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Disturbed and want some advice

ForteKitty

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
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My good friend has been having marital issues. They lived in another state (his home state), been married 8 years, together for 10. Her husband had a rough childhood and has a lot of social issues which stemmed from being verbally abused and neglected.

They were going thru a rough patch last year, and he asked for a trial separation. Few months later, they got back together and decided to work on things. A few months ago, they decided to move back to her hometown in Los Angeles. A few weeks ago, she decided she never got over the hurt and realized she was harboring a lot of resentment towards how he treated her in the past.

They both have issues. She changed a lot to fit into his expectations. He was the first and only man she has ever dated. He has only known half of his wife, and not the whole wife. Now that she is back in her home turf, the rest of her emerged. It was a shock as he never knew that side of her.

Both of them have been to counseling, as a couple, and as individuals. He has trust/anger issues, she has self esteem issues.

She recently asked for another trial separation. And at the urging of her counselor, she asked for the ability to see other people during the break. He didn't want to lose her, so he agreed. He is also moving back to his home state (at the recommendation of her counselor) to work out his own issues with his primary counselor.

This really disturbed me. She is asking me for dating advice, and I just cannot get past what her counselor recommended. I want her to talk to someone else, but she firmly believes this professional knows what she's talking about.

Somehow i dont understand how being separated by 2500 miles and an ocean, WITH the ability to date others will help their marriage? I'm trying to be supportive, but it's really hard.

Professional counselors, do you agree with that method?

eta: her counselor said that the only way she will know if he is truly the ONE, is if she dates around and realize her husband is the best for her. wtf?!
 
Forte - I'm not a counselor but here is what I think. Perhaps the person she is seeing realizes that she has changed a lot about her self to fit another person, and she has only been with that one person, and here they are having issues, and he's already asked for a separation once, and he's not liking the parts of his wife that aren't what she molded herself to be to be with him, so the councilor is thinking....maybe she needs to find someone who loves ALL of her.

Edited for spelling.
 
it's not that he doesn't like who she is as a whole.. she never gave him the opportunity to know all of her. Seems kind of unfair, you know? and i agree that she should have dated more...
 
Forte - Agreed, that is unfair of her.
 
Hmmm… I am not sure about the counselor’s recommendation. I see where the counselor is going, but it really doesn’t seem like a move to work on the marriage. It seems like the counselor wants her to date around to make sure that her husband is really the one she wants, which can be good for her. Just not sure if it’s good for the marriage. I guess since the counselor is her primary; her well-being is the counselor’s main concern. The situation just seems a bit unfair.

I would just tell her that you are not comfortable giving her dating advice in the situation.
 
Forte- I'm sorry about your friend's situation. I don't agree with the counselor in suggesting they see other people, I think you do have to work on marriage TOGETHER (open communications) not separated and apart... goodness. Marriage is such a huge committment in itself and to add other people into the mix, that could be potential disaster.

What if something happens on these dates, oh I don't know that she does something and later regrets it, possibly hurting her marriage even more.

I also wouldn't want to be the guy who is going on these dates with your friend knowing she is "only" separated, and not "actually divorced" I'd feel adultrous in a sense, but I'm old fashioned when it comes to the sanctity of marriage.
 
Not a counselor but it appears to me that throwing more people into the already confusing situation seems counter-productive.
Must be happy with self first before you can be happily fulfilled in a relationship (IMO).
 
she's only been seeing this particular counselor for two weeks. Her primary one was in another state. Their trial period is set for 4 months. At the end of the 4 months, she needs to give him an answer on whether she's willing to take him back. She relates this to being w/ a recovering addict.. lifetime of setbacks, but eventually he will be better. Now she only needs to decide if she wants to put up with it. it's so sad. :(

I really believe she needs to fix herself first. One's self-esteem should not be tied to whether random guys check/ask her out.
 
Forte-sometimes people are afraid to leave their partner because they believe that partner is all they can get in life. You say your friend has self esteem issues. I would imagine that she feels this way.

I'm not a counselor either but I see that advice as this: if your friend is pushed into dating other people, she may find the esteem boost she needs to leave her husband. I understand that people would prefer to see marriages work out but honestly your friend and her husband bring out the worst in each other. Your partner should make you a better you. Maybe the counselor wants them both to have an opportunity to find people that bring out the best of their personalities. I mean in your honest opinion, is this marriage worth saving?
 
