from PS for "flipping the stone". I didn't understand then, or now, how that was flipping. I bought the stone, disliked it, and resold it immediately therafter for a loss. I dont see that as acting any differently than anyone else.

Every single stone that I have sold aside from the melee that I mentioned a while ago, has been my own stone that I bought and either was unhappy with, or sold to allow me to upgrade my collection or make a significant purchase. I dont call this flipping, I don't consider myself a trade member, and I would be unhappy to be designated as such.

I dont have any secrets and like I said I am an open book for whomever wants to know what Ive sold, to whom, and what those sales allowed me to purchase. Right now I am on hold from buying any gemstones (I know, Ive said that before, LOL) because I want to focus on setting some stones this year. Im working with a designer now to set two stones...well, at least one (my Rubellite) but im considering having a duplicate setting made for my Tsavorite (in a different metal though).

 

[ForteKitty]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Question: do you have to make money at it to be considered trade?

How would one know if the person in question is making money? Who's going to ask, "hey, how much did you buy the stone for so that I know if you are making a profit or selling at a loss"?

Let's say we don't know. Then are we just going by assumption, one way or the other? I am curious why someone might be considered Trade in Hiding - based purely on volume, or is there an assumption of profit? I don't know anything about any previous stories that are being referred to, so this is just a genuine general question, coming from someone who likes all y'all.

I'm curious too. I have gems I want to sell because I went nuts and collected too many 2 years ago, and I have screenshots of most of them, but not all. If I don't post the screenshots, will people accuse me of the same?

 

[chrono]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Chris,
Let me preface that I am not targeting you nor am I referring to you at any time. I cannot read people's mind so my posts are an attempt to see things from the other side. I am not here to be judge and jury. 99% of pre-loved item sales are final unless explicitly stated. Why? Because they are from a personal collection. The sellers are not in the trade and do not have the time, funds or patience to deal with returns / refunds.

FK,
Sellers should post pictures of their gems when they are up for sale in the appropriate section. It is preferable that those pictures were taken by you, not the original vendor. I'm sorry I don't fully understand your question.

 

[Ella]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Ladies and gentlemen, please keep the conversation civil and on topic here or we will close the thread.

On the subject of flipping or reselling for a profit, members are considered trade to us if they regularly sell items for a profit and/or purchase items with the intent to sell them for profit. It's similar to pornography, you know it when you see it. If we have proof that a user is purchasing items with the intent to resell them from ebay, another seller, etc. and reselling them for a profit, that's a problem and will result in us temporarily or permanently banning someone from the forum.

It is not a problem if a user is selling off their own items, or immediately reselling something for what they paid for it. We generally can find out easily if items are from someone's personal collection from a few years ago or if that person just bought the item and is reselling immediately.

We suggest that if anyone has suspicions or proof that users are reselling new to them items for profit on Preloved or on other websites, you report it to us with proof.

We do not take these accusations lightly, and will not force a member to take a time out or banning them without proof.

In these situations, the truth always comes out eventually if someone is lying to us about their status. Please report any suspicions you have, with any proof you have, and we will deal with it as we always have.

 

[ForteKitty]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Chrono, I thought I was pretty clear? I was referring to all of the above quotes regarding flipping and how to "prove" something was not sold at a profit, hence the mention of screenshots of original listing.

If I want to sell gems from my own collection, will people accuse me of flipping? I have screenshots of the original listing to prove the price is lower than the orignal purchase price for some of them, but not all.

 

[Ella]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Chrono, I thought I was pretty clear?

If I want to sell gems from my own collection, will people accuse me of flipping? I have screenshots of the original listing to prove the price is lower than the orignal purchase price for some of them, but not all.

It is only a problem ForteKitty if we see that you are reselling stones for a profit that were purchased with the intent to resell. We often know this even with older stones as often you would have a SMTB thread to refer to, indicating that the stone was purchased for your own use a while ago.

It becomes an issue if we regularly see items for sale on ebay or from a gem seller, then that exact item showing up with a markup on DB or Preloved. As the community is savvy, usually users recognize items as having been recently sold on another site for less.

 

[LD]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Chrono, I thought I was pretty clear?

