colored stone appraisals

[T L]

The best way to find out how valuable a stone is is to get a reputable lab report identifying all of the treatments on it, then send it to a highly knowlegable gemologist like Richard Sheerwood, to ascertain the value based on the quality and treatment of the stone. Often times, past auction estimates on similar stones are used to ascertain value on a certain piece. For example, the value on a 3 carat untreated Burmese ruby of top quality can be researched using auction estimates (Christies and Sotheby's for example). The appraised value is the insurance replacement value, which is a certain percentage above the auction estimate. Diamonds are by far, the easiest stones to appraise. A particular colored gem needs to be evaluated by a gemologist that is very familiar with them, as Richard stated in his article above.

 

[Harriet]

Crasru,
I''m beginning to get a sense of what you want -- gems that please you and that are fairly priced. Am I correct? If so, that makes sense to me. Since you''ve named a number of expensive stones, I''d suggest that you try to see as many in real life as possible so that you train your ''eye.'' Also, don''t expect to find bargains. These are well-established gems and you get what you pay for. Personally, I don''t commit to a stone before seeing it and, preferably, living with it for a few days and viewing it under different lighting conditions. That, coupled with the you-get-what-you-pay-for maxim is why I''ve never bought anything off eBay. Don''t feel bad about returning a stone you don''t love. The vendor should understand that that''s just business. Even if a stone is the top token of its type, don''t buy it unless you love it. Perhaps you just don''t care for the variety or prefer a different colour that is not considered to be the top colour (in which case, you''ll pay less). Lastly, for me at least, colour comes first. I adjust my clarity and size expectations according to the variety in question (e.g. I don''t expect that a rubellite be eye-clean and I don''t expect to find many gorgeous demantoids above 1ct). Where it comes to cut (and many disagree with me), all I ask for is symmetry (which doesn''t even have to be perfect), a lack of extinction (albeit not a complete lack in certain cases) and no windowing (do distinguish between a tilt window and a real window).

Smitcompton,
Hope you don''t mind the threadjack.

 

[Harriet]

Double post.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi All,

Harriet--Don''t mind at all. Its nice to help.

I just read Richard Wises recommendations for appraisals. I just want to say that the appraiser I went to had just purchased a 3 ct tsavorite for a client on Lake Shore Drive( the expensive area in Chicago).. He has a store at Watertower Place, but also had two others in suburban locations. I never told him where I bought them or what I paid for them. I sort of pretended I knew what he was talking about when he said"You can imagine my difficulty in finding a 3 ct tsavorite." This was 5 yrs ago. I admit to you all I had 6 Tsavorites. Are we saying they may not be appraised too high? At the time JTV said they were rare, $2,000.00 a ct and I believed them.. I especially believed them after the appraisals.

This is not a thread about JTV. They seem to know that your appraisal will be higher than what you paid. I think that it is misleading to the customer to make them so high.

Gene-- JTV will give an estimated retail value (ERV) Once in a while they will say it appraised for x amount.

I forgot to mention MZ''s spessertite ring , which is surely one of kind. There was a fellow called Maurice who had a wonderful collection, but he does buy and sell, although he is an accountant by trade(I think) He has great stuff.

I have several other questions that I will post in another thread when I get a chance.

I just wanted to read what others thought.

Thanks,

 

[Pandora II]

Richard... you know the rules, where are the photos of this ruby???

Enjoyed the article - where can we read part 2?


Crasru - I get the feeling that you want to do what many of us who love gems but haven''t won the lottery recently want. Personally I like to buy gems where I get huge pleasure from them, know that I paid a fair price for them and that they will be something my daughter eventually enjoys as something with some value not just as some bits of old rock my mother overpaid for. I also like to enjoy the research, the hunt and the buying experience - I''ve ''met'' some wonderful vendors through PS.

Harriet has given great advice - study what you want to buy, learn everything you can about the species and what makes a good specimen and what makes a great specimen. Then buy the best you can.

 

[PrecisionGem]

My point is this. When I think of something as an investment, I think of something that if need be, can be "cashed out". Maybe you loose your job, are move and are buying a house, so you suddenly need cash. How do you sell the stones? To me, something is worth, only what someone is willing to pay for it.

The second point is, and I ask this to everyone who thinks their stones have gone up in value, how will you sell them? A well respected jeweler will be able to sell the same stone at a higher price than the average person can. A well respected jeweler in NYC or LA will be able to sell the stone for a higher price than one in the middle of Kansas. If you try selling your stone on Ebay, I would think you will normally get a very low price for it. It''s just like selling a used car, something that most everyone has done. A used car dealer will be able to get more for you car, than you will with an add in the local paper. A new car dealer, selling the same brand car as his new cars, will get more than the typical corner used car lot.

Walk into any jeweler and try to sell you stone. If you are really lucky, and they have a need for the stone, you may be able to get a little less than wholesale for it. So unless you were able to buy well below wholesale, or the particular stones value went way up, be prepared to loose money on the stone.

Look at some of the historical gem prices, and you will see that many stones peaked out back in the 80 and 90''s and have dropped in price. Tanzanite being a prime example.

