Do you drink milk? Take 2

[Mara]

i remember reading something about humans being the only mammal to drink another species milk...i thought it was pretty interesting and made really good points. i also agree that in the ''old days'' milk was a great way to get fat and protein and it was cheap and effective at it''s job. but now as someone else pointed out, americans and pretty much everyone gets their fat, calories, protein, from other types of things, and calcium as well (supplements or vitamins are huge too) and milk is largely unnecessary from a nutrition standpoint. but so many of us were raised with it, aka drink your milk, it will make your bones grow nice and strong...that''s still how kids are being raised for the most part.

i figure everyone can do whatever they want, whatever makes them feel good, what they like. in terms of RT and monnie...i felt like monarch was really being honest in asking, hey why do people do this? isn''t it kind of odd? and yes when you scrutinize it...it might seem odd nowadays...but i don''t think she was denouncing anyone who did choose to drink or love milk.

in any case, random milk Q...but does anyone else get that weird thick feeling on their tongue and throat (almost like the milk left something mucous-y feelingb behind which sounds gross!) after they drink a big glass of milk ? someone mentioned drinking a huge cold glass of milk after a run (which is great protein for your muscles by the way!!) and that is immediately what i thought, whenever i remember drinking big glasses of milk previously (LOVE chocolate milk by the way) i always get that feeling...which grosses me out. hehee.

 

[rainbowtrout]

Date: 8/11/2007 5:42:11 PM
Author: rainbowtrout


ETA: Monarch, I am sorry if it feels like I am picking specifically on you. I am not, it is not just your one post--it is many things in the vegan literature I have read that sound very similar to what you said, plus things my family have said, etc.


Such as:

http://www.tryveg.com/cfi/toc/?v=03milk

"Yet humans are the only animals who drink another species' mother's milk. Indeed, just as dogs' milk is intended for puppies, rats' milk for baby rats, and humans' milk for human infants, cows' milk is for calves."




or any number of other sites....


Mara, I don't think she was "denouncing" anyone. As I said in the post I just quoted, it is the chain of reasoning leading to it, and the widespread nature of almost that exact statement, that bugs me. The idea of it being "wierd" is followed by or used to justify the idea that it is "wrong," like homosexuality, for example, and that particular chain of logic is just...wrong. I'm sorry, but it frustrates me.

 

[Mara]

RT i think that 'chain of reasoning' is actually pretty interesting. i know that you have more history with this kind of statement or issue than just what was said here, but i have no real history at all...none of my family is vegetarian, vegan, i think i know maybe 2 vegetarians out of everyone etc so i don't really have much experience nor any real cause to get irritated or annoyed at what others think about what they choose to eat or drink...it's a personal decision...but i think that the whole 'consider that humans drink cows milk' is just an interesting point to make.

 

[rainbowtrout]

Date: 8/11/2007 6:27:27 PM
Author: Mara
RT i think that 'chain of reasoning' is actually pretty interesting. i know that you have more history with this kind of statement or issue than just what was said here, but i have no real history at all...none of my family is vegetarian, vegan, i think i know maybe 2 vegetarians out of everyone etc so i don't really have much experience nor any real cause to get irritated or annoyed at what others think about what they choose to eat or drink...it's a personal decision...but i think that the whole 'consider that humans drink cows milk' is just an interesting point to make.

Yeeeeeeeeeah. I see where you are coming from, I do.

Full disclosure? It's just after the millionth time your little brother makes a face and says "Ewwwwwwwww RT! Cows milk is for cows!" and then your dad says "That will make you sick" and then your stepmother suggests you try some nice rice milk, you just want to scream.

I did a lot of thinking and research and decided that while milk might not be the best choice of beverage, it isn't actually strange in the sense that we are the only species to drink it, therefore we are incorrect in that decision. Because that IS where that "chain of reasoning" leads.

Usually they followed that with something about how *insert gay slur here* weren't "natural" either...

 

[butterfly 17]

Nope, I am not a milk drinker, although if I have coffee, it has to have creamer or milk if there is no creamer left. I have always hated milk. My grandmother told me when I was 2, I refused to drink milk and only drank lemonade. She told me she used to force me to drink it b/c I was so skinny, which probably added to my aversion of it.

The only time I ever did drink it was when I was pregnant b/c I had so much heartburn and was throwing up all the time. It actually did leave a wierd residue/film in my throat as Mara said and made my heartburn much more manageable. I used to drink a glass or leave an iced cold glass before bed and take little sips so the heartburn would go away. Then I would lie down on 10 pillows so I was almost in an upright position.

Anyway, completely off subject, bu how do you take your eggs. I only eat them scrambled unless they are in an omelette. My husband loves them sunny side up and I think it''s so gross. I think it has something to do with my dad making us egg nog for breakfast when I was a kid.