If I want to sell gems from my own collection, will people accuse me of flipping? I have screenshots of the original listing to prove the price is lower than the orignal purchase price for some of them, but not all.

Let me give you an example of what I believe is the difference:

If a person:-
1. Buys a stone from a vendor
2. Lists it for resale at a profit on Ebay/Facebook etc., within what would normally be considered the returns period or very shortly after
3. Sells the stone for a profit.

Does this regularly and for many many many gemstones. These gemstones are clearly not intended for a collection. They are intended to sell for profit. I applaud them and if they make a profit at it then great BUT then declare themselves as Trade.

Many posters sell stones from their collections. However typically (and of course there are exceptions with the odd stone here or there where the returns period is missed etc), they have had the stones for a while and had no intention of selling when they bought it. Occasionally posters have a splurge on selling stones that they've had for a few years. That's pretty common but it's not Trade as they didn't buy the stones with this intention.

So if you were to list your stones FK for sale, I don't see why this would be considered Trade.

Being Trade on here is restrictive in terms on what can be said or commented on. I don't know the full rules but I do know it's a fine line for Trade Members and they have to be very careful about what they post. I believe that's why there have been examples of people not declaring their true status.

EDIT: Ella has beaten me to it!

 

[chrono]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Sorry FK, I was really confused there not linking the two together. It's been a long hard week for me. So tired...

My thanks to Ella for the clarification.

 

[kenny]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Kenny,
Gemstones are not made up of light.

Wow.
Ouch!

 

[chrono]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Oh, Kenny, please don't take my comments the wrong way. I'm totally wiped out at the moment. Truly, I am interested to know more about this topic and by all means, perhaps I could be wrong!

 

[NKOTB]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Thanks to Ella and others for clarification.

On another note commented on above...How about Christmas lights and gems TOGETHER? I have some Christmas lights permanently up along the ceiling in my basement, and sometimes I like to hold some of my particularly sparkly gems under there and move them around. Things I can only admit on PS...

 

[ChrisA222]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

I agree with all of what LD said in her last post.

 

[johnfish]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

See I learned something new again! Thank you Chrono. I did not realized that stones work in the print color scheme. I had just assumed (a dangerous word!) That it worked on the RGB scheme. This is do to my unfortunate addiction called CLAP (Christmas Light Addiction Problem) This is one of my other Passionate Hobbies and recently I discovered the world of RGB lighting for christmas lights, thus the assumption.

You know i think I understand the cross over. Both passions, gems and lights are sparkly shiney colored things so I Guess it makes sense!

John

While I will address the serious aspects of this thread in a minute, I just want to say OMG, John, you have nailed it!!! This is who I am! Of course they are like sparkly Xmas lights! As Home Simpson says: "D'oh!"

MB,

I am a fanatic about the Christmas Lights. I have even gone as far as animating the lights to Christmas music. Here is a link to one of the songs from a few years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-8WZCb_Ct0&list=WLfvOfaSVzq1djlSMBCTohx3L4N5IwBzqA&feature=mh_lolz

Next year will be bigger and better, new house and RGB lighting effects. Its a sickness but I love it!!

Kenny,

I realize color we see is reflected light from inside the gems stones. So are the primary colors RGB or RYB? I suspect it is RGB because it is light and not pigments we are talking about.

John

 

[chrono]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

I hope Kenny has time to come back and comment. Yes, it is light we see, yet gems are coloured by pigmentation. In essence, a pure untainted gem is colourless and colour happens when it is "stained" by added minerals such as iron, chromium, manganese and etc.

 

[pregcurious]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Going back to the original topic of red spinels, I don't think we talked about fluorescence. The most recent iPhone pics of my red spinel (currently in my avatar, but may not be there in the future) show it at full saturation in outdoor light, with its red/pink fluorescence. I think the combination of the fluor and the bluish morning light make the purple/pink come out. The saturation also looks similar in my office lighting (tube fluorescent lighting), but the purple goes away, and to me it looks neutral red. It also looks very crystal in my office. It looks a little less saturated in (yellow) incandescent light. It looks the least saturated under CFL lighting in my house, with or without other types of light. For this reason, I dislike CFLs--I feel like they are unkind to my stones.

