DON''T MARRY CAREER WOMEN - says Forbes

[Mara]

hehe the article is no longer available...through that link or even if you go to forbes.com and careers, the link doesn''t work. hmmmm?!?!

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 8/23/2006 5:53:40 PM
Author: fire&ice

Career women are not at home baking pies. We all know pies keep the peace!

HA - they do in MY house.

I could get away with bloody blue murder as long as I baked my sweetie a pie. His favorite dessert is pie.

A few weeks back, I did the uber-lazy pie thing.....got a jar of Harry & David''s cherry pie filling, dropped in into ready-crust from the market and put it into the oven. Took all of ten minutes.

Result? Gorgeous pie, and MASSIVE points with hubby, who thinks I''m just ACES for making him a pie.

Men can be delightfully easy to please sometimes!

 

[Mara]

Date: 8/23/2006 6:02:17 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 8/23/2006 5:53:40 PM
Author: fire&ice

Career women are not at home baking pies. We all know pies keep the peace!

HA - they do in MY house.

I could get away with bloody blue murder as long as I baked my sweetie a pie. His favorite dessert is pie.

A few weeks back, I did the uber-lazy pie thing.....got a jar of Harry & David''s cherry pie filling, dropped in into ready-crust from the market and put it into the oven. Took all of ten minutes.

Result? Gorgeous pie, and MASSIVE points with hubby, who thinks I''m just ACES for making him a pie.

Men can be delightfully easy to please sometimes!

yeah just wait til the day he goes ''where''s my pie?!''...

and you suck for making a CHERRY pie. lemon deserter!

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 8/23/2006 6:03:47 PM
Author: Mara

Date: 8/23/2006 6:02:17 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 8/23/2006 5:53:40 PM
Author: fire&ice

Career women are not at home baking pies. We all know pies keep the peace!

HA - they do in MY house.

I could get away with bloody blue murder as long as I baked my sweetie a pie. His favorite dessert is pie.

A few weeks back, I did the uber-lazy pie thing.....got a jar of Harry & David''s cherry pie filling, dropped in into ready-crust from the market and put it into the oven. Took all of ten minutes.

Result? Gorgeous pie, and MASSIVE points with hubby, who thinks I''m just ACES for making him a pie.

Men can be delightfully easy to please sometimes!

yeah just wait til the day he goes ''where''s my pie?!''...

and you suck for making a CHERRY pie. lemon deserter!

Men are delightfully EASY! And, other than the obvious

- it always involves food!

Mine has about 1000 lines to ask what & when I''m making dinner so it doesn''t sound like "where''s my pie". But, it''s definitely - where''s my dinner!

...effectly managing your man.

 

[fire&ice]

On the more serious tone of this thread, I think being involved & connected to the others career is important. It''s a good portion of how you spend your time. Even when I was in the throws of immersing myself (traveling quite a bit, working weekends, etc.), Hubby was always interested. I''ve always been interested in his career.

It seems like when couples become two ships passing in the night - never knowing or asking about the other''s day - that''s when trouble happens.

And, I am one of the dinosaurs that - if you can swing it - someone needs to be a stay at home parent. There is one SAH dad in my friends neighborhood. When the children were small, they go together for play dates, etc. Now that the kids are older, he is very involved in being a coach.

 

[flopkins]

Date: 8/23/2006 4:24:40 PM
Author: kcoursolle
As one of these so-called ''social scientists'' he is talking about (I am currently working on a PhD in family sociology at a top ranked university)..I can say that he left out half of the story.

This is exactly what I think whenever I read one of these kinds of articles. Total sensationalism, they just pick whatever they want to slant it to out of the article and make totally unfounded generalizations.

ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is why I hate hate hate articles written by non-scientists on science. It never gets interpreted properly.

 

[flopkins]

HEre is the article for anyone who is interested in reading it... I still had my window open and copied it over:

Edited 8/24/06: THe article is back up on the Forbes site, (along w/a counterpoint) and the admins asked me to take down my original post as it infringes on copyrights. Link below.





Careers
Don't Marry Career Women
Michael Noer 08.22.06, 6:00 AM ET

 

[FireGoddess]

Date: 8/23/2006 6:03:47 PM
Author: Mara

Date: 8/23/2006 6:02:17 PM
Author: aljdewey

HA - they do in MY house.

I could get away with bloody blue murder as long as I baked my sweetie a pie. His favorite dessert is pie.

A few weeks back, I did the uber-lazy pie thing.....got a jar of Harry & David's cherry pie filling, dropped in into ready-crust from the market and put it into the oven. Took all of ten minutes.

