Comparison of my Canera and Diamonds by Lauren settings

[CharmyPoo]

I hope you don't mind me posting this. I was looking into 5 stone rings and put this together for myself.

 

[TristanC]

FIrst off, thanks for the post Yssie, and more much more than anything - Congrats on loving your final ring! There is nothing more right than just loving what you have. And it is very easy to see why you love it too!

The sharing of all information on the thread is very interesting, especially since I have decided to go with VC. And it definitely opens ones eyes to the potential benefits and strengths of one method vs another.

Props from me to Victor, for handling it in a very professional manner, although I can imagine the consternation he must be feeling. Some restraint is very classy.

And for me as well, the fact that SK and VC are known quantities, with replicable results as you are aware of exactly who is working at the jeweller's bench, is a large part of the decision to do a custom for me. This is one of the reasons why LM isn't the first choice to spring to mind and also why without a name behind the bench, I don't feel that I can necessarily get the exact beautiful results that Yssie got.

As to other vendors, I am only glad that the end result was splendid for you. It is a shame that once again, they are not properly schooled in how to be gracious, even in victory. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but of course that is subjective and detracts nothing from the fact that the ring was ridiculously well executed.

Sometimes we pay for a product, sometimes we pay for an experience. Sometimes we get both. Cheers!

 

[maplefemme]

Interesting comparison, and I would like to give kudos to Victor for being classy in his responses when his work is being criticised.

Not many posts here, but loooooooots of readers.

Comparison shots with diamonds still in each of the settings would be much more fair, IMO. I think that the lots of readers aren't getting the entire picture (no pun intended).

I'd like to add a photo of the ring before it was put back on the bench the second time as well. This is the raw photo taken by our photographer.
This is Nickel-Alloyed 18K, no cup for center stone, and 2.3-2.8mm shank as per Yssie's request.

I have to say, I look at this ring (VC's) and I'm still in awe of it as much as I was the first time I saw it, it's a work of art, truly.
I still stand by wanting it, if you ever choose to sell it, Yssie

I think DBL had a huge advantage in having VC's ring in their possession to work from as a point of reference. It's one thing to work from conceptual ideas and sketches, quite another to have a tangible completed piece in front of you to dissect.

I'm glad you're happy with your final ring, it's very beautiful, Yssie... At the end of the day that's the best ending we all aspire to.

 

[crown1]

i have been following this thread and have no personal experience with any involved. i have been wondering if others are like me and are wondering why the bench is a secret. i would not even have thought about it had it not been mentioned that dbl wanted that kept quiet. if yssie was told why not reveal to others? since the quality of work is being discussed i am wondering who did the work.

both rings are lovely and i have no problem with either maker and or supplier. thanks.

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI Everyone!

I heard a very interesting quote today
"I never learned anything from someone who agreed with me"

The context was how news has become more of people wanting to hear commentators who'll tell them they are right, instead of hearing objective reports of events.

I applaud yssie- she's always been one to seek truth as opposed to some members here who seem so driven to "defend" a vendor, or an idea.

The writing of this thread was a great risk- because the likelihood of people getting upset is great- yet yssie's commitment to truth prevailed.

It's important to remember that we are all people.
It is not my intention to gloat- and it's not my intention to insult anyone.
I'd very much appreciate of other took a similar tact- but it's very unlikely to happen.


The very important take away here, for readers who are interested in even handed information, is that custom work carries risk.
How to deal with the risk is a very complex issue for vendors.
I strongly believe that any vendor who wants to succeed today can not afford to ignore the power of the internet.
I advise consumers to ask the tough questions- number one is " What happens of my custom made ring does not come out as I expect?"
IN terms of how each vendor responds, well, that's why we have this forum, right?


With regards to the hands that build our Diamonds by Lauren jewelry: I am extremely selective of who touches our diamonds. Obviously we have the experience, means and logistics to make the jewelry we do, the qualities we do, the designs we do.
If other vendors would like to publish names and phone numbers of setters, polishers or other people that work for them, it's their decision- but I'd have to say, not a smart one.
Crown- your question is a good one- yssie's post made it seem that she knew specifically who built her ring- however that is not the case. She does know the first name of the foreman of the factory- but it's a common name....

 

[crown1]

rockdiamond, thanks for the clarification.

