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Disturbed and want some advice

D&T|1293652972|2809114 said:
ForteKitty|1293652302|2809099 said:
holly- i've been nodding and listening, and i've only dispensed advice maybe a few times when she really pushed for one. i know you can push your friends away and tell them to keep their problems to themselves, but i can't. my friend is hurting, and it affects me. i'm human. when she is in pain, i hurt too.

eta: the main point of this thread is to see i'm overracting to the counselor's advice or not. i think she gave some bad advice.
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Forte- I agree that your friend SHOULD get a SECOND opinion, from another counselor before she does anything that could potentially harm herself.
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ITA. I'd probably say something along the lines of "I don't think the counselor gave you the best advice and I think you should get a second opinion before you seriously think about dating." And then refuse to give any other answer.

It's hard when you want to support your friend and you think she's making a huge mistake. However, I do think her eagerness to do this speaks volumes about her relationship. Honestly, I think her marriage is over and she's just excited to be told she "should" be doing what she already wants to, so I'm not sure she'd go for a second opinion, even though she really needs one.

And goodness knows Holly can defend herself, but I think that dig was unneccessary. She gave you honest, practical advice. It really is best for you to let go, and let your friend do whatever she's going to do without feeling like you have any responsibility in this situation. You don't, and honestly you can work yourself up about it (I know I would), but it's not going to make a difference. You can't make your friend do anything. Make your feelings known once if she asks, and then refuse to give any other answer. She's going to do whatever she wants to anyways.
 
She doesn't drink alcohol.. never had it. All of a sudden she wants to try "drinking" and wants us to take her out so we can get drunk. :errrr: i'm terrified at what might happen to her, so i might have to go along just to make sure she's okay.

and i did wonder if a lot of what she said was self-fufilling, so i asked her questions.. whether she questioned the counselor, how the counselor replied, any examples given, in what context... and it seems legit. her responses didn't change even when i threw some curveballs.
 
+ 20! This is unfortunate all around, Forte. Wtf kind of counselor is that? Licensed at all? Completely unprofessional, not to mention outta her mind, to recommend that to fix a marriage -- good advice if you want to break one up. Not much more sane to take that advice. After 3 sessions in 2 weeks? Oy vay.

If you wish, be there to pat your friend on the back when she needs it, but otherwise, I think you'll be sorry if you don't steer clear. If you give her dating advice you'll own the situation & it'll be very hard to draw back. I feel for you if you're fond of her, you hate to see a friend having hard times. You cannot nurse her through -- you'll just give yourself headaches trying -- she's an adult; her mistakes are hers alone to make.

--- Laurie
 
Oh dear. I'm with Deco - very worried about her safety. I would take her out if I were you - take her to a bar you know well, where you have a good rapport with the staff and know the bartenders, and let her get drunk. Be the DD, be the *ahem* c*ckblock, and make sure she gets home safely. Leave her with water and Gatorade, and let her enjoy the hangover. I wouldn't try to stop her, just be a friend and keep an eye on her the first few times while she learns her limits.

Honestly, do for her whatever you'd do for a friend going through a break up. That's essentially what this is - whether they get back together later or not, right now she's going through a break up.
 
ForteKitty|1293652302|2809099 said:
holly- i've been nodding and listening, and i've only dispensed advice maybe a few times when she really pushed for one. i know you can push your friends away and tell them to keep their problems to themselves, but i can't. my friend is hurting, and it affects me. i'm human. when she is in pain, i hurt too.

eta: the main point of this thread is to see i'm overracting to the counselor's advice or not. i think she gave some bad advice.
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Ouch.

Listen, I know Holly can defend herself, but I just wanted to speak up for a moment because I felt that your comment was a little cutting when all that was offered up was sage advice.

Other peoples marriages are very, very complicated. While we care for our friends, naturally, we cannot and should not protect them from every slip or misstep they might make...if we did, we'd be interrupting the growth process. What Holly was trying to explain is that your friend is following a path that works for her...and that's that. It's not really your place to raise an eyebrow if she's comfortable and confidant going on this journey. Her marriage isn't working for her anymore, you need to respect the space she needs to figure it out.

