- Joined
- Nov 17, 2017
- Messages
- 422
.Not an expert. If it says clouds are not shown it means they were not instrumental in assigning a grade. It also can mean that they are so faint that it is too small to draw or are so spread out it would take up too much of the plot diagram. Additional clouds nit shown means a cloud was instrumental in assigning a grade and there are other clouds that were non instrumental in assigning a grade as described above. These need to be evaluated to ensure it doesn't affect the transparency of the stone.
If the report says clarity based on clouds not shown the diamond will have a hazy appearance and will have poor performance.
Thank you so much for your input Layla ! I am purchasing this diamond pre-loved so no chance to ask a dealer about possible clarity issues . The seller told me that the crystal is white and no black ,but I will have some inspection time ! It’s hearts on fire brand diamond , so I hope they check their diamonds for possible haze issues before branding them ! No ? The proportions of the stone look great which is hard to find if you not purchasing super ideal diamond , so I guess I will give this baby a chanceThe order of the inclusions on the lab report tells you what the most egregious one is-- and that is the one that sets the clarity. In this case, it is a (hopefully white) crystal. And a feather is also noted so that impacted their grade as well. They don't list the clouds on the clarity plot at all. So it likely didn't impact their impression of the diamond's clarity enough to affect it's grade. If you are working with a respectable vendor whom you trust, just call them up and talk to them about the clouds they see, and if there is anything to be concerned with.
Alternately, if you aren't buying from a dealer-- then this is the time to bring in an INDEPENDENT appraiser and have them evaluate the diamond for you. A good independent appraiser is the rare thing, unfortunately. So it pays to do your research. A good appraisal will cost you a couple hundred dollars, so keep that in mind.
The diamond is from 2008. And that's a good thing. 10 years ago the clarity quality of the diamonds on the market was much better than it is now. Good luck!
Aso,as a trade member ,I am sure you have seen tons of diamonds ! So there is difference between these comments ? Clouds not shown vs additional clouds are not shown ? I was trying to find some info on ags site ,but ,no ,they just explain types of inclusionsThe order of the inclusions on the lab report tells you what the most egregious one is-- and that is the one that sets the clarity. In this case, it is a (hopefully white) crystal. And a feather is also noted so that impacted their grade as well. They don't list the clouds on the clarity plot at all. So it likely didn't impact their impression of the diamond's clarity enough to affect it's grade. If you are working with a respectable vendor whom you trust, just call them up and talk to them about the clouds they see, and if there is anything to be concerned with.
Alternately, if you aren't buying from a dealer-- then this is the time to bring in an INDEPENDENT appraiser and have them evaluate the diamond for you. A good independent appraiser is the rare thing, unfortunately. So it pays to do your research. A good appraisal will cost you a couple hundred dollars, so keep that in mind.
The diamond is from 2008. And that's a good thing. 10 years ago the clarity quality of the diamonds on the market was much better than it is now. Good luck!
Thabk you @sledge ! I will def check the stone and give it a try ! I wish they would have it somewhere for regular ppl some information about the comments they put in description of the stone so we ,regular ppl, have more chances to check the stone beforehand instead of search for hours and days what they mean and not solely rely on the sellerBeing in the trade @LaylaR would definitely have more knowledge on the matter. However, based on what we've seen here, I would make the assumption there are clouds that are negligible and have little to no effect on the clarity of the stone.
I agree the proportions are gorgeous!
However, being an SI1, I think it is prudent to follow the advice of bringing in a qualified independent appraiser to render an unbiased opinion, just so you have the reassurance. For $100-200, it seems like very cheap insurance to me. If you buy, I would suggest to the seller the diamond gets sent to the independent appraiser and upon their approval, you wire/send money to them (assuming this isn't a local transaction).
I've heard many suggest @denverappraiser on this site.
https://americangemregistry.com/prices/
Also, PS has several listed appraisers in different areas available here:
https://www.pricescope.com/appraisers
Thabk you @sledge ! I will def check the stone and give it a try ! I wish they would have it somewhere for regular ppl some information about the comments they put in description of the stone so we ,regular ppl, have more chances to check the stone beforehand instead of search for hours and days what they mean and not solely rely on the seller. But maybe majority of ppl doesn’t need that information and don’t care ,they are driven by the size and not beauty . I was surprised that lots of ppl even doesn’t know how good quality stone look like and indeed diamonds are sparkly
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Uh yeas !!!the bigger the better lolYou're welcome @Golden_bird!