 

[yssie]

Some thoughts.


1. Yes, we had a huge advantage in terms of design second time round, no question!!

2. This isn't about victory, or defeat, I don't have an agenda, and I'm not trying to change anyone's mind about anyone or anything. I had two rings made by two very skilled vendors and I know I learnt more than I ever expected from the experience so I imagine other consumers can benefit from it too.

3. This is also about the fact that I paid a lot of money (for me), and I do think I am justified in feeling let down (well - felt, I'm well over it now!). I expect for that price that the finished piece will come to me without clearly notable grooving on the exterior wires from the milgrain tool, with all elements polished as well as possible (the baskets cannot be polished like on the DBL after the ring is put together, this requires forethought), I expect that all sidestones will be seated in their notched prong-seats, which they were not, I expect weld joins to be as clean as possible... and I expect that I, as the consumer, shouldn't have to point out any of this stuff - I expect that the master craftsman will notice it in the look-over and just take care of it. I wasn't ever actually angry, mostly just hurt, and that last bit pretty much sums up why.

4. Yes, I have lots of expectations, and yes, it was my mistake for not discussing the issue of what happens if I don't like the result before we got started. That's something that's **super duper** important and I hope anyone considering a custom piece of any sort will take it to heart!!

5. Using the "same people" can also produce variable results, there are no guarantees in custom work beyond the vendor's guarantee of whatever clauses everyone agrees on. Sorry if my wording gave the impression that I had some insider details - I really don't, just the guy's first name!

6. HOT's ring is stunning

 

[Victor Canera]

Some thoughts.
3. This is also about the fact that I paid a lot of money (for me), and I do think I am justified in feeling let down (well - felt, I'm well over it now!). I expect for that price that the finished piece will come to me without clearly notable grooving on the exterior wires from the milgrain tool, with all elements polished as well as possible (the baskets cannot be polished like on the DBL after the ring is put together, this requires forethought), I expect that all sidestones will be seated in their notched prong-seats, which they were not, I expect weld joins to be as clean as possible... and I expect that I, as the consumer, shouldn't have to point out any of this stuff - I expect that the master craftsman will notice it in the look-over and just take care of it. I wasn't ever actually angry, mostly just hurt, and that last bit pretty much sums up why.
=

Yssie, with all due respect, I think I have an idea of making jewelry. If the milligraining was added before polishing the ring or in the assembling stages, the polishing of the ring would wear out the milligraining. Especially on gold! That is why miligraining, the really small and fine milligraining done here was added after the ring is polished. The tool will create a small scratch on the metal. Which would you have rather had, worn out (melted looking) miligrain?
The polishing of the inside of the ring is and was a non-issue. It's a matter of buffing it for 5 minutes. This was not one of your concerns and you didn't mention it to me. If you had, it would have been rectified. The last time I heard from you was "I'm still happy with the ring."

I also dis-mounted and re-mounted the center stone 2 times for you. That was the main reason you sent the ring in the first place. As you can see from the prongs that became shorter there is a down side to doing this. Since all the trellis wires are inter-connected it seems that it had an effect on the other parts too. I did everything I could to make you happy, even against my better judgement as a jeweler.

It's really fine to think about things in theory but please keep in mind the real-life considerations a person might have with the physical object.

I'm sorry but this thread seems more and more like a "gotcha" type of post.


All the best to you.

 

[yssie]

Victor, I'm sorry you feel that way. I have 13k posts on here, most of them on RT, and not a single one of them is a "gotcha" and I have no intent or reason to start now.


All the best to you as well. I am still sure that you are incredibly talented, I still take great pleasure in my engraved band from you and I wear it daily, and I'm confident that you'll have many more customers looking for your pave. I think (hope) people can take home something useful from this thread - at the very least that custom work is something that shouldn't be taken on lightly.

 

[eastwest]

east - thank you!
To recreate this specific ring would be ~5500 sans stones. If you're interested I'd suggest just giving DBL a call and chatting about what would and wouldn't be feasible in whatever the budget is - he doesn't bite
Sorry, I don't mean to be coy about what I paid but I'm not comfortable sharing that on a public forum, because that'd mean sharing other information as well that I'd rather not. I will say that in my experience what the first person paid is often different from what subsequent people will pay - whether that's higher or lower depends on a lot of things - initial custom charges, how much trouble the piece turned out to be to make, how easy it'd be to replicate, how popular they think it'd be, the original circumstances...

