Depressed -- fiance''s brother just engaged and announced plans to marry a couple months before us

[ellewoods]

Hello again.

Mara, I agree with you -- I don''t understand why there is so much drama associated with weddings either. At least, I didn''t understand it until 2 days ago when my own wedding plans came into this current drama.

Some more clarifications -- the "home state" where I live now is California, where my fiance and I both grew up, as well as where we went to college, as well as where the majority of friends and family are.

As for the mutual guests, yes, they will be family and family friends of both brothers. It is a large portion of the guests. I have an extremely small family and will have about 3 family guests in attendance (including my dad and sister). After his family and family friends, my 3, then there are mutual college friends and other friends of mine and my fiance''s.

In terms of guests attending our wedding in Mexico, we intentionally chose a location that is one of the easiest to get to from California (and the rest of the country), as well as probably the cheapest for air fare, so that guests would not have to bear a significant financial burden to attend. Airfare to the Mexico destination from California (and some other close states) is about the same price as a plane ticket within 2 locations in the United States -- and sometimes not even as expensive as a coast-to-coast ticket. The accomodations we are choosing are very reasonable and affordable, but more luxurious ones are available if guests want. All in all, attending our wedding will cost guests less than attending a wedding somewhere like Santa Barbara or Lake Tahoe (if you consider that the guests would fly to either).

Because I have a extremely small family, really no one outside of my sister and dad, I have become extremely close with my fiance''s family and their family friends. After almost 8 years together, they have really became my family too. So it means a lot to me that I will have them at our wedding. Some may be kind enough to attend both, but some will have to choose between the 2 I think -- and if they choose younger brother''s wedding well, there''s nothing I can do about it and that''s how things go.

Anyway, thanks again ladies, for all of your honesty and advice. MrzNeicia -- I am soooo sorry about what happened to you with your sister-in-law. I had a horrible flash of insight yesterday about what if must-marry-before-30 chooses my dress!

What a horrible, horrible twist of fate. My fiance said that if she really did that though, we wouldn''t go to their wedding. I hope it doesn''t come down to that.

I am trying to get used to the idea but it is really difficult. I don''t want to harbor negative energy and hostile feelings towards this (stupid!) person for the rest of my life. But right now I just feel so confused, and disapointed, and deflated. My fiance''s mom emailed me earlier about potential bridal showers in the spring that her friends want to give me, and I don''t even want to think about those details or talk about them. If someone suggests a "joint shower" I will throw up and then kill myself .

Cara--don''t worry, I''m not placing all of my displeasure on must-marry-before-30. I am bothered at my future-brother-in-law that he got bullied and pressured into proposing, and now he''s getting bullied and pressured into getting married exactly when must-marry wants, no exceptions. I mean he must have known the ins and outs of her timeline and wants and all of that, he should have proposed way earlier and set an August date before there were even 2 weddings to ponder.

But at the same time, I can''t help but notice that it''s my future brother-in-law who is making an effort to talk to me and my fiance about all of this, while his fiance must-marry isn''t communicating at all. Not even something like "look I''m sorry you''re upset but we really want to marry in August and I''m sure we''ll both have nice weddings." No, she''s not saying anything. If she doesn''t care about us, that''s fine. But it would be better if she just pretended to care even a tiny bit about the scheduling conflicts. Instead of making it so obvious she doesn''t care about anyone but herself.

 

[codex57]

Wow. You have my sympathies, but it''s possible things will turn out ok. If the destination wedding isn''t too expensive, people may still choose to go. 2 months is still quite a decent time apart and if hers isn''t a destination and is fairly local, mutual friends likely will go to both.

My suggestion for mitigating things is to publicly announce your plans first. Showers, etc. You announce them before her, you can preemptively strike. After all, you got engaged first. Guests won''t bat an eye that it''s an advance strike because they''ll just assume since you got engaged first, you also planned everything first. There''s not all that much stuff where people will show up to before the wedding. You announce those few things first, the guests who really care about you will show up to yours cuz you announced it first and they''ll be happy to accept the invitations.

To make you feel better about the 2 months, lemme tell you about the timelines for my family and friends:

I was married about 1 month after my best man. Obviously, we have a good number of mutual friends. They showed up to both.

I was married 2 weeks before my cousin. We were each other''s groomsman. Family showed up to both.

This is a wedding. A very important event. Unless they''re just casual friends or family, they make an extra effort to show up. Sure there''s a financial hurt that''s less spread out, but 2 months gives some breathing room. And, if they know you got engaged first and set the date first, they''re not going to hold it against you. As you can see by all the responses, it''s pretty clear that if anyone is at "fault" here, it''s your future sister-in-law.

 

[ellewoods]

Thanks for the thoughts travelinggal.

I do agree with you, and others that have pointed this out, that in the end, a wedding is about the 2 people getting married. And (hopefully!) each wedding is distinct and special in its own way, even if they occur close together, even if many of the same guests attend.

I just feel like this situation is such a negative and bad start to the rest of our lives -- and I mean the rest of the lives of the 4 of us involved. In the near future we will all be family, and be intertwined in each other''s lives, for the good and the bad. And this situation makes me feel like well, now I know her (their?) true colors. And the colors are not considerate, and not kind, and it makes me sad.

One other detail -- several months ago, my future mother-in-law had the wonderful idea of the family going to Mexico for Thanksgiving(her house is being remodeled), and while we''re there we can look at wedding sites for us. My sister is going too. My fiance and I were planning on doing a scouting trip sometime but when my future mother-in-law suggested this, I was really touched and thought it was a great idea. Of course younger brother + must-marry are coming, and my future sister-in-law + her boyfriend. I have really been looking forward to visiting sites and having input from my future-in-laws.

But now, honestly, I don''t want future-brother-in-law and must-marry there at ALL. I don''t want her to know anything about my wedding, see anything about my wedding, be involved in anything about my wedding. The trip was going to be a special family time, and now I feel like this issue will cloud over everything and her being anywhere near my wedding details is going to drive me insane.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 9/27/2006 6:11:30 PM
Author: ellewoods
Thanks for the thoughts travelinggal.

I do agree with you, and others that have pointed this out, that in the end, a wedding is about the 2 people getting married. And (hopefully!) each wedding is distinct and special in its own way, even if they occur close together, even if many of the same guests attend.

I just feel like this situation is such a negative and bad start to the rest of our lives -- and I mean the rest of the lives of the 4 of us involved. In the near future we will all be family, and be intertwined in each other''s lives, for the good and the bad. And this situation makes me feel like well, now I know her (their?) true colors. And the colors are not considerate, and not kind, and it makes me sad.

One other detail -- several months ago, my future mother-in-law had the wonderful idea of the family going to Mexico for Thanksgiving(her house is being remodeled), and while we''re there we can look at wedding sites for us. My sister is going too. My fiance and I were planning on doing a scouting trip sometime but when my future mother-in-law suggested this, I was really touched and thought it was a great idea. Of course younger brother + must-marry are coming, and my future sister-in-law + her boyfriend. I have really been looking forward to visiting sites and having input from my future-in-laws.

But now, honestly, I don''t want future-brother-in-law and must-marry there at ALL. I don''t want her to know anything about my wedding, see anything about my wedding, be involved in anything about my wedding. The trip was going to be a special family time, and now I feel like this issue will cloud over everything and her being anywhere near my wedding details is going to drive me insane.

