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De Beers undercuts the man made diamond price

blueMA said:
I read a review on Amazon where a husband ordered two pairs of mmd studs for his wife and returned the worse pair - I say he was smart!
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I could see knowledgeable consumers doing exactly this if DeBeers has a decent return policy on these MMDs: Ordering 2 or 3, doing a quick check on the light return with an IdealScope, and keeping the best of the bunch.

...Not that I'm getting any ideas or anything... ;)2


tkyasx78 said:
Releasing horribly cut or included product would be a great way to ensure that the debeers name would be linked to inferior product.

Once word spread they were not quality- they would be losing the 94 million they sunk into it.
But stranger things have happened
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Yep, I honestly cannot see them purposely cutting these poorly. Rough waste won't be as much of an issue with MMDs, and automated cutting is becoming so advanced with cheap costs (just look at some of the well-cut CZs and moissanites coming out of China) that I expect that they'll at least have a somewhat decent cut quality.

Watch the video on this page. It looks like they are holding actual stones in the video (not computer renderings) and they all look decently cut with pronounced arrows.

https://lightboxjewelry.com/pages/laboratory-grown-diamonds?utm_source=bronto&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Watch+how+we+make+our+lab-grown+diamonds&utm_content=How+do+we+make+our+lab-grown+diamonds?&utm_campaign=[EMAIL+MARKETING]+what+is+a+lab-+grown+diamond+-+070618&_bta_tid=39133540375476420883135429272002636890885614488055153238588163339458501579841378565000840258592988239663
 
Anyone know if these would be available only in US or even in other parts of the world like Europe etc.?
 
While I wouldn’t want one of these as an e-ring etc... I honestly would try these out, especially after seeing the video. They’re really pushing these as a cheap ‘fun’ alternative with their marketing and using sterling silver settings. That’s just as well for someone who doesn’t care for their settings :)

The way I see it... this is a good option for cheaper project stones in colours.
 
 
TreeScientist said:
:lol-2:

Whoops, I just copied the link directly from my e-mail hyperlink. Didn't pay attention to the track clicks included.

Now I feel like my tech-averse mother. :mrgreen:
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It comes to us all :D lol
 
I agree with @TreeScientist. In the video he linked it looks to me like their head research tech is wearing one or two of their pendants. I would imagine they are building up a serious stockpile in order to meet the expected Holiday demand and have allowed their team to test things out in the interim.
I think they will protect their brand by having a reasonable cut it may be closer to GIA excellent than what we expect from WF, BGD, Wink etc.
 
KingKuda said:
I think you are really under estimating this. The market for 'fake' products around the world is huge, let alone for 'fake' products that actually have the same characteristics as the real product and can't be told apart.
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You’re right, there is quite a market for fake products that look real.
But there will always be a place for those of us that don’t play that game. I’d much rather have a small REAL diamond than a huge MMD. It would drive me insane to know it’s not a real diamond from the earth.
I just recently found out that while a couple of my handbags aren’t fake, they aren’t truly the real deal. They are bags “made for outlet.”
Yes, they still look nice, and I get lots of compliments on them, but I won’t be buying anymore of those.
I’ll save up for a REAL $1,000 purse.
 
Miki Moto said:
I don't know one person who has a fake diamond ring. I know people who do not care about diamond rings, but they do not go out and buy a fake one. How many people do you know have fake diamond rings? This is about diamonds, not fake handbags or fake polos.
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I know someone!!!!
An aquantance came to me about getting a bigger stone in her engagement ring (she’s not even married yet BTW), and I gave her the tools to choose a good diamond for a good price.
What did she do? She marched back into Samuels where the ring was purchased, and they talked her into a $4,000 2 carat MMD.
I mean I get it, they have the same properties as real diamonds, but at the end of the day they aren’t real diamonds.
Just like the cultured stone that my husband puts on houses. Most people think it’s real stone, but it’s not. And let me tell you what, one of his customers was shocked and disappointed when she found out it’s not real river rock.
My aquaintace will be really shocked in 10 years when her MMD isn’t worth more than a few hundred bucks, maybe less if DeBeers kills the MMD market.
 
Miki Moto said:
I don't know one person who has a fake diamond ring. I know people who do not care about diamond rings, but they do not go out and buy a fake one. How many people do you know have fake diamond rings? This is about diamonds, not fake handbags or fake polos.
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I know of 3 people for 3 entirely separate reasons. One because they couldn't afford the size she wanted, another COULD afford the size she wanted but she thought spending that much on a real diamond was ridiculous. The final one was purely for environmental and social concerns. To each their own...I personally would feel like a poser wearing a MMD unless I made sure that anyone who complimented me knew it wasn't a mined diamond.
 
