Dan Stair doesn't want PSers?!

[kenny]

Wow.
I'm copying and pasting it here for the record:

"PRICESCOPE MEMBERS - Due to my desire to concentrate on cutting more stones, I will no longer respond to your requests for additional photos and videos on the hand or in different lighting. Additionally, because of your high return rate (probably 25x normal) I will no longer knowingly sell spinels to members of Pricescope.com and any other sales to Pricescope members are final - no returns, no exceptions. I'm happy to do repairs and recuts, because that is by-the-hour labor and not something where anyone is demanding I provide free services that take me away from doing work that is actually productive. My intention is not to alienate people in general, especially those who have a history of dealing with me and being decent. I am only trying to protect myself from those who have no regard for wasting my time."

 

[T L]

Definitely more rant than policy.

I've never done business with him, so I don't know what forms of payment he accepts, but...from a purely business standpoint, there is no way you can have two different return policies for different groups of people. Visa, MC, PayPal, would not support that.

No doubt he has done enough transactions that he also know this, so this appears to be more of a way to say, "get lost!" than any actual enforceable policy.

Was there a better way to handle it? Maybe. Do I blame him? Heck no. I've worked in retail too long to not understand his frustration.
There is a very good reason you sometimes see a sign in a shop that reads: "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone".
When you are self-employed, all of your customers are your "bosses", and just like any employee, you have a right to quit a boss you perceive as unreasonable, or overly demanding (whether your boss agrees with that opinion or not).
Dan is exercising his right to choose his 'bosses', the people who pay him, and it seems he is perfectly fine with the consequences his choice may bring. I have no problem with that.

While you and other vendors can understand his frustration, how you and other vendors deal with that frustration says quite a bit. I’m quite grateful to all the wonderful vendors that have chosen more professional ways to deal with those that frustrate them. I personally returned quite a bit to one vendor (who shall remain nameless), but I would recommend him because customer service is your best advertisement. A good retailer understands this, and I know people, even me, can frustrate some vendors.

Honestly, why on earth would you even want to advertise that people are constantly returning your goods.l?! That doesn’t make me very confident in this vendor’s goods, even if I wasn’t a Pricescope member.

That being said, what about the Pricescope members that are happy with Dan? I would worry this would chase them away. This rant seems to be putting his emotion before common sense.

 

[kenny]

...
Honestly, why on earth would you even want to advertise that people are constantly returning your goods.l?! That doesn’t make me very confident in this vendor’s goods, even if I wasn’t a Pricescope member.
...

I'm not taking sides, but in all fairness, "people are constantly returning your goods" is not what he wrote or implied.
Referring to PS members, he wrote, "because of your high return rate (probably 25x normal)"
His statement reflects on (according to him) PS members, not his product.

What he wrote says nothing about how high or low his return rate is, only the difference in return rate between those he believes are PS members and those he believes are not.

 

[deorwine]

I actually am not sure what caused this difference. But one of the contributing factors might be that one vendor sells many items in the 5 k/10 k/20 k/30 k kind of price bracket (I just tried to check this info and while I wasnt that successful, at finding the page I was looking for I noticed they had things like lab grown stones for > 1k) and the other seems to sell a lot of stuff for ~$150.

Obviously that's a gross generalization, drawn from the price tags on a couple of pretty stones I clicked on.

But I think maybe the level of customer service, expected of the two may be a little different. Itd be hard to make ends meet if you sold stuff for $150 each, had to cover the cost of the rough, time cutting and photographing and then had people return it 5 times out of 6 for instance. Which honestly would not surprise me with a spinel, as they're so finicky.

My initial response was that this should be part of the business model -- as in you should be expecting returns (since it's impossible to buy gems online as a consumer and get it right 100% of the time). But the prices would probably need to be raised to deal with that. I also wonder If people have been buying gems from him and comparing them to other stones on here (typically most stones here are way out of that price 100-300 price bracket) and then returning as a result. If I was the vendor this would also make me pissed, as there's no way to win -- a $150 will not compare well to a $1500 stone.

Yep I agree with all this. I don't think you're generalizing at all (I used to haunt both those vendor's pages and have a fairly good idea of the price ranges).

If someone is charging extra money for gemstones, I don't think that's a bad thing, but then I expect a certain amount of curation and customer service.