It''s a tough spot to be in for sure...and a BIG lump to swallow. You can know all these things in your head that we are telling you, but it still doesn''t stop the heart from hurting.

I hope for your sake that your FSIL will come around and at least make an effort to acknowledge that she thinks your wedding is important too.

 

[JCJD]

Date: 9/27/2006 6:11:30 PM
Author: ellewoods
I just feel like this situation is such a negative and bad start to the rest of our lives -- and I mean the rest of the lives of the 4 of us involved.

I have really been looking forward to visiting sites and having input from my future-in-laws.


But now, honestly, I don''t want future-brother-in-law and must-marry there at ALL. I don''t want her to know anything about my wedding, see anything about my wedding, be involved in anything about my wedding. The trip was going to be a special family time, and now I feel like this issue will cloud over everything and her being anywhere near my wedding details is going to drive me insane.

elle, I''m sorry but I''m going to be harsh now. Apologies in advance.

Re-read what you wrote here and ask yourself this question: WHO is acting manipulative and selfish and trying to "win" here? You are going to let this girl''s desire to be married before 30 cloud over your entire wedding, marriage, and family life?! How will excluding her and your FBIL from your wedding planning make anything better for anyone? It will only cultivate MORE hard feelings and rather than being the bigger person, you will be stooping to her level. Think about it. I completely understand your feelings in this situation, they are absolutely legitimate, and you shouldn''t feel bad for feeling this way. But step back, have a latte, and think about the consequences if you do go this route of excluding your FSIL and FBIL in your wedding plans. You shouldn''t contribute to the animosity between the two brothers too.

 

[seejanego]

Ellewoods, I know I sound like a broken record. But, again, I feel you. My Mom''s twin -- puppetmaster of her son (my cousin) and must marryII -- loves to probe my mother about MY wedding developments. But, here''s the thing -- I don''t think she wants to use the info to copy as they don''t nearly have the budget that we do (but I still wouldn''t put it past her to attempt to copy), but she just loves wedding stuff. But, the fact that she has helped orchestrate this mess gives me the right to deny her the pleasure of hearing about my lovely plans.

Yet and still, my Mom and I have a no-tell policy -- and that goes for anything. I know it is not a show. But, the way I see it, they virtually got the idea to marry when they did from me, so I ain''t giving them anything else. Both of our situations just stink. Bad. I know, I know, I should kill the "woe is me" gig, but it really hurts that people close to you would actually cause this kind of hurt intentionally -- which may not be the case for you -- BUT must marry hasn''t really tried to be civil, either. In my case, I know damn well, it was done to spite me.

Anyhoo, if I were you, I''d make the case for Thanksgiving at someone else''s home in Cali -- or a very nice restaurant, and save the tip to Mexico for those you want there. I would also institute a no-tell policy with Mother in Law to be for obvious reasons.

 

[firebirdgold]

Best advice: Go get a massage or sit in a hot tub with your sweetie. Basically do something a little self-indulgent and so totally relaxing that you aren''t even thinking of anything let alone the wedding.

 

[ephemery1]

Just for kicks (and because I spend all day counseling and my most favorite approach is "how can we look at this from a different perspective?", let's pretend this new thread just started in BIW:

Please help!

I've been in love with my dream guy for over two years, and I can't wait to spend the rest of my life with him. I've always hoped to be married by the time I'm 30, because I really want to have kids while I'm young, and I'm so lucky that he understands that and wants it too. I was hoping and praying that he would propose to me this summer, so we could plan our wedding for next summer, before I turn 30 in September... but no ring. Instead, his brother proposed to his girlfriend (who's younger than me

) and suddenly they're the ones planning a fun wedding in Mexico for 2007. It was really hard to be happy for them, cause I just felt so jealous and hurt that they were planning a wedding for next fall, knowing I'd really wanted to get married in the summer. It just seemed kinda selfish of them, ya know?

So last weekend, my boyfriend (now fiance!) proposed!! I am so happy and excited and thrilled that I'll still get to have my wedding next summer like I dreamed of. We're going to do it in August, cause that will give us enough time to plan but still leave two months before his brother's wedding... except... now my fiance's future sister-in-law is freaking out. I guess she thinks since they got engaged first, that the next year should be about them and their wedding only?! She's usually such a great girl, I can't understand why she's being like this... I thought it would be kind of fun that we're all getting married around the same time, but I guess she doesn't agree. What should I do??

Disclaimer: I am REALLY not trying to make people upset... I just genuinely believe there are 2 sides to every story and it's important to consider both. So just something else to think about...

 

[robbie3982]

Ephemery, I agree that there are two sides to everything, but I think if FSIL really thought like that and cared about Elle''s feelings she would''ve talked to her about it. She wouldn''t have had to hear it from anyone other than her.

 

[dani13]

Ephemery! You are so clever!!! You remind me of my fiance- he is in a grad psychology program-he is studying to be a therapist for children. He always sees two sides to the story. I think whenever something like this happens, one should always consider this.

I feel for you Elle, but as I said before, I think she is somewhat self centered and really wants to get married asap. Some people are just like that- I know a few!! But regardless (and I am going to give it to ya)- please stop sweating the small stuff. As big as this seems to you, it really isn't. There are many people out there that are walking around with bigger problems in this world. Your happy, your healthy, and you have a man and a family that loves you. Many people can't say the same. I am a nurse- so I really have seen a lot- it changes your way of thinking.

I am not trying to downplay your problem, but please try to keep things in perspective. It will all work out fine.

ps : let me just tell you, although it is not the same situation- I have been through much s*** with my future SIL. How do you like this one- since she became such good friends with my fiance's x-gf when they were dating (she still keeps in touch with her to this day)- the future SIL continued to invite the ex to parties and other functions after B and her broke up and he started dating me. How uncomfortable was that!! I hated her for it- I would have to put on this happy face and suck it up around all of them...my fiance even said something to her about how wrong that was, and she was like "oh well- D is just going to have to understand that she is MY FRIEND, and that is it." Even through all of the anger, I learned to try to understand her position. She is just selfish and wanted it her way, and did not even try to understand my feelings or where I was coming from. In the end, I was the better person- I didnt let her get the best of me. And you shouldn't let this girl get the best of you-bottom line.

 

[Maria D]

good one Ephemery!

I feel that if that post had shown up in BIW, the prevailing opinion would be to sympathize with must-marry-before-30. It''s human nature to take the side that you hear, I think.

Elle, in reading your posts, I get the feeling that you don''t really like this woman, period. You feel that she bullied your FBIL into things, and you say you even had talks with him about how he wasn''t ready to get married. Do you think she knows or has a feeling about this? Maybe she really *doesn''t* care about your feelings because she senses that you don''t like her. You''ve referred to her as desperate, witchy, selfish, entitled, obsessed...I''m thinking this can''t be *just* because she wants to get married in Aug ''07! (In fact, you yourself say it''s not just that -- it''s also the fact that she wants to have kids so that she won''t have to work, keep up with the Jones''s, etc...)

If you don''t like her, you don''t like her -- we all have people we don''t like that we have to put up with and no, it''s not fun. But by dwelling on all these "issues" you are eating yourself up inside -- and she''s probably all la-di-da, *I''m getting married!" If you don''t dwell on your own la-di-da, *you* will lose out!

