Effectively Managing Your Male...

[Mara]

into engagement?

lately sometimes when i read these threads from the LIW's...i sometimes wonder....is it just a case of how effectively you are able to 'manage' your guy?

i ask this because i always see these LIW threads about frustration or waiting and i always think...well hmmm if you both want to really get married, then what's the holdup?

i thought of this also because my girlfriend who is getting engaged soon, i posted her ring over in SMTR...her bf was a trial in saintly patience. he's oh 35ish and the perpetual male bachelor type, loves her, wants to get married, they talk about marriage and kids and all that and then he'd freak out and pull back and balk. well my girlfriend is 36 and she wants to have kids, as does he and so she was finally like, look stop talking about it and just do it. because i'm not going to wait forever.

and he gave her the lip service, yes he wants to do it, yes he adores her, yes it's time (it's been 1.5 years)...but then he'd have these mini freakouts and she'd have to relay all this groundwork brick by brick. with thicker cement.

she'd tell me everything that was going on and multiple times i was like ARE YOU SURE you want to marry this guy?!?!?! my god he would drive a saint crazy! is this how all your life decisions are going to be? are you really sure you know who you are marryig? and she was like yes i love him, this is the one, he just needs to get past this mental block etc. she had faith in him that he could do it. i was not always so sure!! it was like two steps fwd and then one step back or sometimes 3 steps back! there were a few times when *I* was practically pulling my hair out in frustration for her.

anyway, here she is, a month later after some of the biggest freakouts, the diamond was purchased, the appraiser was seen, the ring was bought, the diamond was set...now they are heading off to some romantic B&B this weekend that she found...and the deed will be done. i look at her admiringly as i am thinking WOW seriously you pulled it off. how? she knows how to effectively manage her guy. it's true. and not in a bad way, but she knew what he wanted in his heart and she could help him get there. to me that's is a way of working very well together.

sometimes i wonder when i hear these LIW stories on here if maybe some of you gals just need to learn how to effectively manage your men. how to get them past their fears or the lip service and into what they really want, which coincidentally is something you all want as well....the proposal, the engagement, the marriage, the life together.

i never REALLY understand when the gals on here say 'oh we want to get married, but he's just taking a while'...because i think well how does THAT work? i was one of the types like my friend who as soon as Greg gave me the inkling of any sort of maybe-green-light attitude towards marriage, i had a PLAN in my mind and i was off and running. i managed him into our engagement just as effectively as my friend did hers...we just had different tactics. and the funniest part is that some of the most reluctant men while planning turn into the most excited finace's imaginable!! hers is totally in that mode now too, he can't WAIT to be engaged and plan the wedding and move in together etc. that is so how greg was after the ring was done as well. i don't view managing the guys as something bad, or taking away their willpower or anything. it's more like a slow, subtle way of feeling them out and determining 'best course of action' to get the desired end result. people management if you will.

anyway i wonder if any of you gals have given thought to this? i guess this is kind of like along the same lines of couples who have been married for a long time and people are like 'how do you get him to agree to doing XYZ' or the question like 'how did you get him to agree to an upgrade'. i think that is all kind of part of managing your guy...not just to get what you want, but to see what he really wants, because face it, many times guys don't really tell us what they want, it's like we have to dig and pull it out of them. babbling now but just thought i would throw this out there.

 

[Fancy605]

I once had a guy friend say, "Next time he brings up marriage, act like you could really care less. Then he''ll be like, ''wait a second! I better get on this before she forgets I even exist,'' and he''ll get on it." Who wants to test out that theory?

 

[Mandarine]

Hi Mara!

I can''t help but think that my post made you think of some of these things...

You might be right on this managing thing....do you have a book? hahaha, just kidding.

I guess I feel there is some truth to what you say, but I also think it depends on how the girl feels about it. I don''t want to "manage" my engagement...I don''t feel like this is something that should be managed and just the thought of it upsets me a littl....why? because I wish it was all romantic and dreamy and it just *happens!*. Is it always like that?...not at all, hence the need for the managing....but I guess I still refuse to "manage" it. I almost feel that''s like driving him to it, instead of him wnating this for himself...and I wouldn''t want to feel that I drove him to marry me. I don''t know if I''m making much sense (I have a cold and I''m on a conference call where they keep asking me questions!)

