Disturbed and want some advice

[ForteKitty]

I do not want to meddle in her business, and will continue to offer support, nothing more. If she wants to pray to the porcelain god, so be it. i'll be there to hold her hair up.

If your friend had come away from a 10 year relationship at age 27, with no children - you wouldn't think twice about bringing her out, or even introducing her to your friends.

haha, oh no, we're not that old!!! we're 31. I'm not gonna interfere w/ her meeting other men, but i wouldn't introduce a still-married woman to my friends tho. I'd wait till she was fully divorced.

so a girlfriend and i took her to dinner the other night, and she asked me to teach her how to pour beer. then she laughed at herself because she realized how dumb it sounded!

 

[JewelFreak]

You have your head on straight, FK. Good girl! Sounds like you will be a great support to her -- enough support, not too much. Very right not to introduce her to your single friends at this point. Maybe she'll have some experiences & learn her own limits -- that is how it's supposed to work.

I always felt sorry for P. Diana for the same reason -- getting married at 18 she didn't have a chance to date & learn & make the mistakes we all make. (I am SO GRATEFUL nobody had videocams or cell phone/cameras when I was doing all that!!!!!! Because I did p.l.e.n.t.y. of it.) Poor Diana had to do it in public after her divorce. Your friend too, although not in the Daily Mail, I presume. She's lucky to have you.

--- Laurie

 

[lliang_chi]

FK, I think you're doing a good thing about supporting your friend by taking her out etc. Girls Nights sounds exactly what she needs to build herself up. I think usually feel more "myself" when I'm hanging with the gals, then when there's any penises /guys involved. NYE is around the corner. I'd keep an eye on her booze-wise though...

 

[ForteKitty]

Thanks JF and LC!!

I do have a question for you ladies and gents...


We've been friends since 1994, and she was never socially awkward. We grew up in a large suburb, and participated in lots of extracurricular activities. She graduated college, then moved to another state to pursue her masters in 2001. That's when she met her husband and became socially isolated (by choice).

Now, she has a lot of social issues. She admits that she really doesn't know how to interact with people, and has trouble understanding things people say. We noticed that too, since we often have to explain things multiple times in order for her to understand. It's not an intellectual issue, she just has trouble relating to a lot of things, so we need to use creative ways of explaining things and use a lot of analogies.

For example:

i posted that i "need to start working out because snowboarding + my flabby self = sore everything".
She responded, "but why? please explain"
me,: "because we use a lot of muscles snowboarding/falling down a mtn, so my mushy muscles need to be stronger so i wont be sore"
her: "i still dont get it, what does muscles have to do with anything?"
me: "if you try to hike half dome right now, your legs can't handle it because the muscles are too weak, so you need to build it up first. right? same thing w/ snowboarding. you use a lot of muscles when you carve and move, and when you fall, you use your arms/core muscles to get up"
her: "i still dont understand what muscles have to do with snowboarding, dont you just glide down like a slide?"
me: "...."

another time:
me: "it's going to rain on your way back home, dont forget to check road conditions!" (it's her first time driving up that way and she'll be by herself)
her: "it's not raining till monday"
me: "yes, but you're coming back on monday"
her: "but i'm driving there on thursday"
me: "okay, how long are you staying?"
her: "till monday"
me: "right, so you'll be on the road on monday, right? it'll be raining, so check road conditions. the grapevine sometimes floods or gets icy so they shut down the 5"
her: "oh no, but i'm driving back monday!!"



She is an educator at the University level, so she deals w/ people on a daily basis. That's why it's so puzzling to me. I'm not sure how this can happen? She hasn't been away that long, and it's not like she's boarded up in a cave. She lived in a city and taught University students!

Could it be that she's overanalyzing everything? not listening? i refuse to believe that our brains can change SO MUCH in 10 years. Can it? I"m baffled.

 

[chemgirl]

Thanks JF and LC!!

I do have a question for you ladies and gents...


We've been friends since 1994, and she was never socially awkward. We grew up in a large suburb, and participated in lots of extracurricular activities. She graduated college, then moved to another state to pursue her masters in 2001. That's when she met her husband and became socially isolated (by choice).

Now, she has a lot of social issues. She admits that she really doesn't know how to interact with people, and has trouble understanding things people say. We noticed that too, since we often have to explain things multiple times in order for her to understand. It's not an intellectual issue, she just has trouble relating to a lot of things, so we need to use creative ways of explaining things and use a lot of analogies.