Result? Gorgeous pie, and MASSIVE points with hubby, who thinks I'm just ACES for making him a pie.

Men can be delightfully easy to please sometimes!

yeah just wait til the day he goes 'where's my pie?!'...

and you suck for making a CHERRY pie. lemon deserter!

She never belonged to you, lemon lover! She's a lime girl!!!

Oh wait - she left us both.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 8/23/2006 6:42:55 PM
Author: flopkins
HEre is the article for anyone who is interested in reading it... I still had my window open and copied it over:

Nick of time, Flopkins! I just read that FORBES has PULLED THE ARTICLE OFF THEIR SITE!!!?? Hmmmm. Interesting.

Perhaps they remembered that WOMEN buy more magazines ..

ETA: HAHAHAHAH --

****FURTHER UPDATE****

Courtesy of GAWKER

"This morning, after we fully digested Forbes' "Smart Women Will Rip Your D*** Right Off," piece, we grew curious about Michael Noer, its author. As it turns out, he's written another piece about marriage for Forbes. This one starts out, "Wife or whore? The choice is that simple."

Using a study by economists Lena Edlund and Evelyn Korn, Noer examines whether or not it's worth a man's investment to get married, particularly when comparable tail is available for a fee. But what of value?

Wives, in truth, are superior to whores in the economist's sense of being a good whose consumption increases as income rises--like fine wine. This may explain why prostitution is less common in wealthier countries. But the implication remains that wives and whores are--if not exactly like Coke and Pepsi--something akin to champagne and beer. The same sort of thing.

It goes on in that vein. There's also a slideshow! (Some images may be familiar from the slideshow in the "don't let your lady outearn you" piece, but no matter.) Also, what if your wife is a prostitute? Is it bad if she makes more than you do?"

 

[CaptAubrey]

Date: 8/23/2006 6:02:17 PM
Author: aljdewey

A few weeks back, I did the uber-lazy pie thing.....got a jar of Harry & David''s cherry pie filling, dropped in into ready-crust from the market and put it into the oven. Took all of ten minutes.

Result? Gorgeous pie, and MASSIVE points with hubby, who thinks I''m just ACES for making him a pie.

Men can be delightfully easy to please sometimes!

If Mrs. Aubrey were to serve up a cherry pie in our house, I would be checking yellow pages for divorce lawyers.

But, not her fault--more to do with an unpleasant experience when the Capt was still aboard ship. Hard to explain. But the very smell of them still makes me ill.

She''s aware of this.

Mrs. Aubrey''s chocolate-covered peanut butter balls, however...

 

[CaptAubrey]

Now, this is starting to get interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Noer

http://www.gawker.com/news/forbes/gawker-cliffsnotes-dont-marry-career-women-196165.php.

http://forums.forbes.com/forbes/board/message?board.id=respond_marry_career_woman&message.id=131

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 8/23/2006 7:13:27 PM
Author: CaptAubrey
Now, this is starting to get interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Noer
http://www.gawker.com/news/forbes/gawker-cliffsnotes-dont-marry-career-women-196165.php.
http://forums.forbes.com/forbes/board/message?board.id=respond_marry_career_woman&message.id=131

Don't forget ...this one.

I'm purdy sure I wasn't overreacting now ... and I'm purdy sure he wasn't meaning this "tongue in cheek". *cough* A**.

CUT & PASTE from the Boing Boing link above ...

Don't Marry Career Men: Forbes hankers for the '50s
Hey, this would be a funny way to start an article in Forbes, wouldn't it?

Girls: A word of advice. Marry handsome men or ugly ones. Short ones or tall ones. Bald or hairy. Just, whatever you do, don't marry a man with a career.

Why? Because if many social scientists are to be believed, you run a higher risk of having a rocky marriage. While everyone knows that marriage can be stressful, recent studies have found professional men are more likely to get divorced, more likely to cheat, less likely to have children, and, if they do have kids, they are more likely to be unhappy about it. A recent study in Social Forces, a research journal, found that men -- even those with a "feminist" outlook -- are happier when their wife is the primary breadwinner.

Right. Now, reverse each gender reference above, and you're reading a real Forbes article: Don't Marry Career Women. 2006, meet 1956. Pathetic.

Reader comment: Nichole takes a break from baking a casserole and detailing her bathroom grout with a toothbrush to say:

The author of the "Don't marry career women" article, Michael Noer, also wrote "Economics of Prostitution" that starts off with the memorable line, "Wife or whore?" ...so he's kind of just an ass. His other stories as executive editor, news for Forbes.com, are frequently about cars, video games, and sports.

