Did any bride''s parents ask for a dowry?

[rainbowtrout]

I really hope you are a crazy internet person who likes to lie, because if not what your parents are doing is TERRIBLE.

There''s being tightfisted and frugal with your children, and then there is lying and emotionally blackmailing them into giving you money that should be rightfully theirs.


I seriously don''t know what I would do with them. Disinvite them from the wedding? Try to arrange the envelopes be given secretly?

Have you ever tried to have a talk with them about how they handle money?

So sorry this is happening to you.

 

[rainbowtrout]

for the record, my friend from Ghana''s parents wanted a traditional dowry: a goat. Being reasonable people, they settled for her FI"s parents coming over with a leg of lamb and a stuffed goat, and their committment to celebrate the traditions of Ghana also (the couple had their engagement ceremony there).

THAT"s reasonable.

 

[Cheekyprincess]

I am living in Singapore, practically all weddings here are Chinese traditional, the guests are supposed to give the angpo (red packet) that will cover the cost of their seat/food etc at the reception. So the red packets might go to the parents, if they paid for the reception, as it is to cover those costs.

 

[qtiekiki]

Ok I am Chinese and I had heard this. My mom had mentioned it to me when we got married that sometimes the bride''s parents keep the red envelopes from their guests (not every guests) as the dowry instead of getting it ahead of time. Dowry in Chinese culture is usually cash and gifts that the groom''s family gives to the bride''s family (the amounts are discussed and agree upon during parents meeting). My mom didn''t ask for any dowry, but my MIL asked her what she wanted when we were meeting about the wedding. If your parents want a dowry, then they should''ve asked for one. With that said, is there any way your parents can let you keep the red envelopes for the wedding and get a dowry later on when you have extra cash? Just to compromise and make them happy. I know how Asian parents can be with cultures and traditions and it''s tough dealing with cultures clashes since we had many arguments over traditions as well. Hang in there; everything will turn out fine.

 

[wolftress]

Date: 1/18/2007 2:12:11 AM
Author: Cheekyprincess
I am living in Singapore, practically all weddings here are Chinese traditional, the guests are supposed to give the angpo (red packet) that will cover the cost of their seat/food etc at the reception. So the red packets might go to the parents, if they paid for the reception, as it is to cover those costs.

The same thing happened to my friend when she got married. Her parents paid for most of the wedding, so they asked to keep the red packets. Personally, if my parents helped pay for the wedding, I would not mind so much if they wanted to red packets as it would have put them out of pocket.

When my parents got married, my grandmother demanded the same thing from my father - he had to throw a lavish wedding, and give her their red packets, even though my grandparents were extremely wealthy. So now, my parents think because that happened to them, they should carry on the tradition.

My FI have agreed that this stupid tradition ends here. If and when we have children, we will do our best to help with their wedding, and NOT ask to keep their gifts!!

 

[Cheekyprincess]

Is there any way you can ask your friends to give gifts for you, rather than the angpo? I know it isn''t traditional, but at least then you will get to keep a few things you actually need, and whatever money is given by relatives etc might have to go to your parents (who are being stubborn and selfish).

 

[wolftress]

Date: 1/18/2007 2:14:00 AM
Author: qtiekiki
Ok I am Chinese and I had heard this. My mom had mentioned it to me when we got married that sometimes the bride''s parents keep the red envelopes from their guests (not every guests) as the dowry instead of getting it ahead of time. Dowry in Chinese culture is usually cash and gifts that the groom''s family gives to the bride''s family (the amounts are discussed and agree upon during parents meeting). My mom didn''t ask for any dowry, but my MIL asked her what she wanted when we were meeting about the wedding. If your parents want a dowry, then they should''ve asked for one. With that said, is there any way your parents can let you keep the red envelopes for the wedding and get a dowry later on when you have extra cash? Just to compromise and make them happy. I know how Asian parents can be with cultures and traditions and it''s tough dealing with cultures clashes since we had many arguments over traditions as well. Hang in there; everything will turn out fine.

Qtiekiki, just out of curiousity, is your hubby Chinese too?