 

[NYCsparkle]

Hey Elle....Just send out your save the date card now so people will be ready and go to your wedding. No matter what they do, your wedding will be memorable and special. Focus on your relationship with your fiancee and all else will be OK. Don''t make yourself upset over this issue, even though its hard because of her. Enjoy your planning and don''t let her ruin it.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/27/2006 2:59:55 PM
Author: ellewoods

I don''t think that in every single situation, the couple who gets engaged first is ''entitled'' or ''deserves'' to get married first. In our situation, however, I feel like all of the factors and circumstances weigh towards me and my fiance getting married first. We had already chosen a date, spread the word amongst family and friends, and made plans around that date. It''s not that the brother didn''t have notice of this, and he proposed 4 months later. I''m kind of like -- ''well,I understand that you don''t want to wait, but then you should have proposed first!''

It shouldn''t matter who marries first. It''s not a contest, and there is no "first place" prize. No one is guaranteed a better wedding or marriage by virtue of being first.

Date: 9/27/2006 2:59:55 PM
Author: ellewoods

But while he thinks that this situation is dampering what is supposed to be a happy time in his life, it is his fiance who put a damper on his brother''s and my engagement from the start, and that is exactly why we feel slighted. It''s not that we don''t want them to be happy, and to get married, but from the get go even before any of us were engaged it''s been all about her, and while my fiance and I have been looking at changing our wedding date, moving it up 4-5 months to accomodate them, trying to find ways to make it easier for all the guests and family, all the brother''s fiance is doing is insisting on August 2007. It feels like a major slap in the face.

Somehow, I think this (in yellow above) is what rankles you. And, as you know, it''s been since *before* any of you were engaged.....not just since you were engaged and they weren''t.

It''s certainly your choice whether or not to change your own date. Having said that, let''s be honest and admit that if you do so, it''s not really about "accommodating them". It''s about accommodating you.....and your desire to be first. Again, that''s fine, but better to call a spade a spade.

Honestly, I don''t see how a 4-month difference in dates (April to August) is that much of an improvement for your guests than a 2-month difference (August to October), so saying it''s for the guests is really a bit of a stretch, too.

I get the sense that if it weren''t pretty important to them to marry in August, they wouldn''t be resisting the suggestion to space things out a bit more. If it''s that important to them, they should have it. They shouldn''t have to budge. And you shouldn''t have to change a thing either.....unless you cannot handle not being "first".

 

[RoseAngel04]

Date: 9/27/2006 6:46:58 PM
Author: ephemery1
Just for kicks (and because I spend all day counseling and my most favorite approach is ''how can we look at this from a different perspective?'', let''s pretend this new thread just started in BIW:

Please help!

I''ve been in love with my dream guy for over two years, and I can''t wait to spend the rest of my life with him. I''ve always hoped to be married by the time I''m 30, because I really want to have kids while I''m young, and I''m so lucky that he understands that and wants it too. I was hoping and praying that he would propose to me this summer, so we could plan our wedding for next summer, before I turn 30 in September... but no ring. Instead, his brother proposed to his girlfriend (who''s younger than me

) and suddenly they''re the ones planning a fun wedding in Mexico for 2007. It was really hard to be happy for them, cause I just felt so jealous and hurt that they were planning a wedding for next fall, knowing I''d really wanted to get married in the summer. It just seemed kinda selfish of them, ya know?

So last weekend, my boyfriend (now fiance!) proposed!! I am so happy and excited and thrilled that I''ll still get to have my wedding next summer like I dreamed of. We''re going to do it in August, cause that will give us enough time to plan but still leave two months before his brother''s wedding... except... now my fiance''s future sister-in-law is freaking out. I guess she thinks since they got engaged first, that the next year should be about them and their wedding only?! She''s usually such a great girl, I can''t understand why she''s being like this... I thought it would be kind of fun that we''re all getting married around the same time, but I guess she doesn''t agree. What should I do??

Disclaimer: I am REALLY not trying to make people upset... I just genuinely believe there are 2 sides to every story and it''s important to consider both. So just something else to think about...

What emp typed in the purple is awesome! I''m a psyc major and can completely see both brides-to-be being upset in this situation. I would try to talk TO HER about your feelings.

 

[CourtHorn]

I'm still trying to figure out if you are worried people aren't going to come to your wedding, or if you are upset that they will be married first? I can understand if it is the first one, but I don't really think it is. It sounds like the people that are important to you WILL be there, and you will have a fabulous wedding. I don't really think you can be upset about the timing of the weddings, but i can appreciate your frustrations about her lack of communication with you and your FI.

Sounds like you have some issues with her regardless of the timing of the wedding that you all need to work out. If it were me, i would try to leave the men out of it- cause I bet that it is your issue- even if your FI is upset about it as well. I cant imagine most men being too worried about this kind of thing.

Good luck, and enjoy planning a wonderful day with your family, friends, and especially your soon-to-be husband!

ETA: i don't know if you post on the knot, but i wouldn't bring this up... They will not be as nice as the people here about this topic!

 

[ephemery1]

Date: 9/27/2006 7:11:05 PM
Author: robbie3982
Ephemery, I agree that there are two sides to everything, but I think if FSIL really thought like that and cared about Elle''s feelings she would''ve talked to her about it. She wouldn''t have had to hear it from anyone other than her.

In an ideal world, yes... but I think many posts on Pricescope are evidence that when we feel something strongly, we don''t always go straight to the person invoking those feelings... sometimes we feel more comfortable bouncing things off a more neutral sounding board first. Presumably, Elle cares about her FSIL''s feelings also (even though she is more internally focused right now because of her disappointment)... but keep in mind... she did not talk directly to her FSIL, either.... she came here. So I am just doing my best to help provide that neutral sounding board!

Especially because PS has provided that for me in the past...

 

[diamondfan]

Life is filled with shades of gray. In ideal situations, people are considerate of others and try not to hurt them. This girl might just be someone who wants what she wants and on her terms only, so it might make sense for Elle to find a way to peacefully coexist with her. (holiday dinners, etc, the future could be stressful is this girl is just a very demanding girl who expects to get her way). Thought getting engaged first does not guarantee you will be the only one in the family, I think it is common courtesy for the the other couple to sit down with Elle and have a discussion regarding timelines and make sure that feelings are not needlessly hurt. Again, no, it is not a contest and the weddings will likely be different, but that said I would feel a bit put out that in getting engaged they could not think about Elle and her fiance''s situation. It just could have been handled better. And I would not want this to be the start of a long line of similar conflicts with this girl...

 

[Christa]

I''m afraid I''m going to have to agree with Aljdewey and Ephemery . . . what difference does it make who gets married first? You get married when you want and they get married when they want. Unless she picked the same weekend on purpose to be a brat, making a "thing" out of this only makes you sound like the brat. You''re going to have to co-exist with this woman for many years, we hope, so I''d smile and congratulate her and not say another word about it.

 

[Larissa]

Date: 9/27/2006 6:46:58 PM
Author: ephemery1
Just for kicks (and because I spend all day counseling and my most favorite approach is ''how can we look at this from a different perspective?'', let''s pretend this new thread just started in BIW:


Please help!


