Depressed -- fiance''s brother just engaged and announced plans to marry a couple months before us

[ljmorgan]

elle,

I completely understand and I''m sorry that some people are jumping all over you. Is there a logical way to apprach the situation? Of course. However, this is your engagement period, and your wedding, and I know that you want it to feel special. Let''s be honest -- so much of the fun of being engaged is just enjoying it, and enjoying the new attention and focus on your happy new life, and you want to share that with your family. It sort of cuts into your planning and attention when someone in the family is doing the exact same thing as you (right on front of you.)

Obviously, it would have been considerate of this girl to consider your wedding -- the bad news is that she didn''t. And you have every right to feel short-changed because honestly, you will be. Your weddings will be compared, your planning and wedding may be an afterthought to some. Weddings take so much energy from everyone, especially the family -- it''s hard being the second wedding right after another.

Does this fundamentally affect you? No, you''re marrying the man of your dreams! But I AM sorry that your special time definitely has a hiccup now. There is no easy solution to ease this problem. Ideally should would have thought of you, but she didn''t. I would say leave your wedding date as it is, and try to ENJOY your time... or... bump it up

Good luck!

 

[aljdewey]

ALJ,
I don''t know what I am going to do from here. You are right, dwelling on the coulda/shoulda/woulda isn''t going to solve anything or change was has happened already. I am hoping that going forward, brother + fiance approach this situation a bit more delicately than they have, if anything, just to aknowledge that my fiance and I are upset about it.

I think Deco made a good point here. I think they believe they HAVE handled it as delicately as they can....and you''re not happy. So, if you aren''t happy, it''s up to you to verbalize precisely what will mitigate this for you. That means rolling up your sleeves, asking for all of you to get together, and being candid about how you feel and what would make it feel less hurtful to you.

Elle, people aren''t mind readers, and they aren''t going to magically know what constitutes "more delicately" to you unless you open your mouth and tell em. Plain and simple. Milquetoasts don''t get what they want in this life.....you have to ask for it.

I am trying to act like a grown-up, really, I am. I''ve vented my frustrations to my fiance and to everyone here, so that I don''t say something hurtful to fiance''s brother, or to their mom (about brother''s fiance). I''m trying to put it all out of my mind (not doing a good job on that I''m afraid), and I''m hoping time will mellow things a bit.

I know you are, and it''s great that you''re getting it out here. But you also have to figure out how you''re going to move on from here. These people are going to be a part of your life for a really really long time.

Fiance says that we should plan our wedding as before, and if they decide to go before us, screw ''em, we won''t let it ruin our wedding plans and our times that should be happy and special. Of course I agree, but I will still be hurt and upset if they get married before us. How to handle it? I don''t know. Suck it up and put on a happy face?

Your fiance is a smart, smart man.

He''s right. I don''t think "suck it up and put on a happy face" is gonna be an easy pill to swallow.

Instead I''d suggest this: acknowledge that you''re disappointed, get it all out of your system, and then realize that it honestly doesn''t matter. Really. You will still marry the man of your dreams, and the poeple who care about you will all come. I promise. Send out your save the dates plenty early so people can make plans accordingly.

Even though I''m sure I''ll do the right thing and grin and bear it (which is very difficult, but its not the hardest part), how do I change my feelings? How do I stop feeling hurt and upset? That''s the hard part. How do I go on the planning trip and keep myself from feeling like I want to strangle her?

I don''t think you have to change your feelings, and you don''t even have to hide them. I think part of why you''re having such a hard time with managing them is because you haven''t had a sit-down with them all to calmy express why you''re hurt and disappointed. Be candid and tell your FSIL that this has put an awkward crimp in your relationship that you''re sure you''ll overcome with time, but that it''s gonna take a bit of time for you to stop feeling crappy about it. It''s OK to be honest about it....and I think doing that would deflate the intensity of how you feel.

It''s fine to FEEL that way. Deal with the feelings, but don''t let them dictate how you''re going to act or let them make you petty. You''re a mature, educated woman about to be married. That''s the role you should aspire to.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/28/2006 6:55:49 PM
Author: ellewoods
Ephemery,

I''ll make a clarification -- brother''s fiance was NOT worried about our reaction. Brother''s fiance didn''t care.

Fiance''s brother, however, did have a hard time telling my fiance of the August plans. His brother didn''t state that he was ''worried about our reaction,'' but his brother did say that he has been having a really tough time dealing with this (his fiance''s August plans), and that he had been putting himself in our shoes and thinking about how he would be upset if roles were reversed. He knew it would be upsetting to anyone in our situation.