I think you hit the nail on the head. Most people don't care about details like we do here. Honestly, I don't think it's they don't care so much as they don't know what to analyze. Speaking from a guy's perspective, you want the biggest, most sparkly diamond that you can afford to show the girl you love her. Period.
Unfortunately, most are uneducated and walk into a jewelry store with awesome lighting and less than honest sales people pushing them into a sale and many bad diamonds get bought. And the wheel goes round and round. As people become more educated and demand a higher level of quality from their jewelers (who will then demand more from cutters/suppliers), and the consumer truly knows how to analyze that data then we will continue to see issues similar to this.
You did! Have you had a chance to get them appraised ,just for yourself ?to find color /clarity ? I do hope that when you pay so much premium for these stones ,they are little be selective with stones quality they decide to brand and don’t brand diamonds with issues :rollI bought hearts on fire earrings preloved without papers. The are beautifully cut!!
Thabk you !!! I hope the stone will be a beauty cause I drive myself crazy with knowing all these info about secret clouds not shownVery nice proportions.![]()
Uh yeas !!!the bigger the better lolI am a victim of prisecope
of that ideal comunity
I am owning a 60/60 diamond of the same size 1.20 , before I knew about pricescope, i was happy with that stone and it has the perfect kind of proportions for this type of cut , and it still beautiful to my eyes ,but my brain is killing me ... every singe day that I don’t own the “perfect” proportion stone ... and I don’t think I will be calm before I finally own it ..so I started to search for a new stone bcs I just made a customs setting for that size and love it and not willing to scrape it and Waiste 1500$ worth of setting ...hopefully that new stone is a perfect fit and I can sleep normally
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Oh I definitely not doing it for somebody else but for myself lolI'd cut yourself a break. You said a few key things here that gave me pause. First you seem to really like 60/60 diamonds, and it sounds like it's ideal cut for that style (my guess is about 33 crown / 41 pavilion) and it's still beautiful to your eyes.
Who truly defines "perfect"? If you love that stone and it's still beautiful then I could argue that it's "perfect" for you. The stone you are looking at will have a different style, as it will have less white light and more rainbow flashes. I wouldn't say one is better than the other, it just depends on what you prefer at that point.
My favorite color is black. If someone came along and said white or grey was the "perfect" color, I'd tell them to go pound sand. Not that I may not appreciate white or grey, but I like black because I do and to me that is the "perfect" color. Or as I recall from art classes -- it's actually the combination of all colors; whereas, white is the absence of color.
Whatever you decide I'm on board. Just do it for you, and not others.![]()
It should be fine. I wouldn't worry about it. Let me be nosy...how much is the stone? did you compare the price with other H&A stones?Thabk you !!! I hope the stone will be a beauty cause I drive myself crazy with knowing all these info about secret clouds not shownand if they indeed nothing and I can enjoy this ball of fire with 55% table and I hope I will see a huge difference ,worth extra investment of money ,time and energy , and my 59% table on my old stone
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I am purchasing it pre-owned , not from any dealer , but private seller . so the price is def lower if I would buy “new”It should be fine. I wouldn't worry about it. Let me be nosy...how much is the stone? did you compare the price with other H&A stones?
Oh I definitely not doing it for somebody else but for myself lolI don’t think anybody will notice a difference esp my husband , to him ,all of the stones looks the same ,the only difference he sees is the size
I own lots of different cut stones ,I have blue Nile signature, Brian Gavin, WF ACA but they are not big , 0.50-0.70 range (earrings,pendant and sides stones in my 3 stone ring ) they all beautiful in their own way . If I love this hearts on fire stone in person (I used to have one ,also around 0.70) I think it will be a good improvement to my collection
and I will have something nice left for my growing up daughters , maybe by the time they grow up ,nowadays super ideals will be 60-60 diamonds who knows . My 59/60 diamond have 32/41 angles
. Click my name and find a thread about it if interested to see
I don’t know how to insert a link
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$5600??I am purchasing it pre-owned , not from any dealer , but private seller . so the price is def lower if I would buy “new”and I do not paying any premium for it being branded. browsing around wf,bg, or blue Nile , I see tons of stones which were I guess commissioned for upgrades with old certificates . So I don’t think you ever get a freshly cut stone if not only esp ask for it . So I am fine with it
what would be your guess for the price ??