Well, he did offer me a pretty kitty discount on the original project we were discussing, so maybe find a Rent-A-Cat if you haven't one of your own?

Yssie thanks for the info but $5500 is a little too rich for my blood especially with no pave or diamond costs included!
How much would you expect VC, LM, SK charge for such a ring if $5500 was cheaper!!!???!

I don't own a cat, don't like them at all, very bad for my allergies, and so I wouldn't expect the cat discount or the Pricescope Chearleader discount either I'm afraid. I don't intend on posting here 13k times but I have to admire your dedication for doing so.

I do appreciate all the details in this thread it is helpful to see the closeups, but I also see the subjective nature of many of the posts here.

I would probably be quite a bit more negative in my critique of a vendor who made an expensive ring and didn't finish it to my satisfaction after which I didn't get a refund and had to have the same ring remade by another vendor.

But really I am not sure this thread should be taken as an endorsement of DBL either, they gave you a preferential discount, you micromanaged many of the details and really I can't help but feel from Rockdiamond's posts that they are using your ring and this thread as a testimonial so they receive further work.

It is far from clear to me what their normal standard of work would be without being micromanaged or when its not for a high profile pricescoper or when the design is different.

Great information and thread nonetheless thanks for starting it and diligently answering everyone's comments and questions.

 

[Victor Canera]

and I'm confident that you'll have many more customers looking for your pave.

This is a very telling post Yssie. Thank you for clearing that up.

I very much respect the contributions you've made to this forum and this community.
I think in this particular case, and this my opinion forgive me, you're leveraging your experience and number of posts quite nicely.

I would agree with you that custom design should be taken seriously, especially complicated designs. In our particular case we had 2-3 sketches to work from and the specifications you gave me, a lot of which were non-negotiable.

I've learned a lot from this experience. I will, from now on, double the amount of communications that I have with my future clients. I will create more sketches and diagrams to show what a ring might look like. I will take all suggestions for a design of a ring, and give my own input but I will not take suggestions regarding the engineering of a ring. I will also not "tweak" a design after it's been completed. Tweaking a completed piece is never ideal. I'd much rather create a whole new piece than re-work something. I think this experience will make me a much stronger company and jeweler and for that I thank you.

V

 

[yssie]

Oh boy - not what I meant, I'm sorry again! I had a strict budget that was lower than my original budget (I couldn't afford double), we talked and decided that yes, they could do it in my budget, as an experimental project. I don't want to share what that budget was or the reasons for why it was what it was on a public forum, but I'm confident that if you approach them (them being any vendor) and say "this is what I want and this is what I can spend, what can we do?" you'll most likely be able to work something out!

I hope my ring is a testimonial - it *should* be. It's just one of many though - I got to play with probably 20, 30 different rings in my visit? The vast majority were halos though, or involved pave in some way! And I hope to have another testimonial, from WF, in a few weeks

Anyway - hope that cleared stuff up a bit, I didn't mean to make anything sound sinister or strangely secretive! And thank you!



Victor - The centerstone re-orientation was not the result of me changing my mind several times as you seem to imply, it was because you neglected my original explicit instructions and later found you were unable to fulfill them. Your accusation is distasteful and insulting, and is unmerited; we have different perspectives. I am, however, happy to hear that you have gained something positive from this thread, and this experience, as have I.


*Edited.

 

[SparklyOEC]

I hope my ring is a testimonial - it *should* be. It's just one of many though. And I hope to have another testimonial, from WF, in a few weeks

Not to completely change the subject at hand, but oh my gosh, what are you working on?? Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[yssie]

I'm having them make a five-stone for my mum based off their stock Skye U-prong (and DS' antique fivestone inspired a few more tweaks ) I'm super excited about it!! I've been collecting OECs for a year now, and it'll be just in time for a late 50th birthday pressie

 

[Victor Canera]

I didn't imply or say that you changed your mind.
On my particular design, the way it was constructed and with the materials used it wasn't possible to orient the stone exactly on top of the star facets. If I had thought about it further I would have said let's not even try.
The orientation was the reason you wanted me to tweak the ring. I came as humanly possible to doing this orientation on this particular design, even though it's not a good idea from a jeweler's perspective. When I received the ring you asked for more tweaks to be made and I reluctantly did those tweaks. Reluctant because tweaks are never a good idea on a completed ring. After receiving the ring, you expressed your satisfaction with it. A week later you e-mailed and asked me for a "tweak" that would have been impossible to do on a completed ring. You asked me to change the last prong into a trellis-wire. If this was in the initial design of the ring it would have been done that way. When I said this would mean basically scrapping the ring, you said ok, I'm still happy with it. That was the last conversation that we had. This and other parts is why I feel like this is a "gotcha" thread.