Fiance''s brother told me yesterday, ''I have looked at this over and over from your guys'' standpoint and that is why I am trying to figure out ways to somewhat make it easier on you guys. My brother said that for him one of the largest issues was that it was so close in time to your wedding, so we are going to try and look in June to make a bigger gap in between the two.''

Another clarification -- As far as brother''s fiance having ''planned'' to get married in the summer of 2007 ages ago -- this was not the case. In May when we got engaged and were with the brothers'' family at a large event (first time we had seen any family after getting engaged), she basically thew a fit about it, sulked, and picked a fight with fiance''s brother about not being engaged yet. She also basically started picking a fight with me -- declaring that she absolutely had to get married in the summer, she could never get married any other time, she would get married in the summer no matter what. And at some point she said that she absolutely would not wait until summer 2008 to get married.

Let me remind everyone -- she was not engaged yet, not even near being engaged. She was talking about her wedding plans for whichever guy she ended up marrying -- not about established plans that she and fiance''s brother had made or anything like that.

So there were no established plans made by her + fiance''s brother, there was no date ''chosen,'' nothing like that. There was just her throwing a fit because she wasn''t engaged yet, her declaring to me that she was getting married in summer no matter what, and I just thought she''d calm down and act normally once she got engaged herself. I never dreamed that we''d be in this situation.

Sweetie, she may not have been engaged yet, but it''s pretty clear she knew what she wanted. Not only that, she verbalized it pretty strongly.

The thing was, you didn''t think it would be an issue because you were reasonably sure that future BIL wouldn''t propose. (Unfortunately, he did).

And so you didn''t think about/worry about her declarations when making your plans. And you assumed that being engaged first meant that no one else would marry before you because that feels like proper protocol to you. All fair.....but not happening now.

While it may feel brutish, she doesn''t have to be engaged first to decide when her wedding will be. As long as her FI goes along with it, it''s happening.

 

[aljdewey]

To be clear, I''m not jumping on you, Elle. I think you''re entitled to feel however you feel.....but I hope that you are able to rise above it.

Life''s a bitch. People let us down all the time. It''s tough when people don''t act the way we think is proper, and the way we''d act in their shoes. It''s crappy and it''s disapponting, no doubt. ...but it''s a fact of life.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 9/28/2006 6:33:55 PM
Author: ellewoods
I'm not perfect or Pollyanna by any means, but I really wouldn't do to them, what they're doing to us.

I *totally* believe you too! I *don't* think you'd do it!

But how do I make selfishness work in my favor here? Should I forget October and move our wedding to May? Should I refuse to go to her wedding? Should I be a complete nasty witch to her next time I have to endure being in her presence? Refuse to go to Mexico if she's there?

Nah ... none of the above IMHO.

Is this the only inconsiderate thing she's done to you personally? I know you have a lot of thoughts about her character from other people's perceptions and some of her personality traits ... but if she hadn't been a constant "bee" to you ... I kinda think you should kill her with kindness.

At this point I feel like the most I can do to be the bigger person is to give her the complete silent treatment whenever I have to be around her. Don't speak to her, don't aknowledge her, ignore her completely. She might not care. But I can't pretend to be nice, and I can't bite my tounge and be civil.

I fear this is actually going to reflect poorly on you by making you seem like a "bad sport".

What about this? Invite her to lunch. Have a heart-to-heart about how to handle making sure both of your weddings are individual and unique, without too many overlapping parts - SINCE they're gonna be two months apart with some of the same guests. Treat her with respect, like you're ASKING her HELP on how to figure this out. If you "befriend" her, you can MAKE SURE you're not duplicating ideas. It's sneaky, but it doesn't have to be manipulative. You many end up genuinely liking her ... your fiance's brother does! It will mean the world to his family & you'll end up looking like a LIVING DOLL. Compassion isn't just about actions. It's really looking deep within to try to *understand* the other person's feelings. A lot of us seem to see her side too - so I don't think it's CRAZY out-there .. or that she must be a horrible person to have done this to you. Selfish, yes. Unforgiveable, I don't think so ... do you?

Now for the imp. part ... who's ring is prettier!

 

[cara]

Date: 9/28/2006 6:55:49 PM
Author: ellewoods
Ephemery,


I''ll make a clarification -- brother''s fiance was NOT worried about our reaction. Brother''s fiance didn''t care.


Fiance''s brother, however, did have a hard time telling my fiance of the August plans. His brother didn''t state that he was ''worried about our reaction,'' but his brother did say that he has been having a really tough time dealing with this (his fiance''s August plans), and that he had been putting himself in our shoes and thinking about how he would be upset if roles were reversed. He knew it would be upsetting to anyone in our situation.