MTHealthyLiving said:
You’re right, there is quite a market for fake products that look real.
But there will always be a place for those of us that don’t play that game. I’d much rather have a small REAL diamond than a huge MMD. It would drive me insane to know it’s not a real diamond from the earth.
I just recently found out that while a couple of my handbags aren’t fake, they aren’t truly the real deal. They are bags “made for outlet.”
Yes, they still look nice, and I get lots of compliments on them, but I won’t be buying anymore of those.
I’ll save up for a REAL $1,000 purse.
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When I was buying a diamond for my SO her requirement was that it had to be a diamond, so MMD was OK, but not moissanite or CZ. Thank god at the time MMDs weren't selling for that much less than mined diamonds or I might have gone the MMD route.

Ignoring the value preservation argument, I don't see anything inherently inferior or unreal about a diamond grown in the lab as opposed to a diamond dug out of the ground by some poor miners in Africa. If the man made ones get cheaper, well, weddings are too expensive as it is, so maybe that's a good thing.

As for your "not the real deal" handbags, you're not paying 1,000 dollars for the cowskin, I'll tell you that much. Most of that money is going to pay for the brand. So if the brand is willing to put their logo on a lesser quality product, or insinuate they sold you a lesser quality product, you might want to reconsider if you want to buy from them at all.
 
HDer said:
When I was buying a diamond for my SO her requirement was that it had to be a diamond, so MMD was OK, but not moissanite or CZ. Thank god at the time MMDs weren't selling for that much less than mined diamonds or I might have gone the MMD route.

Ignoring the value preservation argument, I don't see anything inherently inferior or unreal about a diamond grown in the lab as opposed to a diamond dug out of the ground by some poor miners in Africa. If the man made ones get cheaper, well, weddings are too expensive as it is, so maybe that's a good thing.

As for your "not the real deal" handbags, you're not paying 1,000 dollars for the cowskin, I'll tell you that much. Most of that money is going to pay for the brand. So if the brand is willing to put their logo on a lesser quality product, or insinuate they sold you a lesser quality product, you might want to reconsider if you want to buy from them at all.
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Oh believe me, I will spend my dollars on a good brand handbag.
Don’t get me wrong, I have some nice genuine ones as well, but I want a super nice one some day.
I wouldn’t turn down a Chanel, Hermès, or a Fendi! Lol!
 
"as opposed to a diamond dug out of the ground by some poor miners in Africa."

I'm sure they'd rather be working at a Starbucks or an Apple store, or even driving for Uber rather than grubbing in the dirt to scratch out a living. Maybe it's a case of work at the jobs available or starve. Maybe buying their diamonds keeps their families fed. Just a thought.
 
Johnbt said:
"as opposed to a diamond dug out of the ground by some poor miners in Africa."

I'm sure they'd rather be working at a Starbucks or an Apple store, or even driving for Uber rather than grubbing in the dirt to scratch out a living. Maybe it's a case of work at the jobs available or starve. Maybe buying their diamonds keeps their families fed. Just a thought.
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Exactly.
I’m sure my hubby and his crew would rather work at Starbucks or Apple in air conditioning, but doing hard labor for rich people is what pays the bills.
And if there wasn’t rich people wanting marble tile and stone fireplaces, we wouldn’t have had food on the table for the last 18 years.
 
diamondprice.jpg
Someone posted a price list from a Chinese MMD supplier on Reddit. Looks like De Beers will undercut the Chinese by quite a large margin.
 
blueMA said:
I read a review on Amazon where a husband ordered two pairs of mmd studs for his wife and returned the worse pair - I say he was smart!
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Agreed - if it's a business that only has a virtual storefront, I don't see anything wrong with ordering what you are considering and keeping only the one(s) you want. That's the tradeoff vs. having a brick & mortar where you can see/touch/try the items before you buy.
 
cokitty said:
I agree with @TreeScientist. In the video he linked it looks to me like their head research tech is wearing one or two of their pendants. I would imagine they are building up a serious stockpile in order to meet the expected Holiday demand and have allowed their team to test things out in the interim.
I think they will protect their brand by having a reasonable cut it may be closer to GIA excellent than what we expect from WF, BGD, Wink etc.
Click to expand...
When depth of material is the constraint you will get more of the diamonds I like. And all the people who see others wearing them (as opposed to many who want to look at the stones from 2 inches rather than enjoy them in social settings).
 
Have they actually stated a date they will begin selling? Have other MMD retailers started to lower their prices in anticipation?
 
I wear cz for fun, so I definitely wouldn’t turn my nose up at a MMD! Lol!

