Custom Gemstones

[chrono]

Has anyone heard of or dealt with Daniel Stair of Custom Gemstones?
I am interested in two tourmalines from him. His website is http://www.customgemstones.com/
I will post the pictures of both.

 

[chrono]

Here''s the Paraiba Barion

 

[chrono]

Here is the bi coloured Scissor cut Paraiba

 

[widget]

I haven''t heard of them, but they sure have a neat website! Lots of eye candy!

I really like the second stone you posted...the scissor cut. Interesting how different the colors are, and they''re both Paraibas...

I found this tourmaline there. It knocks me out, too!

widget

 

[belle]

i''m no help, as i''ve never purchased from there, but i wanted to say that those are some really nice looking stones!! i tried picking out a favorite, but i couldn''t find just one that i liked! they are all sooo very nice!

*i like the second one as well

 

[MJO]

Chrono,

His cutting is very good but I would ask if this tourmaline contains copper. Only copper bearing tourmaline should be called paraiba. There is another mine in Brazil in Paraiba but it is not the same as the original material from La Mina de Sao Bathel (spelling?). This new material may or may not be copper bearing. The same goes with Nigierian Oyo Tourmaline. Some contains copper and some doesn''t even though colors may be similar. The best Nigerian Paraiba starts as amethyst colored and is heated to the blue color it is known for.

 

[valeria101]

At some point, Daniel posted a detailed explanation about what this "Paraiba" is. Aparently the greenish-blue tone prompted the name-calling, but these are obviously not the stryking turquoise blue or green expected. So... what good does copper content do without the looks ?

Here's the disclaimer from Customgemstones:

"SPECIAL NOTE regarding these Paraiba tourmalines: This particular stone has not been tested, but three out of three stones from this parcel tested positive for copper (and gold?) content using a spectroscope. The gemologist that tested them said they were the "real deal".

(link to source)

Those prices seem to cover the nice cut just fine. I certainly like those

 

[MJO]

Hi Ana,

Looks are number 1 but rarity is also a factor in pricing for those stones. Even the original find have stones that have a copper content that are not top color or clarity. These look like "normal" tourmalines but because of rarity in copper bearing tourmaline still command a premium. What I was suggesting is that if you are paying top dollar for and think you are buying a paraiba tourmline make sure it is what you are expecting.

 

[loupe]

Right, again Valeria. Neither of the two gems shown on this thread are paraiba tourmalines. The striking electric blue is a result of heat treatment and only the resulting color is technically paraiba. Paraiba is a place, yes. But the people who own the two mines in Brazil would not be very happy with anyone calling these lovely stones Paraiba because the price per carat is directly related to the color.

I see we''ve got "pigeon blood" popping up again!












"Gold there is, and rubies in abundance, but lips that speak knowledge are a rare jewel."

 

[Ymanda]

Well, nice stones.

I just want to say that the double shadow makes me think that they are using multiple lights.
So you cannot have a precise idea about the cut quality and the real brilliancy of stones in that kind of pictures.

They do not necessary have bad cut but... I prefer difuse omni lightning or single spot lightning (is this really english ??? No !!? well...)

 

[chrono]

Date: 4/8/2005 1:19:59 PM
Author: loupe
Right, again Valeria. Neither of the two gems shown on this thread are paraiba tourmalines. The striking electric blue is a result of heat treatment and only the resulting color is technically paraiba. Paraiba is a place, yes. But the people who own the two mines in Brazil would not be very happy with anyone calling these lovely stones Paraiba because the price per carat is directly related to the color.

I see we''ve got ''pigeon blood'' popping up again!












''Gold there is, and rubies in abundance, but lips that speak knowledge are a rare jewel.''

I am quite confused now. So is "Paraiba" the name for the colour or the location? I thought it was for the location and this is the first time I''ve heard that only that particular colour can be called Paraiba. Or must it be both?

 

[chrono]

Date: 4/8/2005 12:10:55 PM
Author: MJO
Hi Ana,

Looks are number 1 but rarity is also a factor in pricing for those stones. Even the original find have stones that have a copper content that are not top color or clarity. These look like ''normal'' tourmalines but because of rarity in copper bearing tourmaline still command a premium. What I was suggesting is that if you are paying top dollar for and think you are buying a paraiba tourmline make sure it is what you are expecting.