Fiance''s brother told me yesterday, ''I have looked at this over and over from your guys'' standpoint and that is why I am trying to figure out ways to somewhat make it easier on you guys. My brother said that for him one of the largest issues was that it was so close in time to your wedding, so we are going to try and look in June to make a bigger gap in between the two.''


Another clarification -- As far as brother''s fiance having ''planned'' to get married in the summer of 2007 ages ago -- this was not the case. In May when we got engaged and were with the brothers'' family at a large event (first time we had seen any family after getting engaged), she basically thew a fit about it, sulked, and picked a fight with fiance''s brother about not being engaged yet. She also basically started picking a fight with me -- declaring that she absolutely had to get married in the summer, she could never get married any other time, she would get married in the summer no matter what. And at some point she said that she absolutely would not wait until summer 2008 to get married.


Let me remind everyone -- she was not engaged yet, not even near being engaged. She was talking about her wedding plans for whichever guy she ended up marrying -- not about established plans that she and fiance''s brother had made or anything like that.


So there were no established plans made by her + fiance''s brother, there was no date ''chosen,'' nothing like that. There was just her throwing a fit because she wasn''t engaged yet, her declaring to me that she was getting married in summer no matter what, and I just thought she''d calm down and act normally once she got engaged herself. I never dreamed that we''d be in this situation.

Look, Elle- you are upset mostly because you don''t like this woman! Reading your post I am getting upset at her for her ridiculous must-get-marriedness, sulking at your engagement, bullying someone around whom you seem to care for (your FBIL). She is an insecure child! However, as to the ettiquette of the situation regarding the timing of THEIR wedding - you don''t have a leg to stand on! Especially if they are taking the very gracious move of stepping theirs up a few months. Rejoice on that front! Yes, it is still two destination weddings in the same year, but whatever. Four months apart is not a gross insult.

What really seems to be tricking you up is this woman''s personality and faults, the fact that she will soon be family, and that your friend, your fiance''s brother, is marrying her! That you cannot fix. That is not an affront to you personally - it is her basic personality. She may be selfish, insensitive, and her (jealous) reaction to your engagement was quite rude to you, but it was not personal. Any young woman announcing her engagement would have recieved the same treatment.

Your best bet is to thank your FBIL graciously for considering moving up his wedding, and get to enjoy the planning of yours! You WILL have to accomodate this woman as family moving forward, so try to limit your exposure to her until you gain some kind of perspective, but then realize that her faults spring from deep insecurity! And her FI, your FBIL, will be married to her. So you either need to accept her or realize that to avoid her you will have to cut off your FBIL to some extent. For better or worse, this is the woman he has chosen....

 

[ellewoods]

Thank you Lindsey, those are exactly my concerns and that is exactly how I feel.

There are many ways we can respond to this, and my fiance and I have discussed several of them. Move our wedding to spring/early summer, they have August. Realize this sucks but keep our wedding in October, and they have June or August. Elope. Move our wedding back another year to 2008. We haven''t decided what we are going to do.

But regardless of the logical options, yes, this is our engagement period, and our wedding, and I want it to feel special. This isn''t about having the wedding spotlight on us, exclusively, for all of 2007. I wouldn''t mind if one or many of my friends were getting married next year close to my wedding , or right after my wedding. Heck, my friends could have the day before and the day after and it would be fine. But it is about wanting to have 2 seperate, distinct, enjoyable weddings -- and not wanting the 2 to be jumbled and confused and compared to each other.

This isn''t like 2 friends getting married around the same time -- this is 2 brothers, 2 destination weddings, with a large amount of family and family friends who will be guests at both. Not to mention friends. We set a date for a destination wedding months and months ago. They have just announced a destination wedding for a few months before ours.

Ultimately, there will be 2 marriages created, yes. But now our wedding will be compared to their very recent wedding, our planning and our wedding will end up being an afterthought in many ways to some friends and family, the excitement behind our wedding will be majorly decreased because of their recent wedding soon before ours,people''s energy will have been spent on their wedding...it is definitely an unwanted hiccup. And I can''t help but think that fiance''s brother + his fiance are planning to go first for several of those reasons.

As far as it being childish and immature in caring about who gets married first -- how is this any less childish and immature than caring about getting married before you turn 30?

I do like your suggestions as far as the planning trip, Ephemery. I have considered not going, I have considered going but not doing any wedding planning at all. I have considered going, and doing wedding planning, but keeping her entirely excluded -- which I think will be what we do. My future-mother-in-law just told me today that fiance''s brother + fiance do not have to come to any of the planning parts at all when the rest of us do. Even she realizes how horrible that would be for me.

 

[ellewoods]

Edited to remove a duplicate posting.

