Clear, White Gems

[Gemklctr]

I recently had a ring guard made up for my wife''s great aunt - antique style with 2 rows of alternating blue and white sapphires. She also had a clear preference for natural stones and, while it took some time for my gem dealer to locate an acceptable set of whites (Storm is right, they do tend to be darker), the end result was spectacular. I believe the demand for larger white sapphires may be rising, especially good ones that are closest to colorless, so it will be more expensive than the CZ option, but it should be more durable and it can be something relatively unique, especially if custom cutting as suggested is feasible within your budget. I also acquired a set of 8mm white/silver topaz earrings for my mother a number of years ago. She loves them and they held up well even though she wore them alot until we got her diamond studs this year (not 8mm however

).

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/15/2005 6:14:19 AM
Author: valeria101


Strm, have you used the same proportions for the EC models of different materials ? The GA allows to optimize each to match the RI - if not done already (as the pictures make me suspect). Unfortunately, the program does not allow to observe fire all that well, but some of that can be picked up. Playing with the proportions can close a good deal of the gap - well, as much as phisically feasible. One thing is clear - high RI can be hidden very well by a bad choice of proportions. The opposute is only (very) partially true, but so seldom tried...

Yea val same for all of them.
It was to show the difference in the material itself.
They can be tuned slightly for each material but some would benifit more than others.
I suspect that it wouldnt change the ranking much.
Its the default emerald cut in DC with the stock jewelery store lighting setting if you want to play with it.
You have DC dont you?

 

[EconGuy]

Ana,

Thank you so much for your opinion, it is really helpful. I''m not sure if custom-cutting is in my budget, but I will look into this option.

 

[EconGuy]

GK,

You raise the white topaz option. The discussion, so far, has been on CZ, white sapphire and white zircon. Does anyone (Storm, if you're still there...) have the light scope for the reflective ability of white topaz? Any opinions on how topaz compares to the other natural gems?

I've read that sapphires are the next hardest after diamonds. But, as this will be a pendant, not a ring, the strength isn't as important. (She takes good care of her things....)

Thanks to all for this great thread!

 

[strmrdr]

topaz

 

[EconGuy]

movie zombie,

Yet another possibility?! I didn''t know that tourmaline can be white/clear. Thanks for the heads-up. I''ll start reading up on that particular gem. However, if you have any additional info on white tourmaline, I would love to hear it. Strength? Billiance? Fire? (emerald or similar cut....)

Thanks!

 

[EconGuy]

Date: 8/14/2005 7:47:30 PM
Author: strmrdr
tourmaline,
Nice the pattern shows up well but also notice the almost total lack of fire on the ends.

Storm,

Thanks for the image of the white tourmaline. Seems that this stone is 3rd or 4th on the list of possible choices.

 

[Bagpuss]

Date: 8/15/2005 9:31:18 AM
Author: EconGuy
Ana,

Thank you so much for your opinion, it is really helpful. I''m not sure if custom-cutting is in my budget, but I will look into this option.

Some cutters aren''t that expensive yet very good at what they do - try someone like Michael E. He cut an emerald cut aqua for me and it was very reasonable. I got exactly what I wanted this way.

 

[EconGuy]

Date: 8/15/2005 10:04:39 AM
Author: Bagpuss

Date: 8/15/2005 9:31:18 AM
Author: EconGuy
Ana,

Thank you so much for your opinion, it is really helpful. I'm not sure if custom-cutting is in my budget, but I will look into this option.

Some cutters aren't that expensive yet very good at what they do - try someone like Michael E. He cut an emerald cut aqua for me and it was very reasonable. I got exactly what I wanted this way.

Do you have a website for Michael E? I haven't heard this name before, but it seems that regular readers of pricescope know who he is. (i'm not a regular reader...)

EDIT: never mind, I just saw that his website was provided by Storm in one of the first posting in the thread!

Thanks again!

 

[Gemklctr]

Date: 8/15/2005 9:34:46 AM
Author: EconGuy
GK,

You raise the white topaz option. The discussion, so far, has been on CZ, white sapphire and white zircon. Does anyone (Storm, if you''re still there...) have the light scope for the reflective ability of white topaz? Any opinions on how topaz compares to the other natural gems?

I''ve read that sapphires are the next hardest after diamonds. But, as this will be a pendant, not a ring, the strength isn''t as important. (She takes good care of her things....)

Thanks to all for this great thread!