For a cutter who just wants to cut stones and is selling them cheaply, I think it's fair that he doesn't want to deal with super picky people.

 

[Rfisher]

Only imagining
But I wouldn’t be surprised if DS got tired of being told the advice often given out on PS on what constitutes a ‘worthy’ colored gem, deemed his goods as not good and the customer requested a return.

A lot of advice here is geared for only top tier specimens. With correlating budget, which is not often the case.

Doesn’t mean his customers that are the issue with him are PS members who post.

 

[voce]

Only imagining
But I wouldn’t be surprised if DS got tired of being told the advice often given out on PS on what constitutes a ‘worthy’ colored gem, deemed his goods as not good and the customer requested a return.

A lot of advice here is geared for only top tier specimens. With correlating budget, which is not often the case.

Doesn’t mean his customers that are the issue with him are PS members who post.

I can see the possibility of a newbie here getting advice on what they should be looking for in a stone and setting unrealistic expectations for their price range, claiming they're a PS member. I think most PS members who have experience buying colored stones are not that picky as to be unreasonable or frustrating.

 

[Batgirl76]

My guess is he would be more than happy to sell to someone who said they are a Weddingbee member.

 

[Rfisher]

My guess is he would be more than happy to sell to someone who said they are a Weddingbee member.

Touché
I guess

 

[arkieb1]

O.K vendors yes some PSers are a huge pain in the ar@e, my in laws work in the trade, I get that, in fact I've lost count of the amount of PSers that have messed me around and done the same stuff you are describing when I've sold my own personal items but the comments below are highly unnecessary;

And for Jim - I thought Loupetroop was set up for non vendors ie members of the general public to list jewellery and jewellery related things for sale, so YES I'm one of the many people who it shi#s to tears when vendors like you dump massive amounts of listings on there.....

No, I have never purchased anything from either of you and I can't remember ever telling anyone on here not to purchase your stones. And I'd happy recommend your stones to people... I'm sorry you feel this way but I just don't think public rants about any customers including PSers are necessary!!!


Lee Little I used to read Pricescope and post quite a lot there but have not for years yet I clearly remember the high level of snarky attitudes they were accustomed to taking. I had some sales coming in from there but was never an 'official' Pricescope dealer.


Lee Little On Etsy I get quite a few request for pictures with different lighting or on a model so I made a listing that they buy for $10 to get 4 more pictures
Active Now
Daniel Stair Probably the same people.


Lee Little Daniel Stair never thought of that but you make a good point!


Lee Little They would predictably "see some brown" in almost any orange stone!


Daniel Stair And gray in any blue or purple stone.


Lee Little Absolutely!! They thrive on spewing criticism to the point that they imagine a color that is not there.


Daniel Stair Lee Little They are color experts. Just ask them. They will tell you all about "modifiers" (Barf).

Lee Little I remember seeing a post that a humble person showed a 'first' Emerald ring that they had bought and asked for comments (mistake). Even though it was quite good for a first Emerald and I thought she should be encouraged, instead they picked on it so badly that any joy that she had felt from that purchase was totally turned inside out. It was shameful.


Daniel Stair That sounds about right.

Lee Little On a positive note, I did have a few great contacts come from there that are still regular customers even today. Sometimes I even learned from that site as some members are quite educated in gemstones. Just the overall attitude was the repulsive factor that stopped me from reading and posting there.


Daniel Stair Yeah, me to. There are some nice people, but the bad ones spoil the whole experience there for many people.


Ankita Dial Dan, hats off to you ! I’ve recently had similar issues and I wrote on the forum to discourage them from ever buying from me because they mislead people. I get your POV totally, and frankly I wish more sellers would speak out.

Lee Little Some of them order stones "for inspection" and then return almost all of them. They are shopping from their mailbox.
Hide or report this


Daniel Stair Yeah, that is my biggest problem with them.

Maggie Shiver I had to stop reading pricescope because it epitomized the saying “a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.” I’m not an expert by any means, but I’m knowledgeable enough and confident enough to know what I like and whether or not I will be happy with something. I don’t need a guy in Iowa with an engineering degree to tell me whether my stones check out by his calculations. I might go there from time to time and see pictures...but the posts drive me insane for the most part

Angela Reddin Your cutting is too good for your work to be abused by time wasters.