I think one thing to consider when buying a red spinel is to make sure it does not black out indoors because of the loss of fluor and the presence of dark tone (brown).

Anyway, I just wanted to add that for future buyers of red spinels to ask about fluorescence. I have read on another gemology website (not to be named per PS policy) that not all red spinels have fluor.

 

[kenny]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

I'm no authority on any of this.
I just know the 3 primaries are different for pigment and light.
When someone says, 'The 3 primaries are XYZ' it is appropriate to elaborate that that is not the whole story.

White light is made up of all colors, so when it strikes a gem ALL of the colors of of spectrum are striking the gem.
I think a gem gets it color by absorbing all other colors but passing the one we see, just as a red apple does.

This phenomenon has nothing to do with mixing pigments or mixing light or which 3 are the primaries.
Disperson, breaking up light into it's component colors, it a totally separate thing.

Oh, and I never thought or posted that gemstones 'were made up of light'.

 

[LD]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Going back to the original topic of red spinels, I don't think we talked about fluorescence. The most recent iPhone pics of my red spinel (currently in my avatar, but may not be there in the future) show it at full saturation in outdoor light, with its red/pink fluorescence. I think the combination of the fluor and the bluish morning light make the purple/pink come out. The saturation also looks similar in my office lighting (tube fluorescent lighting), but the purple goes away, and to me it looks neutral red. It also looks very crystal in my office. It looks a little less saturated in (yellow) incandescent light. It looks the least saturated under CFL lighting in my house, with or without other types of light. For this reason, I dislike CFLs--I feel like they are unkind to my stones.

I think one thing to consider when buying a red spinel is to make sure it does not black out indoors because of the loss of fluor and the presence of dark tone (brown).

Anyway, I just wanted to add that for future buyers of red spinels to ask about fluorescence. I have read on another gemology website (not to be named per PS policy) that not all red spinels have fluor.

Mine blacks out outdoors but is gorgeous indoors!

 

[chrono]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Yup, I've seen some stones (red and blue spinels) black out outdoors too.

 

[pregcurious]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

I'm not sure exactly to what extent of darkness the term "blacking out" means, but my stone does get darker under mixed or CFL . (I wish I could find out what type of fluorscent lighting they use at work--it looks so pretty under those.) I don't know if you remember, LD, but a while back I took a bunch of pictures with bananas, and those were all indoors, and in the non-banana ones, it looked much darker than the recent pics outdoors.

Do silky rubies command such a high price because they don't get darker in a bad way indoors? I have examined a fair share of rubies, but that was by jewelry store lighting (which I am sure if optimal), or by a window in the jewelry store.

EDIT: Wording.

 

[pregcurious]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Yup, I've seen some stones (red and blue spinels) black out outdoors too.

I wonder why they black out outdoors.

A stone has to look good outdoors, in my office, and in restaurant lighting (which is dim, but the stone has to sparkle at least) for me to keep it. EDIT: I just realized though, I do have one stone that looks best indoors, at night, and I've kept that.

 

[ChrisA222]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Im willing to accept poor performance in some gems, if I am blown away by their performance in other areas.

For example, my Red Malaya Garnet from Barry. It is a really strong red, great flash, etc when outdoors, whether it is diffused lighting, or direct sunlight. In incandescent, it is darker but has really nice sparkle.

But....forget it in my office under flourescent lights...it closes up quite a bit. So I will wear this ring if I am going to be doing something outside, or at night at a nice restaurant where there wont be obnoxious flourescent lighting.

My Sapphire and Chrome Tourmaline both look better in flourescent, like my office, so when I work I wear one of those rings most ofthe time.

I also plan on setting a Sphene at some point, which also doesn't like flourescent lights. So I pick and choose what I wear based on where I am going.

 

[smitcompton]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Hi,

There is a difference between Rocky Talky consumer "help" and Colored Stones' "help". Gypsy posted an explanation to someone on the diamond board who decided they wanted a colored stone as an engagement ring vs a diamond ring. I', para-phrasing now, but she said, oh they work differently over there. In Rocky Talky we ask you what size stone you want, what shape you want , and what budget you have. We then go to work to find you the best deal for your parameters. On colored stone they tell you what it is you should have.


