Don''t know what you''ve got til it''s gone

[appletini]

GP, your secret is safe with me, if you hadn''t told me anything the other week I might not have even thought about it, but then I was like, wait a minute this sounds so familiar! I lurk on LIW & BWW occasionnally, plus I like to keep up with Starset b/c we were LIWs together. Plus I''m sure Starset is glad you are sharing your "GP men''s club" rules.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I can''t believe all of this...it''s craziness!!

I''m glad you took a timeout for yourself, this is too much right now.

First, do you feel like you''re able to give New Guy a fighting chance or do you think this whole whirlwind of events with Todd has muddled your head too much? When I left D, I was asked out on a few dates and ended up turning them down because I didn''t think it was fair to either of us. Yes, I was moving on, yes I was focused on healing, but at that point I knew I would just compare them to D and I needed to be out of that frame of thought before I could really move on. Do you feel like New Guy is getting your full attention and really has a chance?

Second, do you feel that Todd is doing the minimum to keep you? After three months of no contact and me moving 1,000 miles away from D, when he called to tell me he was 150% ready to propose, we spent the following 3-4 days talking for hours on end about if/how/why he''d changed. I wasn''t about to be proposed to by a man who was having a knee-jerk reaction or who was proposing to keep me. I wanted to know that he wanted all the same things, that he was embracing commitment, that he''d really walked through the flames and had a DIFFERENT frame of mine. No more fear, no more confusion.

You have to know that something has changed...that he didn''t just do this on a whim. Has he been to therapy? Why have his feelings changed?

Even AFTER the engagement we went to pre-marital counseling--going from dating, to breaking up to engaged is hard on a relatoinship. Anyway, I''m just babbling. I guess I''m just trying to say that even if Todd thinks he can "fix'' it, it''s not smooth sailing.

Please keep us updated--naturally, I just want what is BEST for YOU! And right now some space is probably the best thing for you.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 5/19/2008 2:49:57 PM
Author: Starset Princess

Date: 5/19/2008 1:09:24 PM
Author: decodelighted
Why can''t you ''date'' them both for awhile?

I know guys have been doing this for centuries... But how does one do this? Alternating kisses every weekend?
If I could figure out how to do this without feeling like a

I surely would choose ME and date them both at my discretion.

Wellllll ... I didn''t say it would be a cake walk.

And IMHO it''s not fair to *expect* the guys to go along with it. But it most certainly IS FAIR to *ask* for what you want. Especially if you''re very open with both parties so everyone knows the deal & agrees to it.

Personally, I''d probably do as suggested above & keep "all the way" out of the picture. Which, honestly, isn''t such a bad idea either. Once THOSE hormones (for ladies) get involved all rational thought goes out the window & we''re just as much a slave to those darn love endorphins as those dudes are to their, um, yeahs. I don''t think this "dating both" would stretch on that long anyway. You''d probably get a clear picture of what you want to do (& who

) in a couple of months max.

You are a free agent. You don''t OWE anyone anything. You can choose to spend time with who you want, when you want. What''s that quote: Kisses aren''t promises. Women are so trained to worry about the other person we often times aren''t fair to ourselves. PUT YOURSELF FIRST!! If they are worth your time & really "into you" -- aren''t you worth a couple months of uncertainty? Geez -- you''ve put in a whole year of uncertainty already with Todd.

Now, full disclosure -- if I was "new guy" I would not go for this plan. I''d be very threatened by the ex & your feelings for the ex. But we can''t assume he isn''t more secure -- or -- get this --- not that invested yet anyway & open to just casual dating as you get to know each other. It''s when people''s expectations get so very very very high that people get hurt. Manage expectations. Put yourself first. Let the chips fall where they may.

HUGS!

 

[bee*]

Oh wow! He proposed

I agree with the others-take a step back and as Deco said, you''re a free agent-do what makes you happy.

 

[Erin]

style="WIDTH: 101.53%; HEIGHT: 110px">Date: 5/19/2008 3:36:22 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
First, do you feel like you're able to give New Guy a fighting chance or do you think this whole whirlwind of events with Todd has muddled your head too much?

Second, do you feel that Todd is doing the minimum to keep you?