For the record: Normally, I rather like stories that combine cars, video games, sports, and whores.

Angel City Blues has this response for Mr. Noer:

I turned 32 in July and have been single for nearly seven years, for a few reasons. It’s partly by choice; I mean, from the college-dropout losers living two to a room and working customer-service, to the attorneys living high up in fancy condos over Hollywood, I dated them all, and somehow, no matter who they were, I was never good enough for them, and I gave up. After that many years of trying to please other people, I decided it was better to please myself, and you can read that any way you’d like, thanks everso. (...) But mostly? I’ve been single for that long out of fear – yes, fear - because I am deathly afraid of ending up with a jackass like you.

Update: And the "best alternate title award" goes to: "Why Michael Noer Never Got Laid Again, Except By That One Girl Who Works at The Piggly-Wiggly and Cain't Read so Good"

Reader comment: Donna says, A rather skewering item-by-item response, for any of the "slower" boingboing readers who thought Mr. Noer had the right idea: "Why You Should Marry a Doormat."

 

[Selkie]

Date: 8/23/2006 6:42:55 PM
Author: flopkins
HEre is the article for anyone who is interested in reading it... I still had my window open and copied it over:


Careers

Don''t Marry Career Women

Michael Noer 08.22.06, 6:00 AM ET

Guys: A word of advice. Marry pretty women or ugly ones. Short ones or tall ones. Blondes or brunettes. Just, whatever you do, don''t marry a woman with a career.


Why? Because if many social scientists are to be believed, you run a higher risk of having a rocky marriage. While everyone knows that marriage can be stressful, recent studies have found professional women are more likely to get divorced, more likely to cheat, less likely to have children, and, if they do have kids, they are more likely to be unhappy about it. A recent study in Social Forces, a research journal, found that women--even those with a ''feminist'' outlook--are happier when their husband is the primary breadwinner.

The hell?? Did I accidentally fall into a time-space warp and end up in 1950s Utah? Excuse me, I have to go tell my fiancé we have to end the engagement because I''m too educated and career-driven for us to have a happy marriage. Oy.

 

[CaptAubrey]

Date: 8/23/2006 7:24:42 PM
Author: decodelighted

Don't forget ...this one.

I'm purdy sure I wasn't overreacting now ... and I'm purdy sure he wasn't meaning this 'tongue in cheek'. *cough* A**.

Well, the article has indeed been yanked. I spent a few minutes trying to find it on the Forbes web site, and it's gone. Not even listed in the author's article archive.

Any bets on whether Forbes is going to follow this up with some sort of official retraction?

It's becoming clear that this is a guy with some serious "wimmen issues."

 

[Mara]

the whore or wife article was pulled too.

 

[flopkins]

hehe... I gotta say, I love the internet... crapola like this just spreads like wildfire and all the bloggers go crazy... and it just blows up in their faces and they take down the articles....

I love the power of the internet.

ETA: And I love spreading it around too... hence the copied over article. I think ppl should know what this idiot said.

Does this make me a bad person?

 

[CaptAubrey]

Date: 8/23/2006 8:04:33 PM
Author: flopkins
hehe... I gotta say, I love the internet... crapola like this just spreads like wildfire and all the bloggers go crazy... and it just blows up in their faces and they take down the articles....

I love the power of the internet.

ETA: And I love spreading it around too... hence the copied over article. I think ppl should know what this idiot said.

Does this make me a bad person?

It''s been copied all over the place, including the Forbes forum thread about the article.

Which just goes to show that even self-censorship doesn''t work on the internet.

 

[Mara]

haha well they left the LINK up from the ''career'' page earlier...but when you clicked it went to a page not found. HAHA. i mean come on! at least be thorough. and delete the message board convo about it too. DOH!

 

[SquareCut]

Well they can''t delete the Google cache.

Here''s a link to the article on their site:

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:wEOsbsrvGVoJ:www.forbes.com/leadership/careers/2006/08/21/careers-marriage-dating_cx_mn_0821women.html+Forbes+don%27t+marry+career+woman&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 8/23/2006 6:03:47 PM
Author: Mara

yeah just wait til the day he goes ''where''s my pie?!''...

and you suck for making a CHERRY pie. lemon deserter!

I......AM......NOT A LEMON DESERTER! *SOB* I cannot help it that my husband is a cherry-pie worshipper.

So, for him, I make it. That''s what you do for love, baby.

But for ME......LEMON ALL THE WAY! (and a good key lime every now and then for balance).