 

[wolftress]

Date: 1/18/2007 2:20:53 AM
Author: Cheekyprincess
Is there any way you can ask your friends to give gifts for you, rather than the angpo? I know it isn''t traditional, but at least then you will get to keep a few things you actually need, and whatever money is given by relatives etc might have to go to your parents (who are being stubborn and selfish).

Our friends are secretly giving us our red packets so they don''t go to my parents, because they know our biggest problem now is footing the bill for the wedding. But the majority of our guests are my parent''s relatives, so I don''t think it will help a lot...

 

[Trelala]

I haven''t heard of this tradition or tweaking tradition in such a way! Did your grandparents keep your parents'' wedding gifts too?
I can get pretty cheeky with my parents too, I''d call their bluff as TravelingGal suggested.

 

[bee*]

That''s terrible! I cant believe that they would take your cash gifts when they arent putting money towards the wedding! If your dad refuses to be in the wedding simply because you wont give him your gifts then so be it.

 

[whatmeworry]

My FI is Thai/Chinese and she said it''s customary in Thailand to give a dowry which the parents would in turn give back to the couple as a gift to start their new life. FI said it was okay just to give my future MIL a piece of jewelry so I got a really cool Whiteflash ACA pendant to give her.

 

[ladykemma]

i would have a tough friend guard the gift table at the reception.

 

[anchor31]

I''m sorry this is happening to you! I hope you''ll find a way around this.

 

[chrono]

I am sorry to hear this Wolftress. I''ve never heard of such a thing in my life and none of my relatives or his practise such strange customs.

I''m Chinese too but my parents never collected my red packets during my wedding. Not only did my parents and his parents shared the cost of the receptions (we had 2 in 2 different places), we kept our red packets too! My hubby gave my parents a "dowry" consisting of money, fruits, sweets and etc. to represent his thanking them for bringing up his future wife. In return, my parents returned only the money to him as a gift to start our new married life together. I also received gold jewellery from both sets of parents.

The same was done with my sister''s wedding and she married a foreigner too!

 

[robbie3982]

Wow! I really can''t believe that they would try to take YOUR wedding gifts. Especially if they''re not even going to help pay for the wedding! I know you want your parents there and want to have them walk down the aisle, but you can''t let them walk all over you like this! You really need to stand up for yourself and if they don''t come or refuse to walk you down the aisle, think of it as their loss.

 

[sparkel]

I agree with what everyone else has said on this topic. I think that their request is unresonable and mean spirited. On another note though as a guest I would be very upset to learn that my gift had not gone to the bride and groom. It''s no different in my opinion than taking away somebody''s birthday gifts. In your shoes I think that I would likely have to tell them that they are making the choice not to attend the wedding but that you are not financial able to give them your wedding money.. end of story. And maybe remind them that if they don''t show up their absence will be obvious it will reflect badly on them (your parents). In addition to that I personally would tell the honest truth about why your parents were not present (and make your parents aware that you would be doing this) They are trying to manipulate you so perhaps a taste of their own medicine might work.

Hope you get this solved because this whole situation has me very upset that your parents would try and do that to you.
Rebecca

 

[eleguin]

I am Chinese and while I grew up in a very non-traditional household, I have many friends with parents who are still very traditional (my fiance''s family included). When dealing with parents that still have a traditional mentality of family and children, it''s very difficult to use a more modern or "American" standard to judge their behavior. Saying "that''s not fair" or the like just wouldn''t work because they truly believe that they are entitled to certain things just because they are the parents. I know that in a lot of traditional households, there is still a lot of that "this is so because I say so" attitude. It''s very hard to use modern reason. When it comes to weddings, I wouldn''t be surprised if the bride/groom pay for the whole thing themselves but still are obligated to invite hundreds of their parents'' friends whom they''ve never met.

My grandparents were quite traditional and my mom told me that when she finished college and got her first job, she was still living with my grandparents, and my grandmother would take 2/3 of every paycheck. My mom wasn''t happy about it, but she gave it to her nonetheless without complaint. My grandmother''s belief was that she had spent all those years raising my mom and now she was entitled to the majority of what my mom earned. Luckily my mom didn''t believe in repeating what she thought was wrong, so she has never asked for a cent from me, which makes me more inclined to give back to them.

