diamonds as safe haven

[slg47]

Kenny, but that is not exactly the situation. I'd be selling for around $22k-25k and buying a new stone for around $15k plus $2000 for setting. So I end up with $5-7k in my pocket.

Looks like Neil thinks prices will continue to rise so maybe it is best to replace immediately.

also...(DS you may correct me!) DS is not looking to /make money/ necessarily...but looking for jewelry pieces to wear that will make her happy. so the situation is different than someone who is looking purely for an investment.

 

[bgray]

Okay slightly different question related to my original question. If one had a large diamond that had increased so much in value since the time of purchase that one would profit even as a consumer would now be a good time to sell?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Yes, in my experience it is a fantastic time to sell! But it is best to sell wisely.

 

[bgray]

any recs on best way to sell. (i.e just approach private dealers?) the auction houses are absolute frauds in my opinion.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Kenny, but that is not exactly the situation. I'd be selling for around $22k-25k and buying a new stone for around $15k plus $2000 for setting. So I end up with $5-7k in my pocket.

Looks like Neil thinks prices will continue to rise so maybe it is best to replace immediately.

also...(DS you may correct me!) DS is not looking to /make money/ necessarily...but looking for jewelry pieces to wear that will make her happy. so the situation is different than someone who is looking purely for an investment.

Correct, my diamond was bought as jewelry for my own enjoyment at full retail. I was considering trading in but as prices began to rise it became apparent that I could make a profit by selling the stone. But I do want a smaller stone to wear as a replacement. I would not buy diamonds as an investment to hold instead of cash. I would buy gold and silver. I was just incredibly lucky to buy a high quality diamond that has appreciated significantly in value.

 

[bgray]

Kenny, but that is not exactly the situation. I'd be selling for around $22k-25k and buying a new stone for around $15k plus $2000 for setting. So I end up with $5-7k in my pocket.

Looks like Neil thinks prices will continue to rise so maybe it is best to replace immediately.

also...(DS you may correct me!) DS is not looking to /make money/ necessarily...but looking for jewelry pieces to wear that will make her happy. so the situation is different than someone who is looking purely for an investment.

Correct, my diamond was bought as jewelry for my own enjoyment at full retail. I was considering trading in but as prices began to rise it became apparent that I could make a profit by selling the stone. But I do want a smaller stone to wear as a replacement. I would not buy diamonds as an investment to hold instead of cash. I would buy gold and silver. I was just incredibly lucky to buy a high quality diamond that has appreciated significantly in value.

diamondseeker2006-thats my situation. i bought a stone that has skyrocketed (on paper). I could never afford it now! If I could get a good price for it I would gladly give it up for the extra cash in the bank

 

[kenny]

Okay slightly different question related to my original question. If one had a large diamond that had increased so much in value since the time of purchase that one would profit even as a consumer would now be a good time to sell?

Sure, and if people keep having sex in India and China 10 and 20 and 30 years from now may be even better.

 

[bgray]

Okay slightly different question related to my original question. If one had a large diamond that had increased so much in value since the time of purchase that one would profit even as a consumer would now be a good time to sell?

Sure, and if people keep having sex in India and China 10 and 20 and 30 years from now may be even better.

oh boy.... (well I am worried about the world: was thinking of buying several 1.25 ish ideal cuts and maybe selling my stone)

 

[diamondseeker2006]

any recs on best way to sell. (i.e just approach private dealers?) the auction houses are absolute frauds in my opinion.

A desirable, high quality stone may resell close to retail with a fee for the consignment. Some consignment fees are based on the value of the diamond. But you can expect to pay around 10-15% for commission on a diamond over a certain value. In my case, there is a reduction in the fee if I buy my replacement stone there. My advice is to contact both Good Old Gold and Jewels by Erica Grace and see if either of those would work for you. I think lower quality stones will not necessarily result in any profit and maybe a loss. I am only speaking from my personal situation and not with the knowledge of the broader market, of course. And my stone is in the process of being consigned so I can't tell you the end result with 100% certainty yet, either! I just wanted a smaller stone before the price increase anyway. So my decision is not based on the profit I will make. That is just the lucky part!