I''ve been in love with my dream guy for over two years, and I can''t wait to spend the rest of my life with him. I''ve always hoped to be married by the time I''m 30, because I really want to have kids while I''m young, and I''m so lucky that he understands that and wants it too. I was hoping and praying that he would propose to me this summer, so we could plan our wedding for next summer, before I turn 30 in September... but no ring. Instead, his brother proposed to his girlfriend (who''s younger than me

) and suddenly they''re the ones planning a fun wedding in Mexico for 2007. It was really hard to be happy for them, cause I just felt so jealous and hurt that they were planning a wedding for next fall, knowing I''d really wanted to get married in the summer. It just seemed kinda selfish of them, ya know?


So last weekend, my boyfriend (now fiance!) proposed!! I am so happy and excited and thrilled that I''ll still get to have my wedding next summer like I dreamed of. We''re going to do it in August, cause that will give us enough time to plan but still leave two months before his brother''s wedding... except... now my fiance''s future sister-in-law is freaking out. I guess she thinks since they got engaged first, that the next year should be about them and their wedding only?! She''s usually such a great girl, I can''t understand why she''s being like this... I thought it would be kind of fun that we''re all getting married around the same time, but I guess she doesn''t agree. What should I do??



Disclaimer: I am REALLY not trying to make people upset... I just genuinely believe there are 2 sides to every story and it''s important to consider both. So just something else to think about...

This is really brillant!! I was thinking the exact thing, but wasn''t sure how to word it. I''m thrilled that you came up with this.

 

[tanyak]

Date: 9/28/2006 1:30:48 AM
Author: Christa
I''m afraid I''m going to have to agree with Aljdewey and Ephemery . . . what difference does it make who gets married first? You get married when you want and they get married when they want.

I agree. Unless I missed it, I don''t quite see what''s she''s done that''s been purposely hurtful. She wants to get married in the summer, and that her right. We also don''t know if there''s a reason WHY she picked the summer. Maybe she just loves the season. Maybe her workload is lighter in the summer, maybe it works better for her family and friends. And someone upthread mentioned she wanted to get married ASAP. She''s a 29-year-old woman with an 11-month engagement. That''s perfectly normal. Not everyone wants an 18- or 24-month engagement. And about the "before she turns 30" thing, that''s also perfectly legitimate. I''m 31 and got married last month. We originally talked about waiting until 2007 (which would have made our engagement almost three years long), but one day I was like "I don''t want to get married when I''m 32." Silly to some, but very important to me. Maybe she wants to start having kids right away - again, that''s her right, and as a woman in my early 30s who also wants kids and can''t afford to wait too much longer, I completely understand that.

 

[ellewoods]

Ephemery-
Thank you for posting the hypothetical giving the other side. While its not entirely accurate for my situation, I get the point of looking at things from her side. Believe me, I have been putting myself in their shoes the last couple of days, trying to get OK with this. In terms of me not going to the brother''s fiance to talk about this situation -- I came to PS to vent, and seek thoughts from others, and I knew that all of you would give great observations as to both sides. I don''t expect everyone to see things my way or agree with me. But I think this forum is extremely valuable in terms of getting things off of your chest and hearing different perspectives in addition to discussing things with people close to the situation in your everyday life. But I also do not understand why I should approach brother''s fiance -- she didn''t approach my fiance or I when announcing her plans, she made fiance''s brother call us and tell us her plans. I don''t see why I should approach her and extent the olive branch when she didn''t come to us in the first place.


Diamondfan is entirely correct -- life is not black and white, its varying shades of gray. Nothing is ever perfect, and in creating our lives we deal with the grays and the imperfections and if we end up happy and peaceful and content at the end of the day, despite those, well then we''ve succeeded.

My main concerns in this situation is that my fiance and I have been making great efforts to see her side of things, think of compromises, hold back our emotions and talk to his brother rationally -- but there is absolutely none of that same consideration coming from brother''s fiance. She didn''t even consider that planning her wedding for August 2007 would cause any conflict or problems with our October 2007 wedding -- and in all actuality, she doesn''t care that it would. She hasn''t made any effort to call me or my fiance, it''s been fiance''s brother who has contacted us and told us of her decision. Even if she is going to stick to her wants, and she won''t change anything, I would really greatly appreciate if she could just give us a quick call and say "I''m sorry this upsets you, but we decided to marry in August." Or heck, send me a quick email. Anything. I''m not saying I would be perfectly happy with the situation if she did that, but it would show me that at least she aknowledges our feelings.

When the brother called my fiance and announced the August plans, my fiance became really upset. And no, he''s not overly into wedding planning or anything. He felt upset that brother''s fiance chose to plan her wedding right before ours, even though we have already chosen a date and told family and friends. His brother felt awful about the situation, and told my fiance that, and said its been a terrible situation dealing with their plans and figuring out how to tell us, and hoping that we wouldn''t get upset, etc. Then fiance''s brother said well, we might look into June dates to give a little more space between the two weddings. So fiance''s brother already knew this was going to be a major issue, yet they decided on August anyway. I don''t feel like them half-heartedly offering to look into June makes things much better.

Maria -- in response to your question about if I like brother''s fiance. I like(d) her fine. Obviously this situation has made me have strong feelings of dislike towards her. I won''t bore everyone with all of the details of some of her past actions, etc. but I will give you the background that a good amount of fiance''s brother''s friends do not care for this girl for various reasons. I have tried my best to accept her and be friendly with her because I know it''s important to fiance''s brother. She has done and said many things that have raises warning signs in my mind and the minds of others -- in terms of what she wants in life and her plans for getting those things, and the fact that I''ve spoken with fiance''s brother various times about her pressuring him to get married and other things makes me feel like she isn''t the best match for him. But he proposed, and I will respect that and accept her as part of my future family. I have never been anything but nice to her, I''ve never excluded her from things, I''ve never had any disagreements or issues with her before this.

In terms of everyone who mentioned that she should be able to get married sooner so she can start having kids -- well they''re not anywhere near having kids (fiance''s brother''s recent statements). Financially, emotionally, they are not there yet. And that''s fine. But I also don''t see why waiting a little longer than August would be such a detriment to having kids -- she''ll be 30 in September. Not 45. Having kids at 30 is still on the young side of the average age for having kids.

One final note on a new development -- my fiance spoke to their mother last night. Their mom is very upset that we are all upset and in disagreement. She isn''t taking sides, she sees both of our positions, and she just wants us to find a way that everyone is happy.

The main reason fiance''s brother and his fiance say that they are planning for August is because they say they want to have a destination wedding outside at the lake, and the only months that is possible weather side (which is arguable but anyway) are June, July, and August. They said they have friends marrying in June, July, and September, so they can''t do it those months, so they are looking at August (although they never mentioned our wedding in October). Yet last night, their mom told my fiance that the brother + fiance are also considering doing their wedding INSIDE at a hotel somewhere in a big city, in June or August.

My fiance got really mad. He said look, their entire justification about why they can''t wait is that they want to be outside and the weather needs to be hot. If they are going to change and have their wedding inside, where weather is not a factor, they''ve lost the reason for getting married first and now they''re just doing it with no consideration for us.