I don''t want to book the hotel where my BF will propose, I don''t want to see the ring before he proposes or choose the exact ring....these are things that to me that need to come from him (this is just me). At least in this me and my BF are both on the same page.

It is also a cultural thing. The whole engagement process is not a big deal back home (in Venezuela)....most of my friends don''t even have an engagement ring so it''s hard for me particularly to go through this phase because none of my friends or family can relate to this "waiting to get engaged" thing.

Ok...gotta pay attention to this conference call...I''ll come back to this later!

M~

 

[scarlet16]

Mara-
What you said made me think of an article I just read in the NY Times recently...
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/25/fashion/25love.html?ex=1152417600&en=0bdde332931eb17e&ei=5087%0A


But anyways, I have thought of this. We finally got engaged after 5 years together and I think the reason was I "managed my male" as you say. I would lay hints but not push. In fact, although I figured an egagement was coming, I was dead on SHOCKED when it happened so early. I expected it in maybe another year or so. My fiance was the "I''m never getting married, totally against-the-man" type when we first met, but I''d noticed he''d changed and when that happened I swooped in w/ my innuendos.

 

[Mandarine]

Great article!

This also reminds me of a book that literally made me laugh out loud, called "The truth behind the rock"...

It''s about the before, in between, and after engagement process. It was good because it shed some light into what goes through a guy''s head!. It''s also good because you feel that you''re not alone and most girls go through this (since it rarely just *happens*!)...

The things is that most girls (in the real world, not on PS) don''t tell you about this awkward and sometimes painful period of waiting....you just get to hear about the "beautiful proposal" so you wonder "why can''t my guy just do that!?". Most girls in the real world don''t say what they went through to get to the "rock"!.

Communication is definitely the key...and being clear without being pushy!

M~

 

[allycat0303]

Well my boyfriend really wants to get married, so I didn''t have this problem. I can''t imagine how frustrating it must be for a girl to want to move to the next level, and for her boyfriend to be stalling. Personally I have no PATIENCE..

I think some guys say "I want to get married" and mean it in their heads to be "In the distant futur 10 years from now, if we''re still together" Or maybe to mean "At this point in our relationship I can see this potentially being a long term, possible marriage material" And it doesn''t necessarily mean: This year, or next month. And I think some guys (not all) say all sorts of things they don''t mean. Or that they mean in that very moment but not later. Or they say it because they think it''s what a girl wants to hear. And sometimes they really DO MEAN IT. Guys are complicated creatures (so are girls) for that matter.

So I pay very little attention to what guys say (my boyfriend included) when it comes to that stuff. I read everything into actions, what he does, how he acts. He can say whatever he wants, and I''m not listening. Incidently, I''m not one who says things like "I love you" alot because those words mean little to me if it''s not backed up by a ZILLION actions.

As for managing in daily life (non engagement), I''m very, very headstrong and demanding. So if I want something and if I''ve judged it to be reasonable, he knows that I''m going to do it REGARDLESS of if he says yes or no. It''s just so much more pleasent when he goes along with it. However, we rarely disagree in long term life decisions... his only complaint is that I tend to reasearch and plan things to death.

Oh yes. And he''s a little afraid of me

 

[galeteia]

Hmmm.

I''ve never been in the position of ''managing'' my male into an engagement, mostly because I''ve had to manage plenty of males, and they all became exes because of it. I came to the conclusion that some of the behaviours that are excused as ''typically male'' just weren''t acceptable to me. I wasn''t willing to be with a man who required management. That was just my own personal decision. It was too painful.

I''ve never had to manage my FF. He''s a psychologist, and his debunking of ''typical male'' behaviour has been really eye-opening. The good side of having a psychologist as my partner is that he doesn''t pull sh*t like all my exes did, and pass it off as my problem for not being able to accept/deal with it, or because I was being a ''typical woman'' about it. The bad side is that I can''t get away with any malarky myself. I was recently outlining my reasons for why I didn''t confront him over a behaviour of his that was hurting my feelings. Here I was, thinking I was being all mature, understanding, and reasonable. He gave me a withering look and said "You''re rationalizing my hurtful behaviour."

Being with my FF has changed my assumptions about men and emotional responsibility. It''s not just for women anymore. My exes all brushed off emotional responsibility as being a ''woman thing'' and something that men just didn''t do. It was the "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" idea backlashing against me. My exes took their masculinity as an excuse/reason to avoid emotional responsibility, and strangely, they got away with it because ''everyone else was doing it''.