 

[diamondfan]

Elle, however this works out I feel for you. Just try to find a way to cope with her personality cuz I think this is the way things are going to be with her around. That said, I also get mad when someone hurts me and it seems like I have to be the one who compromises or gives in in order to keep peace. It may be the only option sometimes, when one is dealing with a demanding person, but it still stinks and I know where you are coming from...not commenting on eventual outcomes etc, just wanted you to know that!

 

[ellewoods]

There is one more detail I don''t know if I pointed out.

One of the reasons this is so important to me is that I basically have no family. I will have 2 family members at my wedding (dad, sister), and there is no one else.

Over the last several years dating my fiance, I have gotten extremely close with his family and their extended family and friends. They are all I have in terms of any kind of family. Example -- my sister and fiance''s mom & fiance''s sister are the ones who went wedding dress shopping with me. So it''s not like I have any kind of family of my own supporting me, sharing this experience with me, going to attend the wedding -- none of that. Does it mean I''m entitled to go first, to have this experience first with fiance''s family? No, I''m not entitled to anything. Does it make more sense in this situation, and would it mean a million times more to me than anyone else? Yes.

 

[ellewoods]

To try and move away from my emotional postings....

Let''s get to the most important part, which Deco mentioned -- who has the prettiest ring?

I do I do I do I do! Yes that''s shallow, and petty, and judgemental....but I do.

We actually haven''t seen her ring (they live several hours away from us). But fiance''s sister told us that it was a tiffany-style setting with a round solitaire. Don''t know the characteristics, but it can''t be anything like mine. Mine is amazing, and I love it, and its the prettiest ring ever.

There''s pictures around somewhere...but its a custom designed (by my fiance), 2+ carat emerald cut center stone in a platinum micro pave setting with hearts and arrows tiny diamonds in the micro pave, with a beautiful basket-type mounting also set in micro pave.

That makes me feel a little better.

 

[jas]

I just want to second what Lindsay said here. I''ve actually been chewing on this all day...as another person who everyone can count on to generally do the right thing, etc. Yes, people do pray on that. Yes, one of the wonderful things about the whole engagement process is that people-pleasers (usually women) have this one time where they can unapologetically put themselves first. I''m not saying that people pleasers have a right to be bridezillas at this time (nor am I saying that of you) but it''s the one time in p.p
s lives where it''s "acceptable" if not enforced.

Yes, people pleasers should learn from this time...maybe it''s a learning curve about taking care of yourself, about only being able to meet others'' needs when we meet our own, that kind of thing.

But it has taken me awhile to grow a little more self-love from all this...and inconsiderations at this time just seem really reall s****y.

Hang in there. It''s ok to vent, it really is. It seems to me that you''re all twisted up and caught between trying to do what''s right for you (the bridal right) and trying to do what''s right for everyone else first (the people pleaser) --

You will find a happy medium...part of finding the right thing to do all around is allow yourself to feel angry, to vent, etc. You are doing it in a non-destructive place...you will do no damage to people you love and future relatives by spewing here. I congratulate you for that. Once that''s all out, once you''ve purged, , the calm will come, as will the right solution for you that will be consistent with the decent caring person you seem to be.

Trust me, I am going through that myself.

We''re here for you!

Jackie

 

[ellewoods]

Jackie,

Amen amen amen! Honestly, PriceScope is sooo much better than therapy, and much cheaper too! I have gotten through so many thoughts and emotions today by reading everyone''s replies and replying further -- a million times farther than I would just thinking about this situation over and over again, or talking things out with my fiance.

But I''m saying Amen to you because I definitely am a people-pleaser, and while I have not even acted like a bride up until now, planning your wedding and getting married seems to be the ONE time where you can unapologetically put yourself first. It''s even expected. "What are you colors" "Ooh let me see the ring!" "How did he propose?" "What does your dress look like? The bridesmaid dresses?" "What kind of food/alcohol/entertainment/music/decorations do you want?"

And no, it doesn''t give anyone the right to be a Bridezilla. But it''s expected that you focus on yourself, your desires, your needs, your wants, and to have someone butt into that who most definitely takes away about 95% of that, well it feels like you''re cheated and shortchanged. And the fact that the person KNOWS their actions have that result, but they don''t care -- well that makes things even worse.

And you are right -- I am torn between doing the "right" thing (which is really my people pleaser tendencies) -- which is somehow sucking it up and going on with my plans while she jumps in first -- and doing what I want, without regards to what negative effects it has on others (for one of the first times ever) -- and having everything about my wedding the way I want, no one else considered, on the very same day as theirs if I want, and being angry and upset at brother''s fiance and acting that way towards her too.