I am sorry for this long post, I just wanted to address those things. When it comes down to it, Robbie and Diamondfan really identified the major issue -- even if there are legitimate reasons for getting married before us, and even if I should just accept this and move on, it was handled extremely poorly. Fiance''s brother and his fiance should at least have approached us, told us what they were planning, just out of courtesy. I''m not even saying they *have* to make changes based on our feelings, or anything like that. But to at least show some understanding and concern for us and our wedding, would have gone a long way in getting to an understanding in this situation.

 

[aljdewey]

But I also do not understand why I should approach brother''s fiance -- she didn''t approach my fiance or I when announcing her plans, she made fiance''s brother call us and tell us her plans. I don''t see why I should approach her and extent the olive branch when she didn''t come to us in the first place.

1. Because you''re the one having a problem with the dates/timing.
2. Because you understand that it would be a good choice to be the bigger person and more mature.
3. Because you know your MIL is stressed out over the disharmony.
4. Because *someone* has to make the first move....and it has to be one of you two.
5. Because her decision isn''t something that she''s "done wrong". You just don''t like it (understandably).
6. Because these people are going to be a part of your life for the rest of yoru life, and it''s patently ridiculous to let something like this escalate into WW3.

My main concerns in this situation is that my fiance and I have been making great efforts to see her side of things, think of compromises, hold back our emotions and talk to his brother rationally -- but there is absolutely none of that same consideration coming from brother''s fiance. She didn''t even consider that planning her wedding for August 2007 would cause any conflict or problems with our October 2007 wedding -- and in all actuality, she doesn''t care that it would. She hasn''t made any effort to call me or my fiance, it''s been fiance''s brother who has contacted us and told us of her decision. Even if she is going to stick to her wants, and she won''t change anything, I would really greatly appreciate if she could just give us a quick call and say ''I''m sorry this upsets you, but we decided to marry in August.'' Or heck, send me a quick email. Anything. I''m not saying I would be perfectly happy with the situation if she did that, but it would show me that at least she aknowledges our feelings.

Honestly....you may be right on that, but the truth is, you don''t know that for sure. You don''t know what consideration she did and didn''t give to things, because you haven''t spoken to her about it.

You may also be right that maybe she doesn''t care.....but you can''t really assume that just because she''s unwilling to change her plans. It could be that she feels your need to be "first" isnt'' as significant as her desire to marry before she turns 30. Perhaps she feels exactly how you do....that you don''t care about what''s important to her, and that you could choose any other date you wanted but she can only choose in those 3 months.

As far as your beef that it''s been her FI talking to you/brother.....well, that''s their choice on how they deal with things. This is going to sound really blunt, and I don''t mean it to be......but she shouldn''t have to come kiss your butt or get your permission to marry when she wants to. Yes, it would be nice if she did....but then again, perhaps she feels as though you won''t be reasonable, so why try?

When the brother called my fiance and announced the August plans, my fiance became really upset. And no, he''s not overly into wedding planning or anything. He felt upset that brother''s fiance chose to plan her wedding right before ours, even though we have already chosen a date and told family and friends. His brother felt awful about the situation, and told my fiance that, and said its been a terrible situation dealing with their plans and figuring out how to tell us, and hoping that we wouldn''t get upset, etc. Then fiance''s brother said well, we might look into June dates to give a little more space between the two weddings. So fiance''s brother already knew this was going to be a major issue, yet they decided on August anyway. I don''t feel like them half-heartedly offering to look into June makes things much better.

Read what you wrote, Elle.....they DID obviously consider that it might be troublesome, or else there would be no need to "figure out how to tell you". I think that says they were trying to consider your feelings. It also says that they must have felt pretty strongly about August to stick to that decision knowing it might be unpopular.

From what you say in pink, it seems as though you won''t be happy with any concession they try to make anyway unless it''s precisely what you want....which is a wedding date after your October wedding. By which point, her 30th birthday will have come and gone.

In terms of everyone who mentioned that she should be able to get married sooner so she can start having kids -- well they''re not anywhere near having kids (fiance''s brother''s recent statements). Financially, emotionally, they are not there yet. And that''s fine. But I also don''t see why waiting a little longer than August would be such a detriment to having kids -- she''ll be 30 in September. Not 45. Having kids at 30 is still on the young side of the average age for having kids.

I don''t recall you saying her reasons had anything to do with kids. That was offered by PSers as a possible motivation, but that''s not what you''ve said *she* gave as her reason. She said she wants to be married before she''s 30.......and waiting a little longer than August isn''t possible if that''s her objective and she''ll be 30 in September.

The main reason fiance''s brother and his fiance say that they are planning for August is because they say they want to have a destination wedding outside at the lake, and the only months that is possible weather side (which is arguable but anyway) are June, July, and August. They said they have friends marrying in June, July, and September, so they can''t do it those months, so they are looking at August (although they never mentioned our wedding in October). Yet last night, their mom told my fiance that the brother + fiance are also considering doing their wedding INSIDE at a hotel somewhere in a big city, in June or August.

My fiance got really mad. He said look, their entire justification about why they can''t wait is that they want to be outside and the weather needs to be hot. If they are going to change and have their wedding inside, where weather is not a factor, they''ve lost the reason for getting married first and now they''re just doing it with no consideration for us.

They said they have friends marrying in June, July, and September......so by choosing August, they are marrying only ONE month after one couple and only one month after another. This tells me they are trying to avoid two wedding in the same month. It occurs to me that they didn''t mention your wedding because 1) it''s after her birthday, so not a month they are considering anyway, and 2) she obviously doesn''t feel that it''s important to "space" weddings. You do.....and it''s less about spacing than it is about you feeling entitled to be first.

Their entire justification, from what you''ve said, isn''t just being outside and weather. It''s that she wants to be married before she''s 30!

That said, if they want the option of an outdoor wedding, it probably has to be summer. I understand that......I was marrying outside in New England, and the time frame least likely to rain here is the first 3 weeks in July, so that''s what I picked.

I am sorry for this long post, I just wanted to address those things. When it comes down to it, Robbie and Diamondfan really identified the major issue -- even if there are legitimate reasons for getting married before us, and even if I should just accept this and move on, it was handled extremely poorly. Fiance''s brother and his fiance should at least have approached us, told us what they were planning, just out of courtesy. I''m not even saying they *have* to make changes based on our feelings, or anything like that. But to at least show some understanding and concern for us and our wedding, would have gone a long way in getting to an understanding in this situation.

I can understand that handling it better may have made you less angry about this.....but it''s too late now. You are where you are, and you have to figure out where to go from here. OTOH, I can see that if they expected a hissy over it, I can see where they''d have been reluctant to approach your first, especially if they weren''t going to be bullied into making changes.

Bottom line is......what are you going to do from here? Dwelling on the coulda/shoulda/woulda isn''t going to solve anything, and it''s just going to make the situation worse. Isn''t it time to act like grown-ups?

 

[ellewoods]

A clarification & some more thoughts -- and then I''m nearly through, I promise. All of your responses, positive as well as negative, have been invaluable to me in talking out this situation and trying to sort through my feelings. Thank you all for your kind (or harsh) words, they all have been enlightening.