And seriously, in black and white here it is, if your friend was simply hurt, but otherwise happy and truly committed to making her marriage work, she would have told this counselor that seeing/sleeping with other people wasn't an option and told her to take a flying leap. But she didn't. So, clearly, something about this course of therapy is appealing to her--and that's all, as her friend, that you need to know. You cannot make someone's decisions for them, whether you agree or not. If standing by is just to hard for you, then walk away for away. But at the end of the day, your friend is grown a** woman making grown a** woman choices.
 
Your friend is jumping all over the idea of being with other men. Regardless of how easily persuaded she is, a woman who did not want to be with other men in her marriage would not consider it. Have you considered that maybe this is really what she wants, and the counsellor just put what she wanted (however crass the words) before her and her husband (who has now consented to this).
 
I would take her out if I were you - take her to a bar you know well, where you have a good rapport with the staff and know the bartenders, and let her get drunk. Be the DD, be the *ahem* c*ckblock, and make sure she gets home safely. Leave her with water and Gatorade, and let her enjoy the hangover. I wouldn't try to stop her, just be a friend and keep an eye on her the first few times while she learns her limits.
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That's a kindly way to look at it. But it's unlikely to be a one-time thing. If she's determined to do all the single scene in a big hurry, there will be requests for the next experience & the next. Saying no gets harder the more times you say yes.

If getting drunk is all she wants, have her to your house to do it where she can be safe & stay overnight. That isn't what she's after, seems to me -- it's more the whole enchilada. Remember the counselor's advice about "sleeping with enough guys?" Do you want to be involved w/that scene? Yes, it's darned dangerous for her on a number of levels -- but if she's got her mind made up to take it all in, you can't stop her.

I'd like to see that "counselor" reported to whatever org. should have licensed her. She's dangerous all by herself. It's a scary and unbalanced scene.

--- Laurie
 
JewelFreak|1293655561|2809169 said:
I would take her out if I were you - take her to a bar you know well, where you have a good rapport with the staff and know the bartenders, and let her get drunk. Be the DD, be the *ahem* c*ckblock, and make sure she gets home safely. Leave her with water and Gatorade, and let her enjoy the hangover. I wouldn't try to stop her, just be a friend and keep an eye on her the first few times while she learns her limits.
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That's a kindly way to look at it. But it's unlikely to be a one-time thing. If she's determined to do all the single scene in a big hurry, there will be requests for the next experience & the next. Saying no gets harder the more times you say yes.

If getting drunk is all she wants, have her to your house to do it where she can be safe & stay overnight. That isn't what she's after, seems to me -- it's more the whole enchilada. Remember the counselor's advice about "sleeping with enough guys?" Do you want to be involved w/that scene? Yes, it's darned dangerous for her on a number of levels -- but if she's got her mind made up to take it all in, you can't stop her.

I'd like to see that "counselor" reported to whatever org. should have licensed her. She's dangerous all by herself. It's a scary and unbalanced scene.

--- Laurie
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Haha, Laurie, I was honestly only telling the OP to do what my friends did with me when my ex and I broke up a few months ago. I was bound and determined to go out, and they kind of rotated, taking turns taking me to their favourite places where they knew everybody. So I got in with the main groups at 2 bars, and the bartenders and bouncers recognize me. They are protective of their regulars (like most places I've been to), and getting in good with the bouncers and bartenders generally means more people know you and what's normal for you, and can tell if something weird is going on.

Honestly, if she's going to make dumb choices, she's going to make dumb choices. Set your own personal limits and stick to them.
 
I wish this was posted over in LIW honestly. THIS is the type of situation that can happen when people marry too young ... marry the first person they date ... EVENTUALLY they rebel. They feel cheated of their oat-sewing days. They think what they see in the rom-com/ romance/ Sex In The City-esque movies is "real life" and they've missed out.

I've also heard of this "acting out" when people lose a lot of weight ... or finally get that plastic surgery they wanted .... or lots of other triggers.

Really doubt you'll be able to stop whatever she wants to do. But I can see how it will be hard for you to watch her stumble & fall.
 
Holly, i'm sorry if it seemed like a dig, i honestly didn't mean it as a dig. I apologize. I just meant that you are more firm in your stance than i am.. i can't just let her fall to pieces and not care because i'll be the one picking it up in the end. As selfish as it may sounds, i'm looking out for myself too. she'll be ringing my doorbell at 3am if something happens. :(
 
Yes, she married too young (mentally). yes, she didn't get to know him before they got all hot and heavy and committed. Two very bad choices. They've had too many issues in the past 8 years of marriage, much of it stuff that i would NEVER put up with. If someone hurts me, they're gone. But her... she just seems so lost.