Being with my FF has prompted a tune-up on my part, too, and done some very constructive work on how I deal with emotional responsiblity myself. We have our issues just like everyone else does, of course, but we deal with them as they arise, and it seems to be working for us.

Sometimes I have to ''step up'', and sometimes he does. When it comes to engagements and the huge issues it brings up, I personally feel that it''s the time when one needs to ''step up'' in a big way.

 

[Mara]

hehe mandarine, yes your post did make me think of this...but it was something that had kind of been stewing in the back of my mind since watching how effectively my girlfriend managed her man.

manage is kind of a negative word i think and i don't mean it in that sense. i also don't mean 'pushing' either. it's more like the whole laying of hint thing or gauging your man maybe and 'laying the groundwork'. i mean obviously we all know our respective males way better than anyone else right? why wouldn't we know how best to get them to the point that we'd like them to be?

i think that the issue is that many women view it as a really emotional thing, getting engaged. many of them do have that dream in their mind, or the wanting to be surprised, romantic he delved into my mind and created my draem ring kind of thing, which is totally fine, but i think that those women also have to realize that may slightly hinder your getting to the final destination. because let's face it, there are some really romantic, thoughtful fabulous men out there (noobie anyone?) who go the extra mile and a half and plan everything out down to the rose petals on the bed, but many of the other fabulous men out there just don't have a friggin mental clue!! Greg is totally like that...i plan everything in our relationship and mentally i was kind of like boy it'd be nice if he'd just do this one thing right. BUT why would i expect that from the proposal? is he going to grow some romantic gene just for the proposal and ring planning? not gonna happen. hehee. but it doesn't mean he doesn't make me feel special in other ways, nor that i ever doubt that he loves me and wanted to marry me. he does very special and romantic things for me but not in the traditional sense, so it wasn't surprising that he didn't really get (like most men) what the proposal meant really. he didn't even get on one knee!

anyway, i think that it's definitely the whole something for everyone kind of thing, i mean hopefully people who are with their men realize their plusses and minuses and love them anyway and in spite of them and maybe even become of them. but i just thought of this recently in watching my girlfriend..and i realized i had done something a little similar with my engagement and my man and it's amazing how when you can kind of get them past that freakout period that they are just SO on board. i DO believe in the whole mars and venus thing having been in many relationships, and i think understanding things about men vs women will help many people in the long term.

i think of this kind of along the same lines of when people ask me how i got my upgrade or whatever...like it's some sort of magic that i worked on him to get him to see my way. but in reality i just know my husband and he knows me and we know the best way to kind of go about getting how we want from each other...tee hee. we understand that we each have important things that aren't important to the other..and we can respect that...and i think that most men just don't realize the engagement is kind of like that too.

Oh and great article!!! hehee. oh and when i am thinking of the whole managing your male thing, i don't just mean engagement. i think that it's something that continues on into marriage, aka the upgrade thang.

 

[eleguin]

I agree that sometimes, guys need a little nudge to get them to where you want him to be, which is often also where he wants to be but just doesn''t take the initiative. I realize that I''ve done this with my fiance ever since the beginning. We met in 2000 and there were so many subtle sparks (oxymoron I guess) between us. I knew he liked me, but he was one of those shy guys who just would not admit his feelings and make a move. I was fine with making the first move, but I really wanted something a bit more natural. I figured that if anything was ever to happen, I would have to push him along. I planned things to do and places to hang out that had a romantic backdrop to it. My friend at the time criticized me for doing so much planning. She said these things should be initiated by him or planned by him. But I didn''t listen, so I hung out with him at Battery Park under the moonlight, the Brooklyn promenade, etc, and lo and behold, one evening as we sat on a bench overlooking the river, I casually put my head on his shoulder and he put an arm around me. That was all it took!