 

[bgray]

any recs on best way to sell. (i.e just approach private dealers?) the auction houses are absolute frauds in my opinion.

A desirable, high quality stone may resell close to retail with a fee for the consignment. Some consignment fees are based on the value of the diamond. But you can expect to pay around 10-15% for commission on a diamond over a certain value. In my case, there is a reduction in the fee if I buy my replacement stone there. My advice is to contact both Good Old Gold and Jewels by Erica Grace and see if either of those would work for you. I think lower quality stones will not necessarily result in any profit and maybe a loss. I am only speaking from my personal situation and not with the knowledge of the broader market, of course. And my stone is in the process of being consigned so I can't tell you the end result with 100% certainty yet, either! I just wanted a smaller stone before the price increase anyway. So my decision is not based on the profit I will make. That is just the lucky part!

thanks for your input. I was actually thinking of selling mine and getting several smaller stones to put away and maybe wear one pair as earrings. i may make a few inquiries thanks!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am sure I will end up buying other things with my proceeds! That is the nice thing about selling a larger diamond and wanting smaller ones! Good luck and let me know what you decide!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Gosh, I just looked and your ering is amazing. I think JBEG is a good choice but GOG might get more lookers. I'd talk with both because they both would likely accept your ring. I wish I could afford it!!!

 

[bgray]

thanks so much-- i cant recall even posting it...

 

[Rockdiamond]

Sure, the right diamond under the right circumstances for the right person would have done better than GM stock. That’s a pretty low bar and it is not evidence that this will be the case in the future. Then again, the right stock would have done better than that diamond over the same period. Hindsight is a lot easier than foresight. Overall, most stockholders in public companies, including GM, have been pretty happy with their returns over the last 100 years. This has NOT been the case with consumers of diamonds.

Diamonds are going up for some good reasons that I agree are likely to continue, including:

The diamond engagement tradition is expanding quickly around the world. More brides in more places are wanting diamonds than ever before.
The population of the world is growing.
Wages in producing countries like India are on the rise.
No significant new diamond deposits have been discovered in years.

Does all of that make them a good financial investment? I think not, although the mining companies, cutters and dealers may be good places to stick a few bucks. I agree with Kenny above that the best percentage return is on the most expensive items, the issue with these is on the selling end as well. Most consumers don’t have the opportunity to reach an eager Chinese bride or a Chinese collector who is equally eager to buy their stone and the path is difficult for both parties.

We agree in principle Neil- but if you look at the part I bolded I used GM stock for a reason- It was thought, at one time, to be a very sure bet.
I'm sure that , statistically, you're correct about consumers investing in stocks, versus diamonds, over the past 50 years.

Kenny- I agree about large versus small- and I feel it holds true for Yellows as well.
Maybe I'm missing the boat on the smaller super high ticket colors.....but if you could have a drop dead gorgeous 4ct Y-Z Cushion, or a .10ct Argyle Fancy Red.....it's an interesting choice.
Or how about 4 x two carat internally flawless vivid yellow Asscher cuts versus one Argyle Tender .50ct?

 

[kenny]

A yellow is a yellow, a very common color.
A red is a red, the most rare color.
Supply and demand have established what size of each you can get for a given budget.

If a 10-pt Red is the same price as a 4 ct Yellow, a kitchen remodel, or a new Lexus so be it.

In all four instances you get what you pay for.
Nobody got ripped off or got a better deal.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

thanks so much-- i cant recall even posting it...

It was in a thread when you were considering an eternity ring. I love it and someone will be very fortunate to be able to buy it!

 

[bgray]

thanks so much-- i cant recall even posting it...

It was in a thread when you were considering an eternity ring. I love it and someone will be very fortunate to be able to buy it!

oh right! thanks! well i got the perfect eternity band on ebay of all places. and i wear that 24/7.