I''ll let you know when the calm comes -- it doesn''t seem to be anytime soon.

 

[diamondfan]

Date: 9/28/2006 8:13:35 PM
Author: ellewoods
To try and move away from my emotional postings....


Let''s get to the most important part, which Deco mentioned -- who has the prettiest ring?

I do I do I do I do! Yes that''s shallow, and petty, and judgemental....but I do.

We actually haven''t seen her ring (they live several hours away from us). But fiance''s sister told us that it was a tiffany-style setting with a round solitaire. Don''t know the characteristics, but it can''t be anything like mine. Mine is amazing, and I love it, and its the prettiest ring ever.


There''s pictures around somewhere...but its a custom designed (by my fiance), 2+ carat emerald cut center stone in a platinum micro pave setting with hearts and arrows tiny diamonds in the micro pave, with a beautiful basket-type mounting also set in micro pave.


That makes me feel a little better.

NOW YOU''RE TALKING (tee hee)... PICTURES PLEASE?

 

[ellewoods]

It''s not my favorite picture, because it makes the band look much thicker than it really is -- in person the band and basket are much much thinner and more delicate. I''ve got to get a good hand pic...

 

[decodelighted]

Ummmmmm.

NOW we''re *talkin*! Always good to see that gorgeous ring, Ellewoods!!

FWIW - vent away! It''s clearer why it''s affecting you so deeply now that you''ve explained your family situation & closeness to HIS family.

P.S. -- there are some advantages to going second. People will actually remember YOURS much, much more. You have the opportunity to see what she does & subtly "top" her

... PLUS, as someone else said, she''ll be deep in that post-Bride blues while watching YOU be Belle of the Ball. Revisiting the parts of her day that *didn''t* go right etc etc etc. Not that I wish that on ANYONE. But, sounds like that''s her way ... (This "Selfish" thing is addictive, no?)

 

[rainwood]

Elle -

I''m assuming from your screen name that you''re a lawyer or at least a law student. I''m a lawyer too (for many years) and I''m going to approach this the way I would for any client. Which is strategically. And like any good lawyer, I''m going to tell you my assumptions first.

1. You don''t like your FSIL. You said you used to, but all your descriptions of her make it clear that you really don''t. That''s okay. In fact, it may make things easier if you admit that to yourself.
2. Your FSIL is a selfish, self-centered, jealous, insecure, or otherwise not so nice person. I don''t know if she actually is, but I''m going to assume that everything you said about her is true.
3. You are the wonderful, sweet, caring person you say you are (minus the argumentative side that comes with the law student/young lawyer territory).
4. You are really, really close to your fiance''s family and having them involved in all your special times (not just the wedding) is important to you.
5. You''d really like to be the center of attention for all your wedding-related stuff, not just the wedding, but the showers, etc. That''s okay to admit to. We all want that. It means people care about us and the important things in our lives.

That said, here''s what I think you should NOT do.

1. Don''t ever put your FMIL in the middle or do anything that makes her look like she''s choosing between her 2 FDIL''s. She''s staying out of this because she wants all of her children to be happy. That''s what any mother wants. This is truly a no-win situation for her. She will love and respect you for anything you do that makes the situation better and believe me this will be much better for you in the long run if, in her heart of hearts, she considers you her favorite DIL. This should be especially important to you because you are so close to his family already.
2. Don''t make the situation between your fiance and his brother worse. They''re brothers. He''s known him longer than he''s known you. Even if they''re not close, it still counts for something. And if the FSIL is the true witch you make her out to be, he''s going to be punished enough.
3. Don''t assume that FSIL will ever do the right, charitable, decent thing. She''s not you, she''s never going to be you. She''s going to be her and if she''s a self-centered piece of work, you will always have your expectations dashed. Not just on the wedding issue, but everything else. She is who she is and at age 29, she ain''t changing. So plan for the worst and don''t set yourself up to be disappointed because she acts like herself instead of you.
4. Don''t change the wedding you want to have so it can be first. Everyone on this board is right. Make it the wedding you want when you want it, and don''t sweat the details. The wedding is a day, the marriage and your relationship with your in-laws (all of them) is forever if you''re lucky. The best way to ruin your special day is to obsess about stuff you can''t change. Yes, some people might not come to Mexico, yes your FSIL might try to steal the show, yes, your wedding won''t be first. The only way it won''t be special is if YOU make it not special. The only thing I regret about my wedding is the tantrum I threw about the flowers not being the right color. How stupid! It was a beautiful day, I was marrying a great guy, and I threw a fit because some of the flowers were purple instead of blue. I''m still ashamed at myself and that was 28 years ago! Don''t make that mistake.
5. Don''t exclude the brother or FSIL from any family events, whether it''s the wedding or holidays. It might make you feel better for a second, but it will make you feel worse all the rest of the time. You''ll look like the petty one, and that just isn''t smart or personally rewarding because then people have to take sides. Everyone loses when families take sides.
6. Don''t give the FSIL the details of your wedding. If she''s the person you think she is, she might well copy or try to top what you''re doing. Be vague or, if forced, give out wrong information. Just because someone asks a question doesn''t mean they''re entitled to an answer. But again, the key is to be nice about it.