-Fiance''s brother + fiance have stated that their reason for wanting to get married in August is the weather -- they want a destination wedding, on the lake, outside, which they say requires August (hot weather). She has not stated that her reason for August is that she wants to get married before she is 30. But that is my fiance''s and my strong assumption, based on everything we know about her and our experiences with her. Brother is 28, she is 29. Sept. she will be 30. But she has not stated that as a reason. I am not saying that reason is right or wrong, or justified or not justified. But if that''s her motivation, I''d appreciate her stating that. Saying August is required because of weather, and then planning an August wedding inside at another location where whether is a non-issue (which we heard may happen for the first time last night)-- that would make my blood boil.

-"she shouldn''t have to come kiss your butt or get your permission to marry when she wants to. Yes, it would be nice if she did....but then again, perhaps she feels as though you won''t be reasonable, so why try?"

I agree, no one is required to ask my permission when to marry, or "should" ask my permission, or kiss my butt about it. But the considerate thing would have been for them to approach my fiance and I together and explain their plans to us, just for our knowledge, regardless of whether they cared about our feelings, and regardless of whether they would have considered doing anything differently.

As far as being reasonable, I am the most reasonable, overly accomodating person I know. Due to issues from my upbringing, I often stifile my own feelings and desires at the expense of others'', so that I don''t rock the boat, don''t make waves, don''t cause any conflicts. This does mean I am taken advantage of at times. I''m only pointing this out because anyone that knows me, would never feel apprehensive about approaching me about something like this. I am not known to be high maintenence, demanding, unflexible or anything of the sort.

-One thing I can''t resolve in my head. If the situation was reversed, they got engaged first and set a date -- then several months later we got engaged and announced we were going to marry 1-4 months before them, brother''s fiance would have flipped out. She would be upset. She would think we were selfish, and that she was being cheated out of their planning and engagement period. I am much less sensitive than she is about things like this, and look how upset I have gotten over this situation. So what I can''t resolve is that I know, brother knows, the brothers'' family knows, that she would be very upset in my situation. If you asked her, I think she''d even admit it. So why are they putting us in that position? They know that they would be upset, hurt, angry with us. Reasonable or unreasonable, they''d be upset, just like we are upset. But yet they did it anyway! This isn''t a situation where we hold different values in the way we treat others. Maybe it''s cheesy, but I just can''t stop thinking of the golden rule -- treat others as you would want them to treat you. Maybe I''m just among a minority of people who try to follow it.

-And as far as me wanting to get married in October, on the date we''ve chosen and planned around, before brother + fiance -- why isn''t this desire just as valid as her desire to get married before 30? And some people are saying "its not that big of a deal, so they get married first, just accept it, be the bigger person, don''t cause a fuss for the sake of your future interactions with her." Well if it''s not that big of a deal, then why is it a big deal for them to wait a little longer? Why can''t she be the bigger person and wait to save everyone this strife? Why doesn''t she do-the-right-thing because we will all be family for the rest of our lives and its best to keep the peace and not start WW3?

-One big problem still exists whether I shut up and accept this or not. The Mexico trip in November. Fiance and I are going with his family to find a location for the wedding. I cannot stomach the thought of having to go on a wedding scouting trip with HER there. If you think that''s selfish or stubborn well fine. But anyone who has been in my position, how would you feel if not only your wedding date was preempted but you had to go in a planning trip with her??? And even if you haven''t been in my position, would you feel comfortable with her being present at all of your planning?

Even if you think I''m wrong in wanting to get married before them, and you think she has every right to get married before me if she wants to, honestly, how would you feel having her with you on the planning trip? That''s one of the most bitter parts about this, that I just can''t swallow.

And to think, we were expecting a proposal around Thanksgiving or Christmas, and several weeks ago my fiance and I were saying that it would be really nice if his brother proposed at her family''s on Thanksgiving and then came down to Mexico engaged and we''d all celebrate.

 

[ellewoods]

Bottom line is......what are you going to do from here? Dwelling on the coulda/shoulda/woulda isn''t going to solve anything, and it''s just going to make the situation worse. Isn''t it time to act like grown-ups?

ALJ,
I don''t know what I am going to do from here. You are right, dwelling on the coulda/shoulda/woulda isn''t going to solve anything or change was has happened already. I am hoping that going forward, brother + fiance approach this situation a bit more delicately than they have, if anything, just to aknowledge that my fiance and I are upset about it.

I am trying to act like a grown-up, really, I am. I''ve vented my frustrations to my fiance and to everyone here, so that I don''t say something hurtful to fiance''s brother, or to their mom (about brother''s fiance). I''m trying to put it all out of my mind (not doing a good job on that I''m afraid), and I''m hoping time will mellow things a bit.

Fiance says that we should plan our wedding as before, and if they decide to go before us, screw ''em, we won''t let it ruin our wedding plans and our times that should be happy and special. Of course I agree, but I will still be hurt and upset if they get married before us. How to handle it? I don''t know. Suck it up and put on a happy face? I''m sure I''ll do something like that. Hate every minute? Yes.

Right now I want to skip their wedding and not invite them to ours. Of course that''s not realistic, unfortunately.

Even though I''m sure I''ll do the right thing and grin and bear it (which is very difficult, but its not the hardest part), how do I change my feelings? How do I stop feeling hurt and upset? That''s the hard part. How do I go on the planning trip and keep myself from feeling like I want to strangle her?

 

[decodelighted]

I can''t even do this point for point ... I *really* think you''ll see this less emotionally/more logically in a week or so. But I''ll say this:

Honestly, I think you could learn a lot from her. There''s something to be said for selfishness. There''s something to be said for going after what you want & looking out for the proverbial "Number One".

I suspect this is getting your goat because you''re still harboring pollyannaeque expectations for people in general. IT''S A DOG EAT DOG WORLD out there, Lady! Consideration? Ha! Golden Rule? What''s that! Gets MUCH less frustrating once you stop EXPECTING people to behave the way you WISH they would. Ya might not flip that switch today, but it will wear you down and one day, you will.

I kinda see how it''s a little hypocritical on your part to be guessing that she''d be so upset blah blah blah if you''d done that to her ... implying that you''d never do such a thing. Well ... WHY NOT? She''d just have to deal ... no one would be making you a bad guy, just like their not making her a bad guy. You''re REALLY angry at yourself ... that you have rules for yourself to "make nicey nice" that NO ONE ELSE IS ADHERING TOO. And ya might be upset that sometimes bad behavior WORKS.

C''mon ... stop the drama about who should extend the olive branch. Being the bigger person isn''t that hard if you just get on over yourself.

 

[ellewoods]

Hi Deco! Nice to hear from you!

Thanks for chiming in, I appreciate your pep-talk about reality. You are right, I do (unrealisticly) expect people to act in a somewhat considerate manner towards other people, especially in highly charged emotional situations such as this. But I should stop expecting that. It only leads to dissapointment. What an awful situation in which to learn this lesson. Grr.

Expect the worst in people kids! Then when you find something good, its that much better!

I''m not perfect or Pollyanna by any means, but I really wouldn''t do to them, what they''re doing to us. If I were in their situation I might be annoyed that they got engaged first so we had to wait until they got married, I might grumble to my fiance about having to wait longer than we wanted -- but I would never actually decide to have my wedding first, because I know it would really piss them off and upset them and start major drama.