 

[diamondsrock]

Wow, I can''t believe how many people don''t like milk! It''s one of my favorite drinks. I drink 1% every day, at least two 8 oz. glasses. I am planning on switching to skim soon I think.

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 8/11/2007 6:40:32 PM
Author: butterfly 17


Nope, I am not a milk drinker, although if I have coffee, it has to have creamer or milk if there is no creamer left. I have always hated milk. My grandmother told me when I was 2, I refused to drink milk and only drank lemonade. She told me she used to force me to drink it b/c I was so skinny, which probably added to my aversion of it.

The only time I ever did drink it was when I was pregnant b/c I had so much heartburn and was throwing up all the time. It actually did leave a wierd residue/film in my throat as Mara said and made my heartburn much more manageable. I used to drink a glass or leave an iced cold glass before bed and take little sips so the heartburn would go away. Then I would lie down on 10 pillows so I was almost in an upright position.

Anyway, completely off subject, bu how do you take your eggs. I only eat them scrambled unless they are in an omelette. My husband loves them sunny side up and I think it's so gross. I think it has something to do with my dad making us egg nog for breakfast when I was a kid.

I eat omlettes when we're on vacation but otherwise I don't eat eggs (unless their baked into cakes, used to bread chicken, etc). When I was a kid my grandfather forced me to eat them scrambled, I poured syrup over them to disguise the taste.

 

[Mara]

I really like eggs, but they have to be entirely cooked. I am not a sunny side up person at all, runny eggs or things with raw eggs in them (like shakes) pretty much gross me out (though I can eat tiramisu no problem hehee). Greg loves sunny side up eggs...and he likes scrambled too. I do overmedium or scrambled for the most part. I typically eat more egg whites than eggs, and buy the natural egg whites in containers because I hate wasting eggs (or then poor Greg gets an omelet with 3 egg yolks and 1 egg white hehe) and I don''t really LOVE the yellow part on the egg for the most part so I don''t mind doing egg whites. They take on the flavor of whatever you cook them with I find better than the yolk part. However LOVE things like deviled eggs or boiled eggs with a bit of salt...or in nicoise salads with tuna, yum.

We buy brown eggs just as often as white (it''s typically whatever looks best at whatever store I am at since we shop at TJ''s, whole foods, and regular stores) and sometimes I find those weird little brown mucousy things in the eggs as you crack them open or you find a double yolked one...stuff like that kind of makes me go ''ew'' because then it reminds me that those eggs could have been living little creatures at some point in the future, but other than that I don''t really think about it.

 

[monarch64]

RT, no worries, this is actually a pretty educational thread with many points of view thrown in. I can appreciate participating in discussions like this because I always learn something from them.

When I posted last night, it was right after Storm posted about drinking milk two minutes off the cow. I immediately remembered witnessing a calf being born when I was about 5 years old, and shortly after one of the guys from a neighboring farm who came over to help out showed me the huge metal pail of fresh milk. It did not remotely resemble the pure white whole milk I''d seen come from a glass or plastic container so far in my young life, and honestly it disgusted me. Then my evil older brother took me into the birthing stall and showed me the afterbirth sitting there in the hay and I was REALLY grossed out. The next morning I accompanied my mom and brother down to the barn to feed the cows, etc., and the a.b. was gone...I asked what had become of it and my mom told me an animal had probably come in and eaten it. More grossness, to a 5 year old little girl. SO, I think those memories for me are associated in my head with drinking milk and the whole event poured back into my head when I read Storm''s comment last night and that negativity came out in my post.

I truly don''t mean to make people feel bad about their food/drink preferences, that is just not my intent. Going back and re-reading my original post, though, I can see where some may have felt judged by me or whatever, and this is really a case of where I need to be more responsible and think before I hit the submit button, ya know? None of this changes the fact that I am not a milk drinker, but I mean no disrespect to those who do.

One last thing I have to add to this is that I think people should be aware of what they are consuming...the dairy industry has done a great job of marketing milk, but from articles i''ve read in the past all the facts are not necessarily available to the average consumer who drinks milk or eats cheese because they grew up on it and were told it builds strong bones and teeth. Like anything, if you probe a little deeper you will find there are lots of differing views on all of it.

And for the record, I LOVE PIZZA. Pizza with mozzarella cheese. I know, I know, I''m terrible.

 

[drk]

Well, I''m the opposite to Mara on the egg front. I can''t stand firm/cooked yolks, they have to be totally runny for me to eat them. I think they taste so much better and love the texture when they are runny. I generally have to stick to omelettes and scrambled eggs when traveling so that I don''t get stuck with an egg yolk that is more cooked than I like it.