Now, all these years later, I''m definitely nowhere near as subtle as I was back then. I''m very direct about what my timeline is and what I hope for our future. But sometimes I stop myself from "over-managing." Once in a while, he stops and asks: "How come we always do everything that you want?" I guess somehow, I''ve managed to get him to go with whatever I wanted. Like he wanted to live in Queens, but I insisted on Manhattan, therefore we are moving to Manhattan this fall. He wanted to get engaged in 07 and married in 08, but I wanted 06 and 07, so I had my way there too. Sometimes I get frustrated with him for not taking initiative, but he defends himself by saying that I have become so opinionated and stubborn about what I want, there''s no way around it. So while I think it''s good to give the guys a nudge here and then, sometimes it''s not so great to be taking over the relationship.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 7/7/2006 3:24:44 PM
Author: Mara

i think that the issue is that many women view it as a really emotional thing, getting engaged. many of them do have that dream in their mind, or the wanting to be surprised, romantic he delved into my mind and created my draem ring kind of thing, which is totally fine, but i think that those women also have to realize that may slightly hinder your getting to the final destination. because let''s face it, there are some really romantic, thoughtful fabulous men out there (noobie anyone?) who go the extra mile and a half and plan everything out down to the rose petals on the bed, but many of the other fabulous men out there just don''t have a friggin mental clue!! Greg is totally like that...i plan everything in our relationship and mentally i was kind of like boy it''d be nice if he''d just do this one thing right. BUT why would i expect that from the proposal? is he going to grow some romantic gene just for the proposal and ring planning?

I really think this goes right to the heart of it. I think part comes from not having realistic expectations.

All the sappy movies and all the romantic notions spur women into wanting "the perfect proposal". They see it on TV and in movies, and it''s so prevalent that it seems that EVERYONE is getting that drop-dead romantic proposal except for you....when that''s really not true.

(It''s like watching Donna Reid.....when I was younger, seeing programs like that made me think that "perfect families" were the norm, and that my family and its issue were the anomoly. Imagine my surprise when I got older and realized that very FEW families model after the June/Ward Cleaver set, and REAL families do have real challenges.)

Mara''s right....there ARE some really romantic men out there who do flower petals and the whole nine yards.....but most of the time, those men aren''t just putting on a persona for a special occasion; they are like that all the time. it''s part of who they are.

We''ve seen Noobie do really thoughtful things for his wife, but it''s who he is. It''s not a persona he adopted just for the proposal.

Like Mara, I''m the planner in my relationship. It just wouldn''t be realistic on my part to expect Rich to become some Clark Gable, sweep-me-off-my-feet, uber-romantic guy just because we were getting engaged. It wouldn''t be fair to him, either......to become disappointed with his efforts because he wasn''t trying to be someone he isn''t. Like Greg, Rich is romantic in 110 ways, but they are little things and not the cliche gestures.

Nope - he''s practical. Our engagement was very much like our relationship; he wanted me to be happy with the ring, so I did the homework, I selected it, and he proposed to me with it when it arrived. I suppose I could have said "I''d rather be surprised", but if I had, I''m sure it would have taken much longer because he didn''t feel confident in selecting something I''d like.

 

[caligal]

Hee hee- Mara- GREAT topic!!

I''ve found myself nodding my head, smiling, chuckling and as usual learning something new from the fabulous ladies on PS. I KNOW I work on managing my man as we are now in a city by my family (not his), we have a timeline for engagement, and we are now negotiating life plans for future (house plans? to have a family or not? etc). I think as women we have 2 options: 1. to sit back in a relationship and communicate none of our needs/wants/desires or 2. to talk about our dreams, hopes, desires, ask for his and come up with a plan to achieve/compromise on both!

I know the hardest piece for me is that I like Mandarine and countless others, had a very different image of what the pre-engagement stage would be and now are trying to reconcile what the relationship is. I LOVED that article and it reminds me of the advice my Mom often gives me about my honey. May I recommend the PS ladies write a book?

Seriously! How many of you have looked for these types of management... how to get to engagement... etc.. books and been sorely dissapointed by the titles... "The Surrendered Single" "Why Men Marry Some Women and Not Others"- lame!

Mandarine- YAY for your Masters! I just sat in on a session today about a doctoral program- yikes!

 

[Fancy605]

Date: 7/7/2006 2:25:51 PM
Author: Mandarine
I guess I still refuse to ''manage'' it. I almost feel that''s like driving him to it, instead of him wnating this for himself...and I wouldn''t want to feel that I drove him to marry me.

M~

I feel the same way. I don''t ever want to feel like I "tricked" my b/f into marrying me. I do agree that sometimes men need coaxing. And they need to know your feelings. They may think YOU don''t want to marry THEM if you don''t mention it once in a while. I feel like the best way to insure things go right is to apply as little pressure as possible. I think most of you are suggesting women use encouragement rather than pressure.