And I can hardly imagine giving my mom one for Xmas... she’d be blown away!

I eagerly anticipate seeing how this all goes down. But even at $800/carat, that’s about $1000 Canadian, so I’d have to really want it. It’s a good deal for an e-ring but kind of pricey for just fun bling.
 
pearaffair said:
I wear cz for fun, so I definitely wouldn’t turn my nose up at a MMD! Lol!

And I can hardly imagine giving my mom one for Xmas... she’d be blown away!

I eagerly anticipate seeing how this all goes down. But even at $800/carat, that’s about $1000 Canadian, so I’d have to really want it. It’s a good deal for an e-ring but kind of pricey for just fun bling.
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This is indeed true. There are so many indebted millennials who still live with their parents (who can't get rid of them), and wearing decent sized mined diamonds for "fashion" isn't trivial while CZs and other substitutions are available. However, the MMDs are not exactly the most affordable commodity either, so it might ironically become a sort of aspiration luxury items for the financially strapped younger generations.
 
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blueMA said:
This is indeed true. There are so many indebted millennials who still live with their parents (who can't get rid of them), and wearing decent sized mined diamonds for "fashion" isn't trivial while CZs and other substitutions are available. However, the MMDs are not exactly the most affordable commodity either, so it might ironically become a sort of aspiration luxury items for the financially strapped younger generations.
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Yeah, I could see that happening!

I’m a millennial and I’m in the range of receiving ~$100 gifts for bday and Xmas. A MMD necklace would still be out of range... unless the sellers in China are able to undercut debeers.
 
The near colorless DeBeers product will likely be reasonably well cut, colorless to nearly so, mostly free of inclusions, but not necessarily flawless, but surely better than eye-clean at 12 inches in good lighting.
Since it will be sold as the upscale and far ore durable replacement to CZ, who needs to apply a "grade" to it? It is DIAMOND, but of no long term value based on non-existent rarity. Differentiation due to grading that works in natural gem materials means nothing without rarity. I see no basic difference in this when it comes to the fancy colors DeBeers will offer to sell, either.

We don't see Lab grown rubies or Lab grown Alexandrite being "graded" by GIA or AGL. There are pretty enough, but NOT rare. The same will apply to MMD in much the same way.

If you want to buy a MMD you should not pay a premium for D-IF over F-VS2. There is no reason one is worth more than the other. These do not meet the definition of "rare". That's may opinion and you can do what you wish. Both diamonds will be the same in their utility and appearance. Neither will have much, if any, long term value although they will be wonderful in use and last "forever". They should be inexpensive to begin with since a lab can make as many of them as needed. I doubt the cost of manufacturing these MMD will increase over time, but instead I suspect the cost to make them will decrease in just the way most technology gets cheaper as it becomes mainstreamed and well distributed. Competition also drives down prices and profits.

So, when you do decide to buy a pair of such MMD for a set of earrings, you will likely be able to put your hand in a large bag full of the size stones you'd want, pull out two and find they visually match nicely. Get some inexpensive mountings and voila! Grading them should not matter if they look like they match right out of the bag of diamonds to everyone who sees them. Of course, some of the public will want them graded and perfectly matched. That's cool and fine. Expect to pay more for graded and scientifically matched ones. Is there a big market for that type of matching and grading? I don't think there is if the ungraded ones all look really nice and are substantially less costly. That's where I see this heading just based on the free market and knowing about the historical preferences of the consumer.
 
Interesting that the reaction of some MMD companies is positive - looks like they will be shooting for the 1ct+ and/or graded market, which DeBeers are doing their very best to disparage!
 
I've heard one synthetic retailer say sales have increased since the De Beers announcement. Not sure if I trust him or not though.

Garry said he had also talked to some people at JCK and was working on an article as well. Wonder if he can corroborate the general upbeat attitude of the synthetic companies.
 
HDer said:
I've heard one synthetic retailer say sales have increased since the De Beers announcement. Not sure if I trust him or not though.

Garry said he had also talked to some people at JCK and was working on an article as well. Wonder if he can corroborate the general upbeat attitude of the synthetic companies.
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I'm inclined to trust it - not many people were aware that there's such a thing as MMD that's indistinguishable from mined diamond for jewelries. They're probably going for the immediate cost savings regardless of the near future depreciation.
 
Except that MMD are much rarer than mined stones. Can there always be more? Well, first you need a factory or two.

Mined stones are in high demand; MMD are not. If everyone walking around with a diamond on their finger got tired of the things at once the market would feel price shocks that would make this development seem like a little drop of rain in the ocean.
 
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