You have to know that something has changed...that he didn't just do this on a whim. Has he been to therapy? Why have his feelings changed?

First, the new guy is three hours away and I leave my phone in the car. I try to create an environment where there is nothing to trigger my mind elsewhere. When I went out on that first date, I was ready. I honestly thought Todd's opinion would be 'I don't blame you for moving on.' However, to see the new guy this weekend, I'll admit, would give me a sinking feeling to have had such a serious talk with Todd and act like new guy had my undivided attention on our third date.... seems wrong.

Second, Todd has done some things recently that, in my opinion are long overdue, and I wasn't sure if he had it in him to do these things. Mainly, tell his ex his true feelings for her and his true feelings about me. I always accused Todd of being too much of a doormat with his ex - all in the name of keeping things amicable. She deserved to hear that he wasn't nice to her because of the possibility of a reconciliation, but instead for the sake of the children. He invited his best friends over for lunch and told them, I took Erin for granted and now I've lost her. I've got to stop focusing on all the bad things in my life and start appreciating what I do have - and that's you guys. He called his family. He gently explained to the kids that Daddy wants to go on dates. These are things he's been scared to do - which pushed me away.

Todd's rationale is, here I was going through the worst time of my life and my friends and family told me they've never seen me happier (in general.) And that was without me giving you 100% - I never gave you all of me. And I was happy. I want to know how great it could be if I gave you all of me in return. How wonderful could it be then? Or maybe that's a recipe for disaster. Who knows. All I know is I was feeling sorry for myself for having made all these mistakes and mourning all I'd lost while the best thing that ever happened to me had been holding my hand through it all and unfortunately I didn't even recognize that until I didn't have it anymore.

 

[Erin]

Date: 5/19/2008 4:17:37 PM
Author: bee*

Oh wow! He proposed

I agree with the others-take a step back and as Deco said, you're a free agent-do what makes you happy.

I should clarify. It wasn't exactly a down on one knee with a ring kind of moment. It was more of an "I have a plan. Please hear me out. I want to marry you. I want you for my wife and this is what I have to offer and this is how I can get us there................. please accept."

Which in essence means, if I accept this chain of events the outcome is not 'move in a see what happens' it's get married.

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

tell him you want to see the ring

just kidding - but in all seriousness - all talk until he shows you action...

 

[Guilty Pleasure]

saying yes to the chain of events does not mean you have to be saying yes to the proposed end result of marriage. Just be honest with him and tell him that you are skeptical, but hopeful and willing to see where it goes. (if you are willing, of course) Saying yes now does not mean he''s done. He will need to continue to prove it to you until you feel comfortable and appreciated, because as the previous poster said - it''s all talk until you see some action!

 

[Erin]

Your Lovescope - Today, May 19, 2008
The more you try and think your way through the events that happen today, the more confused you will tend to become. Today''s planetary energy makes everything appear the wrong way round and back to front, so it is difficult to trust the information that comes via your five senses. The one thing that will indicate the truth is your gut instinct, so go with this. If you''re single, you''ll find that this shift in planetary energy ends up bringing more lovers to your side than you can handle. Don''t be surprised if you end up juggling four or five different suitors at once.

 

[TravelingGal]

Wise words have already been said, so I will just chime in to agree. Date yourself...take time to clear your head. I agree...this may seem romantic like the movies in your mind, but in reality it''s kind of scary/creepy/unhealthy.

I''m not surprised the second date didn''t go as well as the first...guys that say all that over romantic (eager) stuff can be more fluff than substance.

I''m hoping for the best for you starset!!

 

[wishful]

Just an innocent question, but how many times has "new guy" offered to drive the three hours to see you?

 

[Erin]

Todd lives in my same small town.
There''s nothing to do in this small town.
My sister has been living with my since January.

He has offered both times but I have insisted on driving there.