 

[Rockdiamond]

A yellow is a yellow, a very common color.
A red is a red, the most rare color.
Supply and demand have established what size of each you can get for a given budget.

If a 10-pt Red is the same price as a 4 ct Yellow, a kitchen remodel, or a new Lexus so be it.

In all four instances you get what you pay for.
Nobody got ripped off or got a better deal.

But the yellow has a lot in common with the red- as opposed to a Lexus. We can justify those new kitchens by saying they increase the value of the property.
Now if you said Porsche, and it's low mileage, and the right colors- that's a different story

I would say that if we're talking about Pink- or blue- outside Argyle stones- the increases, percentage wise, are comparable to those seen with 5carat Fancy Yellow, for example.

Even lighter yellow stones have increased - by a very nice percentage- with the rest of the market over the past year.

 

[bgray]

A yellow is a yellow, a very common color.
A red is a red, the most rare color.
Supply and demand have established what size of each you can get for a given budget.

If a 10-pt Red is the same price as a 4 ct Yellow, a kitchen remodel, or a new Lexus so be it.

In all four instances you get what you pay for.
Nobody got ripped off or got a better deal.

But the yellow has a lot in common with the red- as opposed to a Lexus. We can justify those new kitchens by saying they increase the value of the property.
Now if you said Porsche, and it's low mileage, and he right colors- that's a different story

I would say that if we're talking about Pink- or blue- outside Argyle stones- the increases, percentage wise, are comparable to those seen with 5carat Fancy Yellow, for example.

Even lighter yellow stones have increased - by a very nice percentage- with the rest of the market over the past year.

Kenny and Rock--a couple comments about yellow verses red and other rarities. one key element in investing is liquidity. so while yellow may be more common and less of a true top line investment like a red or purple or green diamond its probably more liquid because it may be easier to find a buyer for a 100,000 stone than a 500,000 stone............? does this make any sense?

 

[kenny]

I realize your business specializes in yellow diamonds (so you must defend your income from a perceived slight, incorrect assumption BTW) and most people are into size, so you win. Fer sure. Fer sure.

... but the market, supply and demand, already takes those factors you mentioned into account when arriving at prices.
Everything costs what it should cost in a free economy.
Someone wanting a real natural Red diamond will not want a Lexus, a kitchen remo, or a 4 ct Yellow diamond and is at peace with only getting 10 points.

Besides, these 4 items do not compare or compete, since people vary.
There's something for everyone.

 

[kenny]

A yellow is a yellow, a very common color.
A red is a red, the most rare color.
Supply and demand have established what size of each you can get for a given budget.

If a 10-pt Red is the same price as a 4 ct Yellow, a kitchen remodel, or a new Lexus so be it.

In all four instances you get what you pay for.
Nobody got ripped off or got a better deal.

But the yellow has a lot in common with the red- as opposed to a Lexus. We can justify those new kitchens by saying they increase the value of the property.
Now if you said Porsche, and it's low mileage, and he right colors- that's a different story

I would say that if we're talking about Pink- or blue- outside Argyle stones- the increases, percentage wise, are comparable to those seen with 5carat Fancy Yellow, for example.

Even lighter yellow stones have increased - by a very nice percentage- with the rest of the market over the past year.

Kenny and Rock--a couple comments about yellow verses red and other rarities. one key element in investing is liquidity. so while yellow may be more common and less of a true top line investment like a red or purple or green diamond its probably more liquid because it may be easier to find a buyer for a 100,000 stone than a 500,000 stone............? does this make any sense?

Sure, but my Red diamond was not $500,000.
It was cheap, only $36K.

I do not kid myself.
Most people are into size not color-rarity.
A 10 pt Red is MUCH less fungible than a 4 ct Yellow of the same value.

 

[bgray]

Sure, but my Red diamond was not $500,000.
It was cheap, only $36K.