Topaz is 8 on the Mohs scale, not as hard as corundum but harder than tourmaline and beryl. Note, however, that there are different measurements of a gem''s durability, etc. I think topaz rates fairly highly there too, at least in part because it is often largely inclusion free, but some of the real experts may have more to offer re that. I do know that, over time, CZs frequently become chipped on the facet edges, which will downgrade their appearance (although that could happen to these other gems too). I think there is a thread somewhere that discusses the various qualities of CZs.

 

[EconGuy]

Date: 8/15/2005 10:55:57 AM
Author: GemKlctr

Date: 8/15/2005 9:34:46 AM
Author: EconGuy
GK,

You raise the white topaz option. The discussion, so far, has been on CZ, white sapphire and white zircon. Does anyone (Storm, if you''re still there...) have the light scope for the reflective ability of white topaz? Any opinions on how topaz compares to the other natural gems?

I''ve read that sapphires are the next hardest after diamonds. But, as this will be a pendant, not a ring, the strength isn''t as important. (She takes good care of her things....)

Thanks to all for this great thread!

Topaz is 8 on the Mohs scale, not as hard as corundum but harder than tourmaline and beryl. Note, however, that there are different measurements of a gem''s durability, etc. I think topaz rates fairly highly there too, at least in part because it is often largely inclusion free, but some of the real experts may have more to offer re that. I do know that, over time, CZs frequently become chipped on the facet edges, which will downgrade their appearance (although that could happen to these other gems too). I think there is a thread somewhere that discusses the various qualities of CZs.

Thanks for the hardness info on topaz!

 

[valeria101]

Date: 8/15/2005 9:44:03 AM
Author: EconGuy
movie zombie,

However, if you have any additional info on white tourmaline, I would love to hear it. Strength? Billiance? Fire? (emerald or similar cut....)

I am not a fan of any tourmaline... but the colorless seems really hard to love because it looks rather lifeless - It may not be just because of average measurements for the type (RI, difraction, what not) but also because cololrless tourmaline may not be born that way but an unintended result of overheating tourmaline. Whatever the case, the result is fuzzy and particularly dull. You wouldn't think so because of RI, but, well, I would really prefer anything else - especially Topaz. Prices are not comparable - topaz is allot cheaper, but that has little to do with looks. Colorless topaz is very common in any size and clarity. Colorless tourmaline more of a colectors' curiosity.

I could not claim I have seen a ton of white tourmaline - just a few of them, one less brilliant and fuzzier than the next !

There's also colorless spinel - also considered somewhat of a collector's prize but there seems to be more of it lately. I would not be looking for one of those in particular - it is very similar to colorless sapphire by all accounts. Sometimes a slight gray, pink or blue tint adds interest to either type. If it happens, why not.

I don't have a colorless spinel at hand (there must be one listed by Gemwow somewhere - saw it yesterday). But one interesting almost colorless sapphire - a very, very slight blue,came tomind.

The piece is listed down this link.

basically, 6cts, 11.6 x 7.8mm (=quite large!), untreated, clean, nicely cut and $2k

It is deep cut, but for all the good reasons, IMO. Lower RI requires that to close windows and provide sparkle. The price seems to account for that too. Also, if you ever considered altering that already wonderful cut for concave facets (and a more brilliant gem, IMO) the deep and bulky pavilion will likely allow that. Of course, the mixed cut (it looks liek emerald cut crown and scissor cut pavilion) is great as is. Some reasons for such change are listed below

Now. there is something than can be done for sapphire but not for diamonds although some migh wish it: concave faceting ! You might want to consider that. Somewhere around here there should be a picture of a white sapphire concave cut in a three-stone ring. It does look great and probably as bright as this gem can ever get. THIS one is something else - a concave cut colorless zircon by the same maker:

In my opinion, this cut obviates the double refraction - the facet junctions just get 'lost' among the small facets. Even in a magnified picture like this! In person that effect should be rather hard to identify even. This picture above doesn't show it at all - others from the same site show double refraction a bit better.

Of course, this is not a rectangle by all means. But the material is not all that rare - having colorless zircon faceted like this is the trully unusual bit. And concave faceting yiellds some breathtaking squares and rectangular shapes as well.

If you do go for a custom cut, perhaps a step cut crown would blend the brighteness of the concave pavilion with the look you were considering at first. Worth asking, anyway

THIS is also a large white sapphire - traditional cut and bezel set. Perhaps not an 'engagement ring'design, but it gives a good idea of what white sapphire mich look like bezel set. And there aren't that many to look at.

 

[EconGuy]

Ana,

Thank you for the info and the pictures on concave cuts. I had no idea that these types of cuts are out there!

 

[widget]

I''m still favoring that "radiant emerald" cut sapphire at www.acstones.com ....Barbara does not use the term "stunning brilliance" in describing many of her wares...