Wolftress, it''s really unfortunate that your parents are doing this. I know how Asian parents can be when it comes to tradition that they cling on to. It''s also not so easy to just cut them out of the wedding. I don''t know how good your relationship is with your parents otherwise or how well you can communicate with them, but I hope you can discuss these issues with them and make them understand how much you need these gifts to pay for the wedding. Good luck!

 

[larussel03]

Wow, I am floored! I''d tell them to not buy me the jewelry so that you and your FI can keep any money that comes from the guests. It''s not as though they''re taking out a loan to pay for the wedding and want the money to pay it back, at least that''d be some sort of REASON.

I wonder what made them think that they can even tell you they want the wedding money. YOUR name is on the card, not theirs!

What did you say when they requested this?

 

[Bunnifer]

Date: 1/18/2007 10:56:12 AM
Author: eleguin
I am Chinese and while I grew up in a very non-traditional household, I have many friends with parents who are still very traditional (my fiance''s family included). When dealing with parents that still have a traditional mentality of family and children, it''s very difficult to use a more modern or ''American'' standard to judge their behavior. Saying ''that''s not fair'' or the like just wouldn''t work because they truly believe that they are entitled to certain things just because they are the parents. I know that in a lot of traditional households, there is still a lot of that ''this is so because I say so'' attitude. It''s very hard to use modern reason. When it comes to weddings, I wouldn''t be surprised if the bride/groom pay for the whole thing themselves but still are obligated to invite hundreds of their parents'' friends whom they''ve never met.


My grandparents were quite traditional and my mom told me that when she finished college and got her first job, she was still living with my grandparents, and my grandmother would take 2/3 of every paycheck. My mom wasn''t happy about it, but she gave it to her nonetheless without complaint. My grandmother''s belief was that she had spent all those years raising my mom and now she was entitled to the majority of what my mom earned. Luckily my mom didn''t believe in repeating what she thought was wrong, so she has never asked for a cent from me, which makes me more inclined to give back to them.


Wolftress, it''s really unfortunate that your parents are doing this. I know how Asian parents can be when it comes to tradition that they cling on to. It''s also not so easy to just cut them out of the wedding. I don''t know how good your relationship is with your parents otherwise or how well you can communicate with them, but I hope you can discuss these issues with them and make them understand how much you need these gifts to pay for the wedding. Good luck!

I second everything Eleguin says. My grandmother was the same way with my mother, and (luckily for me!) my mom didn''t believe in repeating what she thought was wrong either.

I''ve found that it''s no use trying to argue "modern reasoning" with a traditionalist (which it sounds like your mom is.) It''s definitely not so easy to cut them out of the wedding, but I''m more afraid that if you do, they will remember this slight FOREVER (my mother has the world''s best memory when it comes to people doing her "wrong") and it might forever alter your relationship with your parents. If you can, try to discuss these issues with them and make them understand your position. The discussion might not be pretty, but they can''t deny your feelings (even if they disagree.) After all, you ARE their daughter.

 

[psaddict]

Wow... I can''t even believe what I''m reading here. This is probably the worst story I''ve ever heard about a wedding!! I have NEVER heard of any tradition from ANY culture that requires the gifts from FRIENDS and FAMILY MEMBERS to go to the bride''s parents!!! Some older traditions may involve a gift going from the groom or groom''s parents to the bride''s parents.. but that''s it. They don''t also get to dig in on all the wedding gifts and money you receive! That money is for you to start your life with, put towards a home or maybe into a savings for your children. I can''t believe your father is refusing to walk you down the aisle unless they get to take this money away from you, money your friends and family want to give YOU to start your life together! So basically, your parents expect you to pay for the wedding all by yourself-- and when guests come and give you gifts, they want to take the gifts. And they will resort to blackmailing you by threatening to not show up and embarrass you on your wedding day if you don''t let them cash in. I feel sick!!! This should be a wonderful special time for you, and your parents should be thrilled that you''re getting a little wedding gift money to start your new life together. Horrible..... so horrible!!!!

