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E-ring saga, part 2

diamondseeker2006|1395784468|3641259 said:
Since the ring has been returned to them in excellent condition, I do not see why the theft is an issue at this point.
Because a vendor that does not want to accept returns will use ANY excuse or resource to bolster their position.

diamondseeker2006|1395784468|3641259 said:
If we assume the store says no returns (and possibly exchange only), the only way I see getting out of it is if the stone was misrepresented.
Which is what I said previously.

diamondseeker2006|1395784468|3641259 said:
But it could be the right stone and they just made a typo on the receipt. In that case, they may have no grounds for a credit card dispute.
You mention "they" twice in this phrase. Can you be more specific? Which "they" are you referring to? One of the beauties of credit cards is that it is not your money you are buying with. If you are not satisfied with a purchase within a *reasonable* amount of time, credit card companies will usually stand behind their best client - the consumer.

diamondseeker2006|1395784468|3641259 said:
So it still seems to me they need to know if the diamond is the one on the receipt or the one on that IGI report. Going in with knowledge gives them the upper hand in what to ask for, in my opinion. I'd just go back to the nice jeweler who caught the thief and ask him to measure the stone for you and see if it matches up close to that .70 stone. We are talking about a very quick visit.
Or better yet, get the nice jeweler to verify the number inscribed on the girdle. It is unlikely a thief would substitute one inscribed diamond for another, or have any on hand for impromptu replacements. :knockout:
 
I hope they will give you a refund, but if they will only exchange the stone, and not do a return, at least your setting is gorgeous, and if you add a stone you love, would make that ring quite a beauty. If they know the ring was out of your control, then they will probably say the stone in the ring now, is not the one they sold you. Make sure you have all your ducks in a row. This sounds like a really tricky and sticky situation. I hope all turns out the way you want.
 
SandyinAnaheim|1395812675|3641526 said:
...
Or better yet, get the nice jeweler to verify the number inscribed on the girdle. It is unlikely a thief would substitute one inscribed diamond for another, or have any on hand for impromptu replacements. :knockout:


That was my thought, too: There should be an inscription.
 
This is a very badly cut stone, one problem with IGI certs, by no means would I call the cut on this stone good, it is totally off center and oddly shaped, the symmetry, well, there is no symmetry. I too saw a yellow tint but that could come from lighting. I too am a lawyer AND a gemologist but I am almost certain they will give you a hard time especially if they sold such a poor quality stone. Now if there was misrepresentation then you have a case. Whether it was a typo or not, come on, certainly not a typo but even so it would be hard to believe. You can definitely assess the weight of a stone in a setting accurately, at least in the case of most setting. A leveridge is your best friend in this case but most likely only professionals have this equipment but if you can go in to any jewelry store they should be able to give you the specs. I am really curious how this ends and what an ordeal! Hope you can find a solution and yes please do research and get advice here when searching for a new stone so you do not end up with something like this one. I am extremely sorry about what happened to you, almost unbelievable.
 
Well, it's a pretty good ending to the story. I went to my trusted jeweler & had him read the inscription. I plugged it in the Internet & the stats matched up with what they claimed to sell us (1.02ct, princess cut, G color, SI1). However, the cert. read ONE 14 KARAT YELLOW GOLD MOUNTING (RING), WEIGHING IN TOTAL APPROX. 4.7 DWT., STAMPED "14K PLAT 1.02"/WITH LOGO, CONTAINING ONE NATURAL DIAMOND (SET IN PLATINUM). So we went into the jeweler saying we were unhappy with the clarity, cut, incorrect certificate, & especially with the fact that they never told my fiancé it was preowned. They admitted the certificate was a computer error but refused to refund our money because it's a verragio ring & was custom made for us & the diamond. She actually said she loved us & wanted us to be happy, gag. So we negotiated to one of 2 quick options (rather than taking legal/credit card actions):

1.They take back the diamond for $5000 & we keep the setting (probably what we will do).
2. She said they would replace the diamond with one that was vs2 & f color, no charge. She then grew hesitant when I said I no longer want a princess cut, & would want to pick a different shape. She said the setting only fit princess cuts but she will contact verragio to see if they would swap out the diamond for a different shape. I am betting she tells us we have to do a princess cut (which I don't think is true, right?). In that case we definitely will go with option one.
I would like to check out what she shows us we can change to, but I know they will likely be crap. She's going to have a much harder time swindling me than my fiancé.
They never gave us any information on the verragio ring, warranty info etc, so does that mean there isn't one? If we do take the setting how do we go about contacting verragio & having a new stone set once I buy one? Or am I stuck with this store?
Final questions, what shape will look good in this setting? I had wanted an oval but don't think it'd fit right. Can verragio redo prongs? These are kind of stubby for my taste.
Ugh, she was obviously used to this situation, she had every line about loving us, wanting us to have the best, & being happy every time I look at my ring. Fiancé did awesome, we were the perfect team & I was proud of him!
 