Jim McCormick This will be in two parts, as I tried to post it up as one, but FB said it was to long.

“PS made him popular and now he is biting/looking the proverbial gift horse in the mouth or however that saying goes.”

https://www.pricescope.com/.../dan-stair-doesnt.../page-2

This above was just written by a PS member just today on a thread about Dan Stair, & pretty much sums up they’re very narcissistic nature. They made Dan Stair popular, but not Dan Stair himself, ad nauseum. Some there feel the gemstone revolves around them, & no one else. They are the people who make & break gemstone vendors. Not the gemstone vendor.

So, first I would like to say I’ve sold to many PS members in the past. I’ve had many good customers there, there are good people there, but I also had customers from there that thought just because they’re a Pricescope member they deserve special treatment. How many of my fellow gemstone vendors got messages from PS members about their gemstones that started out, “my name is “XXXXXXX,” I’m am “XXXXXXX” on Pricescope.” That in itself speaks volumes. There is a certain arrogance to this. Are we as vendors suppose to know what Pricescope is? Are we as vendors supposed to know who that PS member is? Many don’t. We vendors that know what Pricescope is, are we supposed to feel flattered that they would even consider speaking to us? Or, are we supposed to tremble in fear of their wrath if that PS member decides to try & smear our name all over their forum, & believe me, it has happened to vendors. Pricescope loves to put vendors on trial.

Let me explain some of my past experiences with the Pricescope forum & some, I say, some of its members.

One instance is when a lady from New Zealand was thinking about buying a blue Kashmir Sapphire & Diamond ring from me with an AGL & GIA report. She was nice to me. Had a pleasant experience with her. Then, she gets on Pricescope & ask its members if they ever heard of me. The first several replies were from people who knew of me, but never did business with me & one person was particularly nasty, calling me “a used car salesman” among other things. Then some of the PS members I did business with came to my aide & stuck up for me, & for that I thank them. But this story is not over. There was a PS member that tried to hugely lowball me on a Mahenge precision cut Red Spinel (which was well under wholesale in the first place) to which I told her, the price was firm & not a penny less, as it was an insult to the stone, & an insult to my intelligence. It was a ridiculous offer. Well, she gets on this thread & says, “I know where Jim buys his stones.” Of course, suddenly everyone was all eyes & fingers on the board. She then named someone that I had no idea who it was & said, that was my source. It was a blatant attempt to undercut & ruin me (the venom these people spew). It didn’t work, but that is not the point. I did end up losing that sale, even though more members were supportive of me, & only a few were not. It didn’t matter. The damage was done.



Jim McCormick Speaking of losing sales on Pricescope. I can probably count on all my fingers the times I lost sales on Pricescope because of someone posting the stone up in question & everyone picking it apart. One time comes directly to mind with an Opal I was selling. One of the senior members there said flat out, it won’t look like that in person. Never mind this person has never bought from me. Never mind I’ve sold almost 1000 Opals & have learned to photograph them very well. Again, most of these people have never done business with me. Never seen whether my pictures are truly an accurate representation of my stones or not, but to no matter. Pricescoper’s, as they like to call themselves, are self-proclaimed experts on photography, even though the most experience most of them have is a few hours with their smart phones. They have no idea the hours & hours we vendors put into photography of our stones. Hell, I’ve spent two days trying to get a stone right. Some of the best stones are the toughest stones to reproduce right on photos & video. Many times, these people could not be more wrong about a stone & what it really looks like in real life. It never fails to amaze me their self-proclaimed knowledge. There is a certain arrogance to this. This expertise, that turns out to be incompetence, & that person loses out on a nice stone (many times they send them to someone else who asks three or four times more for a stone no better… shaking my head in disbelief), & not just from me, but other vendors too, & that brings up another point.

There is this hugely paranoid & aggressive attitude there that it is us vendors vs. them as consumers. Us vendors use all sorts of tricks to make our gemstones look better than they actually are, which in 99% of the cases is absolutely false. But no matter, they’re convinced that were out to get their money in anyway possible, never taking the time to think this…what good does it do us vendors to make our stones look better than what they are? I mean, what good will that do us as trusted trade people? All it will do is get us our stones returned & bad reviews. Sure, there are gemstone scammers out there, but the far majority of us are very hard-working honest dealers. We want your business, not your mistrust. But mistrust is a hugely evident thing on Pricescope. & they love to scandalize us.