But how do I make selfishness work in my favor here? Should I forget October and move our wedding to May? Should I refuse to go to her wedding? Should I be a complete nasty witch to her next time I have to endure being in her presence? Refuse to go to Mexico if she''s there?

At this point I feel like the most I can do to be the bigger person is to give her the complete silent treatment whenever I have to be around her. Don''t speak to her, don''t aknowledge her, ignore her completely. She might not care. But I can''t pretend to be nice, and I can''t bite my tounge and be civil.

 

[ephemery1]

Date: 9/28/2006 5:19:15 PM
Author: ellewoods

Fiance says that we should plan our wedding as before, and if they decide to go before us, screw 'em, we won't let it ruin our wedding plans and our times that should be happy and special. Of course I agree, but I will still be hurt and upset if they get married before us. How to handle it? I don't know. Suck it up and put on a happy face? I'm sure I'll do something like that. Hate every minute? Yes.

Right now I want to skip their wedding and not invite them to ours. Of course that's not realistic, unfortunately.

Even though I'm sure I'll do the right thing and grin and bear it (which is very difficult, but its not the hardest part), how do I change my feelings? How do I stop feeling hurt and upset? That's the hard part. How do I go on the planning trip and keep myself from feeling like I want to strangle her?

Elle... I think the best way to deal with/work through those feelings would be to truly think about WHY you are hurt and upset... rather than let it fester and grow.

1) Was it because the date they chose is too close to yours? Look at it this way... if they had planned their wedding for 2 months after yours, would you still be equally angry? If so, is it really fair to expect a 4 month window around your wedding just because your fiance bought the ring first? And if not, then...

2) Was it because you wanted your wedding to be first? Then think about this... what is so important about having it first? If you still have all the people you care about around you, and it is in your own unique location, and you are marrying the person you love... how does your fiance's brother getting married in August take away from any of that?

3) Because you think it was intentionally rude of your FSIL? You've already stated that they were worried about your reaction, so it seems unlikely that she is just totally overlooking your feelings... but you also stated that FSIL made it clear ages ago that she intended to get married in summer 2007... so is it possible that she thinks it was rude of YOU to plan your wedding that close to the date she had in mind?

ETA -- I'm really not trying to be contrary, but you seem like an intelligent, thoughtful person who is truly conflicted by these feelings... and for me, I think the best way of getting past those emotional reactions is to take a few steps back and figure out what is truly bothering you. Because if it is something like just wanting your wedding to be first, which feels a little petty (even though understandable!) your natural instinct might be too rationalize your own feelings by manufacturing other reasons... like "it will be too hard on the guests". Yes, it could be minorly annoying for some... but that is the nature of getting married in your late 20s. And in the grand scheme of things, it really is minor.

As I mentioned before, we have TEN weddings next year (that we know of!)... and our close friends tried to space them all at least 6 weeks apart to give everyone their own little "window", but even with that, FI's friend planned his for two weeks before ours. I was annoyed at first, and feeling similarly to you... so I was forced to work through all my OWN feelings on the matter. And I determined I was mostly just miffed that we weren't first in line anymore, combined with being annoying for guests (plus I don't even like his fiancee)... but that emotional reaction was MY problem, not theirs... even though it wasn't overly considerate of them. So at this point I'm focused on just planning/enjoying my own wedding... and having fun talking about all the planning with the other couples getting married next year... and ya know what? It's actually kind of nice sharing this whole experience with people we love!

 

[aljdewey]

-Fiance''s brother + fiance have stated that their reason for wanting to get married in August is the weather -- they want a destination wedding, on the lake, outside, which they say requires August (hot weather). She has not stated that her reason for August is that she wants to get married before she is 30. But that is my fiance''s and my strong assumption, based on everything we know about her and our experiences with her. Brother is 28, she is 29. Sept. she will be 30. But she has not stated that as a reason. I am not saying that reason is right or wrong, or justified or not justified. But if that''s her motivation, I''d appreciate her stating that. Saying August is required because of weather, and then planning an August wedding inside at another location where whether is a non-issue (which we heard may happen for the first time last night)-- that would make my blood boil.

This is what you said in your opening post: "I know she''s had a pre-destined timeline of when she wanted to get married (and it was years ago, even before she met my fiance''s brother). And I know that her age is an extremely sensitive issue with her -- she is desperate to get married before she turns 30 (September 2007)."

So why should she have to make a special announcement to "state" that as her motivation when it''s pretty clear you''re already aware of it? You already know that she''s desperate to marry before 30, and that desire existed loooooooooong before either of you became engaged. (In fact, I suspect it''s why she was so vocal about marrying next summer when you announced your engagement.....so you would be aware that she was intending/planning to hopefully marry next summer and to possibly avoid all this problem now.)

And yes, you have said it''s unjustified as a reason: "I think that''s ridiculous, personally..." Do you honestly think they aren''t aware that you think her reasoning is ridiculous? And seriously -- if they DO pick up on that vibe, I can see why they would be emphasizing the other reasons they want to marry when they do.

Now granted, that doesn''t mean it has to be *August*......but it has to be *before* September, 2007....and any date in that time frame is still before your wedding, making you ''not first''. She wants a summer wedding, so that means anything before June 2007 is out. That leaves June, July, August, and September of 07. Friends are marrying in June, July, and September, so I can see where August is the logical first choice for them.

You''ve also already said that moving it to June (the furthest point from your wedding) wouldn''t satisfy you either! You''ve already said so. So what you''re saying is, there is no compromise that will satisfy you except delaying the wedding until after yours....and that''s not a compromise. And if that''s your position, then I can see why they aren''t bothering to work something out. That is a rigid and unreasonable position on your part (in my humble opinion).

But the considerate thing would have been for them to approach my fiance and I together and explain their plans to us, just for our knowledge, regardless of whether they cared about our feelings, and regardless of whether they would have considered doing anything differently.

I have to candidly say that I think this WAS done.....but it was done by FI''s brother only. I think this is entirely reasonable. I can see where you may feel hurt that she didn''t feel comfortable being in on that conversation, but again, if they picked up a vibe that you might pitch a fit and try to bully them......well, I can see why they''d try to avoid that happening by having him handle it.

I don''t think they are obligated to explain themselves in general. However, since you are family, it would have absolutely been the polite/courteous thing to do. I agree with you there--that would have possibly been the best way to handle it.

But they didn''t, and it''s done now, and it cannot be undone. Focusing on something that cannot be changed now is really a waste of your time and energy.

As far as being reasonable, I am the most reasonable, overly accomodating person I know. Due to issues from my upbringing, I often stifile my own feelings and desires at the expense of others'', so that I don''t rock the boat, don''t make waves, don''t cause any conflicts. This does mean I am taken advantage of at times. I''m only pointing this out because anyone that knows me, would never feel apprehensive about approaching me about something like this. I am not known to be high maintenence, demanding, unflexible or anything of the sort.

I''m sure you are a reasonable person.

...even the most reasonable people have lapses of unreasonable moments. I honestly think you''re having on one of those now. You had a vision in your head.....that everyone was going to be focused on your wedding, and that it was going to be the event of the year.....as in the ONLY event. And now, something is threatening that, and you''re pissed about it. Fair enough. It''s NATURAL and normal to want to "be the bride" and have everyone completely focused on such an important event.....nothing wrong with that.