I'm so happy to hear you're near resolution! I would take option 1, along with the original Veraggio documentation, and hightail it out of there!

What? They don't have the Veraggio paperwork that all new settings of that "caliber" should come with? Uh-oh, another misrepresentation! Is this a used setting too?

Call Veraggio or go to another jeweler that sells them to see what it's supposed to come with. Maybe your team will get all your money back after all! After all, it IS promising that they've come this far. I don't know what state you live in, but in some places this kind of bait and switch is called consumer fraud. :twisted:
 
I'm so happy to hear it was a clerical error, and the jeweler is willing to work with you. Congrats and thanks for the update.
 
+1 for option 1 simply because I do not think you can trust these people to find a good diamond for your setting. About the shape, there they are likely right as the shape and size do really matter, the setting/prongs will have to be readjusted for a different shape/size. In most cases this is not a problem but I would talk to the jeweler who made the setting about a very different shape and size. I am glad you are finding a solution, what an ordeal, well this will surely be a very memorable ring and engagement. You guys should celebrate it when it is done and even now that it was found, hey it never hurts to celebrate.
 
Okay, I guess it was too good to be true. Now the story is that verragio basically doesn't want to touch the ring because the pave diamonds go up the prongs. So, taking $5000 & the setting isn't really an option anymore, nor is replacing the stone. So their new solution is to take back the whole thing but to just give us $8,500 in store credit. I guess this was just a brief phone call from the store to my fiancé. They really wanted us to say yes but wisely my fiancé said he had to speak with me. Oh & now the slimy lady is going out of town for a week. So I can go look for a decent diamond there (but it'll probably cost way more than it should) or we can keep arguing. If they can take back the whole ring, I believe they can refund our money. I'm guessing they still don't have the diamond's real number and therefore have no idea if they have a certificate (we kept the ring and they foolishly never asked for the number inscribed on it). So do keep insisting for a total refund? I still need to contact verragio myself to see if the store is being truthful. Ugh, I feel like I am going to be married before I get my ring! It just makes it worse because everyone wants to see it, etc. I feel so bad for my fiancé and he is dealing with all of this so well, I am blessed to have such a great guy.
 
Insist for total refund and if they refuse, file the credit card dispute. I would NOT take the store credit. I'd walk with the setting and $5k if I had no other choice. $3000 lost is better than $8500. And you can just set a colored stone in the Verragio for a right hand ring eventually or sell it at a loss on ebay. I think it is very possible a cushion would fit in the setting if it does not have princess corner prongs. But great cushions are few and far between, and they are unlikely to be able to provide one.
 
I would threaten the hell out of them with contacting your local news station (ours has a "six on your side" deal they do when people get ripped off) I had a Verragio setting and it came with their brown and orange box and a plastic card with all of the details.
I would also go over the sales lady head, the store managers head and contact the district manager before doing anything else, or even talking to them again. I had something happen and contacted the district manager and he was more than happy to make things right.
 
Wow this is becoming quite the saga! I would not file a credit card dispute because if the store's policy of exchanges only or no returns is posted or your fiancé was made aware, you may lose your credit card dispute and the store may take all that off the table. Then you would be stuck with the ring. The "typo" on the paperwork can be fixed and is just an error, so that wont really help you either unless you truly then just seek legal action. In that case you are looking at lengthy process that perhaps SandyinAnaheim can advise you with further.

I would try to continue to work with the jeweler. You can try to sell the setting, or maybe pure a colored stone in the setting. When I look at the setting, it is clearly for a princess, but maybe if you contact Veragio they will have a way to make an oval fit.

You and your fiancé have already been through so much with the engagement, and I feel so bad for you. I agree this should be a time for celebration, and I hope this gets resolved soon.
 