The forum is run like a dictatorship from both its administrators to the hierarchy (pack mentality) of the three or four members who rule the roost there. These members, which some are very negative, not to mention egos larger than the circumference of the earth, have the final say, & many of the good members, & there are many, are too intimidated to cross the queens of Pricescope. I’ve been told this by quite a few members privately. But, when you have an administrator that won’t allow even the name of “Gemologyonline” (a trade forum that welcomes consumers too) to be uttered in the written word on Pricescope, & vendors are so suppressed in what they can say whether in their own defense or answering a question about one of their gemstones that is being put on trial, you’re going to have this. I myself was banned from there because I would tell a member this vendor is a good vendor & their pictures are accurate & prices are good. I had nothing to gain by this monetarily, only trying to help. This is something I did at “Gemologyonline” with the thread I created called, “Stone(s) Of The Day.” I showcased other vendors stones in an attempt to bring vendor & consumer together. It was hugely successful, 726,000 views, & if it was not for me becoming a full-time vendor on the internet in 2013, it probably would have over 2,000,000 today. But I don’t have the time to do it anymore.

I could go on much longer here. There is much more to tell, like Pricescoper’s seem to think they are the only ones that should have access to a website called “Loupe Troop,” that allows both vendors & consumers to sale their stones & jewelry. Many complain about vendors (including myself) from selling there, to the owners of that website. Many Pricescopers could be labeled themselves as vendors, the amount of stones & jewelry they put up for sale & with a no return policy! They expect us vendors to have one, why not them? Just another example of their selfish arrogance. They say us vendors don’t want knowledgeable customers. That could not be further from the truth. But with that said, there are many, many good people on there, & sadly, I don’t see as many of them posting as they use too, as things have gotten more progressively negative there. Things have gotten out of hand. To many experts and not enough novices, or at least that is what they have themselves believe. But really, it is to many members, ruined by the few. Sad it is, & now they're finding out something us vendors have known, we don’t like how we are treated there, & treated badly there many of us have been. Very badly.


Daniel Stair I read through all the posts about me in that thread on Pricescope today. It was surprising to me how many of the members there chimed in and actually were supportive of what I did to try and protect myself from their abusive shopping practices. Then, there are the other nasty ones, like "TL" who has seemingly had it in for me for a long time. I must have told her "no free photos or videos" at one time or something, and she will never forgive me for whatever it is that I have done to piss her off. I may have refused to sell to her because she returned nearly everything. This all goes back probably 15 years or more. Anyway, she (?) made the statement that she didn't think someone like me should be on their recommended suppliers page if I didn't offer a return policy. It was all I could do not to log in and post something like, "Dear TL, please, please, please do remove my name from this website everywhere that it appears." The one clown was accusing me of not wanting knowledgeable buyers (as if those come from Pricescope, which is laughable). That thing where the jackass acted like I was biting the hand that fed me as an act of charity was equally ridiculous. If I were an owner of that group, I'd want to see what all the trade people have had to say that have commented on this discussion in support of cracking down on the unethical practices of people in that forum. They need to weed out the bad eggs that are just there to stir shit and spew their miserable negativity. Those people really ruin what could be a fun and educational place for gem lovers to get together.

Jim McCormick Yes, "TL" is the most negative member there, & one of the people no one there wants to say boo to. Nine times out of ten, this person has nothing good to say about any gemstone, no matter the vendor. She (yes, she, by looking at her rings) has absolutely nothing positive to contribute to that forum, & as far as her trusted vendors thread...it is further confirmation of her own pomposities & massive ego.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Advice on Pricescope is a two edge sword.

Whilst many newbies have been saved from paying thousands of dollars for a sketchy "Sapphire" sometimes PS creates a situation where a newbie buyer tries to live up to the impossible standards of a "guru" whilst they search for a stone.

It happens and not everyone is confident enough to say "This is my taste, thank you for your advice I'm buying Z stone."

Many people post stones seeking some sort of approval and are sent on this path where they seem to end up needing a PS approved stone to justify that it was a good purchase and for them to be happy with it.

I can see why this would frustrate some vendors.

PS should keep on PSing but I don't blame a vendor for venting his frustrations. They are only human at the end of the day and if I can have a meltdown so can they. I don't think that selling gems should mean that you need to be a constant saint no matter what.