No, i believe she should walk away. Clean slate, start over. but that's what i would do in a toxic relationship.

But she feels guilt. She sees that he finally realizes he needs to fix himself, has actually put in lots of effort the past few months, and wonders if she is throwing 10 years away when she still loves him.

And you're right, she asked, "what happens if i can't find better? do i stick w/ the broken one?"

my response, "you have to determine if this man is right for you, period. w/o other influences. if he's not right, walk. But you have to be happy with who you are and love yourself first. Dont depend on a man to give you affirmation in life!"
 
It's impossible to know all of the issues in this marriage, with your friend, or with her husband. This therapist might see things that you might not see or even have knowledge of, such as personality disorders, mood disorders, etc. What we also might not know is that both parties might feel that the marriage is ultimately over, but neither one wants to admit it to "the public" so they are using the therapist as a scapegoat.

Just too many variables to consider.

I really love the type of therapist that tells a couple they need to buckle down and work on their marriage because they made a commitment to one another. Sometimes, that doesn't always happen. This therapist may think that these two might need to test the waters and make a really slow yet permanent separation because they would crumble if they split quickly. The therapist might also feel that it is irresponsible to tell these two to stay together if he/she sees that the two of them would spend their entire lives in misery.

Ultimately, when a therapist gives advice, it is just that...advice. You don't have to take it. If this couple were truly committed to one another, they wouldn't have jumped on the bandwagon of separation and dating others, you know? The very thought would have disgusted them. That's my humble opinion anyway.
 
A counselors position will always be to do what is best for her primary client. Some methods seem extreme and it's sometimes hard to understand know why that is the direction to lead a person into when you're on the outside looking in. Remember, a lot is said behind closed doors that even a best friend may not be privy too.

It's apparent, from what you described, that their marriage is flawed and strained. The husband in this case has issues he has to overcome and the wife has been burdened by those issues for years. This separation may possibly be the counselors attempt at getting distance. It's really hard when your in a troubled relationship to have a healthy life, and this could be the means to that end. I have to say, I get it. The counselor wants your friend to have a real life, a full life. The counselor wants your friend to extended herself and find herself. Dating other people may possibly be the way for her to find that.

I would suggest just being there for her...support her choices and allow her to grow from the experience.
 
True, we don't know them, and too many variables.

I've had everyone tell us, including third party counselor that .....'well maybe we should go our separate way (this was about two years into our marriage, very rough rocky)' we didn't let anyone influenced us, and stuck it out, worked on our issues together.

Anyways, I agree with House Cat that its just "advice" and they have to find it in themselves what is best for them.

Do they have any kids?
 
house cat- she's only been to 3 sessions w/ this new counselor, but her husband has only seen her once! which is why it raised a lot of red flags when she flat out told my friend she needs to sleep around w/ other guys during this trial sep. :errrr: she literally said that. and my friend thought it was the greatest idea and wanted me to agree... which i didn't.

is 3 sessions enough?
 
House Cat|1293648113|2809032 said:
If this couple were truly committed to one another, they wouldn't have jumped on the bandwagon of separation and dating others, you know? The very thought would have disgusted them. That's my humble opinion anyway.

Yup. Especially if she has been seeing this therapist for a very short period and is already asking for dating advice. She doesn't seem like she wants to fix it, and why should she? From what you've written, it doesn't seem like a great marriage.

I think giving advice to a married couple with issues is tricky. I have a friend who did a trial separation. To me, their marriage was worth saving because they were really good together at one point. They just developed a bunch of issues, mainly lack of communication which they worked on and are better because of it. Then there's my cousin. Their marriage is terrible and I wish she could just have a period where she sees that's she's worth so much more.
 
No kids. she wanted kids when he didn't, and now that he wants kids, she can't. :(
 
They are easily influenced, and believe whatever a professional says is absolutely the only way.

Telling a woman who has never slept w/ anyone else to go out and sleep w/ a bunch of random men is rather serious. She's still very naive socially, and i dont want to see her hurt if she gets emotionally attached to one of these men.
 
ForteKitty said:
No kids. she wanted kids when he didn't, and now that he wants kids, she can't. :(
oh sorry :((


Forte- after reading your last couple of posts, its a bit distrubing to me now, what the counselor is suggesting and what you are now saying about your easily influenced friend. Unfortunately, being there for her might not be enough, but not sure.
 