Here''s another really interesting stone from her site: Sort of frosty looking, and an interesting shape for a pendant....it''s quartz!!

widget

 

[Bagpuss]

Michael cut this 4ct emerald cut aquamarine

from the rough on the right

He offered to do another cut to intensify the colour but I liked the look of the traditional emerald cut so stuck with that.

 

[EconGuy]

Date: 8/15/2005 2:33:24 PM
Author: widget
I''m still favoring that ''radiant emerald'' cut sapphire at www.acstones.com ....Barbara does not use the term ''stunning brilliance'' in describing many of her wares...

Here''s another really interesting stone from her site: Sort of frosty looking, and an interesting shape for a pendant....it''s quartz!!

widget

widget, yes that radiant emerald cut white sapphire sure is a nice one...buget way over the budget.

 

[EconGuy]

Date: 8/15/2005 3:16:55 PM
Author: Bagpuss
Michael cut this 4ct emerald cut aquamarine

from the rough on the right

He offered to do another cut to intensify the colour but I liked the look of the traditional emerald cut so stuck with that.

Amazing! Such a nice gem from that rough chunk. Really nice traditional emerald cut. I agree with Julie, my fiance, when she says that this type of cut is elegant.

 

[partgypsy]

Bagpuss, love that pendant. Hmmm. How would your wife feel about a light blue aquamarine pendant? I think aquamarines are beautiful, look good in emerald or modified emerald cuts, and while not colorless, have a light enough tone to go with alot of looks.

 

[jcrow]

MIght be a totally different subject, but have you thought about and Asha? Just curious.

 

[EconGuy]

Hello Part Gypsy,

Unfortunately, she has a strong preferance for only clear and white. But thanks for the suggestion!

 

[EconGuy]

Date: 8/15/2005 6:25:02 PM
Author: jcrow
MIght be a totally different subject, but have you thought about and Asha? Just curious.

JCrow,

What is an Asha? Are you possibily referring to an asscher cut stone? (If so, then yes, she would like both the asscher and emerald cuts.) Or, maybe Asha is a type of gem? I''m a bit of a newbie to gemstones, so I''m probably missing something obvious.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/15/2005 6:59:14 PM
Author: EconGuy

Date: 8/15/2005 6:25:02 PM

Author: jcrow

MIght be a totally different subject, but have you thought about and Asha? Just curious.

JCrow,


What is an Asha? Are you possibily referring to an asscher cut stone? (If so, then yes, she would like both the asscher and emerald cuts.) Or, maybe Asha is a type of gem? I''m a bit of a newbie to gemstones, so I''m probably missing something obvious.

asha is an expensive brand of cz for price and quality your much better off with Wink or Micheal.

 

[strmrdr]

Richard M another gemstone cutter who posts here asked for this info so im posting it here.
He doesnt cut cz but if you decide to go with one of the others he will be a good person to talk to also.
numbers used for simulations:

 

[strmrdr]

more numbers

 

[strmrdr]

last one.

 

[EconGuy]

Date: 8/15/2005 11:24:28 PM
Author: strmrdr
last one.

Storm,

Thank you for posting this information. Do you have a website for Richard M?

 

[Richard M.]

Hi Mark,

Check your private messages.

Richard M.

 

[movie zombie]

EconGuy, as in all things, until you see them, you won''t know. also, there is quite a bit of difference between an ''acceptable'' stone and one that might be considered world class....it will be reflected in the price, of course. i''d attempt to have several sent to me or sent to a store where i could see them side by side. and i don''t think i''d be approaching this as an alternative to a diamond. the natural stones you''re considering are worthy in and of themselves. cut will make an incredible difference as will how many and what type of inclusions.

also, check out moissonite [spelling?] since you seem to be of an open mind re created and/or simulants.

peace, movie zombie

 

[jcrow]

"asha is an expensive brand of cz for price and quality your much better off with Wink or Micheal."

Would that be the ideal choice for a larger carat weight- say 2-3 carats??

 

[colorchange]

Hi,

If you can find some, I would advice you natural incolor spinel.
I have almost 40 of these (unfortuanately 4 to 6mm round, it won''t make the job) and can tell you it''s very very nice, a little blue but truely very very nice.
It may be perfectly transparent like no sapphire is.
White saphire tends to be more white than incolor indeed and very slightly milky, there is also usually an overtone of silver or yellow which don''t look like diamond.

I''m 100% ok with you that natural is better ; if you want something really bright, you can choose also light canari yellow sapphire (it''s extremely nice) and you may find some in quite reasonable price.

Hope I have been of some help...