I had refrained from bringing up any talk of engagement for quite a while because it seemed my B/F would go along with it happily, and suddenly push me away for no reason (I suggested it was because he was secretly afriad, and he finally agreed). So I just decided to be paitient and enjoy having him in my busy single life because I realize that I''m in this relationship for him--not a ring (though I do love sparkles!) and surely not a wedding (I am secretly afraid of my wedding day). Well, not too long ago he took me to dinner and told me he wanted to discuss something. I agreed, and he asked what I would think of getting married in the summer of ''07. I relished the moment and backed off again until even more recently when he told me I should go ahead and start thinking about where I would like to have the ceremony. He told me I don''t have to pretend I''m not interested in weddings anymore and can discuss it with him openly, but I still try to keep that to a minimum because once we are engaged, we''ll probably get sick of talking about weddings, right?

So sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be paitient. And honestly, I think you, Mandarine, and I have the same wish: For him to honestly be ready to be with you. It''s just hard to be the one who is ready and quietly waiting.

 

[Sundial]

Amen Mara and Aljdewey! I don''t normally post over here because I am 51 years old and I have been married for 29 years, but I do read some of the posts. It amazes me how many independent young women are waiting in agony for their men to propose to them! Whatever happened to two adults deciding together that they want to share their future and then making wedding plans?

 

[aussiegirl23]

One thing that made me laugh is that while I certainly steer my man into a lot of things (and AWAY from a few), this is one thing I''m willing to be a little more patient on. To him, it''s supposed to be HIS show... and on his timeline. And does this infuriate me as an independent, young, highly-liberated woman? YES!

But to be frank, I get the reigns to most other aspects of our relationship (finances, the final decision on our house, which dogs we adopted, restaurants, movies, etc...) Okay, that''s making me sound bossy... and a little bitchy! But really, he more just steps back and puts me in the driver''s seat... Oh yeah, that''s another one - he lets ME drive all the time (because he knows I love driving)! I think to be honest he likes having someone with an actual OPINION and the confidence to speak it. Also, I think by the time he leaves work he is so sick of giving orders and taking care of all his underlings that a nice "hop to" from his girl is refreshing : )

So am I willing to let him negotiate this next step in our relationship? Yes - it''s important to him, and honestly, since this is one of the VERY few places where he runs the show, I''m going to let him have it... for a REASONABLE amount of time... While for the most part, this isn''t the case in our relationship. That makes it especially wierd for me to be waiting on his initiative and decision... But, also a reassuring step because by letting him step up to the plate, I remind both of us that we are in this TOGETHER... despite his deference to me 90% of the time...

Enough babbling... just my .02

Aussiegirl : p

 

[RoseAngel04]

Date: 7/7/2006 1:37:27 PM
Author:Mara

i ask this because i always see these LIW threads about frustration or waiting and i always think...well hmmm if you both want to really get married, then what''s the holdup?

i never REALLY understand when the gals on here say ''oh we want to get married, but he''s just taking a while''...because i think well how does THAT work? i was one of the types like my friend who as soon as Greg gave me the inkling of any sort of maybe-green-light attitude towards marriage, i had a PLAN in my mind and i was off and running. i managed him into our engagement just as effectively as my friend did hers...

OK, I''ve got to agree with Mandarine on this one.

Mara, to your question about "what''s the hold up?" Different couples have different "hold ups." Mine personally is that we are waiting for finances to be ready etc. to get the ring, be able to live comfortably together once we are married etc. I think everyone would agree that this is a positive thing to be "Waiting" for. My ff has expressed to me and others that if money was no object that we would already be engaged, but as we all know money doesn''t grow on trees. We are a young couple and don''t have an unlimited supply of disposable income. He is getting there, and I''m very proud of him for working so hard for himself and our future.

But for other couples the "hold up" could be many other things. For example I have read on PS that there are couples in LD relationships, so they could be waiting until they can live in the same city before getting engaged. Another could be that the male is just not ready to give up his bachelorhood. I am lucky that I didn''t have to "manage" my man into wanting me to be apart of his future, but other women may have to deal with this problem, and this could take time. All I am hoping for us all to take into consideration is that we DO NOT know everyone''s situation and that there are reasons for not jumping into an engagement the second in registers that both ppl in the relationship want it.

Hope that all makes sense....

