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Do not buy Russian diamonds

WillyDiamond

WillyDiamond

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Messages
1,533
Sure, a diamond that comes from the mines of Russia pass thru many hands on the way to a diamond dealer.
It might go to India, Belgium or Israel for finishing and polishing, but dealers know the origin of a diamond.

In light of what is going on in the Ukraine right now with the brutality of the Russians we should buy nothing from them.
Let them eat their diamonds, I will provide the salt and pepper.

This is also a challenge to our Price Scope dealers as well: You know the origin of a diamond, you can buy them from other sources.

You might say that what does not buying one Russian diamond do to help things? There is a famous expression by Edmund Burke….”Nobody made a greater mistake than he did nothing because he could only do a little”.
 
WillyDiamond said:
Sure, a diamond that comes from the mines of Russia pass thru many hands on the way to a diamond dealer.
It might go to India, Belgium or Israel for finishing and polishing, but dealers know the origin of a diamond.

In light of what is going on in the Ukraine right now with the brutality of the Russians we should buy nothing from them.
Let them eat their diamonds, I will provide the salt and pepper.

This is also a challenge to our Price Scope dealers as well: You know the origin of a diamond, you can buy them from other sources.

You might say that what does not buying one Russian diamond do to help things? There is a famous expression by Edmund Burke….”Nobody made a greater mistake than he did nothing because he could only do a little”.
Click to expand...

I consider the people who mine diamonds in Russia to not be Russian. They do too.
https://www.pricescope.com/blog/to-russia-with-love
They are some of the poorest people in Russia and only recently has anyone there cared much about them:
1646608060925.png
 
Garry, what are you talking about? The article in your post says nothing about these people not considering themselves Russians. In fact the article says these people (Yakuts) are paid double average Russian salaries with housing benefits and Alrosa is pumping money into their community for improved quality of living.

Bottom line, I don’t want any innocent Russian citizens to take the brunt of this, but at the same time the Ukrainians are suffering terribly.
 
WillyDiamond said:
Garry, what are you talking about? The article in your post says nothing about these people not considering themselves Russians. In fact the article says these people (Yakuts) are paid double average Russian salaries with housing benefits and Alrosa is pumping money into their community for improved quality of living.

Bottom line, I don’t want any innocent Russian citizens to take the brunt of this, but at the same time the Ukrainians are suffering terribly.
Click to expand...
Those people in the far north and the west have been the poorest people in Russia for decades. ALROSA have only recently decided to be good corporate citizens because they understand Tiffany et al will never buy their diamonds if they did'nt change the way they treat these people.
Of course I deplore Russia's war on Ukraine (which is so they can get their resources and abundant agricultural output).
But I do not see how stopping poor mining communities from surviving is going to hurt Putin and his cronies. But I will not be buyng any already cut and polished diamonds from Russia!
Interesting that the US gov has not banned diamonds rough or polished from Russia?
 
Good for you Garry for not buying Russian diamonds! Perhaps you can persuade your fellow Trade PSers to come onto this forum and tell us where they stand?

My post has been here for 2 days now, you are the first….well done!
 
Garry H (Cut Nut) said:
Those people in the far north and the west have been the poorest people in Russia for decades. ALROSA have only recently decided to be good corporate citizens because they understand Tiffany et al will never buy their diamonds if they did'nt change the way they treat these people.
Of course I deplore Russia's war on Ukraine (which is so they can get their resources and abundant agricultural output).
But I do not see how stopping poor mining communities from surviving is going to hurt Putin and his cronies. But I will not be buyng any already cut and polished diamonds from Russia!
Interesting that the US gov has not banned diamonds rough or polished from Russia?
Click to expand...

The article is a pure Russian propaganda. I tried to find photos of towns and villages where those who dig rough live. Indeed, the poorest among all Russian citizens. Looks like Russians censored everything and nothing accusing them of exploiting slaves is available. But imagine people living without proper utilities and accommodations, running water and sanitizing. Liquid sh.. and urine frozen for years right on the streets. I do intend to work hard and find the old archives; they were still available back in 2014. Now everything seems to be cleaned and erased (not the streets but the info on the internet). No matter how many cut diamonds or how much rough you buy from Russia, those people will remain in the same living/working environment.
 
You have to understand the following. Russians in Russia are ethnic Russians, the mix of Slavic and Mongolian genes mostly. People who dig rough are Russian Federation citizens, but ethnically they are not Russians. I would say they are Yakuts from Russia.
 