She said this to me, "i feel like someone who was just released from a cult. as if i'm seeing the world for the first time, and i have no idea what to do, how to interact with people, and how to have a conversation with normal people." :blackeye:
 
FK,

You are being a good friend, heck a great friend. I don't know what kind of counselor would suggest she go out and date while taking a time out from her marriage. She needs to work on herself first and foremeost. Sounds like she's wanting to sow her wild oats, that she never had the chance to do..

I feel bad for you because I know in the end, it's really her, and there isn't a dang thing you can do about it..

I was in the same position a few years ago, with a friend who's husband cheated on her, and was left to help her pick up the pieces.

Try as you might, you really can only do so much...

Big hugs, I have missed seeing you here.

Hope besides this matter, that all is well with YOU... :wavey:
 
Hi Kaleigh! I hope you're doing well. I've been good. I thank my lucky stars every day that i haven't been tested as some of my friends have. Also a bit bored because the week between christmas and new years is usually pretty uneventful, that's why i've been posting more here. I usually just read when i'm at work. :)
 
While I, personally think she needs to get a second opinion, it seems as though your friend heard exactly what she wanted or needed to hear. It sounds as though she isn't ready to be married for the rest of her life.

WE know that the single life isn't fabulous. WE know being drunk and driving the porcelain bus isn't any fun. But SHE doesn't. She isn't going to know any of this until she lives her life. Mistakes, falling on our faces, waking up in the muck is one of the best ways to learn. Will she wake up one day and feel as though she made the biggest mistake of her life by straying from her marriage? It's possible, but I seriously doubt it.

She sounds horribly sheltered. She needs to live. I don't advocate sleeping with a bunch of men or developing a drinking problem, but she obviously feels that she needs to have more experiences in her life. This is HER life, her one life. She is allowed to mess it up and fix it as many times as she sees fit. I'm pretty certain she's intelligent enough to practice safer sex. I'm sure she's not going to become a heroin junkie either.

Maybe it's just time to be happy for your friend. She's been in an unhappy, supressive marriage/life for 8 years now and she's breaking free. She's taking the time to learn who she really wants to be. Thank GOD there are no children involved! Hopefully in a few years, she will be who she wants to be.

I am a firm believer that there are no mistakes in life. The fact is, from this experience she will become wiser and shed that naive label that she's been wearing for so long.
 
ForteKitty|1293659699|2809244 said:
Yes, she married too young (mentally). yes, she didn't get to know him before they got all hot and heavy and committed. Two very bad choices. They've had too many issues in the past 8 years of marriage, much of it stuff that i would NEVER put up with. If someone hurts me, they're gone. But her... she just seems so lost.

She said this to me, "i feel like someone who was just released from a cult. as if i'm seeing the world for the first time, and i have no idea what to do, how to interact with people, and how to have a conversation with normal people." :blackeye:
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If this is how she feels then there isn't much you can do. I would just remind her protect herself from diseases and pregnancy and then hope she doesn't destroy herself. The more she has people in her life pushing her to live a certain lifestyle, the more she's going to rebel.

It reminds me a lot of my former roommate. She lived a really sheltered life and one day went absolutely nuts. Her parents took her back home and attempted to control her actions to "fix" and "protect" her. She met a guy, moved with him to Mexico and abandoned her family. No one has heard from her in years :blackeye:
 
Thanks House Cat, i know you're right. Ironically, she went to one of the more, er... experimental universities out there. Four years in UC Berkeley and she didn't try anything! i might not have survived college, haha.
 
Yikes... the counselor said "sleep with more men". But after reading your posts, it really just sounds like your friend wants to experience the experiences that she missed. So getting the ok from her counselor to sleep around just kick started everything. I know you don't want to see her hurt, but you can only do so much. She is an adult. Take her to a lounge and hang out.

Well, CAL isn't known for a party school. :bigsmile: I do know a few people who never partied there.
 
qtiekiki, haha i know it's not a party school. i was joking because you can get so much stuff just walking down shattuck (sp?)& telegraph. we're going to bigfoot lodge next weekend.
 