Now it''s a different story if you are talking about extremely rare, or important stones. I''m sure if the Black Price Ruby, or the Cullinan II were offered for sale, or any of the other Crown Jewels they would be snatched up. Thats much different than trying to sell a 5 or 6 ct garnet.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 2/21/2010 3:45:47 PM
Author: Harriet
Crasru,

I''m beginning to get a sense of what you want -- gems that please you and that are fairly priced. Am I correct? If so, that makes sense to me. Since you''ve named a number of expensive stones, I''d suggest that you try to see as many in real life as possible so that you train your ''eye.'' Also, don''t expect to find bargains. These are well-established gems and you get what you pay for. Personally, I don''t commit to a stone before seeing it and, preferably, living with it for a few days and viewing it under different lighting conditions. That, coupled with the you-get-what-you-pay-for maxim is why I''ve never bought anything off eBay. Don''t feel bad about returning a stone you don''t love. The vendor should understand that that''s just business. Even if a stone is the top token of its type, don''t buy it unless you love it. Perhaps you just don''t care for the variety or prefer a different colour that is not considered to be the top colour (in which case, you''ll pay less). Lastly, for me at least, colour comes first. I adjust my clarity and size expectations according to the variety in question (e.g. I don''t expect that a rubellite be eye-clean and I don''t expect to find many gorgeous demantoids above 1ct). Where it comes to cut (and many disagree with me), all I ask for is symmetry (which doesn''t even have to be perfect), a lack of extinction (albeit not a complete lack in certain cases) and no windowing (do distinguish between a tilt window and a real window).


Smitcompton,

Hope you don''t mind the threadjack.

A few more thoughts ... Since you have a sizable budget, please do not fall into the trap of buying a stone ever so often just to scratch an itch. For me, at least, it''s quality over quantity. Also, with a true gem, do do it justice with a worthy setting.

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 2/21/2010 10:14:23 PM
Author: Harriet

Date: 2/21/2010 3:45:47 PM
Author: Harriet
Crasru,

I''m beginning to get a sense of what you want -- gems that please you and that are fairly priced. Am I correct? If so, that makes sense to me. Since you''ve named a number of expensive stones, I''d suggest that you try to see as many in real life as possible so that you train your ''eye.'' Also, don''t expect to find bargains. These are well-established gems and you get what you pay for. Personally, I don''t commit to a stone before seeing it and, preferably, living with it for a few days and viewing it under different lighting conditions. That, coupled with the you-get-what-you-pay-for maxim is why I''ve never bought anything off eBay. Don''t feel bad about returning a stone you don''t love. The vendor should understand that that''s just business. Even if a stone is the top token of its type, don''t buy it unless you love it. Perhaps you just don''t care for the variety or prefer a different colour that is not considered to be the top colour (in which case, you''ll pay less). Lastly, for me at least, colour comes first. I adjust my clarity and size expectations according to the variety in question (e.g. I don''t expect that a rubellite be eye-clean and I don''t expect to find many gorgeous demantoids above 1ct). Where it comes to cut (and many disagree with me), all I ask for is symmetry (which doesn''t even have to be perfect), a lack of extinction (albeit not a complete lack in certain cases) and no windowing (do distinguish between a tilt window and a real window).


Smitcompton,

Hope you don''t mind the threadjack.

A few more thoughts ... Since you have a sizable budget, please do not fall into the trap of buying a stone ever so often just to scratch an itch. For me, at least, it''s quality over quantity. Also, with a true gem, do do it justice with a worthy setting.

Absolutely right! I am not impulsive with clothes - may wait for a sale, for example, if it is an expensive purse. I should start educating myself and probably need to start traveling since very few good shows come to Seattle. But I shall try.

 

[Harriet]

If you can, try to see the Smithsonian.

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 2/21/2010 11:01:38 PM
Author: Harriet
If you can, try to see the Smithsonian.

It used to be so easy...OK I shall try...
I have been there a couple of times but at that time I was not interested in gems. Alas!

 

[chrono]

Not all museums have nice gem specimens as their budget is limited but I agree that the Smithsonian has very nice examples. Gem Shows are also fun and informative; a nice way to see what’s out there and keep abreast of current pricing.

 

[Arkteia]

Unfortunately, I won''t be able to see the Smithsonian till June but hopefully in April I shall go back to Moscow and visit Museum of Mineralogy (not the largest one but OK) and the Diamond Fund which is very good.

 

[AustenNut]

Just out of curiosity, how much higher are the appraisals than what most people pay for their piece? Is it double the price? 50% more? 20% more? A different amount?

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 2/24/2010 11:00:14 PM
Author: AustenNut
Just out of curiosity, how much higher are the appraisals than what most people pay for their piece? Is it double the price? 50% more? 20% more? A different amount?

Well, you have to understand, thay people might have bought an item a few years ago, and with the rising price of gold, appraisals may be quite fair. I would not say it is double the price, but what I have noticed is that the more expensive an item, the more fair they become.

 

[AustenNut]

Is there usually much of a differential between the price paid and the appraised price when they are essentially done at the same time?