Id contact Verragio first and foremost. What a nightmare.
 
In a way, he did order a custom setting so I partly feel like you should pay their cost for the setting since those are generally not returnable. However, the stone was misrepresented as a graded stone, so I do think you have grounds to dispute the whole thing. I would not be ugly about it. I would just say that you are not happy with the ring, didn't want princess cut, and they misrepresented the diamond.You want a full refund or you will have to file a dispute with your credit card company.
 
This is indeed quite the saga, I'm so sorry that what should be a joyous occasion has been marred by such troubles.

Could you clarify something for us... your fiance remembers being told the ring is "exchangeable." Is the store's return-policy (refund or exchange-credit only) policy printed anywhere on any of the receipts? There's no printed policy showing in the pics you posted of the parts of the order receipt, but it's almost always printed on the order/deposit & purchase receipts, altho' it may be in small print at the bottom on the back. Or is the store's policy posted? At least here in NY, that alone is all that's required of retailers & is deemed good enough to put the customer on notice.

I may be missing something, but it's not yet obvious to me that you'd win in the pursuit of a credit card charge-back. The diamond described in the IGL certificate, which bears the number inscribed on the diamond, does match the princess cut diamond your fiance selected & it seems the stone is set into the Verragio Insignia 7050 mounting he ordered:
http://www.verragio.com/Verragio-Engagement-Rings/Insignia-Engagement-Rings/INSIGNIA-7050

ame|1396013463|3642827 said:
Id contact Verragio first and foremost. What a nightmare.
Yep, Verragio should be able to confirm that they made the ring & what box, etc. they sent along with the ring to the local jewelry store. Just make sure you nail down the fundamental fact that they indeed made & delivered the ring before you discuss with them (a) the kinda wonky way the stone was set (they may say they did the best they could with the diamond sent them], and (b) the viability of swapping in another stone.
 
Sorry that this happened to you. :(

I once purchased a ring, many years ago, that was a final sale special order piece. When I received it, the center stone didn't match the description of what I ordered, and the ring showed obvious signs of defective workmanship. The store denied my request for a refund, so I filed a dispute with my CC company (nothing to lose since I wasn't getting anywhere with the store). Despite the final sale policy, my CC company sided with me because the ring I received didn't match what I had ordered, and it was defective, so they agreed that it was misrepresented.

That being said, without knowing what the exact return policy is, it's tough to say whether a CC dispute would likely result in the outcome you are hoping for (refund).

Can you find the exact policy and share that with us? I think it would be really helpful to know this information as you proceed in negotiating with this store.
 
Aspen714|1395874300|3641943 said:
Well, it's a pretty good ending to the story. I went to my trusted jeweler & had him read the inscription. I plugged it in the Internet & the stats matched up with what they claimed to sell us (1.02ct, princess cut, G color, SI1).

This is why I would work with the jeweler. The diamond was not misrepresented there was just an error in the cert number on the paperwork, but the diamond is what was purchased.

This is just a nightmare. I feel terrible for you, and IMO I would exhaust every means with the jeweler before pulling the trigger with a dispute because I don't imagine they will offer this after.
 
luvsdmb|1395987704|3642748 said:
I would threaten the hell out of them with contacting your local news station (ours has a "six on your side" deal they do when people get ripped off) I had a Verragio setting and it came with their brown and orange box and a plastic card with all of the details.
I would also go over the sales lady head, the store managers head and contact the district manager before doing anything else, or even talking to them again. I had something happen and contacted the district manager and he was more than happy to make things right.

+1 (I agree. Time to make threats.)
 
luvsdmb|1395987704|3642748 said:
I would threaten the hell out of them with contacting your local news station (ours has a "six on your side" deal they do when people get ripped off) I had a Verragio setting and it came with their brown and orange box and a plastic card with all of the details. * * *
Aspen hasn't said that her fiance was not given Verragio's box & authenticity card when he picked up the ring last Saturday. He stashed the surprise inside his truck, which was then broken into. It's not outside the realm of likelihood that the thief who stole the ring
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/stolen-e-ring.199859/#post-3637560#p3637560
ditched the Verragio packaging (box, etc.) before trying to sell the stolen ring at other places in the area. That would explain why the good guy wasn't able to return the packaging along with the recovered ring.
 