 

[eleguin]

Date: 1/18/2007 12:34:54 PM
Author: Bunnifer

they will remember this slight FOREVER (my mother has the world's best memory when it comes to people doing her 'wrong') and it might forever alter your relationship with your parents.

This is an important point with a lot of Asians (I don't mean to over-generalize, it has just been from what I've observed from my relatives and friends who are Asian). If you do something wrong or god-forbid "dishonorable" they will remember it forever and they will make sure you remember it too and use it against you for years to come.

I don't want to say you should just sigh and hand over your red envelopes to your parents, but if they don't listen to your side and don't understand where you're coming from, what else can you do short of creating strife with them? We can't choose who we are born to. For some people, once they've adopted a certain way of thinking, there is just no changing it. Try to keep all the gifts from your friends, but as far as their friends and relatives go, be careful not to ruin your relationship with your parents. They may seem selfish based on modern standards and their ideas may be antiquated, but they are still your parents afterall.

 

[psaddict]

I don''t know if I''d go at all easy on them for any reason. Not only are they being so nasty about this tradition that they''re threatening to not show up for their own daughter''s wedding, but the necklace they got you in the past was worn once and then went straight into their safety deposit box never to be seen again by you, and you expect the same will happen with the wedding necklace they got for you?? Maybe you can let them see the money for a day and then insist on putting it into your bank account for safekeeping.

 

[sumbride]

I''m as horrified as everybody else!

Whatever happened to the traditional notion that "losing your daughter" was a good thing? I mean didn''t people used to pay for someone to take her away? Weren''t daughters once seen as more of a liability than an asset?

 

[ephemery1]

Wow... what a miserable, unfair situation. I understand that it would be hard to use "modern" reasoning to argue with that kind of traditional thinking... but I''m wondering if you might be able to find some sort of "traditional rules" stating that IF the parents pay for the wedding, they get the red packets? Or even just saying "whoever pays for the wedding, keeps the red packets". I wouold think that might hold more weight than just having their daughter say "hey, that''s not fair".

And if that doesn''t work, could you have the envelopes all placed into a big box at the reception, and then have somebody quietly empty the box before the end of the night? Maybe leave just a few for your parents, and put the rest into your room for you.

 

[eleguin]

And if that doesn''t work, could you have the envelopes all placed into a big box at the reception, and then have somebody quietly empty the box before the end of the night? Maybe leave just a few for your parents, and put the rest into your room for you.

That is an interesting way of keeping your parents hands off the money

However I don''t think wolftress''s problem is literally keeping her parents away from the money physically. Even if they can''t find the envelopes, they obviously will know that she received them and will ask her for them. In the end, it''s the same thing. Are you willing to give your parents the money?

 

[Bunnifer]

Date: 1/18/2007 1:55:19 PM
Author: ephemery1
I''m wondering if you might be able to find some sort of ''traditional rules'' stating that IF the parents pay for the wedding, they get the red packets? Or even just saying ''whoever pays for the wedding, keeps the red packets''. I wouold think that might hold more weight than just having their daughter say ''hey, that''s not fair''.

Great idea, Ephem! Use their own tradition against them.

Remind them that they''re claiming the benefit of the tradition without following the WHOLE THING. If they won''t let you pick and choose which traditions to follow, they they can''t either! NOW what''s fair and what''s not??

 

[CrownJewel]

I think eleguin wrote exactly what I was thinking, except she did it in a very eloquent manner. Some Asian parents just seem to be of a different species and there are some matters, no matter how wrong they are in our minds, that we cannot fight with them about. It seems to me that in some Asian cultures, daughters are sort of "enslaved" to her parents (and then to her husbands parents after marriage), which is beyond our comprehension, but to some parents that is all they''ve ever known and it is impossible to reform their ideas. It took my very strict Chinese parents about 25 years of living in America (and many many arguments) to shed some of their traditional (i.e. stubborn) ways. If you have tried HARD to reason with them and they have not budged, it is unlikely that they ever will.