And now here''s what you should do:
1. Send out the save the dates so people know and those who can only go to one wedding have the ability to choose yours if they want.
2. Have your showers and other social events be separate. Invite the FSIL if it''s appropriate given who is hosting and who is coming, but say no to joint showers or other similar events. It''s okay. People will understand if you''re nice about it. And if FSIL is there and tries to make the event about her, eveyone will think less of her, particularly if you''re gracious about it. And consider it practice for future family events. If she''s a drama queen, "all about her" kind of person, she''s going to be doing it a lot. Over time, you''ll figure out the best coping strategy for you. Just don''t get caught up in the drama because then you''re playing on her turf. It''s hard, but worth it. And think of it as the price you pay for having a great husband and an extended family you''re close to.
3. The Thanksgiving planning trip is a harder question. If having the FSIL there at all will truly and completely ruin the trip, then don''t go. If you''re going to be miserable and unhappy, no one will benefit from the experience and you and your fiance should do it without the rest of his family along. If, however, there is a way that you can carve out the planning aspects so that you, fiance, and FMIL can do some scouting, go for it. I''m sure she''d love to be involved given how close you are and there''s no way that the other wedding is going to have your Mexican ambience. They can''t steal that.
4. Have a wedding that is meaningful to you and your fiance. That''s the best revenge because they can''t steal that either.

Good luck. You''re smart. You''ll make the right decisions.

 

[gailrmv]

I have not read the whole thread so apologies if this has been suggested. But is there any way the brother could move his wedding forward - maybe to June? This would give lots more space between your two weddings.

 

[ellewoods]

Hello Gail, and everyone.

Fiance's brother has said that they will consider looking at June instead of August, to put a little more space between the 2 weddings. While I think that would make things a little better, it also doesn't help the damage that has already been done in terms of my fiance and I feeling really hurt that brother's fiance doesn't care that we feel slighted and shortchanged by their choice.

But yes, I do think it is a better choice than August, if there was a choice.

Its funny, last night we went to dinner with a friend of ours and his new girlfriend. She is the middle of 3 daughters. I didn't talk about the situation at all at dinner because I didn't want to talk about all of the drama. But in the bathroom with the new girlfriend, she got a call from her sister who had just gotten engaged that night, so afterwards my topic came up. I cut out most details and just explained we got engaged, said October, and now younger brother is engaged and is saying August/possibly June. I asked her what she thought and said I welcomed a honest opinion, even if she thought I was being stupid or overreacting.

She immediately asked "is your fiance the oldest?" And I said, "yes." To which she replied, "then that's BULLSH*T!"

It made me laugh, and I really needed that yesterday!

 

[ellewoods]

Rainwood,

Thank you so much for your list. You are correct, I''m a young attorney. But no chihuahua (one of the only things fiance will not let me have).

And thank you very much for giving me advice based on taking the things I have said as true. I''m sure my posts are biased towards my own side, and people may take her side if they heard it directly from her, but I came to PS to vent and get support - but I didn''t come to try and prove I''m "right," so it really helps when people don''t pick apart the details I''ve given.

As far as Mexico, I am not sure what I''m going to do. We''ve already bought plane tickets, paid for some of the accomodations -- so I may just have to go and ignore her if I don''t want to talk to her, and focus on my fiance and I. My future-mother-in-law said that brother + fiance do not have to come with us on any wedding-related trips and planning, which I appreciate, I just wish they wouldn''t come at all.

If I were her I''d feel completely awkward on the trip, getting death stares from me and my fiance or even worse, totally ignored. Oh well, that''s her problem to deal with. I can accept their wedding at some point and I won''t be a monster but that doesn''t mean I''m going to go out of my way to be nice.

 

[ellewoods]

New question for everyone who has been reading this thread --

Do you think its fair to ask them to wait to send their "save the dates" until we send ours? We can''t send ours until early December, because we haven''t officially chosen a hotel/location in Mexico yet (we''re doing that in November). As soon as we get back from the trip we will send the save the dates.

I think its entirely fair to ask them to wait, given the circumstances. I''d like to insist that we get to send wedding invitations out first too -- but that may not work if they get a June date. But if they send save the dates out soon after us....then we could insist that we get the wedding invitations out first I think.