There's a lot to respond to! Fiancé still has original bag from jeweler, I searched through it and did find a verragio card so at least we know that part is okay. There was a blurb about return policy on the back of the receipt, I will have to reread it after work tonight. I do remember it had a section about custom jewelry & no returns. Fiancé did say (before any of this came up) if I didn't like the ring the sales girl said we could exchange it but we might lose a little bit of money (whatever that means). He just wanted to surprise me so badly & was caught up in the swindling moment that he didn't consider what a little meant (grrr, I am a super shopper & look for the best product at the best cost). This was totally out of character for him but he wanted to be romantic. The store still has no certificate for the diamond so currently that is our best bargaining chip. I'm not sure if a store has to inform the customer that the diamond was already set & worn in a ring but that part seems really shady. I'm thinking the pave diamonds along the prongs are the reason they won't just swap out the stone anymore. I know the store is hoping we take store credit because if I want a decent diamond & the same setting we will end up having to spend more.
 
I just had a chance to read through your threads and I'm so sorry that you're going through all of this, my goodness!! Congratulations on your engagement (the most important part :)) ), and I'm hoping that this can be settled fairly. Please let us know how it turns out okay?
 
Okay, is the diamond graded by GIA (I may have missed that)? If so, then you are probably going to have to take the store credit. If it is an unreliable lab, you may be able to get an independent appraisal that says the color or other specs is way off what was represented. But if it is GIA and what they listed on the sales receipt is accurate, then I think you are kind of stuck. But you can not settle for just any diamond and make them call in stones until they find a great one.
 
Nope, not GIA, it's graded by IGI. The only problem with an appraisal now is that I read a set diamond just has to appraise within 2 grades of it's color/clarity. They rated it an f/g on the sales receipt, the IGI certificate says G. The diamonds in the setting are F/G & look way brighter but they are smaller. To me it looks like an H. It gets a yellowish flash across the whole table when I turn it a certain way. I've noticed it in different lighting situations but no one else does. My jeweler just laughed & said I'm a diamond snob (but said that's not a bad thing!). We are going in to look at their merchandise tomorrow, I should be looking forward to it but it is more nerve racking than anything. They seem to have all the tricks in the book and I don't want to make any decisions I'll regret. I did wonder if I could just buy a loose diamond, take it home, appraise it, then return it easily (if the appraisal goes badly) or go back for a setting afterwards. Any thoughts? I guess I should go to bed so I can be on my toes! I'll let you know how it goes.
 
Id there a way that the OP or a Pricescoper can locate a princess stone from the virtual list here, and then her store there can get it? That would probably be the best and most expedient, since this store she is dealing with doesn't seem to be in the same league as "us."
 
Aspen714|1396248382|3644155 said:
Nope, not GIA, it's graded by IGI. The only problem with an appraisal now is that I read a set diamond just has to appraise within 2 grades of it's color/clarity. They rated it an f/g on the sales receipt, the IGI certificate says G. The diamonds in the setting are F/G & look way brighter but they are smaller. To me it looks like an H. It gets a yellowish flash across the whole table when I turn it a certain way. I've noticed it in different lighting situations but no one else does. My jeweler just laughed & said I'm a diamond snob (but said that's not a bad thing!). We are going in to look at their merchandise tomorrow, I should be looking forward to it but it is more nerve racking than anything. They seem to have all the tricks in the book and I don't want to make any decisions I'll regret. I did wonder if I could just buy a loose diamond, take it home, appraise it, then return it easily (if the appraisal goes badly) or go back for a setting afterwards. Any thoughts? I guess I should go to bed so I can be on my toes! I'll let you know how it goes.

Okay, what shape diamond are you looking at? #1, tell them you only want to see GIA graded stones, period. If you wanted a round, this would be FAR easier because we could really narrow down the specs for you. Do not under any circumstance commit to any stone before coming here with the specs. Take a camera and try to get macro shots of the top view of the diamond.

It is possible you could get 2 grades difference on an IGI stone when appraised. You know you'll be paying more for a GIA graded diamond that is well cut there, but at least you won't be stuck with a setting you can't use.
 