I do not kid myself.
Most are into size not color-rarity.
A 10 pt Red is MUCH less fungible than a 4 ct Yellow of the same value.[/quote]


gotcha--i dont know too much about that level of stone.

 

[Dreamer_D]

any recs on best way to sell. (i.e just approach private dealers?) the auction houses are absolute frauds in my opinion.

A desirable, high quality stone may resell close to retail with a fee for the consignment. Some consignment fees are based on the value of the diamond. But you can expect to pay around 10-15% for commission on a diamond over a certain value. In my case, there is a reduction in the fee if I buy my replacement stone there. My advice is to contact both Good Old Gold and Jewels by Erica Grace and see if either of those would work for you. I think lower quality stones will not necessarily result in any profit and maybe a loss. I am only speaking from my personal situation and not with the knowledge of the broader market, of course. And my stone is in the process of being consigned so I can't tell you the end result with 100% certainty yet, either! I just wanted a smaller stone before the price increase anyway. So my decision is not based on the profit I will make. That is just the lucky part!

Also contact the usual vendors we talk about here on PS and ask what they would give you for thew rock. It is not as much as consigning could garner, but consigning is a crap shoot and can take a long time to sell. I sold my diaond directly to a vendor, as did another PSer, Laila69.

Re: the original question, if you can buy a diamond on the secondary market that has highly desirable specs, you would lose less on resale, maybe even lose nothing if the price is right, maybe even make a profit. I sold my 1.67ct diamond recently for a small profit and have replaced it with items I bought on the secondary market for probably 50% or more below retail. I know I could sell those items myself for what I paid or more. It is riskier though, than buying straight retail. And I did not buy super high ticket items that would be more difficult to sell privately.

 

[bgray]

any recs on best way to sell. (i.e just approach private dealers?) the auction houses are absolute frauds in my opinion.

A desirable, high quality stone may resell close to retail with a fee for the consignment. Some consignment fees are based on the value of the diamond. But you can expect to pay around 10-15% for commission on a diamond over a certain value. In my case, there is a reduction in the fee if I buy my replacement stone there. My advice is to contact both Good Old Gold and Jewels by Erica Grace and see if either of those would work for you. I think lower quality stones will not necessarily result in any profit and maybe a loss. I am only speaking from my personal situation and not with the knowledge of the broader market, of course. And my stone is in the process of being consigned so I can't tell you the end result with 100% certainty yet, either! I just wanted a smaller stone before the price increase anyway. So my decision is not based on the profit I will make. That is just the lucky part!

Also contact the usual vendors we talk about here on PS and ask what they would give you for thew rock. It is not as much as consigning could garner, but consigning is a crap shoot and can take a long time to sell. I sold my diaond directly to a vendor, as did another PSer, Laila69.

Re: the original question, if you can buy a diamond on the secondary market that has highly desirable specs, you would lose less on resale, maybe even lose nothing if the price is right, maybe even make a profit. I sold my 1.67ct diamond recently for a small profit and have replaced it with items I bought on the secondary market for probably 50% or more below retail. I know I could sell those items myself for what I paid or more. It is riskier though, than buying straight retail. And I did not buy super high ticket items that would be more difficult to sell privately.

Thanks Dreamer--very helpful and kind of where i am at

 

[denverappraiser]

any recs on best way to sell. (i.e just approach private dealers?) the auction houses are absolute frauds in my opinion.

A desirable, high quality stone may resell close to retail with a fee for the consignment. Some consignment fees are based on the value of the diamond. But you can expect to pay around 10-15% for commission on a diamond over a certain value. In my case, there is a reduction in the fee if I buy my replacement stone there. My advice is to contact both Good Old Gold and Jewels by Erica Grace and see if either of those would work for you. I think lower quality stones will not necessarily result in any profit and maybe a loss. I am only speaking from my personal situation and not with the knowledge of the broader market, of course. And my stone is in the process of being consigned so I can't tell you the end result with 100% certainty yet, either! I just wanted a smaller stone before the price increase anyway. So my decision is not based on the profit I will make. That is just the lucky part!