Musia said:
You have to understand the following. Russians in Russia are ethnic Russians, the mix of Slavic and Mongolian genes mostly. People who dig rough are Russian Federation citizens, but ethnically they are not Russians. I would say they are Yakuts from Russia.
Click to expand...

Said better than I could, thanks Musia.
My friend Ewen Tyler (Argyle, Ellendale and Merlin diamond mine discoveries - more diamonds found than any living human) was at Mirny and Mir mine 2-3 decades ago and people were living (surviving) in timber huts with little heating.
Anyway Musia you can search for Mirny and Mir on Google Maps and also do a run around town in street view. It is not all that bad close to the mine - but further away it gets pretty basic.
https://www.google.com/maps/@62.534...4!1sWR-V2OoSTjIRVwNzNCk9AA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
1646628997887.png


1646629160368.png
 
WillyDiamond said:
Good for you Garry for not buying Russian diamonds! Perhaps you can persuade your fellow Trade PSers to come onto this forum and tell us where they stand?

My post has been here for 2 days now, you are the first….well done!
Click to expand...

From my perspective…. It’s just not possible (and never has been ) to accurately determine the source of the diamonds we are offered at the wholesale level.
I don’t know of any Russian companies selling polished diamonds in NY.
The point is : I know of no way to check.
If there was a way to effectively take a stand, personally, I would.
 
Rockdiamond said:
From my perspective…. It’s just not possible (and never has been ) to accurately determine the source of the diamonds we are offered at the wholesale level.
I don’t know of any Russian companies selling polished diamonds in NY.
The point is : I know of no way to check.
If there was a way to effectively take a stand, personally, I would.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you never thought of asking. I would be surprised if you cannot find the origin of a diamond. When I bought my wife’s ER in 2006, the vendor told me the stone was mined in Canada.
 
WillyDiamond said:
Perhaps you never thought of asking. I would be surprised if you cannot find the origin of a diamond. When I bought my wife’s ER in 2006, the vendor told me the stone was mined in Canada.
Click to expand...

CanadaMark diamonds are much, much different than Kimberly Process in regards to origin, from what I understand. I am open to being corrected on this by those in the trade.
 
WillyDiamond said:
Perhaps you never thought of asking
Click to expand...

Among the millions of things I've considered in my life...this is definitely one of them.
But Deja, as usual, has hit the nail on the head.
Diamonds mined in Canada are the exception to this rule. That was part of the sales strategy.
The only other time I can recall people bragging about where the diamonds came from is the legendary "Zimmi" mine in South Africa....renowned for the most vivid vivid yellow diamonds..

Thinking deeper...back in "the day" ( the 1980's and early '90's) dealers would brag about "Russian Goods"
They were, unquestionably, at the time, the finest made diamonds in the world....but that has changed, and long before this horrific invasion.
The overall quality of cut ( worldwide) has risen so far above where it was that I don't recall the last time someone bragged about "Russian Make"


ETA...my own personal view is that my industry is rife with sellers making claims to bolster what they are offering- or insult what they are not offering. Claims that Lab Grown Diamonds are ecologically superior to Earth mined diamonds, for example.
SO- I would be wary, and expect - some slimeball to start bragging how his diamonds are not Russian.....
 
Alrosa is owned 30% by the Russian government so it is true that buying Russian diamonds indirectly helps finance their aggression.

The problem is currently self-correcting as far as we can tell right now. That is, many of the suppliers who have traditionally been buying from Alrosa are not able to do business because of the sanctions and associated obstacles. These firms are already in the process of establishing alternative supply, simply from a business survival perspective. However, this may change.

For small companies, country of origin has always been difficult if not impossible to establish as rough material is commonly mixed from various sources to make assortments of different qualities and sizes.

The best we can do at this stage is to state our intention to totally avoid selling Russian diamonds sourced subsequent to the invasion. We are in active discussion with our suppliers and soliciting similar assurances from them.

It is a fluid situation that we are deeply concerned about and paying close attention to.
 
What about antique, heirloom, second hand ones with provenance not so clear? I’d love to support the Ukrainian by condemning mining operations that are basically state-owned.

Honestly, I don’t think De Beer should score particularly high o the ESG front either with its inventory control and market oligopoly.

Maybe this a good marketing strategy for LMD to balance on the quality, price, and conscience.
 