I think this is a great idea because I have been thinking of a solution and it is possible that they are simply not competent, simply ignorant, yes this is possible, many stores in my area are like that; the people working there are not educated and know very little about diamonds. Of course I am not saying they are blind as they should have seen how grossly this princess was miscut but it is very possible that they are not used to the same standards that educated customers need. I would not trust them at all in selecting a diamond; it is possible that this problem can be worked out but I would recommend if you like it OP to stick with a similar shape the setting can accomodate and select a well cut stone. There are some beautiful princesses out there. I would also recommend a radiant but I am not sure whether this setting can be custom altered to accomodate the shape. I personally prefer both shapes over a round but this is a very personal choice and extremely subjective. Picking one out with the forum's help would be a great idea and simply have it sent over to the store although I do not know whether the store will want to do this as not sure how they would make a profit on this and whether they are willing to go this route. Best would be to get a refund on the centerstone and selecting one yourself elsewhere.
 
If they will still refund the $5,000 for the stone, that would be your best option. When I had to select a new stone from the B/M I got my ring at (my stone chipped and the store had a lifetime guarantee), I found stones I liked online and forwarded the certs to them. Then they let me know which ones they could get and which ones were a durability risk for them, and they wouldn't allow. I actually went up in size, and paid the difference. Of course they charged a premium for the online stone, but I now have a gorgeous AGS000 that I love. ( I saw someone else mentioned this route, and I for one, know the stores can do it, if they want to) I hope this all works out for you.
 
We went to the store today to meet with the salesgirl we were most comfortable with. She brought up the idea of going with only GIA certified diamonds, went over what I want & said she'd try to have some in by Thursday. It all went well, so fingers crossed she finds good options otherwise it's going to be quite the search. So if anyone knows of any oval diamonds, 1 to 1.3 cts, G or better in color (f is ideal), vs2 or better clarity, with as close to no bowtie as possible, the search is on! I'd appreciate all the help we can get!
It was amusing to see my fiancé pointing out what prong styles I like & talking about bowties today, he's catching up quick & already said we can go up in color & carat size... he's got the fever!
 
Aspen714|1396325581|3644792 said:
We went to the store today to meet with the salesgirl we were most comfortable with. She brought up the idea of going with only GIA certified diamonds, went over what I want & said she'd try to have some in by Thursday. It all went well, so fingers crossed she finds good options otherwise it's going to be quite the search. So if anyone knows of any oval diamonds, 1 to 1.3 cts, G or better in color (f is ideal), vs2 or better clarity, with as close to no bowtie as possible, the search is on! I'd appreciate all the help we can get!
It was amusing to see my fiancé pointing out what prong styles I like & talking about bowties today, he's catching up quick & already said we can go up in color & carat size... he's got the fever!

I would look at Good Old Gold and see what they have in ovals. They're really good about sourcing fancy shapes, so if they don't have something on hand, they can get stones in for you to see. If you request it, sometimes they'll create videos for you to compare a number of stones side by side, in various lighting conditions. Those videos are SO helpful.

They'll also provide ASETs, and other tools that are helpful in making an informed decision. In my case I asked for DiamCalc so that I could see how light played across the facets as the stone moved around. Once I saw that, I was in love!

I purchased my 1.33ct D color oval from them and couldn't be happier! It has a great spread, with dimensions closer to a 1.6-1.7ct stone, and a minimal bowtie. They worked w/ my budget to help me get the best diamond for my money, and they delivered a fabulous oval that still surprises me with the amount of fire and brilliance that it gives off.

I hope you'll contact them and see how they might be able to help in your quest. They're a wonderful team of folks!
 
I am sorry but I didn't read the whole thread.

Just some initial thoughts - I am not sure you have any grounds to really stand on for a credit card dispute. The diamond is the one your fiance bought - slanted, included and all. He picked it out and it matches the IGI certificate which is what came with the stone. What it says on the receipt/invoice is wrong but that was human error that could have been corrected assuming your fiance was given the IGI certificate and bought based on the IGI certificate.

In general, settings are made for specific shaped stones and you can't just put anything in there. For that setting, I think you can get a round stone in there or another square stone.

I honestly don't think the store owns you anything other than a corrected invoice but that's just my two cents. You got what you bought. The diamond looks slanted because it is (and not a bad setting job). You see inclusions because it is not an eye clean SI1 - known to be a possibility. Most diamonds are pre-owned but gets re-papered and sold as new - this is pretty common practice.
 
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