 

[dragonfly411]

Starset - unfortunately I have to agree with others. It seems that he is making these moves out of desperation to not lose you, but will he follow through? And why didn''t he do it sooner? To me he sounds jealous, and the idea of riding back and forth to work with him, and having all of your things in his house right off the bat..... that just is a bit scary to me. That gives him complete control over you and your belongings and I don''t like that. Not to mention the fact that "daddy going on dates" Is WAY different from having someone move in with those children. Do they even know about you?!?!!?! I''m sorry, but I would see what the new guy is about. Tell Todd that you appreciate the gesture, but it doesn''t seem sincere at this point, but seems more like a last ditch effort to keep you around, and you don''t want it to be that way.

 

[Erin]

So I''ve decided to go for it with Todd. He is the kind compassionate man that I respect and trust. He is my best friend.

He spoke with his exwife last night about his intentions with me and it didn''t go over very well. Basically he wanted to get across, this is what I''m choosing to do. Please do not make things difficult with the boys because the only ones who will suffer as a result is them. She told him he''s making a big mistake and that the boys will never accept a stepmom. In fact, they still think we''re married. (which I don''t think is true) About ten minutes after their phone call the oldest, 8 said he heard the end of the conversation and asked, does Dad have a girlfriend? Mom then asks, what would you think about that if he did? He replies, I would hate him.

He gets the kids every Wednesday and every other weekend. Tonight he is going to sit down and talk to them about me. They know who I am. I''ve been around them about five times but never in the ''sit down and eat dinner'' intimacy. From there he will decide if this weekend is the right weekend to do something together. His ideas are something where they will be involved in an activity like a zoo or putt golf... If I don''t end up meeting them this weekend, I will start to question how long this can possibly drag out. If I do, I''ll have to base my decisions from there.

I told him I am not interested in moving in. I would like to start sleeping there again, and maybe bring my dog over for an evening but not move in. I don''t even want to think about staying there when the boys are staying there until I have earned their comfortableness. And he agreed. He said he just mentioned those things as in, I am willing to accept all these things happening, whatever it takes to get to a point where we can KNOW we can make the final decision.

I still haven''t told the new guy anything. He has been busy and questionably evasive since I left Sunday morning. I still need to handle this somehow but I can think of four completely different things to tell him - all with different intentions. My heart is with Todd but I am a liitle bit scared and leery, too.

Anyway, just thought I''d give an update. (This is the part of the Lifetime movie where you can use the bathroom or grab a soda and not miss much.)

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I really want to be supportive of whatever decision you make, because whatever decision you make is what is right for YOU!

And it does sound like Todd is very serious about this...he's doing things he's never done before and that is a big step, but it's not THE step. Is the "plan" that you will move forward and he will propose in September if all goes well? I know his earlier plan included you living with him until September.

I never had to deal with limbo when kids were involved, so I sympathize with you on that and realize it changes the whole scenario, but I can't help but feel that this is still the minimum to keep you. It's not a proposal, it's a promise of one.

That being said, I know you are an intelligent, self-confident woman and you are doing what is best for you. I wish you nothing but the best!

 

[bee*]

If your heart is with Todd, then that''s the way you should go, however I would take it slow. I would give him a couple more weekends with the kids before thinking things through again as I''d say it will take time for them to get used to their dad having someone else, especially as you don''t know what his ex-wife might be saying to them. Hopefully though this weekend you might be able to meet them properly. Just take care of yourself first though.

 

[Dreamgirl]

WOW! OMG!

I''ve been around here the past few days and I didn''t notice you updating in this tread! OMG whats wrong with me!

Well, if being with Todd is what you think is best, then I wish you the best of luck with him. I agree that you take it slowly with his children. That is a very sensitive subject all on it''s own. I wouldn''t move in right away either. Especially after you have had some relationship problems. IMO, moving in would be the last thing I would do at this point in time. I would just give this new relationship status some time to see if what he is telling you is true and get to know his kids better.

As for the other guy, sounds like maybe those "sparks" actually are not there with him. I would just tell him the truth of what has been going on in your life lately and your current status with Todd.

Good luck with everything.

 

[janinegirly]

I hope it all works out, sounds complicated with the recent divorce and kids in the picture.

Honestly, I think it would have been better to take some time for yourself--in this scenario it appears Todd is doing what it takes to keep you in the picture, and you''re reacting because the new guy is now evasive (much like before you had no interest in Todd after an amazing 1st date). Still no one knows better than you since you are in the situation and we''re only observers.