As for milk, I think I drank 2% as a kid. Then 2% on cereal and skim alone. Then from high school on skim only. Until a few months ago when I read that drinking low-fat milk products can impede your fertility. So I switched to homogenized milk, and now I love the taste of it. It''s so nice and creamy. I can easily drink a glass with dinner on top of my morning cereal milk. I can''t say I''ve seen any change in my weight since I changed to homo. I''d be hard put to do without milk!

 

[asscherisme]

Blech, I hate milk. Can''t stand it. Even when pregnant I could not tolerate it. I made sure I got enough dairy for the babies I was carrying by consuming cheese or yogurt. Not a big fan of yogurt either but I made myself eat enough dairy when pregnant.

Now, I take calcium tablets so I won''t get osteoperosis because I dont'' like milk. Even as a child I can''t ever remember liking it.

My kids love it. And my husband drinks a lot of it.

 

[Pandora II]

I hate, loathe and detest milk and have done since I was tiny. They used to try and force me to drink it at school - so I opted to be milk monitor so they wouldn''t notice I forgot to give myself any.

I do use it for cooking though and put it in hot chocolate etc. I also love butter and cream.

The rest of my family are lactose intolerant and I wonder if I''m not because I never touched the stuff when I was little. Certainly I will be very wary of letting any future kids drink great glasses of it. Even if that''s just because of the mega-calorie content...

 

[lumpkin]

Date: 8/11/2007 7:12:41 PM
Author: Mara
I really like eggs, but they have to be entirely cooked. I am not a sunny side up person at all, runny eggs or things with raw eggs in them (like shakes) pretty much gross me out (though I can eat tiramisu no problem hehee). Greg loves sunny side up eggs...and he likes scrambled too. I do overmedium or scrambled for the most part. I typically eat more egg whites than eggs, and buy the natural egg whites in containers because I hate wasting eggs (or then poor Greg gets an omelet with 3 egg yolks and 1 egg white hehe) and I don't really LOVE the yellow part on the egg for the most part so I don't mind doing egg whites. They take on the flavor of whatever you cook them with I find better than the yolk part. However LOVE things like deviled eggs or boiled eggs with a bit of salt...or in nicoise salads with tuna, yum.

We buy brown eggs just as often as white (it's typically whatever looks best at whatever store I am at since we shop at TJ's, whole foods, and regular stores) and sometimes I find those weird little brown mucousy things in the eggs as you crack them open or you find a double yolked one...stuff like that kind of makes me go 'ew' because then it reminds me that those eggs could have been living little creatures at some point in the future, but other than that I don't really think about it.

OMG! Don't even get me started on runny eggs! My father used to make me eat them when I was a kid and they seriously made me ill. He quit doing it when I got sick in the family room and he had to clean it up (this was after about 10 times when I made it to the bathroom -- that night he said "Mind over matter -- if you stay out of the bathroom you won't get sick.") And I wonder why I have food issues....

My husband loves scrambled eggs. When we first met the smell of eggs was intolerable, but my MIL taught me to make them, and then I saw Martha Stewart make them. I don't use any water or milk in them and I stir them constantly until they are very dry and fluffy. Now I love them!

RT & Monarch, I was a card carrying La Leche League nazi when I had my first child. Probably because no one in my family nursed and I was put VERY MUCH on the defensive about not just giving formula (when I say no one in my family, I mean 6 aunts and all their daughters, plus the thought of seeing a boob in a baby's mouth was just obscene to my in-laws). I found every article possible about why children should not be fed formula and how human milk is for human babies, etc. Why do people get so worked up about what other people eat? When that happens people polarize about what's acceptable/appropriate, etc. I think if you want to drink milk/give your baby formula, be vegan/only human milk for babies, or any combination in between, who else's business is it really? Okay maybe there's the whole green house gas thing and you can say it's everyone's business, but then you're going to have to get on everyone's case who drinks bottled water instead of putting a freakin' filter on their faucet, or anyone who buys canned soup or spaghetti sauce, etc. It's just too complicated for me. I guess my brain doesn't have that much bandwidth, LOL! Some of my favorite people are careful, conscienscious vegans and some of my favorite people are obese and eat anything that won't eat them, so my tongue is firmly planted in my cheek.

ETA: Oh, and Mara yes! About the mucousy feeling in your throat -- totally true. Milk and eggs are mucousy foods and when I was in choir in high school (and we had a TOP notch choir director) we were told not to drink milk before any of our concerts because it would affect our voices.

 

[Odilia]

Date: 8/12/2007 6:34:07 PM
Author: lumpkin

Date: 8/11/2007 7:12:41 PM
Author: Mara
I like eggs, but they have to be entirely cooked. I am not a sunny side up person at all, runny eggs pretty much gross me out. Greg loves sunny side up eggs...