V

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

I hope you don't mind me posting this. I was looking into 5 stone rings and put this together for myself.

Oh that's not fair Charmy!

It is interesting to see the comparisons of a fully cast ring to hand forged and a mix of both.

I should also point out that the budget for my ring (including the 4 diamonds) was less than the cost of one of the settings for yssies ring.

The downside to my ring (and the only thing that really bugs me about it) is the larger and bulkier prongs on the center stone. I wasn't expecting them to look this big, they are bigger than the prongs on my original e ring and it does bug me, but probably not enough to spend and extra $5k to have it remade with smaller prongs. But that is a major benefit of hand forged that i can now understand why people choose to go that route rather than a fully cast ring.

yssie, looking at this picture I can only imagine how dainty your setting must be! I look at mine and i think it's dainty and yours looks much more refined in the pictures. It must be so tiny!

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

Some thoughts.

6. HOT's ring is stunning

LOL not next to yours it isn't! Luckily we live on oppostie sides of the world.

Thank you for starting this thread. I think it took a lot of courage to do so and it will be beneficial for people who choose to go the custom route. There are many lessons to be learned from this and they will hopefully save some heartache and $$ for others in the future.

 

[sapphirering]

Thanks for starting this thread Yssie. My take is that both VC and DBL are capable of producing beautiful rings. I will most likely get a quote from both vendors in the future if I'm looking for a high end setting. I do have a slight preference for VC because I think to be able to directly communicate with the person making your ring is a plus - there's no risk of info lost in translation thru a middle man - but I can also see that there's a benefit to going to a vendor who has several benches at his disposal.

I honestly think that had you gone to DBL first and then VC, this thread will be the same except VC wouldn't be in the hot seat. So much of custom design is knowing what you want in the first place and unfortunately, it is extremely difficult to cover all possibilities until you see the ring in your hand. So my take from your very informative thread is that I would just go with a vendor whose style is in line with mine and give him/her some free rein.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Oh that's not fair Charmy!

It is interesting to see the comparisons of a fully cast ring to hand forged and a mix of both.

I should also point out that the budget for my ring (including the 4 diamonds) was less than the cost of one of the settings for yssies ring.

The downside to my ring (and the only thing that really bugs me about it) is the larger and bulkier prongs on the center stone. I wasn't expecting them to look this big, they are bigger than the prongs on my original e ring and it does bug me, but probably not enough to spend and extra $5k to have it remade with smaller prongs. But that is a major benefit of hand forged that i can now understand why people choose to go that route rather than a fully cast ring.

yssie, looking at this picture I can only imagine how dainty your setting must be! I look at mine and i think it's dainty and yours looks much more refined in the pictures. It must be so tiny!

No insult on Yssie's rings at all but HOT .. there are lots of people that prefer your ring design. I think it is gorgeous and I like it a lot.

Your ring prong tips can be thinned out WITHOUT remaking the ring. It wouldn't be difficult. I had done it many times by a skilled bench. They just sharpen it and make them nicely shaped.

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

Oh that's not fair Charmy!

It is interesting to see the comparisons of a fully cast ring to hand forged and a mix of both.

I should also point out that the budget for my ring (including the 4 diamonds) was less than the cost of one of the settings for yssies ring.

The downside to my ring (and the only thing that really bugs me about it) is the larger and bulkier prongs on the center stone. I wasn't expecting them to look this big, they are bigger than the prongs on my original e ring and it does bug me, but probably not enough to spend and extra $5k to have it remade with smaller prongs. But that is a major benefit of hand forged that i can now understand why people choose to go that route rather than a fully cast ring.

yssie, looking at this picture I can only imagine how dainty your setting must be! I look at mine and i think it's dainty and yours looks much more refined in the pictures. It must be so tiny!