Perhaps there are also some things the counselor knows that you don't. Maybe there's been physical/emotional/sexual abuse in the relationship. Maybe she WANTS them 2500 miles apart. And is just helping them both get adjusted to the idea that they would both survive if apart. (If they've been unhealthily emeshed or something).

Sometimes its more important to concentrate on keeping both individuals alive & healthy -- than in keeping them MARRIED. Wondering if this could be the case here.
 
this is going to be TMI...

They hardly have sex. He has no sex drive because of his weight and health issues. There was emotional blackmail in the sense of him guilting her into taking him back last time, but not directly. A lot of passive aggressiveness from both sides. On his end, a lot of it has to do with his own personal demons. He apparently withdrawls. She sees it as a silent attack from him. LIke i said, they both have really serious personal issues.

The main reason he's moving back is because his family network is there, and he really wants to work w/ the old counselor there. He brought it up, and the new counselor agreed it's a good idea.
 
I dont see how sleeping around (I mean dating) is suppose to help her already low self-esteem. She could probably get
lots of guys to sleep with her but in the end if nothing meaningful came out of it I would think it would lower her
self-esteem (just my opinion).
 
decodelighted|1293663052|2809293 said:
Sometimes its more important to concentrate on keeping both individuals alive & healthy -- than in keeping them MARRIED. Wondering if this could be the case here.
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absolutely agree, and i hope it's an unorthadox method as opposed to bad advice.
 
I wouldn't give a counselor (this is just me personally) that kind of control over my life. If the counselor told me it was ok/ or I should date other people then it would be ok? I wouldn't think so, because I think this is a decision the individual has to decide. My reaction to the advice mentioned in your opening post would be the same as yours.
 
Her marriage sounds like it's terrible and she's just now waking up and realizing that. Honestly, it seems like your friend should leave her husband and go out and date other men. If that leads to her actually getting to have sex since her husband doesn't put out, so be it!

I think you should support her by doing what princesss said-take her out and about with a group of friends, keep an eye on her while she has a few drinks, etc. At least that's what I'd do if I were in your shoes. She most likely won't go totally bonkers and start slutting it up.
 
A counselors job is NOT to give advice but to help guide and empower clients to make their own decisions. Obviously we don't know what the counselor or your friend said in the sessions. 3 sessions does seem short to make such rash decisions but again, without knowing all the details it is difficult to know if what the counselor said, if they really did say that, was appropriate or not. Both have contributed to their bad marriage. Rarely is anyone blameless.

I know you are worried for your friend. You feel she may be on the verge of making some mistakes, but as an adult she has the right to live her life however she feels fit. If she wants to stay in her marriage, that is her business. If she wants to separate and see other people, that is also her business. If she wants you to do something that makes you uncomfortable, like take her out drinking, you can say no.
 
She just asked if i would introduce her to my single male friends... uh.. NO!!! :errrr:
 
ForteKitty|1293665185|2809335 said:
She just asked if i would introduce her to my single male friends... uh.. NO!!! :errrr:
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Remember, no is a complete sentence.
 
And i certainly used it!!! given my "...." via chat, she responded w/ "guess that's not a good idea, huh? what respectable guy would date a still-married woman?"
 
Btw, thank you to everyone in this thread!! I can't discuss this w/ anyone in person, for obvious reasons, and really thought that maybe my reaction towards her new counselor was unwarranted.

I do not want to meddle in her business, and will continue to offer support, nothing more. If she wants to pray to the porcelain god, so be it. i'll be there to hold her hair up.
 
ForteKitty|1293665967|2809349 said:
I do not want to meddle in her business, and will continue to offer support, nothing more. If she wants to pray to the porcelain god, so be it. i'll be there to hold her hair up.
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That's the spirit! What the counselor said or didn't say is irrelevant. It seems very clear to me that your friend wants TO LIVE after feeling like she's been dying for a long time. Her interpretation of living is to do all the things she didn't do in her youth - drink, date around, be somewhat silly and stupid.

If your friend had come away from a 10 year relationship at age 27, with no children - you wouldn't think twice about bringing her out, or even introducing her to your friends. Her husband is "allowing" this behaviour; she definitely wants to do it... and trying to cage a bird who's tasting freedom and blue skies for the first time, especially one who can get out of the cage on her own, is just not going to work. She's a grown woman. Do what you can to help and support her to your limits and comfort - and let her get out there. It's her life and her marriage.
 
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