 

[Rfisher]

Ouch.
This is going to disappear quick.

 

[lovedogs]

the quotes that @arkieb1 posted are ones I was saddened by.

 

[T L]

I never bought anything from Dan Stair or Jim McKormick. ??!!!!!!! I cannot even remember the last time I commented on any of their stones?!

People can think I’m negative if they want, but I really do enjoy this forum, and I think many of you have beautiful pieces.
????????

I think most of us would agree that return policies are important.

 

[arkieb1]

This is a consumer driven forum, the bottom line is we have prevented a lot of people buying overpriced crap that they never should have purchased. Yes lots of us say that stone is going to be too dark from photos (and yes mostly that IS the case) I generally err on the side of caution and say get it and make your own mind up, make sure the vendor has a good return policy.

There is nothing wrong with returning things you don't like especially if they cost thousands of dollars, because unlike in a shop when you purchase online you cannot go in and see it in person. If we encourage people to do that then I don't think that's a bad thing, I think that's a fair thing.... having said that there are members here that pull cr@p that no-one should have to put up with so I get how that is frustrating but, if you want to be an online vendor and market yourself as an online vender - you have to simply be prepared to put up with that.

 

[MollyMalone]

@arkieb1 -- did you "lift" the extensive passages in your post #70 from a private Facebook group?

 

[arkieb1]

@arkieb1 -- did you "lift" the extensive passages in your post #70 from a private Facebook group?

No I cut and pasted it from a public facebook post, meaning anyone can see it. People repost things from facebook all the time I am assuming I can do the same.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

It's public if you want to go look for it. I found it easily.

 

[demantoidz]

Sorry you were singled out TL. I appreciate your posts and I'm not saying that out of some social need to please a 'queen' of the forum as they put it. I think the vendor/s are overemphasizing the existence of such a social structure. Sure, the veteran posters here have more respect but (from yrs of lurking) I don't think there is pressure to agree with them on everything they post. Maybe others do feel that?

There is something ugly about this indirect conversation between this thread and the FB posts. Is either side trying to understand the other, or do we and they mostly want to read posts that agree with us or are in our favour?

 

[T L]

Sorry you were singled out TL. I appreciate your posts and I'm not saying that out of some social need to please a 'queen' of the forum as they put it. I think the vendor/s are overemphasizing the existence of such a social structure. Sure, the veteran posters here have more respect but (from yrs of lurking) I don't think there is pressure to agree with them on everything they post. Maybe others do feel that?

There is something ugly about this indirect conversation between this thread and the FB posts. Is either side trying to understand the other, or do we and they mostly want to read posts that agree with us or are in our favour?

Thank you, I appreciate that. For what it’s worth, you are all free to disagree with this “Queen of PS” on gemstones!! Lol! I won’t send you to the tower!

Seriously though, if we all agreed with each other, it would be a boring place, and heaven knows I’m not always right, nor am I an expert. I’m just a long time collector/consumer who loves gems. Gene corrected me the other day about a color opinion I had, which was great. I appreciate all the expertise here.

ETA: I may have commented on gems where people have asked for opinions, and I had no idea who the vendor was. Perhaps some of those gems were Dan’s or Jim’s. I therefore can understand their anger with me because perhaps, they lost some sales. However, what is the point of having a consumer board with opinions?

I have also made a concerted effort never to negatively comment on an owned piece unless someone is specifically asking for honest opinions. That being said, my opinion is just an opinion, and beauty is subjective, even trade ideals.

 

[arkieb1]

I think what they have written about you @T L and anyone else here, is completely uncalled for. It's unprofessional and unwarranted. It's a consumer based forum, we all have different opinions, that is what makes this place what it is.

Yes PSers are fussy, some are difficult to please, but plenty of customers in any retail situation are PITAs, that's retail, that's service industries, if any vendor doesn't like that, find something else to do....

 

[voce]

I do remember the Kashmir sapphire ring. It was nice but not the vaunted Kashmir look. I think I was one of the ones who said something along the lines of pay for beauty and not for origin, because not every stone of a famed origin is top top top quality. Still, the way I remember that thread, I believe many of us left it at "it's priced fairly for what it is, it's no great steal", and left it to the buyer to decide. That said, I do sympathize with vendors. The types of stones we are looking for as PS members are in the top 1% of stones; this is elitism. I know what I want, and this is not always what the buyer wants when they post threads (I suspect I have higher standards than someone making their first purchase), so I try to leave negative comments out except when I strongly suspect a scam, as in the case when an eBay vendor was selling a sapphire ring for $1k and claimed that it appraised at $11k.