No insult on Yssie's rings at all but HOT .. there are lots of people that prefer your ring design. I think it is gorgeous and I like it a lot.

Your ring prong tips can be thinned out WITHOUT remaking the ring. It wouldn't be difficult. I had done it many times by a skilled bench. They just sharpen it and make them nicely shaped.

You can DO that?!?!!

I did search for it once but couldn't find any definitive answers and I was too scared to post the question just in case i sounded like an idiot. Thanks for the hot tip!

And my most sincere thanks for the praise of my ring. I'm tickled pink.

 

[yssie]

HOT, you're kidding, right? Your ring is stunning - it must be a total jaw-dropper IRL!!

Casting, hand-forging, both have advantages, and disadvantages! Me, I've turned into a bit of a prong fiend, so handforging is the perfect tool for prongs for me (and DH was especially willing to splurge since it was all his idea!) But casting - the possibilities for the wire structs and shank integration are just endless... You can definitely have prongs thinned down a bit and shaped pointier like Charmy suggests, if you could find a good bench out there to do it! WF thinned out the prongs on my threestone a bit, and I'm remembering aldjewey's IDJ ring... ETA: here (I'd want them bigger for an everyday ering though!)


Sapphire - glad it was helpful

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

Don't get me wrong, I love it in real life, it's just looking at the photo side by side with yours it's a little confronting.

I'm definitely going to investigate having the prongs thinned out, I think then for me it would be *perfect* but finding someone in Perth who is capable of such things isn't going to be an easy task!

Thanks for the link on the ring. I'm going to check it out.

ETA Those are some yummy prongs.

 

[yssie]

OT - we were in Brisbane for 3 years and Canberra for 2 and never made it to Perth, would you believe it? DH has never been there though (I think he's been basically everywhere but!) so no doubt we'll go back at some point!

 

[Rockdiamond]

Don't get me wrong, I love it in real life, it's just looking at the photo side by side with yours it's a little confronting.

I'm definitely going to investigate having the prongs thinned out, I think then for me it would be *perfect* but finding someone in Perth who is capable of such things isn't going to be an easy task!

Thanks for the link on the ring. I'm going to check it out.

ETA Those are some yummy prongs.

HOT- I LOVE LOVE the design of your ring- really nice.
I would seriously suggest you reconsider any plans of thinning prongs out.
There are so many reasons for this - especially over time, durability will be compromised.

 

[SparklyOEC]

I'm having them make a five-stone for my mum based off their stock Skye U-prong (and DS' antique fivestone inspired a few more tweaks ) I'm super excited about it!! I've been collecting OECs for a year now, and it'll be just in time for a late 50th birthday pressie

Awww...that's really sweet! I'm excited for her. Hope you make SMTB thread for it.

 

[Laila619]

HOT, girl are you crazy?! Your ring is perfection! If I were getting a 5 stone, I would go to BGD and get exactly that ring. I seriously bet Lesley has been getting a flood of e-mails about it! (I already inquired, lol )

 

[decodelighted]

HOT, girl are you crazy?! Your ring is perfection! If I were getting a 5 stone, I would go to BGD and get exactly that ring. I seriously bet Lesley has been getting a flood of e-mails about it! (I already inquired, lol )

You can't shrink prongs proportionately past a certain point. Those don't look bulky to me at all, HOT -- and, as we've ALL LEARNED from this thread (& countless others, because this is hardly a unique situation) TWEAKING CAN CAUSE MORE PROBLEMS THAN IT'S WORTH!

 

[0-0-0]

hawaiianorangetree, I absolutely like the profile of your ring more!

Cast prongs certainly can be refined into pointy claws, BGD's work on my pendant is an example. But they are not going to look as refined as well made hand forged prongs, and in general I don't think it's a good idea to thin out prongs on an already set and completed piece.

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

LOL apparently the lesson of leaving a completed piece ALONE was lost on me!

I promise not to tamper with my rings prongs. I promise.

Thanks for the compliments guys.

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

OT - we were in Brisbane for 3 years and Canberra for 2 and never made it to Perth, would you believe it? DH has never been there though (I think he's been basically everywhere but!) so no doubt we'll go back at some point!

Yes you must visit one day! Especially in Summer. Perth really is beautiful.

Threadjack(s) over!