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 8/23/2006 6:54:15 PM
Author: FireGoddess

Date: 8/23/2006 6:03:47 PM
Author: Mara

Date: 8/23/2006 6:02:17 PM
Author: aljdewey

HA - they do in MY house.

I could get away with bloody blue murder as long as I baked my sweetie a pie. His favorite dessert is pie.

A few weeks back, I did the uber-lazy pie thing.....got a jar of Harry & David''s cherry pie filling, dropped in into ready-crust from the market and put it into the oven. Took all of ten minutes.

Result? Gorgeous pie, and MASSIVE points with hubby, who thinks I''m just ACES for making him a pie.

Men can be delightfully easy to please sometimes!

yeah just wait til the day he goes ''where''s my pie?!''...

and you suck for making a CHERRY pie. lemon deserter!

She never belonged to you, lemon lover! She''s a lime girl!!!

Oh wait - she left us both.

Nah - I could never leave key lime. AND I DIDN''T LEAVE LEMON EITHER, DAMMIT.

I can''t help it - hubby likes cherry pie. I''ve tried to explain the error of his ways, but he is unmoved.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 8/23/2006 6:03:47 PM
Author: Mara

yeah just wait til the day he goes ''where''s my pie?!''...

NAH - my husband''s survival instinct makes him WAY too smart to say something like that! lol

He KNOWS he get something along the lines of ....

*withering stare*....."uh........at....the....STORE???!!!!"

hehehehe

He knows that pie comes strictly at my indulgence.

 

[phoenixgirl]

OK, I totally thought that the article was offensive, but I also think that the two-income status quo we''ve got going on these days doesn''t seem to be working. Think of how many people are overworked, unhealthy, not getting enough time with their kids, and in loads of debt. At first glance, you''d think twice the hours at work would equal twice the financial security and quality of life, but that doesn''t seem to be the case for everyone.

Sometimes I love teaching so much that I can''t imagine giving it up to have children. But then, on days like today when I went into school to put up my bulletin boards, only to be reminded of my gum-ridden furniture, puke-orange 70''s carpet, mold that makes my throat sore all year, and lack of windows to the outside world, I think, I can''t wait to leave this behind. But ultimately I would like to be home with my children, at least until they are all in school for the whole day. My mom was a feminist who stayed home for our sake, and I really appreciate that she did. I don''t think I would have the energy to teach and then come home and take care of my children and dinner and cleaning and, oh my, I''m tired thinking of it.

My brother and his wife both work full-time, and they are obsessed with spending every second not at work with their children (I think they need to call Super Nanny, but that''s another story), so even though their children go to daycare, they aren''t able to spend time at home not glued to Mommy or Daddy''s hip. I don''t want to be like that.

Of course, I understand that many people need to have both parents work. My dad''s parents were both teachers, so he never had his mom at home. I think my mom staying home was more of an accident than anything. After my brother was born, my mom went back to teaching college, and my dad and the cleaning lady would watch him while she was at work. Then the school said you had to be on a PhD track to work there, and my dad must have been making enough money for her to stay home, so she did.

An interesting phenomenon in my family history is educated women who never married. My grandparents and their siblings were born in the aughts and teens. Out of five women in those families who went to college, only my paternal grandmother married, and she waited until she was 36 and established as a teacher with her master''s degree to do so. The others were of course limited in their professions, but they all had them and never married. I can''t help but wonder which came first . . . the education, or the desire to be self-sufficient.

 

[mia15]

I was fuming about this article to my friend this morning and here it is at Pricescope! I didn''t really pick up a tongue-in-cheek thing from the article, either.

I am enjoying everyone''s responses, esp. Movie Zombie''s and Wallermama''s (the emoticon''s pretty cute, too) and though I am not currently planning to have children, I have to say what bothers personally is the lame, unimaginative attitude that passes for an "interesting" headline. It IS difficult to change a system which has been running for so long. But how totally asinine that the solution is something like "wait, just don''t marry them!"

Also, am I just imagining this, or wasn''t this linked to 10 Ways to Marry a Rich Guy or something to that effect?

Michael Noer is an assclown.

 

[KristyDarling]

Is it not enough that men can marry trophy wives at age 60, have children into their 80''s, and not ever have to deal with a glass ceiling.....now they ALSO want to pick on women for having careers? WTF!!! This guy must''ve been recently jilted by a girlfriend with a successful career....he couldn''t handle the shame and looked for a way to get back at all women in general.

Reading this article was like riding a time machine back to the early 20th century.