Even I have returned garnets from trusted vendors back before I understood how easily some gems close up under direct sun. I try not to make judgement on vendor photos, as I understand they're doing the best they can to show us the true color, if they're an honest vendor and not one of those suspicious ones (see my last paragraph). If I am not 100% sold on a stone, I discuss the possibility I will be returning a stone if I don't love it IRL, and sometimes a vendor can talk me into or out of making a purchase, saving us both the time and expense. I do think that purchasing stones for inspection, with the expectation you'll only be keeping one or none, should be done only with the vendor's permission and understanding prior to the purchase. It never hurts to ask, and it's always good etiquette to ask. A fair return policy, however, is required to be considered a recommended vendor.

I understand that the vendors who made those FB posts do not care for PS business, so we should just take them off the list. I don't like how the vendors made assumptions about all PS members, but I understand they were reacting with pent-up hurt feelings. I don't know how to resolve this issue. I've been on PS about 2 years, and I've never got the "us vs them" vibe from PS until lately with this thread, and the one on gems from Rare gem lover.

 

[Batgirl76]

Mainly upper-class female customers.
Buying one-of-a-kind items.
Without seeing them in person.
For many hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars.
Sold directly by mostly male middle-class artisans.

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[whitewave]

You know, I do usually say who I am on pricescope when I send an email, not out of arrogance (seriously, no one would ever use arrogant to describe me, no matter how arrogant that sounds), but because to me it’s more familiar and I thought friendly/familiar/folksy even.

I’ve never encountered a vendor who didn’t know what PS is, even if they vocalized negative comments about this website or to say something like “I don’t visit there any more”...

I usually say it at the end of an email, under my name, so not sure if that makes a difference in tone setting?

I don’t know how I feel about Jim dude’s comments about this. I don’t know who he is so I’m not sure if I should consider what he says from his point of view. Seriously, it’s arrogant to say you are on pricescope?

Am I the only one who keeps remembering Alex Park’s comments about how PSers are mosquitoes on the butt hole of something??

Idk. I kind of find the whole thing amusing. They can do what they want.


Excuse typos, in car

 

[whitewave]

Also, who is Anika Dial?

 

[qubitasaurus]

Also, who is Anika Dial?

Her PS user names are Gemobsessed and Raregemlover. I think the first account is deleted (it may have just been blocked and then had certain posts deleted. Or they may all have been deleted, I truthully really dont know what happened to it.).

Actually I think I am the prime example for why the vendors dont want to institute no returns policies.

I have never returned a stone. Many of them were simply at a price tag where if they went missing in the mail I would not be able to reasonably justify ever buying another one to my husband. Since I am not in the US, there was no insured post etc. So i kept them all.

But I have bought very very little as a result. I still think all the stones I own are lovely, but it is less than 1/4 the number I would own if I could return. I am only really beginning to buy more now, as I realise that there are some awesome options and people arround me here locally. (Honestly I was close to giving up before.).

If all their customers turn into me (unable to return), they'd all stop buying off the internet. And I think the whole business model of selling gems online would collapse.

TL I am sorry -- that was actually just straight up nasty. Especially since it was full of false accusations, which is super unprofessional and very wrong of them.

 

[whitewave]

I’ve only returned the one Litnon stone. We had a great lengthy back and forth email relationship for a few days lol. Good times. We had a lot of the same interests and had a lot to talk about.

(As far as I remember. I really think I only returned one stone.)

 

[arkieb1]

**removed by moderator, inappropriate**

But seriously I remember when you have dumped listing after listing on Looptroop, in fact the rule about 12 items or whatever it now is per month is probably due to the amount of items you listed on there, and the multiple complains people have made - but O.K list 12 or whatever the rule is per month, stop being an **edited by moderator, no name calling please, one and only warning** and list a few at a time (which I think you have to now do, because they have changed the rules so vendors can't do mass listings) because I reported everyone that did list many things all at once over and over again.