Forte- did the therapist say go whore yourself out or go date? Because there is a HUGE difference between the two. HUGE
 
i really wanted her to get a second opinion.

i firmly believe they needs to separate, and she needs to work on herself.
 
i asked her exactly what the therapist said because i thought i misunderstood. She said the therapist said, "you have not slept with enough people, that's why you are so attached to him. He is the only one you have ever known. Go out, date others, sleep with more men. After that, you can determine if your husband is right for you."

:errrr: ahhhhhhh!
 
Well in that case, yes that is terrible and unsafe advice. I must have missed that in your beginning explanations.
 
I absolutely agree with your last post, ForteKitty. If your friend has only been with one man sexually, I dont think that is a good suggestion from the counselour to go "sleep around". I think that is extremely irresponsible of a professional counselour to suggest something like that, and if *I* were seeing that counselour, I wouldve hit the door running!

I agree with the other posters that say adding other people to a marriage that is having problems is NOT going to fix it. On the other hand, I would be so hesitant to give a friend with marriage problems advice. Simply because there is so much to every relationship that only the couple knows, and *we* usually only hear our friends perspective. To be honest from everything you wrote, it sounds like their relationship is doomed anyway, and they are both at fault. I would just try to be there for my friend, but not give too much advice, ya know? Best of luck, I know its hard watching someone you love in situations like this.
 
i'm sorry. i realized i didn't clarify how she defines "date". she's been using that term for sleeping around. :(
 
Oh my goodness..After reading the last few posts from you ForteKitty, I have to say that SHOCKS me that a counselour would say that! It disturbs me even more because I know a few people with AIDS, and its no joke. You will die from it. And also, why is it that just because we live in a somewhat sexually liberated society, that women have to sleep around to know what we want? Also, has your friend thought about the fact that maybe just maybe her husband LIKES that he is the only person she has been with? If she goes sleeping around (you didnt mention if he was a cheater), why should he want to take her back after that? I wouldnt if I was in the situation personally. If you are going to counseling to fix *yourself* how is sleeping around helping that? Im pretty sure sleeping with random people doesnt fix self esteem problems.

From what you said, it seems they both have problems to work on, BUT adding sexual partners is not going to clarify the situation for your friend, it will only make it worse, imo.
 
He's not a cheater. He likes being a homebody and doesn't really have a social life or many friends, but she never expressed an issue with it. Now she wants to travel the world and he's all confused.

He has trust issues, but no clinical diagnosis on any personality or mood disorders. She volunteered that info because i was a psych major and she wants me do "diagnose" him.. i told her i'm not qualified to do that! Seeing that he has trust issues already... how is he going to be okay with his wife sleeping around?
 
Number One: Stay out of their mess.

Number Two: You have to let it go because you have no control over any of their issues.

Disturbed, or not, let them fix it or fail on their own.
 
holly- i've been nodding and listening, and i've only dispensed advice maybe a few times when she really pushed for one. i know you can push your friends away and tell them to keep their problems to themselves, but i can't. my friend is hurting, and it affects me. i'm human. when she is in pain, i hurt too.

eta: the main point of this thread is to see i'm overracting to the counselor's advice or not. i think she gave some bad advice.
 
ForteKitty|1293652302|2809099 said:
holly- i've been nodding and listening, and i've only dispensed advice maybe a few times when she really pushed for one. i know you can push your friends away and tell them to keep their problems to themselves, but i can't. my friend is hurting, and it affects me. i'm human. when she is in pain, i hurt too.

eta: the main point of this thread is to see i'm overracting to the counselor's advice or not. i think she gave some bad advice.

Forte- I agree that your friend SHOULD get a SECOND opinion, from another counselor before she does anything that could potentially harm herself.
 
I wonder if this "advice" has been misinterpreted by your friend. Like she's hearing what she WANTS to hear. She WANTS permission to experiment etc.

As far as you go w/"dating advice" --- if your friend is bound & determined to "date" (sleep around) but you know that she is socially naive -- I wonder if it might be kind & prudent to give her some BASIC SAFETY ADVICE. Don't drink from glasses that have been out of your sight EVER. Don't consume more than one or two drinks period on a date. Meet people in public places. Tell people where you are going and when you will be back. Don't tell strangers where you live. Don't sleep with strangers. Use protection. ETC ETC ETC.

Very naive people can end up in all kinds of awful, unsafe situations & not have any skills to get them out of it if things go awry. I worry for her safety more than her marriage honestly. It doesn't sound like their marriage is going to be saved at this point.
 
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