 

[gailrmv]

Well I haven''t read everyone''s posts in 100% entirety but....

it seems like a lot of the pressure is on b/c it takes 2 incomes to buy what you used to be able to buy with 1. I am also REALLY upset with the corporate world in general for making long hours and travel the norm. This is not good for anyone in the long term, well except for those who benefit most from corporate profits.

Eventually, I want to be able to go to work, work hard and smart, and spend just about 40 hours a week there without having to work late or log on from home. I cannot seem to find this and many people look down at me big time for wanting more balance in my life. In fact I am thinking of trying to work part time after I finish my masters, and am being told that there are hardly any such opportuniities in my field!!! Blah!!

Luckily my husband is very supportive of my career and choices. I think we both wish we had a 1950s housewife to take care of everything while we are working!

 

[pricescope]

from http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:wEOsbsrvGVoJ:www.forbes.com/leadership/careers/2006/08/21/careers-marriage-dating_cx_mn_0821women.html+Forbes+don%27t+marry+career+woman&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

"There's more: According to a wide-ranging review of the published literature, highly educated people are more likely to have had extra-marital sex (those with graduate degrees are 1.75 more likely to have cheated than those with high school diplomas.) Additionally, individuals who earn more than $30,000 a year are more likely to cheat."




There IS more? Should it be understood as that girls should stay out of "career men" too?

They going to extinct.


On the serious note, please use copyrighted material fairly. As i did: quote the most ridiculous sentence and link to the source, don't copy-paste all the article.

 

[monarch64]

First of all, I am in pain because I have obviously missed a whole (FUN) lemon pie discussion tonight. Second, I have held myself back from responding to this thread ALL DAY (meaning I saw it at 8-9 a.m this morning) because I wanted to see what everyone''s opinions were. Third, I have to say I read a little article today on askmen.com , haha, about the 12 kinds of women which men should avoid, after reading this thread. There was a headline on my MSN homepage regarding women and the 10 commandments they should uphold after marriage takes place, and one of the links to the article was "12 women you should avoid" on askmen.com. I read it, and WOW, don''t you know, a little piece of me could be found in almost all 12?! It was strange.

Brought me back to this thought: Jeeez, when I was 21 I paid a lot of attention to articles/headlines like these, and while standing in line buying my single chick groceries I actually purchased some of the magazines with these types of headlines. Hmmm...could it be that Forbes knows that if they put something out as controversial as this that people will want to buy their mag??????

My DH and I have our problems, that''s for sure. We both work outside the home, yes I work 40 hours and he travels, etc., etc., but dammit, we are doing our utmost to ensure we maintain our marriage and make each other happy. No magazine article will influence us one way or the other whether we have made the right decision in choosing a mate, and I doubt VERY much that any single person out there will read this article and think, "oh, I have to stay away from xyz, because I might get a divorce later on...." Puh-leeeease. I was a Marketing minor in college, took Buyer Behavior, la la la, the public is smarter than that, in most cases. This kind of thing just makes me shake my head and laugh.

 

[slyons29]

OMG this is the type of crap that makes me CRAZY. Ok i am not married (yet) but this typecast is ludicrous. First of all, 30K is a very low amount of money in major metropolitan areas, however women like my sisters have to work to support their kids and inch towards taxes exceeding $15-20K year to be able to make ends meet and keep them in the best school districts.

Personally, (at a 100K plus salary) as a soon to be fiance I make more money that he does and I do not see what the issue is?

1) No, I don''t clean -- that''s what my $60 bi-monthly cleaning woman is for
2) No, I don''t "really" cook -- I work 12-15 hours a day and travel extenively for work and unless you are cooking for me we''re having take out
3) Wen we have children we will decide who is the best person to stay home depending on potential income.

It is so hard to be a working mom and not feel the pressure!!!!! Best of luck to all!!!!

 

[monarch64]

Date: 8/23/2006 6:02:17 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 8/23/2006 5:53:40 PM
Author: fire&ice

Career women are not at home baking pies. We all know pies keep the peace!

HA - they do in MY house.

I could get away with bloody blue murder as long as I baked my sweetie a pie. His favorite dessert is pie.

A few weeks back, I did the uber-lazy pie thing.....got a jar of Harry & David''s cherry pie filling, dropped in into ready-crust from the market and put it into the oven. Took all of ten minutes.

Result? Gorgeous pie, and MASSIVE points with hubby, who thinks I''m just ACES for making him a pie.

Men can be delightfully easy to please sometimes!

hee hee, my mom is the QUEEN of obtaining things with PIE. Unfortunately, I never learned how to make one...good for me DH grew up on store-bought pie (i.e. the dreaded Bakers'' Square pies, lol!)