LoopTroupe isn't owned by PS but everyone who is not an idiot knows that PSers post their stuff there and look at it a lot, so again you want to trash PSers but hey, you can't stay away from there, so basically you want to call out a specific customer base that as far as I can see you and other vendors doing all the bitching still chase clearly as customers.

The fact you are clearly both reading this on here also proves this theory, you bag out PSers yet you are on here reading what they write about you....

I have nothing against you and Dan, you have beautiful stones. I'm merely pointing out that I don't think it's appropriate to chase our business (which I guess you are going to say is arrogant of me to observe) and then have a public hissy fit when it doesn't work out for you....

Dan - I've recommended your cutting on here to several people.

Jim - I've never told anyone I can remember not to buy anything from you.... the only point we disagree on is LT and the way you are now handling this whole thing against PSers.

Like I said my family work in the trade in an actual shop day in day out my mother in law has some pretty horrible people go in there from time to time and none of them are PSers, unfortunately that is part of owing and working in retail, every business has bad customers, how politely and gracefully they deal with them is the difference between a good vender versus a bad vendor.

I've had multiple PSers mess me around, leave me out of pocket, trash me on here and so on when selling my own personal items. But for every PSer that was difficult and rude there are many more that were decent and genuinely lovely people. It really saddens me that you both feel the need to have to vent about PSers in such a way. In private O.K but on a public place like F/B, it's sad to me that you both work in online retail and you can't see how it's completely inappropriate.



Jim McCormick BULLETIN! BULLETIN!

This, fresh from Pricescope!

“Mainly upper-class female customers.
Buying one-of-a-kind items.
Without seeing them in person.
For many hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars.
Sold directly by mostly male middle-class artisans.

What could possibly go wrong?”

As I said, many good people there, then there are these people.

Kind of funny actually! Nothing like proving our point, through someone else’s fingertips.

Please excuse my middle classness. Neve could understand want the “upper-middle class” wanted. Just a dull tool here.

Daniel Stair I consider myself to be low class, so not worthy of being blessed by such royalty. Those people are friggin' nuts!

Jim McCormick Daniel Stair Well, you know, the earth isn't perfectly round.

Jim McCormick “And for Jim - I thought Loupetroop was set up for non vendors ie members of the general public to list jewellery and jewellery related things for sale, so YES I'm one of the many people who it shi#s to tears when vendors like you dump massive amounts of listings on there....."

Sorry, have to answer this from "arkieb1." As I know she'll read it.

"Loupe Troop" is open to private sellers & vendors alike. Always has been. As far as myself dumping my stones on there, I’ve put up a whole 12 stones in two months. That is not even two a week. So, please be nice & learn to share. Also, some of you so called private sellers, sale a lot of stones & jewelry, to the point of being vendors yourself, but hide behind the private seller no return clause.

Funny enough, some of you PS’ers complain at times about a no return policies there from your own members & say, I avoid no returns.

I have an FB group that both consumers & vendors are welcome to list their stones for sale. Loupe Troop” is a sales site. Live & let live, & we may all get along.

My apologies, Dan. Last time I’ll use your page to indirectly converse with Pricescope, but I had to reply to this.

Daniel Stair No problem at all. Have at it. I have opened this can of worms and hope some good comes from it somehow, even if it's a thing of everyone venting and then maybe some healing happens over time.

Jim McCormick Daniel Stair Very well could be. Yes, that would be nice. But I sure as hell enjoyed finally having my say on Pricescope! It was almost as good as sex!

Jim McCormick I do also have to sincerely thank "arkieb," for coping & pasting some of what we wrote, & giving me this wonderful opportunity!

 

[amoline]

I guess my final word is I just think this whole thing is sad. Because I teach high school kids, I can say that this feels more petty on all sides than one of their feuds.

I think it was in poor taste to go after PS members as a group - maybe just institute the restock among those who have ever returned more than 5 gemstones, and then you're making solid money off of peoples' returns.

Likewise, I think it's boorish to be copying and pasting Facebook conversations where usernames are still hyperlinked to peoples' personal accounts where there are pictures of their children, and then having this sort of back and forth conversation across websites. I mean, c'mon.