But sometimes, it''s just not possible, and at times like that, you have to gather the grace that you have, suck it up, and be an adult instead of having a temper tantrum becuase you''re not first.

My friend (I''ll call her Martha) has been w/her BF for 5 years; they became engaged 12/05 and set a wedding date of 10/07. Her best friend (we''ll call her Betty) has been dating her BF for 1.5 years. They got engaged 3/06 - one month after Martha''s engagement party. Betty has always wanted to marry in September, and she didn''t want to have to wait until 2008 to marry, and knew that 9/06 was going to be booked already! So, after much consideration, she choose 9/15/07.....3 weeks before Martha''s wedding.

Betty talked to Martha about it - their FIs weren''t involved in the discussion at all. Martha felt a bit funny initially, but realized that it wasn''t fair to expect Betty to defer her wedding for an entire year. She ultimately decided that it would be fun for them to be planning weddings together. A very mature way of seeing it! (Footnote: Betty ended up getting a great deal - 40% off her venue - to hold it THIS year September, and moved her wedding up. It was 2 weeks ago.) But the point is, Martha decided to look at the big picture.

-One thing I can''t resolve in my head. If the situation was reversed, they got engaged first and set a date -- then several months later we got engaged and announced we were going to marry 1-4 months before them, brother''s fiance would have flipped out. She would be upset. She would think we were selfish, and that she was being cheated out of their planning and engagement period. I am much less sensitive than she is about things like this, and look how upset I have gotten over this situation. So what I can''t resolve is that I know, brother knows, the brothers'' family knows, that she would be very upset in my situation. If you asked her, I think she''d even admit it. So why are they putting us in that position? They know that they would be upset, hurt, angry with us. Reasonable or unreasonable, they''d be upset, just like we are upset. But yet they did it anyway!

It''s possible you''re entirely right about that. Maybe she would be very pissed, and maybe she would think you were selfish. And if so, I''d say the same thing to her that several have said to you here: no one is guaranteed to have an "engagement and planning" period all to themselves. And if you were trying to meet a mental timeline in your head as she is, I''d say the same thing to her: that you (Elle) shouldn''t have to sacrifice that timeline just because you weren''t engaged first.

-And as far as me wanting to get married in October, on the date we''ve chosen and planned around, before brother + fiance -- why isn''t this desire just as valid as her desire to get married before 30? And some people are saying ''its not that big of a deal, so they get married first, just accept it, be the bigger person, don''t cause a fuss for the sake of your future interactions with her.'' Well if it''s not that big of a deal, then why is it a big deal for them to wait a little longer? Why can''t she be the bigger person and wait to save everyone this strife? Why doesn''t she do-the-right-thing because we will all be family for the rest of our lives and its best to keep the peace and not start WW3?

Because Elle......it''s possible for her to marry before she turns 30 AND for you to marry in October! Both those wants can be met. The other way arond, It''s NOT possible for her to marry before she''s 30 if she marries after October. So, both wants aren''t being met.

The problem is that you want ALL your criteria met. You want to marry in October AND you want to marry first AND you don''t want anyone else to infringe on the exclusivity of your planning/engagement! I''m sorry, but to me, that IS being selfish.....and I don''t see her being any more selfish than you are. The fact that they are even discussing June tells me that they are doing far more in the spirit of possible compromise than you are. You just want everything you want, and you don''t want to budge at all. And I also have to tell you that if I were her, and I felt this "not budging an inch", nothing will make you happy vibe......well, I confess, I''d dig my heels in about August, too.

I have to be candid and tell you that I think it''s bratty, childish, and extremely immature to worry about who marries first. I cannot believe a grown woman of marrying age can be so fixated on who''s first. It''s like two little kids fighting over who''s first in line. If you were my kids, I''d make you go stand in the corner!

That said, though, if it IS important to you, then it is, and you then have to make a choice on which you care about more: marrying in October or marrying first. If you absolutely have to satisfy that "me first" element, then you move up the wedding.

Even if you DID move your date, you still won''t be the only wedding next summer, so you won''t get that "exclusive, only-about-us" vibe that you want. So, it''s kind of pointless to move your date unless being first is the most important thing to you.

-One big problem still exists whether I shut up and accept this or not. The Mexico trip in November. Fiance and I are going with his family to find a location for the wedding. I cannot stomach the thought of having to go on a wedding scouting trip with HER there. If you think that''s selfish or stubborn well fine.

Actually, I don''t think that''s selfish. I can certainly understand wanting each event to remain separate, including the planning.

I think you could either drop out of that trip and go on a trip with just your FI, or you could go on the family trip and just vacation with no location-scouting, and make your own later trip to scout sans family.

 

[Maria D]

Elle, maybe this will help you feel better. Google up "post-wedding blues." Once you have the wedding, it''s over. You are no longer the princess. GETTING MARRIED LAST COULD BE FOR THE BEST, if you let it!

Honestly, you really don''t like this girl. Yeah, sure you like her even less now but you didn''t like her before any of this if you were trying to talk your fiance''s brother out of proposing. Are you going to let this person you don''t even like ruin your entire engagement period? You could look at the November Thanksgiving trip as "it''s all about me, my love, and our wedding!" and be joyous -- or you could look at it as the nightmare trip that the intruder has to be in on and let it ruin your planning. Why are you doing this to yourself, your fiance and his family? It would be better to cancel planning on the November trip than to go with a chip on your shoulder. If you keep it up, *you* are going to appear to be the whiny brat who must have her way, not her.

You have the power to bring joy to your life.

 

[ellewoods]

Ephemery,

I''ll make a clarification -- brother''s fiance was NOT worried about our reaction. Brother''s fiance didn''t care.

Fiance''s brother, however, did have a hard time telling my fiance of the August plans. His brother didn''t state that he was "worried about our reaction," but his brother did say that he has been having a really tough time dealing with this (his fiance''s August plans), and that he had been putting himself in our shoes and thinking about how he would be upset if roles were reversed. He knew it would be upsetting to anyone in our situation.

Fiance''s brother told me yesterday, "I have looked at this over and over from your guys'' standpoint and that is why I am trying to figure out ways to somewhat make it easier on you guys. My brother said that for him one of the largest issues was that it was so close in time to your wedding, so we are going to try and look in June to make a bigger gap in between the two."

Another clarification -- As far as brother''s fiance having "planned" to get married in the summer of 2007 ages ago -- this was not the case. In May when we got engaged and were with the brothers'' family at a large event (first time we had seen any family after getting engaged), she basically thew a fit about it, sulked, and picked a fight with fiance''s brother about not being engaged yet. She also basically started picking a fight with me -- declaring that she absolutely had to get married in the summer, she could never get married any other time, she would get married in the summer no matter what. And at some point she said that she absolutely would not wait until summer 2008 to get married.

Let me remind everyone -- she was not engaged yet, not even near being engaged. She was talking about her wedding plans for whichever guy she ended up marrying -- not about established plans that she and fiance''s brother had made or anything like that.

So there were no established plans made by her + fiance''s brother, there was no date "chosen," nothing like that. There was just her throwing a fit because she wasn''t engaged yet, her declaring to me that she was getting married in summer no matter what, and I just thought she''d calm down and act normally once she got engaged herself. I never dreamed that we''d be in this situation.