 

[Mara]

elle...so i was telling a friend about this whole thing last nite and her take on it was interesting. as a total impartial third party. she said..well of course the other girl is not thinking about elle and her wedding 2-3 months out! it's HER wedding and she's thinking of herself and her fiance. why should they think of anyone else when setting the day THEY want to get married?

i thought that was interesting and quite frankly, true. when one is planning their own wedding, i don't know how much thought they give to 3rd parties. we really didn't...we did what WE wanted because it was OUR wedding. we were paying for it, we wanted people to come if they could, but it didn't make or break our day. we did things the way WE wanted to. i don't think it makes one entirely horrible or selfish to think about doing what they want for their wedding. it is THEIR day.

anyway i think it's easy to put your feelings onto others or say what you would do in that situation, but the truth is that most of us are not IN that situation. i wanted to be married before 30. would i have freaked out if our wedding couldn't be til i was 30.5? no way. but it just worked out that we got married in may and i turned 30 in october. i didn't PLAN it that way, but mentally i don't know, it was just better for me? i don't even know why. and maybe it's silly but that is what she wants. just like you guys want what YOU want.

i think there are always totally two sides to things. i think the longer you stew about this and tell people about it to get commisseration or feel others out or get 'validation' for your feelings, the more ill will you will harbor towards your future SIL. even if you don't mean that...it seems like internally it could happen. and that's not good. this girl is going to be part of the family just like you are. honestly, i think you REALLY need to get past this and just plan your own thing and stop thinking about why you guys are 'in the right' to be mad. once the weddings and all this drama is over you will have to all co-exist peacefully in the same family together and get along and LOVE EACH OTHER. so definitely try to see the forest through the trees. there's more to it than just the wedding and one perception of reality.

 

[sumbride]

I don't think it's fair to ask them to wait on the save the dates or the invitations because in a way, you're saying "our wedding is more important than yours". If theirs is in fact first, then it makes sense that theirs would go out first. Now, if you were to go ahead and send them first, that's ok, just don't ask them to wait for you.

 

[ellewoods]

Mara,

I agree with you and your friend, obviously she isn''t thinking about my wedding or anything except for her wedding. It''s just a difficult, sticky situation in that the weddings of 2 brothers may potentially be on top of each other in a way that will negatively effect the second wedding -- whomever''s it is.

Stewing about it for the rest of my life isn''t going to help, agreed. But I am not quite ready to suck it up and put a smile on yet. I haven''t been telling the world about the situation, sobbing in my office, or talking badly about brother''s fiance to anyone who will listen, really, I haven''t. I''ve been pretty much only talking with people via Price Scope, and I think its a healthy forum to do that.

In the end, somewhere down the line, I was have to accept this and move on. And I am trying, but it is difficult. Even for people who disagree with me that I would like them to wait until after our wedding -- if you were me in this situation, and your fiance''s brother decided to get married 1-4 months BEFORE the wedding you''d already started to plan -- wouldn''t you be a bit peeved? Regardless if its rational or logical or "justified " -- I think most people would be peeved. Especially the shorter time there is between the 2 .

And yes, we''ll be family, and married to the men we love, etc. But this situation has most definitely changed my feelings towards this woman and I don''t feel going forward in life with her around that she will have anyone''s interests at heart except for hers. This situation also confirms my skepticism about her and her motives. I think my future-brother-in-law is in for a rocky road with this woman, and I feel sorry for him.

 

[Mara]

elle i totally agree that if this was happening to me i would be kind of like wow that sucks....but that hopefully i would be able to get past it, and it would all be okay in the end. i really do think that often times drama that happens around weddings happens because of PEOPLE and how they can perpetuate it. like for example how you were saying earlier that your fiance got off the phone about something re: their wedding vs yours (i can''t remember specific example) and he was all mad about it. you can help the situation by letting him know it''s not a huge deal to you. help diffuse the situation. otherwise you both will just feed off each other''s angst about it and without even realizing it, it may come across to others, in the family, friends, whatever. just think about that. perpetuating drama. i think that you have a right to be a bit peeved but that you can know that and still be the bigger person and get past it. take the high road. it is sad that it colors your view of her now and that all of this is even happening, and maybe she is a bit selfish but maybe that will change over time...you never really know what will happen in families with people. she could mellow over time, or have kids and realize it''s about more than just her etc. in any case she will be your sister...so hopefully you guys can work it out.