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Oh thank you @sledge ! I saw you doing these calculations for other ppl and wanted so badly to check where my stone is fallenI think I found it:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-reset-a-diamond-or-sell.236384/
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For the record, I really like the stone. And also love the metal color of your setting. That darker shade really contrasts nicely against your bright & white stone. Very well done!
Also, for the price you paid, it was a steal. I'd be very happy and hold your head high on this one.
To give you a little reassurance, I used my custom-built Excel calculator that is based on AGS proportions charts to show where your potential cut could land based on the proportions. It looks like it lands exactly on EX (or excellent); however, with the way GIA rounds & averages, it has the potential to creep into ideal territory (blue box).
I'm not sure if you've put an ASET scope on it or not, but from the limited photos I've seen it looks very pretty and I think actual cut is closer to ideal than excellent.
Again, well done.
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You are spot on !!!$5600??![]()
You are spot on !!!plus it’s set in a diamond blingy setting which I don’t need so maybe I will do something with it . Do you think it’s a deal ??? Or I should keep looking ??
Thank you LayLa for such a great response ! I have heard that nowadays it’s harder to find a great raw supply or stones where fluorescence doesn’t cause an issue . So I hope that I will get a treasure with more strict quality and clarity control than we have nowJust as an FYI:
The labs do not note anywhere on the lab reports if the diamond is hazy or sleepy. It's not a consideration in their clarity grade. It SHOULD be, IMO. But it's not. That's why working with a responsible trusted vendor (or appraiser) is invaluable.
That said, again the fact that the diamond was cut 10 years ago is a good thing. There was a lower incidence of haziness in the crystals available.
I do not know Hearts on Fire's criteria. To the best of my knowledge they do not cut their own diamonds. Like BGD and WF they buy from cutting operations that cut diamonds of the caliber that they carry.
I do know that at CBI all their stones are scrutinized at every opportunity and stones that are hazy or sleepy do not get the CBI brand. Also if a diamond contains certain types of inclusions they will not brand it. But CBI controls all their production from crystal to branding. They do not buy diamonds from outside cutters and brand them. So it's a different animal.
Point of reference, my girls BGD 0.867ct H VS2 with medium fluor was $4,800. Almost bought a 0.90ct ACA of similar specs for $5,600 or so prior to finding the BGD.
You are at 1.20 carats and I like your proportions better! So yes, that is a deal!
The diamond is from 2008. And that's a good thing. 10 years ago the clarity quality of the diamonds on the market was much better than it is now. Good luck!
Wow ! Such helpful information and lots of food for thoughts!Hello @doberman,
John Pollard said it better than I can here: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...uper-ideal-diamond.174235/page-2#post-4323297
Excerpt:
"So what has changed? On the global stage gem-quality rough has become less clean. This is partly due to long-standing mines reaching their limits and partly due to dirtier sources passing rough through India and China. This has impacted the entire industry, especially downstream as clarity grading is limited to 10X magnification. Persistent issues that exist beyond 10X can impact optics without appearing on laboratory reports. The frequency of hazy / sleepy diamonds on the market has increased, to the point where major B2B trading sites have added the option for suppliers to declare ‘No BGM’ (brown/green/milky) on diamonds they offer.
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...Ten years ago we found more acceptable crystals in lower clarities. We crafted abundant SI1-SI2. We even polished a few I1s, although that seems like forever-ago. The main challenge wasn't fundamental transparency then, it was planning the orientation of grade-setting inclusions to keep the diamond eye-clean. Today our rejection rate is higher across all categories and finding transparent, clean SI2 candidates has become painfully rare.
What else has changed? Many trade members believe clarity grading standards (in general) have softened over time. We submit diamonds to GIA and AGSL, and while we could argue that the smaller one-location lab remains more consistent, we agree about that softening on the whole. So, while our output has remained consistent, the average clarity grade of that output has edged up over time."
Hope that helps!