Keep us posted!!

 

[Erin]

If I were to receive a proposal in the next month I would have to say no. And I sense he knows that.
I was very upfront with him saying, I know they're your kids but this is not going to be easy for me either. Maybe I won't be comfortable being around your kids. Maybe I won't feel comfortable being invited only sometimes. Maybe I'll find them exhausting or annoying. I don't know. I don't have children. Maybe they'll be mean to me and it just won't work. Maybe it'll put a bigger strain on your relationship with them or on our relationship than the risk is worth.

The idea of September 1st is to put a fence out there - so that I don't feel like things are going on and on with perpetually no end.

We know it's going to get harder before it gets easier and we can't predict how it's going to play out. All we committed to is giving it our best shot and take it one step at a time.

ETA: I didin't lose interest in Todd because of my other date. I wrote him off and chalked it up to a dead end and THEN chose to go on a date.

 

[purrfectpear]

Who didn''t see this coming.

You''re making a big mistake, but you need to follow your heart and your gut and come to your own conclusions.

Read my post about being a step parent again if you will. From what you''ve posted I can already see a ton of drama in your future. Ex wife is not going to grow up gracefully. Clearly she will not put the kids best interests first. The kids will resent you (and she will do everything she can to poison them) and act out.

My stepchildren loved me and there were no issues with the ex, and it was STILL quite difficult just having every weekend devoted to them (in your case, every other weekend and every Wednesday).

I will just suggest that you take a moment to consider not only do you love Todd, but are you the woman who will love an instant family? I would do some soul searching about my feelings about stepparenting BEFORE I put the kids in the position of dealing with me. It really isn''t fair to see the upcoming months as a trial to see if you like them. You should be as committed to them as you are to Todd. It''s a package deal.

Good luck with whatever happens

 

[nimue]

Please, let's not judge and say things like "You're making a mistake." None of us is in the situation, we have no idea if it's a mistake or a great idea.

It does sound like a confusing and difficult situation. I'm sorry it's not clearer, or wasn't clearer to begin with. I myself ended a 6 year long distance relationship for good about 3 months ago. During the 6 years, I heard every excuse imagineable. What kills me was I had the ring, but no real proposal, if you can imagine such a thing. It was madness. I honestly don't think I understand men at all anymore. I need a long time to find my balance again. It's definitely better than it was. Crazy what we put up with, isn't it?

Anyway, all I can say is listen to yourself and your inner voice, your intuition. Don't listen to your heart, it gets confused. Mine sure did. Listen to your intuition instead. If I had done that, I would have broken it off over 4 years ago and would have saved myself a lot of confusion and heartache.

All my best to you in your choices. Life can be nuts. Take care of your own needs.

 

[Erin]

I've thought about being around Todd and his children for a year. This is not a split second decision. It is what I wanted six months ago - he just wasn't willing to take action. I'll be 33 soon, I don't have children, and I don't know if I can have children. At the very least I would enjoy watching his kids grow up and if I can have a child of my own, he/she will have elders to look up to. However, we both have to be realistic and know that just because we are willing to try does not mean that it is the best decision for both of us. We will only know if we try.

So the conversation between Todd and his boys went fine. When he mentioned he had a friend, remember Erin? Apparently they both smiled and recalled what they remembered about me. So Todd said, sometimes she might come over and see us and do things with us. And they asked, will she be bringing her dog? So, for a five and eight year old they seemed to do just fine with the news. Now, the exwife called after he dropped them off and said the oldest was too nervous to ask one question. Is Erin Daddy's GIRLfriend? Todd explained he only used the word friend. And that was it. I think he was preparing for the worst so we are relieved.

 

[Croí]

Erin
OMG ! I do my crazy yearly check-in looking for the 2005 gals and I find all of this. Wow lady, BIG things happening in your world. Jeepers.

I just finished reading but my little man is waking ... I''m going to subscribe to you so I can keep up.

GOOD LUCK !! Sounds like you have really thought it all out regarding Todd and I''m glad the first conversation with the kiddies went well. I''ll catch up with you soon hon.

*hugsgalore*
C