At the end of the day, without being able to speak for him, I'd venture to say that Dan is simply (understandably) upset at people who took advantage of his goodwill and generosity of time. If he were charging 5x the amount for stones than he currently is, I'm sure he wouldn't care about taking time to do videos and extra photos. But the fact is he doesn't, and that's something that imho makes him a very good guy, and something for which PS members should be lauding him.

And on the other hand, nobody likes being generalized, and I'm sure there are more good than bad folks on PriceScope. Professionals of any industry really hate consumer boards as a generalization. I've spent tens of thousands of dollars on photography and lighting equipment and learning a craft and then it makes me want to pull my hair out when someone comes along to a photography forum and says "Got a nice new camera and my cousin wants me to photograph her wedding - how should I go about doing it?"

But, I think some people on PriceScope need to have a realistic talking to with ourselves. So many members here have come to expect high, custom level service at prices that are razor thin margins for vendors. And at some level you don't get to have your cake and eat it, too. If you want super service and treated like royalty, AND top quality products, go to a big design house. You'll end up paying handsomely for that treatment though. You can afford this business model if you're doing bunches of diamonds like HPD or WF or something, but Dan's business is not to sell a ton of high end diamonds for 5 figures.

You can say what you want about how the whole thing was handled on any side, but at the end of the day I'm sure there are plenty of vendors with this level of frustration and it just so happens that Dan and others had the final straw.

Just my 2c- feel free to take as one wishes.

 

[arkieb1]

Yep, I'm taking it personally because PSers are like a family to me, believe me having a family that work in rocks, crystals, gemstones, fossil, minerals and gemstones in a full retail environment, I see all sides of the arguments you are making here.

I called you **edited by moderator, no name calling please, one and only warning** for listing stacks of things on LT, and now you seem to be denying that is true. For years and years you were the running joke on PS about how many items you listed on LT, there are multiple posts complaining about this. When the Indian vendors also turned up, then it completely turned into a s@#tshow. So yes I complained over and over as did many people here and the only reason you are no longer listing huge amounts of things on there to be blunt is Loupetroop now has policies to prevent anyone from doing so.

You cannot deny that at some point over the years you have been posting on LT that you have chased at least some PSers business.

Dude you made the comment about the sex, my reply was a joke back, so you can dish it out and "it's not personal" but you can't take it....

You and Dan can do as you please, put policies that say if people return x amount of stones then you won't be selling them any more stones, put policies that stones under a certain amount are not returnable, I really personally don't care, what I do care about is that you all feel the need to attack PSers when most of us are actually decent people.

All any vendor has to do is change their policies to guard against any buyers messing them around - I don't think you have to specifically target PSers to do that. It saddens me you feel the need to do so.

O.K I too am done.


Jim - I said 12 post in two months, not one month. I never said I was limited to 12 post for one month. I’m not, & yes, there are many Pricescoper’s there on Loupe Troop. There are also many people who have never heard of Pricescope there, as I can attest to some of the sales I made there. But you I think, may be a tad upset & did not read clearly what I wrote.

I’m just trying to make a living like anyone else, & if I’m ****** for truthfully giving you & everyone else my honest opinion & experience with Pricescope, so be it. I would not expect any less from a group of people who cannot take any criticism at all, & feel secure that the Admins of the site do not let us, the vendors, have any avenue of recourse to either answer questions or defend ourselves of any wrongs or misconceptions put upon us, either on purpose or not. Whether you & some of the Pricescoper’s want to admit it or not, much of what I wrote is true. I did not call people names in my first comment. I was not unduly rude. I did not single anyone out in my first comment. I even said several times there are many good Pricescoper’s, but there we have it again, you people take out of context just about everything a vendor says you don’t like, so be it again. I tried to explain my experience, you don’t want to hear it. Good for you. As for me, I stand behind everything I wrote.

As far as **this is a family friendly forum, please use appropriate language**!!!" Which you wrote. That is a very petty & emotional comment, but one that does not surprise me. I have many customers that I have interactions with weekly & more. They can vouch I’ve always been fair & give the best customer service I can. I always try to make doing business a pleasant experience with my customers, & they with me. But I have no time for people who make something that should be simple & pleasant into a major problem. Live is too short for that.

I will not return anymore comments from you or anyone else written from this thread on Pricescope. I said my peace. With that said, I wish you all well & a goodnight.

 

[ShinyPink]

Well, this certainly has gone exactly how I thought it would.