For example:

i posted that i "need to start working out because snowboarding + my flabby self = sore everything".
She responded, "but why? please explain"
me,: "because we use a lot of muscles snowboarding/falling down a mtn, so my mushy muscles need to be stronger so i wont be sore"
her: "i still dont get it, what does muscles have to do with anything?"
me: "if you try to hike half dome right now, your legs can't handle it because the muscles are too weak, so you need to build it up first. right? same thing w/ snowboarding. you use a lot of muscles when you carve and move, and when you fall, you use your arms/core muscles to get up"
her: "i still dont understand what muscles have to do with snowboarding, dont you just glide down like a slide?"
me: "...."

another time:
me: "it's going to rain on your way back home, dont forget to check road conditions!" (it's her first time driving up that way and she'll be by herself)
her: "it's not raining till monday"
me: "yes, but you're coming back on monday"
her: "but i'm driving there on thursday"
me: "okay, how long are you staying?"
her: "till monday"
me: "right, so you'll be on the road on monday, right? it'll be raining, so check road conditions. the grapevine sometimes floods or gets icy so they shut down the 5"
her: "oh no, but i'm driving back monday!!"



She is an educator at the University level, so she deals w/ people on a daily basis. That's why it's so puzzling to me. I'm not sure how this can happen? She hasn't been away that long, and it's not like she's boarded up in a cave. She lived in a city and taught University students!

Could it be that she's overanalyzing everything? not listening? i refuse to believe that our brains can change SO MUCH in 10 years. Can it? I"m baffled.

A similar thing happened to my mom after she retired. It got so bad that my dad had her go and see a neurologist. Everything came back normal. We think she's just become isolated and introspective. So she forms her own conclusions without really listening to what we're saying. She is still social with her small group of friends and family, but she doesn't interact much outside of her circle. She does go shopping and can interact normally when its just a matter of making smalltalk. Its super frustrating to deal with her one on one though because I end up explaining everything several times so she "gets" it. She is a well educated and intelligent person and this was never a problem until she retired.

 

[ForteKitty]

chemgirl, that must be so frustrating. I hope i'm not prying, but does she realize what's going on?

 

[iota15]

Thanks JF and LC!!

I do have a question for you ladies and gents...


We've been friends since 1994, and she was never socially awkward. We grew up in a large suburb, and participated in lots of extracurricular activities. She graduated college, then moved to another state to pursue her masters in 2001. That's when she met her husband and became socially isolated (by choice).

Now, she has a lot of social issues. She admits that she really doesn't know how to interact with people, and has trouble understanding things people say. We noticed that too, since we often have to explain things multiple times in order for her to understand. It's not an intellectual issue, she just has trouble relating to a lot of things, so we need to use creative ways of explaining things and use a lot of analogies.

For example:

i posted that i "need to start working out because snowboarding + my flabby self = sore everything".
She responded, "but why? please explain"
me,: "because we use a lot of muscles snowboarding/falling down a mtn, so my mushy muscles need to be stronger so i wont be sore"
her: "i still dont get it, what does muscles have to do with anything?"
me: "if you try to hike half dome right now, your legs can't handle it because the muscles are too weak, so you need to build it up first. right? same thing w/ snowboarding. you use a lot of muscles when you carve and move, and when you fall, you use your arms/core muscles to get up"
her: "i still dont understand what muscles have to do with snowboarding, dont you just glide down like a slide?"
me: "...."

another time:
me: "it's going to rain on your way back home, dont forget to check road conditions!" (it's her first time driving up that way and she'll be by herself)
her: "it's not raining till monday"
me: "yes, but you're coming back on monday"
her: "but i'm driving there on thursday"
me: "okay, how long are you staying?"
her: "till monday"
me: "right, so you'll be on the road on monday, right? it'll be raining, so check road conditions. the grapevine sometimes floods or gets icy so they shut down the 5"
her: "oh no, but i'm driving back monday!!"



She is an educator at the University level, so she deals w/ people on a daily basis. That's why it's so puzzling to me. I'm not sure how this can happen? She hasn't been away that long, and it's not like she's boarded up in a cave. She lived in a city and taught University students!

Could it be that she's overanalyzing everything? not listening? i refuse to believe that our brains can change SO MUCH in 10 years. Can it? I"m baffled.

Maybe another question for PS'ers is whether there is a polite way to suggest seeing a neurologist. She already has a psychologist/counselor to diagnose any potential psych elements/issues. It's entirely possible that maybe she's just not really listening anymore - or has just learned to tune people out after her interactions with her husband. BUT as a whole, if this is very different from the way she was, I would say this is not normal.... but, maybe she was always like this - it just wasn't as apparent when you were all still in college or high school.

 

[chemgirl]

chemgirl, that must be so frustrating. I hope i'm not prying, but does she realize what's going on?

She will usually make excuses and say she didn't hear an important part of what I was saying. I believe her, I think she starts thinking about what I'm saying, forms opinions, and then doesn't hear everything I'm saying. Sometimes she'll cut me off and interject with something that doesn't really make sense. She is totally functional though and doesn't have any memory problems or anything like that. So yeah...I think its just a social thing.

 

[ForteKitty]

i thought she might have just tuned out when we're chatting online, but when these conversations happen in person, i can see that she's trying really, really hard to understand. She gets really frustrated because she can't make the connections. These conversations happen a few times a week.