This is my statement- You may want a zircon when you first come on here, but you will be redirected probably to a spinel.
If you have a budget of 250.00 the forum may not be able to find you much, if anything in your budget.
They will all be too soft.

The forum should?? be used to show people what excellent quality stones are about, but like those helpful people on the diamond board, CS should understand not everyone(not most) can afford the best. Let people choose the stone they want, understanding some stones have perils associated with them.

LD doesn't need my help in defending herself. But I think she amongst our experts does understand the above better than most.
The quest is to help find something the consumer will be happy with. The best that they can get for their budget.


Annette

 

[pregcurious]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

CSs seem so temperamental to lighting conditions. With Fortekitty's message about hers all chipping, and Chrono pointing out the skyrocketing prices, I feel a little big less excited about CSs today.

I haven't bought one in a long time because I'm saving up for settings, but I think I just lost interest in owning a emerald ring. Maybe a pendant would be okay...mutter mutter.

 

[johnfish]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Interestingly enough after a bunch of research. (Thanks Google) I ran across this website.

http://www.langantiques.com/university/index.php/Spectrum

They state that gemstone colors are additive.

"It is important to mention the terms additive and subtractive color mixing at this point. Unlike with mixing pigments, which is subtractive color mixing, the transmitting of certain colors by a gemstone results in additive color mixing."

So in truth it is based on reflected light not color absorption which is how paints and pigments work.

As for the flourecing in different lights that is a result of the impurities absorbing then giving off energy. This is due to chemical and physical properties of the impurities in the the stone. Just like those goof posters that look like they were alive under a black light, (I am sure I am dating myself now as I grew up in the 60s and early seventies LOL)

I think this is the reason some stones look great in a jewelers lighting but may go dark in outdoor lighting. The more direct the light rays the more the stones colors and brilliance is going to pop. This is also why cut of the stone is so vitally inportant in color saturation and brilliance. ( I say that hoping I am not making a fool of myself as I am even less than a novice at this).

It is a fascinating subject and I suspect you could spend years trying to understand it all.

John

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

I asked Dioptase (and if you're reading this Dioptase, Ella approved) to come and post any examples (sold of course) of as close to pure red stones they have had. Hopefully, they've had a chance to read the relevant sections of this thread and can provide some of their glorious photo examples. I thought since Nomad sells such high end stones that they very likely have had really close to pure red stones as it gets. Perhaps not though.

John, I wish you lived near me! I love Christmas lights! I am such a kid that way and Kid, I completely agree with you, gemstones with Christmas lights? Does it get any better?!!

FK: Just to tack on to what others have said - no one would ever accuse you of flipping. Really. You have a beautiful collection, which has been amply documented. It is your prerogative to sell - and some of us can only hope you decide to sell some pieces some day.

 

[kenny]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

This link says gems get their color by absorbing all other colors and passing 'the color' of the gem.

Scroll down to COLOR.
http://www.bwsmigel.info/lesson4/de.optical.properties.html

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Interestingly enough after a bunch of research. (Thanks Google) I ran across this website.

http://www.langantiques.com/university/index.php/Spectrum

They state that gemstone colors are additive.

"It is important to mention the terms additive and subtractive color mixing at this point. Unlike with mixing pigments, which is subtractive color mixing, the transmitting of certain colors by a gemstone results in additive color mixing."

So in truth it is based on reflected light not color absorption which is how paints and pigments work.

As for the flourecing in different lights that is a result of the impurities absorbing then giving off energy. This is due to chemical and physical properties of the impurities in the the stone. Just like those goof posters that look like they were alive under a black light, (I am sure I am dating myself now as I grew up in the 60s and early seventies LOL)

I think this is the reason some stones look great in a jewelers lighting but may go dark in outdoor lighting. The more direct the light rays the more the stones colors and brilliance is going to pop. This is also why cut of the stone is so vitally inportant in color saturation and brilliance. ( I say that hoping I am not making a fool of myself as I am even less than a novice at this).

It is a fascinating subject and I suspect you could spend years trying to understand it all.

John

I'm glad you understood it. My first reaction to your post is "huh?" Grumble, grumble, now I'll have to go read something and hope my brain can retain it.