Just my 2 cents, but unless your digging it, cutting it and polishing it yourself you most likely don't know where it comes from.
 
There are a few of the larger Indian firms now identifying country of origin or company supplying their diamonds.
Many larger stones have this detail but many wholesalers who buy and distribute would not have the tracking facility built in to their data bases as yet.
 
Some tit for tat going on - this is todays Rapaport news flash and below the link to the middle story:
1646686970998.png

Diamonds.net - Alrosa Sales Continue via Non-Dollar Payments

RAPAPORT... Alrosa clients have continued to buy rough from the miner by sending payment in currencies other than dollars following a range of sanctions on Russia by Western governments. While punitive measures by the US and other powers don’t ban dollar transactions with Alrosa, the...
www.diamonds.net
 
Garry H (Cut Nut) said:
There are a few of the larger Indian firms now identifying country of origin or company supplying their diamonds.
Click to expand...

That's a good step. It's clear to me that it would be possible to keep track of larger stones- and has been possible for a while.
I find that many of the firms nowadays are just interested in selling....regardless.
I trust many dealers to sit in my office- aware that they would never steal a diamond off my desk.
But if the question is " Can you trust everything they say" the answer is no in the vast majority of cases.

Side note- I notice massive changes in my industry. When I came up, it was possible to start at a low-wage job, and work your way up to a decent living wage, pension, health insurance, etc.
Not any more.
The vast majority of salesman for the larger firms ( which today, are basically ALL Indian firms) are low paid workers- not necessarily trained in diamonds. I can't blame these guys and gals ( mostly it's guys) for using any means necessary to sell ( including lying) because they're really eeking out a living.
There's a level of honor and trust which seems to be less prevalent today as compared to 20 years back ( jeez I sound old "Get off my lawn you noisy kids!!)
The bottom line to this diatribe is that we need a trusted industry standard to truly give accurate, trustworthy geographical origin info. Not just a guy swearing "It was mined in Timbucktoo!!"
 
Here's a question for all of you in this thread about Russian Diamonds:
What about the speculation that Debeers paid Russia to keep it's plentiful diamond rough vaulted, because if brought to market it would devalue the current market prices for diamonds? Myth or fact?
 
Diamond Best Friend said:
Here's a question for all of you in this thread about Russian Diamonds:
What about the speculation that Debeers paid Russia to keep it's plentiful diamond rough vaulted, because if brought to market it would devalue the current market prices for diamonds? Myth or fact?
Click to expand...

Pure ancient history I am afraid. Journalistic misinterpretations of how De Beers did business up until 2001 and the very bad consequences it had for them after that.
ALROSA was a public company anyone in the world could have bought shares in until last week. It is a third owned by the Russian gov who I am sure control it tightly. But to say that De Beers would collude with them is to call out a lot of respected people including the highest integrity government in Africa - Botswana - who own a decent share of De Beers.
The Russian gov has a small store of diamonds that is publically acknowledged and from time to time lets ALROSA access some when the market is hot.
Do some googling ;)2
 
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Garry H (Cut Nut) said:
The Russian gov has a small store of diamonds that is publically acknowledged and from time to time lets ALROSA access some when the market is hot.
Do some googling ;)2
Click to expand...
They also bought some more in the 2008 crash time frame then released them for sale when the market recovered.
 
Thanks for posting @Garry H (Cut Nut) .

Another interesting take out is the economic impact on India. "Including the indirect workers and their families, there could be a potential impact on the livelihood of 2-3 million people."

The author notes that there have been some exceptions made to the sanctions for other industries. So pressure might build on the Indian government on this issue, especially, as the author notes, moving into an Indian election cycle.
 
Hi,

I don't think India has agreed to sanctions against Russia. India was a holdout.

Annette
 
Texas Leaguer said:
Thanks for posting @Garry H (Cut Nut) .

Another interesting take out is the economic impact on India. "Including the indirect workers and their families, there could be a potential impact on the livelihood of 2-3 million people."

The author notes that there have been some exceptions made to the sanctions for other industries. So pressure might build on the Indian government on this issue, especially, as the author notes, moving into an Indian election cycle.
Click to expand...

India is a hold out as they have had consistently good relationship with Russia where as US and a lot of western nations have been judgemental of India.
The more interesting example is Russian oil and gas is still being purchased by European NATO members. So duplicitous.
The little guys always get the worst deal.
 
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