Also contact the usual vendors we talk about here on PS and ask what they would give you for thew rock. It is not as much as consigning could garner, but consigning is a crap shoot and can take a long time to sell. I sold my diaond directly to a vendor, as did another PSer, Laila69.

Re: the original question, if you can buy a diamond on the secondary market that has highly desirable specs, you would lose less on resale, maybe even lose nothing if the price is right, maybe even make a profit. I sold my 1.67ct diamond recently for a small profit and have replaced it with items I bought on the secondary market for probably 50% or more below retail. I know I could sell those items myself for what I paid or more. It is riskier though, than buying straight retail. And I did not buy super high ticket items that would be more difficult to sell privately.

If you're a better seller than the person you buy from then there's money on the table. This is true no matter what you're buying. I know a fair number of people who make a living buying and selling diamonds and there *IS* money to be made doing it. All of the advertisers here, for example, are doing exactly that. Jewelers, as a group, aren't doing especially well right not but it is possible and some are being very successful. Is it possible to get a piece of that money? Definitely. Can a particular person do it? Maybe. That depends more on them than the stones.

 

[Rockdiamond]

A yellow is a yellow, a very common color.
A red is a red, the most rare color.
Supply and demand have established what size of each you can get for a given budget.

If a 10-pt Red is the same price as a 4 ct Yellow, a kitchen remodel, or a new Lexus so be it.

In all four instances you get what you pay for.
Nobody got ripped off or got a better deal.

But the yellow has a lot in common with the red- as opposed to a Lexus. We can justify those new kitchens by saying they increase the value of the property.
Now if you said Porsche, and it's low mileage, and he right colors- that's a different story

I would say that if we're talking about Pink- or blue- outside Argyle stones- the increases, percentage wise, are comparable to those seen with 5carat Fancy Yellow, for example.

Even lighter yellow stones have increased - by a very nice percentage- with the rest of the market over the past year.

Kenny and Rock--a couple comments about yellow verses red and other rarities. one key element in investing is liquidity. so while yellow may be more common and less of a true top line investment like a red or purple or green diamond its probably more liquid because it may be easier to find a buyer for a 100,000 stone than a 500,000 stone............? does this make any sense?

First- on where to sell:
If it's a specialty item, go to places that sell such items.
I find that there's as much of a problem with "bad" professional buyers as there are with some pushy sellers.
Walk down 47th st and you get molested
'YOU SELLING?"
Instead of 50cents on the dollar they're looking to pay 10cents on the dollar.

Find someone who will fairly evaluate the diamond- and offer you a percentage- like the way they do it on the TV show...Pawn Stars.

In terms of colors, and investing: I think that certain yellows are right up there with Pinks in terms of collectability- and most importantly- desirability among people who can step up and pay the price.
Internally Flawless Vivid Yellow is a great example.

I think less "exotic" stones- like Fancy Yellow diamonds under 2cts are more in line with colorless in terms of consumer sale-ability.


Kenny- I am giving my assessment of the market as I see it.
I am not trying to "defend Yellow"- we have quite a few colors besides yellow, including red.

 

[kenny]

. . . we have quite a few colors besides yellow, including red.

I looked.
I didn't see any Reds.
I did see a $98K .27 ct Fancy Purplish Red, which apparently is not your stone since it says you are just a broker for it, whatever that means.
http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-incredibly-rare-fancy-purplish-red-radiant-diamond-gia-r4300

In its video you said you were surprised GIA graded it only Fancy Purplish Red, and not Fancy Vivid Purplish Red or Fancy Intense Purplish red.

I'm astonished that you, a seller of FCDs, do not know that GIA issues only the "Fancy" tone/saturation grade on Reds.
All of GIA's other eight grades of Tone/Saturation, Faint, Very Light, Light, Fancy Light, Fancy Intense, Fancy Vivid, Fancy Deep, Fancy Dark never appear in diamonds that GIA grades Red.