 

[ellewoods]

Regarding the save the dates --

I just feel like every single thing is going to be compared between these 2 weddings, and once friends and family hear about both, and hear that brother''s wedding is first, WE will look like the copy-cats, when we aren''t the copy-cats. It will be like "Oh look, younger brother sent us a wedding invitation for a destination wedding in June. How nice." And then they get ours second, "Oh now look, older brother sent us a wedding invitation for a destination wedding in October. Well, I guess he decided to take the plunge too because his brother did. He''s following in his younger brother''s footsteps. And it''s a destination wedding too. How cute, its a trend."

I think the least they could allow us is for us to send our save the dates first, even if first by a couple of days, because I certainly don''t want anyone to have the impression that our wedding is the copy-cat wedding.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/29/2006 3:10:00 PM
Author: ellewoods
New question for everyone who has been reading this thread --

Do you think its fair to ask them to wait to send their ''save the dates'' until we send ours? We can''t send ours until early December, because we haven''t officially chosen a hotel/location in Mexico yet (we''re doing that in November). As soon as we get back from the trip we will send the save the dates.

I think its entirely fair to ask them to wait, given the circumstances. I''d like to insist that we get to send wedding invitations out first too -- but that may not work if they get a June date. But if they send save the dates out soon after us....then we could insist that we get the wedding invitations out first I think.

I have to be honest and say no, I don''t think it''s fair to ask them to do anything on your schedule. Nor they should ask you to do anything on their schedule.

If you want these events treated as separate events, which you''ve said that you do, then treat them separately yourselves. Plan your stuff and send your stuff on your timelines, and don''t get involved in theirs.

Honestly, Elle, you can''t insist anything. (Actually, more accurately, you can insist all you want, but they don''t have to accommodate your insistence.) I fear that if you keep insisting and snubbing, you''re going to come out looking worse. If his family is really that important to you (and you''ve said they are), don''t make this worse. Don''t add to the family fracture.

Ok, that said....

Regarding your save the dates, I think you absolutely can send them now. People don''t need to know right now what the exact location is. All they really need to know is "hey, we''re getting married on Oct. XX, 2007 in Mexico. We haven''t picked the final location, but we want to give you enough time to make plans to join us. More info to follow."

You can always send a follow-up note with details once you''ve nailed them down.

On the invitations, invites usually go out 2 months before the wedding. So, if they pick June, invites go out in April. If they pick August, invites go out in June. Either one is really too early for yours to go out, so I don''t see how yours could go out first.

Honestly, I don''t really think they need to go out first. If you''ve sent STDs, people will already know anyway - the invites are just a formality.

 

[Mara]

Ditto what Al said. I don''t think you should ask them to do anything or not do anything.

I''d get on it and send out your save the dates with the date and that''s it. That is pretty much what ours had on them. And we said Kauai, Hawaii. That was it. So people knew it was destination. We also said further details forthcoming as well as travel arrangements. So they knew that we were on it.

Send out the STD''s ASAP if possible. Then at least people are holding the date for you. Then you don''t even have to say a thing to the other couple.

 

[Maria D]

style="WIDTH: 99%; HEIGHT: 92px">Date: 9/29/2006 3:10:00 PM
Author: ellewoods
New question for everyone who has been reading this thread --

Do you think its fair to ask them to wait to send their 'save the dates' until we send ours?

Of course it's fair to ask; you can ask anything you want! But I don't think it's something that's fair to demand. It's really not your business when they send out their save the dates or invitations. If they want to accomodate you, that's great, but they don't have to.

I think its entirely fair to ask them to wait, given the circumstances. I'd like to insist that we get to send wedding invitations out first too -- but that may not work if they get a June date. But if they send save the dates out soon after us....then we could insist that we get the wedding invitations out first I think.

What are the circumstances? That you got engaged first and your fiance is older? So what. These things do not determine when "save the dates" and invitations get sent out; the date of the wedding determines this. They are getting married in June or August. They need to get their stuff out in a timely manner. If I were a guest invited to both weddings I would think it was kind of ridiculous to get the invitation for the October wedding well ahead of the one in August and absolutely insane to get it in advance of a wedding in June!

You've also moved from "is it fair to ask" to "we could insist." Think about how you would feel if *they* insisted on things you could/ could not do for your wedding. You'd dig your heels in and so will they. Be careful.

 

[decodelighted]

Have you sent engagement announcemets? Maybe THAT''s the way to "show" you were engaged first? And on it could say, wedding in October or whatever.

I wouldn''t ask anything of them. You''re only going to be dissapointed & more furious. And I agree that it seems like you''re saying your wedding is more important than theirs.

It''s not a race. It''s not a competition. People who love you & are able will come REGARDLESS of what other weddings they go to.

This is bringing out a competitive side you might not have realized you had .. underneath all the niceness!