In that case the only way to stick to your principles while still maintaining respect for your parents (the worst thing in the world in any Asian culture is to disrespect your elders) is to pay them back for the necklace and come to even ground. They need to realize that your future husband has his own traditions which you need to follow too. Perhaps his traditions state that the bride''s family pays for the wedding and all wedding gifts are for the bride and groom ONLY. Do your parents live in America? One line that often gets the point across to my parents is, "We are not in China anymore. Why did you bring us to America if you can''t adopt American traditions?" Since your parents won''t pay for the wedding, maybe you can tell them that your fiance''s tradition states that wedding gifts go to the people who pay for the wedding. You can pay them back for the necklace and the necklace gets put into your fiance''s safe. I think some Asian parents see their daughters as having no sense of self, the daughter does what she is told by her parents, MIL, FIL and husband, and the daughter has no power of objection. Unfortunately, if this is how your parents see you, it may be easiest to play this card and say "well my fiance and his parents say this is what I have to do and I cannot object."

It sounds like you are in a VERY difficult situation and I second the idea that you ask your relatives for help in reasoning with your parents. What they are demanding is not only wrong in the modern sense, but it also seems wrong to many of us who are accustomed to the "ancient" Asian traditions. I hope your relatives can help you somehow find a way to compromise. I don''t think you should surrender your red envelopes, because the tradition is actually for elders to present red envelopes to the younger generations as a gesture of good luck, joy, health and prosperity.

If your parents threaten to not show up at the wedding, I don''t think that is your loss. There is no way that they will boycott the wedding if their names are on the invitations and all your relatives are there. It will be THEM that look bad, not you, if they are absent from the wedding.

 

[ephemery1]

Date: 1/18/2007 2:20:29 PM
Author: eleguin

And if that doesn't work, could you have the envelopes all placed into a big box at the reception, and then have somebody quietly empty the box before the end of the night? Maybe leave just a few for your parents, and put the rest into your room for you.

That is an interesting way of keeping your parents hands off the money

However I don't think wolftress's problem is literally keeping her parents away from the money physically. Even if they can't find the envelopes, they obviously will know that she received them and will ask her for them. In the end, it's the same thing. Are you willing to give your parents the money?

Just intended to be a somewhat facetious revision to their original plan to have their friends slip them the money directly... hence the winking face.

But I agree, the question that still remains is how far is it worth pushing the whole issue? Sounds like her sister tried, but was forced to give in.... unfortunately this may turn into a case of "picking your battles".

 

[Blenheim]

Date: 1/18/2007 2:16:49 AM
Author: wolftress

When my parents got married, my grandmother demanded the same thing from my father - he had to throw a lavish wedding, and give her their red packets, even though my grandparents were extremely wealthy. So now, my parents think because that happened to them, they should carry on the tradition.

Do you know how your parents felt about throwing their own wedding and giving your grandmother their red packets? If they were frustrated/annoyed/angry/etc, how would it go over if you said, "Do you remember how you felt when you threw your own wedding and grandmother made you give her your red packets? Why would you put me into that type of position?"

 

[psaddict]

I''ve searched all over the internet and can''t find anything that says there is a Chinese tradition for the parents to take all the money from the bride and groom after not paying for the wedding. For example this is from Wikipedia, about Chinese traditional wedding customs:

Once there, the couple then kneels and kow-tows to their parents, and to their ancestors - taking note to bow and kow-tow to all four directions (north, south, east and west). They will also pour tea and serve it to their parents, which then the parents accept and gives the couple a red envelope (or hong-bao) filled with cash. Usually, the mothers will take this opportunity to also give the bride many pieces of gold jewelry or heirlooms.
After this ceremony, it is considered that the couple is married, and the family and guests spend the evening feasting and drinking all night long. During this meal, the bride will change her outfit several times; generally a new outfit for each course. This shows her new family, and her guests her wealth and status. Often, many games will be played during this banquet. Guests give the bride and groom gifts of cash, stuffed in red packets or envelopes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedding_traditions_and_customs


From this, it sounds like the parents AND the guests give the couple gifts of cash in addition to jewelry. Not that the parents give no cash and take the cash that others have given to the couple! This "tradition" sounds like something that a few odd families may have forced on their kids, and not something that''s actually a widespread, cultural tradition.