I'd correct the audio track on your video as, to an informed shopper, it makes you appear incompetent to be representing such goods.
Oh, BTW it's a 27 pt, not a 29 pt like you say twice in your video.

Also, nobody in their right mind would EVER throw money away by polishing off an Argyle inscription.
Also nobody in their right mind would EVER polish off 2 pts of a Purplish Red diamond.
Sure, we all want a diamond with an Argyle laser inscription but some stones from Argyle just don't have it.
Even if those two things were true, claiming things beyond the GIA report can only raise suspicions, and erode that precious trust customers depend on when spending big bucks on tiny rocks.

Lastly, saying it might go for twice the price, $196K, if it was Pure Red instead of Purplish Red is absurd since Leibish has this GIA PURE Red 0.20 pt listed for only $58,200.
You can't tell me 7 points raises the price $137,800.

I can only surmise you have made an enormous typographical error when you priced that 27 pt FpR at $98K.

http://www.fancydiamonds.net/view_diamonds/5571.htm

 

[canuk-gal]

Kenny, but that is not exactly the situation. I'd be selling for around $22k-25k and buying a new stone for around $15k plus $2000 for setting. So I end up with $5-7k in my pocket.

Looks like Neil thinks prices will continue to rise so maybe it is best to replace immediately.

also...(DS you may correct me!) DS is not looking to /make money/ necessarily...but looking for jewelry pieces to wear that will make her happy. so the situation is different than someone who is looking purely for an investment.

Correct, my diamond was bought as jewelry for my own enjoyment at full retail. I was considering trading in but as prices began to rise it became apparent that I could make a profit by selling the stone. But I do want a smaller stone to wear as a replacement. I would not buy diamonds as an investment to hold instead of cash. I would buy gold and silver. I was just incredibly lucky to buy a high quality diamond that has appreciated significantly in value.

diamondseeker2006-thats my situation. i bought a stone that has skyrocketed (on paper). I could never afford it now! If I could get a good price for it I would gladly give it up for the extra cash in the bank

HI:

Someone just bought a 3.75 EC (tenyearanniversary) posted here inqiring last week about EC's cusions cuts, etc....so I guess it couldn't hurt posting your ring on the previously owned forum (here).

cheers--Sharon

 

[Rockdiamond]

Thanks for looking at our listing Kenny!
Also for the fact verification about the weight. We will add a correction the video
My remarks go to the fact that GIA does grade Red diamonds differently than other colors. This is not widely known- I was surprised.

Interesting assertion about how intelligent the cutter that got this grade from GIA might be or not be.
Considering the rarity of red- or purplish red diamonds, it might make all the sense in the world to do what it takes to get that grade.
Or, put another way, a .27ct Purplish Red, without an Argyle laser inscription is worth more than a .30ct Fancy Deep Pink verifiable Argyle non tender diamond.

Same thing about the price- if you think it's high, you're certainly entitled to that opinion.
There's just not a lot of comparable stones out there.
Doing a quick industry search yields mixed results- there are Fancy Purplish Red diamonds for more than the one we have on the site. I saw fancy reds above 1/3ct going for upwards of $750k per carat- and half carat pure reds going for close to a mil per carat.
Others are less- or other Fancy Red diamonds which are comparable in price to the Fancy Purplish Red on our site.

You have to remember, that in these colors, how the diamond looks makes a huge difference. There's times where it'snot possible to compare stones and prices based solely on grades- and Red diamonds, in general make a great example for that.
I can't speak to other vendors wares- but suffice it to say I have great respect for all my Pricescope co-sponsors. I know your collection is lovely.

 

[Gypsy]

http://www.fancydiamonds.net/view_diamonds/5571.htm

Kenny, that's beautiful. You are a really great resource for fancy diamonds. IF I ever buy a fancy I'm going to have to tap you! I'm STILL in raptures over your green. Oy.