Here''s the information I got from the cutter with regards to both gemstones. Both tourmalines are copper bearing stones from the Paraiba state of Brazil. The seller of the rough didn''t have info on the specific mine or whether or not they may have been heat treated. However, the cutter seriously doubts that they have had any treatment of any kind, and one gemologist he asked stated that it would be difficult if not impossible to detect if tourmalines had been heated. So, he claims to be at the mercy of the sellers on them as a general rule. The one thing he does know is to watch out for is that certain hot pink tourmalines have been irradiated, particularly by the Germans.

And no, I''m not paying top dollar for these.

So, what do you think?

 

[MJO]

Chrono,

Both mines do have some tourmaline that contain copper. Not all of the tourmalines from a particular mine do. If you are not paying top dollar and the cutting is "DESCENT", not even good and the color is good. I wouldn''t hesitate. I now know which rough this is and where he got the rough. It''s worth it.

 

[chrono]

MJO,
You've really my curiousity perked now. I'd like to know where you think he got the rough from and which rough it is. I've attached a picture of the rough for the lighter blue green one.

 

[MJO]

Chrono,

I know the person that sold him the rough. The guy didn''t know it had copper. He bought it and had it shipped here. He told me he sold some to Daniel and that Daniel called him back and said that he had it tested and that that particular shipment had copper. The other shipments this person received from Brazil did not. As far as I know.

 

[chrono]

Oh my gosh! I feel so lucky. Daniel is selling these gemstones to me at regular tourmaline prices (with a very slight markup) because he bought these at regular tourmaline prices. He claimed they should apparaise for many times the price he''s asking. He guessed easily thousands of dollars per carat, especially for the brighter one.

I thought he was just talking nonsense (as I just liked the colour and cut and would be happy with a fancy cut tourmaline with an interesting colour). The pictures don''t look neon so maybe the saturation isn''t as great or something. Or the copper/gold content is less.

In any case, just to have a real copper bearing Paraiba, even if it doesn''t look like the original Paraiba, at this price is really something. I guess I''ll know for sure when I receive the stone. He is shipping both gemstones out to me later this week. Wahoo!

 

[MJO]

Chrono,

I forgot to tell you the rough was not treated. All tourmaline is heated after the inclussions are cut out. This decreases the chance that the stone will crack during heating.

 

[chrono]

So does this mean that if this cut gemstone is heat treated, the colour will "glow"? I''m a little confused because Loupe mentioned earlier that the neon look is due to heat treatment.

 

[MJO]

Not all Paraiba will "Glow" after heating. The darker the original tone the more they will "Glow". Heating is very dangerous in heating Paraiba. Since most stones have at least tiny inclussions and are made with copper the incussions expand causing stress on the stone during heating. This stress is often to much for the crystal to handle and the stone blows apart or at least cracks. I have tried it and the Nigerian stones have shattered into hundreds of peices. Even some of the original paraibas I've done it to got hundreds of tiny fracutes and became very included. I would say just leave it alone.

 

[loupe]

That''s exactly what you have, fancy cut tourmaline. There''s no point in calling it what it is not. That''s romancing the stone. Paraiba tourmaline is a distinct place and color.

 

[Sagebrush]

Its important not to get confused. Paraiba is a cuprite tourmline that has a particularly vivid saturation. The other source of cuprite tourmaline (so far) is Nigeria. The aficianado should be interested in gems not geography. If it is a cuprite tourmaline and has the requisite "neon" color it is desirable. If it is from the Paraiba hillside but lacks the qualities that made the location famous it is not. I have seen inferior stones from Paraiba priced dramatically higher than superior stones from Nigeria.

Forget the pedigree and look at the rock. "Buying the cert" is a big mistake that is made by civilians and professionals alike. The reputations enjoyed by Burma Ruby, Kashmir Sapphire, Paraiba Tourmaline are generalizations based on the overall look of the gems from those locations. But as a collector you should interested in gems not generalizations. It makes no sense at all to pay an inflated price for an inferior stone with a superior pedigree.

 

[coldfusion]

I''ve purchased six stones from Daniel in the past six months. They''re all beautifully cut, and his prices are very fair.

 

[Translucent]

Well, I might not know my tanzanite, but I''ve seen some top of the line paraibas.  Once you gaze upon that
particular colour, it is etched in your mind forever.  It''s just like seeing a silky cornflower Kasmir, or an elusive
pidgeon''s blood.  It''s the colour, then location of the find.

Just like all lesser sapphs and rubies, so go the paraibas.  Sure, you can call them paraibas, but they won''t
fetch the big bucks.  Very nice rocks though.