Don''t even get me started on runny eggs!

I''m with you two. My Dad loves ''em VERY runny, but I like them ''definitely cooked'', so my Dad says that I like them "vulcanized." Which isn''t really true, because I don''t like when they get so overcooked as to be rubbery either. But I always thought that was funny when he said that.

And I love raw, whole milk!

 

[chrono]

I''m not into milk. If I''m having cereal, I''d add some unsweetened soy milk. That''s it. I don''t like cheese a whole lot either. Basically, I eat very little diary products. I love eggs but they have to be well cooked. I used to eat them runny but ever since I once had an egg with was fertilized, I almost completely quit eating eggs altogether.

 

[blushingbride]

Date: 8/11/2007 1:18:23 AM
Author: monarch64
I was raised on whole milk. When I was in high school I started drinking skim and drank that through college, then when I went veg I stopped drinking milk altogether. I now drink almond milk on cereal and that''s about it.

Storm, I''ve SEEN milk two minutes off the cow and it is disgusting. I don''t know how one could find it appetizing even after it''s skimmed and poured over ice, blech. I''ve seen the whole calf come out, the afterbirth, etc., and all in all, not an appetizing experience. But I digress.

Humans are the ONLY species who drink ANOTHER species'' milk. Hmmmm...what''s wrong with that picture? Mother''s milk=mother''s milk in my book, and while I have seen instances where certain animals, say, a cat, will nurse a canine puppy, that is very, very rare. So why do humans insist on drinking cows or goat''s milk? I don''t get it. Frankly, I''m glad I stopped. Stepping off soapbox right now.

I was also raised on whole milk, but now drink 1% and fat free. I LOVE milk in general - I can drink whole, 2%, 1% or fat free - it does not matter to me! I don''t drink it very often, but I do have a small glass once in a while. I love drinking with pizza - I know strange right? My FI is the SAME way - loves it with pizza!

 

[Rock Candy]

Date: 8/11/2007 6:05:12 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 8/11/2007 5:33:28 AM

Author: IndieJones



Er... I don''t know why... but I''ve always thought that the French ultra pasteurized and processed milk that can last for months in your pantry (unopened) actually tastes really good.

Fresh milk from free range cows makes processed milk taste sour by comparison.

It is a whole different taste.

Milk from free range cows will taste different in the winter when they are fed hay than in the summer when they eat mostly grass.

Its better in the summer.

No other milk beats it :}

Storm,

You are SOOOO right! I LOVE milk and drink 2-3 glasses of skim milk per day. In our area there is an organic farm that is open to the public one day a week. They sell all kinds of veggies and there is also a dairy truck that shows up. The dairy man offers free range eggs, raw milk and cream. I purchased my first gallon of raw milk - had to shake it up to mix it - but OH MY GOSH, it was delicious! It was from grass fed Jersey cows.

 

[cutes814]

milk does a body good. i remember that line from when i was young. we always have 2% milk in our fridge since my 4 year old daughter might want some at some random time. milk is the best with cookies or with cereal. we have soy milk in our fridge too, but i like the taste of 2% milk better than the soy, unless it''s coconut flavored soy milk, then yum!!

 

[asscherisme]

LOL Pandora, I did the same thing one year! I was so frustrated when my job ended. The in 5th grade, they got CHOCOLATE MILK!! Still kinda nasty but much more tolerable than white milk for this milk hater LOL.

I do like milk in cereal and coffee which is odd since I hate milk by itself so much.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/13/2007 6:43:38 PM
Author: Rock Candy


Storm,

You are SOOOO right! I LOVE milk and drink 2-3 glasses of skim milk per day. In our area there is an organic farm that is open to the public one day a week. They sell all kinds of veggies and there is also a dairy truck that shows up. The dairy man offers free range eggs, raw milk and cream. I purchased my first gallon of raw milk - had to shake it up to mix it - but OH MY GOSH, it was delicious! It was from grass fed Jersey cows.

Im always right even when im wrong hehehehehe
Glad you liked it!!!!
grass fed Jersey is what I had and loved too.
Now actually milking them every day at 6am that was a different story,,,,,
But the fresh milk was great!
Try making whipped cream from the raw cream you will be amazed at how much better it is.
Even icecream is much better made from it.

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 8/11/2007 5:13:30 PM
Author: rainbowtrout




lol...can we tell I am an INTJ????

I don''t mean to threadjack, but I am also an INTJ - no wonder I almost always agree with your posts.

Back on topic, I don''t drink milk. My pediatrician believed it wasn''t good for humans past the toddler stage. I lost the "taste" for it, I guess.