 

[smitcompton]

Hi Austennut,

That is the problem for me. For example, a tsavorite ring 2.12 ct set in 18kt gold with 76 pts of diamonds SI that cost me $1,300, but appraised at $6,500. I can''t send photos.

I have a tanzanite ring-- beautiful blue--that i purchasd for #1,200. 1.81 with 40 pts dia in 14kt gold --appraised for $3,400.

A 3.25 ct rubilite ring in 14kt gold with 10pts of dia that I pd $400.00 for was appraised for $2400-

A 14 kt gold necklace with 5 emeradls (9x7 1.45 ct -1.80 each) and 4 cts of diamonds custom done which I paid for all the parts $2200 was appraised for $6,900.00

I have a lot more. All inflated, I think, done by GIA gemologists.

Even a diamonds, actually several.. 14kt gold 1 carat si2 --pd 550.00 appraised $3,000.

Either I''m really good at picking jewelry, or???? I''ll skip the ruby.

Thanks,

 

[Arkteia]

Yes, but you probably won''t insure these stones because it makes no sense to pay insurance premiums. Now if we are talking about a 20K piece, the appraisal will probably be closer to the price you paid because a good insurance Co very well knows the retail prices of such gems. The appraisal is given for insurance purposes. You can talk to an appraiser and ask him what is the realistic price you can sell this piece for, but it is another issue.

Also, if you bought a stone 10 years ago the prices may have quadrupled since that time - depending on the stone, of course.

 

[LD]

As a general rule of thumb most of my "average" items will appraise for 3 x the purchase price. However, I have other items that have been appraised at 10 x, 15 x and in one case 20 x. Are they realistic? Well for some of them yes because trying to get the same thing again may take years of hard work. For the majority, no.

The appraised amount does not mean that I can go and sell the piece for that. A piece of jewellery is only worth what somebody will pay for it and normally (if you''ve bought at a fair price) the selling price will be less. If you break even, you''re very lucky.

I don''t equate appraisals with actual worth. The only time that it''s useful is if I lose an insured piece. The appraisal will (most likely) allow me to get something equally as lovely.

 

[AustenNut]

Thanks for all your helpful responses so far. Two more questions:

1) Are the appraisals y''all are referring to done by independent appraisers or by the jeweler''s appraisers doing it for insurance purposes? And have you found a difference between the two in terms of their "appraised" values?

2) At what point is it wise to insure an item, or at what point is it not really worth the bother?

 

[Harriet]

My hubby's theory is that, if you can afford to replace something, then you don't need to insure it. This assumes that the object can be replaced, which is often not the case with gems.

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 2/26/2010 9:39:26 AM
Author: AustenNut
Thanks for all your helpful responses so far. Two more questions:

1) Are the appraisals y''all are referring to done by independent appraisers or by the jeweler''s appraisers doing it for insurance purposes? And have you found a difference between the two in terms of their ''appraised'' values?

2) At what point is it wise to insure an item, or at what point is it not really worth the bother?

I have never seen a difference between an independent appraiser and a jeweler''s appraiser. I am beginning to wonder what "independent" appraiser means since most of them sell stones, too, or tend to work with certain jewellers or B&M stores. GIA appraisers are probably independent, but you do not want to send them a 1K piece for their appraisal.

Harriett''s rule of thumb is very good, I think. Personally, I would not insure anything below 6 K and sometimes 8 K because unless it is very dear to you, it is not worth the premiums you pay to the insurance company. This being said, if I spent a lot of time finding it, I might insure it because my time costs something, too.

 

[LD]

All of mine are carried out by independent appraisers.

It''s a personal choice as to when you would insure an item.

 

[chrono]

Date: 2/26/2010 10:25:22 AM
Author: Harriet
My hubby''s theory is that, if you can afford to replace something, then you don''t need to insure it. This assumes that the object can be replaced, which is often not the case with gems.

Harriet,
I am in agreement with your DH with regards as to whether to insure or not.

 

[smitcompton]

All my appraisal were by independent appraisers which just means I did not buy from them.

Initially, after getting these appraisal, I thought I''d better insure them. I called my agent and he said not to insure unless it was appraised over $3,000.

I began to suspect an over-valuation on these appraisal some where down the line and just decided to put them in a safe deposit box. I go to visit them periodically and see if they look the same to me. I had to laugh at one person who said they thought of TL when they bought a gemstone. I swear, I recently thought the same thing. I discovered my matching spessertites had the dreaded brown. I did laugh and said TL would have a stroke. Remember I bought them 5 yrs ago. But i am ashamed TL. Never again. The dreaded brown and gray will not find itself in my collection.

Thanks,

 

[Stone Hunter]

I''ve been to the Smithsonian gemstone exhibit. I had a wonderful time there looking at everything many times. But it didn''t make me want to spend more money on each of my stones. Maybe someday I''ll up the prices I pay, maybe not.

My collection is for me and I try to be educated and not buy junk but it''s not what I''d call "high end." Sounds like Crasru was paying "high end" prices but not that happy with the results. I think it''s always upsetting to feel that you overpaid!

I think that PS really helps folks pick the price point that they are comfortable with and get the best stones in that pricepoint!