The latest one we had was about martinis. she didn't understand why they add "-tini" to the end of different drinks, because she thinks martinis is just one drink, and stuff like appletini and saketini doesn't make sense. (because apples and sake doesn't belong in martinis) we tried to explain that saketini is just sake replacing vodka, and appletinis- you just add the apple pucker stuff to vodka. She said, "NO! a martini is vodka, period! i dont understand why other things would add -tini to the end. it doesn't make any sense. so basically i can add -tini to anything and it'll be a martini? it's not! " we dropped it after that.

She doesn't seem to have these issues in the acedemic world, and she's been really happy w/ her teaching courses this past quarter. It's just little things that i never thought i'd have to explain... those things turn out to be the big issues.

 

[qtiekiki]

I didn't even know there's a lounge (Bigfoot Lounge) on that street, and I pass by there pretty often. But I've only been to a handful of bar/lounge/club since I moved here, when people invited us. Hope she has fun there next weekend.

Your friend sounds to be book-smart, but not street-smart. So everything has to have a straight definition, and that didn't always happen in the real world. I don't think she has neurological problems. She just sounds very naive. Maybe once she starts experiencing with more situations, it will be different.

 

[katamari]

In reading through this, I think your friend is just using the counselor. I really don't believe the counselor is telling her to do any of this; instead, I think she wants to do all of this and needs to medicalize it to feel permitted to do it. To call her on it, I think, would be non-supportive.

I am also a bit troubled that people are worried that an adult woman wants to have some drinks. Good gosh, y'all. If she is responsible about it, why not let her get drunk a few times. For real! And, I understand there is issue with her wanting to hook up with some guys if she wishes to maintain her marriage, but if she divorces, why shouldn't she be free to explore a bit (again, responsibly)? Sexual double standard much?

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Your friend sounds to be book-smart, but not street-smart. So everything has to have a straight definition, and that didn't always happen in the real world. I don't think she has neurological problems. She just sounds very naive. Maybe once she starts experiencing with more situations, it will be different.

I disagree. I would find it very hard for someone to get an advanced degree and teach without making such connections. We are talking sufixes and sore muscles! Even if she was an engineer or similar, she would have come across a similar concept in basic organic chemistry, for examples. The sore muscle example is just very baffling. I could understand if, after the first explanation, she said something like "oh, I didn't know you used so many muscles to snowboard", but she seems to not hear what was said, even though ForteKitty says she is making an effort to understand.

Has she noticed that things are harder to connect than in the past? Does she see that she changed from a social person to someone who can't relate to others (in her own words)? These changes seem very disturbing to me. She should bring this up with her therapist. If necessary, I would tell my friend about the changes I observed in her. It seems like some sort of strong defence or isolation mechanism, which makes me wonder what caused it in the years of her marriage (it may not even be anything in the marriage or the husband).

Considering all this, letting her lose to drink and date/sleep around seems almost irreponsible of her therapist and a recipe for disaster. From the snippets of conversation ForteKitty posted, she seems like a magnet for the wrong sort of person (from someone looking for a sugarmama they can manipulate, to someone seeking to exploit her). I can easily see her being manipulated into heavy drugs or dragged along into some dangerous sexual situations ("but every single woman does this!").

 

[ForteKitty]

i realized i left out a huge detail about alcohol. she tried two sips of my mai tai once and broke out in bad hives. That was her one and only experience w/ mixed drinks so i didn't even think to include that. her mother and sister are severly allergic to alcohol as well. But we've given her a little bit of beer and she seems okay...

I have nothing against her drinking, just dont want her first drunken night to be by herself. she asks "how will i know if i'm buzzed"... so i plan on being there when she drinks, only to tell her, "that dizziness? that's a buzz!" i just hope the hives was a one time thing of her allergic to cheap rum or something.

 

[ForteKitty]

Lady_Disdain, my friend was a linguistics major. I know she likes to break down language and study stuff like that, so i wonder if she's over-analyzing it to the point where she misses the connection?

In response to your question, she does notice when she's having problems, and have voiced it. She just doesn't know how to fix it. She has a hard time w/ groups, and is better one on one. Sometimes w/ strangers, she will ask questions that i feel is a little uncomfortable. Like holding a full conversation w/ a waitress when it's obvious the lady needs to go and she's fiddling w/ her hands.

Another thing i noticed is that she's become very sensitive to sounds and is a lot more skittish than she was in high school. She was a percussionist so she was used to loud sounds in HS, but right now if someone drops a book about 10 feet away, she will literally jump. I attributed it to her living environment the past 10 years as hawaii is very peaceful compared to LA, but now i'm wondering if something is causing that sensitivity.


qtiekiki- bigfoot lodge is in the silverlake district in LA, i think. (duh, i mushed up that sentence w/ the berkeley stuff) I haven't been there, but it looks kinda fun.