 

[Mara]

RoseAngel...of course there are different hold ups..no one is saying that everyone's relationship is the same. This is just 'let's consider a different perspective'.

The question was more like what's the hold up if they both want it and all the ducks are lined up. Which it seems like we get a lot here on PS as well. Frustrated women who are just waiting. The thought is... 'well what about doing something about it?!

This was not not about being in different countries or anything like that, or waiting 2 years to get married because you are finishing school in another state, which obviously may be an obstacle you can't push away.

 

[RoseAngel04]

Ok, Mara I gotcha! What you said makes sense then. I agree as long as all your ducks are in a row...

 

[Mara]

oh and LOL i love the idea of a book on how to manage your man into engagement!!!! that''d be too cool.

 

[Mandarine]

Ducks in a row..........

That''s something I think about. To me, all our "ducks" are in row! To him, they''re not....but that''s because he has things going on that I don''t believe are obstacles, but to him they are and I know he would rather get some things off his plate before actually proposing. Gotta respect that...right?

Mara, when you say that we should do something about it. I did!....we have talked....I can''t go on venting to him everytime I get frustrated because I think it will start causing problems in our relationship...so for frustated-venting I come here, that''s why I have your girls!

. Now, as far as managing him into proposing, that''s just not me.

Sundial, I completely agree that nobody should just sit there waiting. I know I''m not. We have discussed things as adults and know what we want. Now, this whole engagement thing...he wants this to be his thing and for me to be surprised, etc etc...and to me it''s just a "silly" (for lack of a better word) act that shouldn''t necessarily happen before we can start making solid plans. It''s a huge cultural difference and we have gotten better at understanding where the other one is coming from.

Alj made some great points on the thread I started. I get frustrated because I "thought" it should have happen by now....when in reality, he hasn''t broken any promises and we''re still moving ahead. Now let''s say 2006 comes and goes and nothing happens....then that''s a WHOLE other story that hopefully won''t happen so I won''t need to come here to discuss it!.

Ok...back to cooking and BF getting here soon! Candles are lit and dinner smells delicious!!!!!!!

M~

 

[leeenie]

Date: 7/7/2006 6:35:53 PM
Author: Mara
oh and LOL i love the idea of a book on how to manage your man into engagement!!!! that''d be too cool.

I love the title of this thread, it made me chuckle. The first thing I thought of before I read it was actually the upgrade issue

There is this book that may have been mentioned on here before, called "Closing the Deal," about how a woman can move a relationship from girlfriend/boyfriend stagnant commitment to engagement/marriage and apply business strategies to the relationship - stuff like research, planning, steps, etc. The premise made sense to me - why not use the skills you would in any other aspect of your life - job searching, working, purchasing a home, etc. - to further your relationship? It''s not the most romantic notion, but life is short, and IMO it''s better to take control over your own future and know what lays ahead than to live in that horrible, powerless purgatory (I know because I did it, or thought I was doing it). It''s funny because this book (or maybe another similar book I''ve seen) has a cover with all of these engagement rings on it, all giant-sized stones of different shapes, in a Tiffany blue-like color. Definitely eye-catching - someone knew how to play to the target market!

 

[leeenie]

Here is the cover - yum, look at those rings! (I could have sworn the background was Tiffany blue)

 

[Mara]

yes teagreen!! that is exactly what i am talking about! using skills you use in other areas of your life to further your relationship, exactly. i mean how many interactions do we have daily with people? relationships we manage? you know how to talk to certain people, deal with them, how to get the raise from the boss, etc. i don''t view the relationship with my husband as THAT much different. it''s knowing who you are working with/living with/speaking with and how to behave, in a way. i think people may view it as like the relationship has to be this great romance and it is supposed to be different but it''s just about a ''relationship'' in the end and how you work within it.

 

[LizzieC]

Date: 7/7/2006 1:37:27 PM
Author:Mara

i never REALLY understand when the gals on here say ''oh we want to get married, but he''s just taking a while''...because i think well how does THAT work? i was one of the types like my friend who as soon as Greg gave me the inkling of any sort of maybe-green-light attitude towards marriage, i had a PLAN in my mind and i was off and running. i managed him into our engagement just as effectively as my friend did hers...we just had different tactics. and the funniest part is that some of the most reluctant men while planning turn into the most excited finace''s imaginable!! hers is totally in that mode now too, he can''t WAIT to be engaged and plan the wedding and move in together etc. that is so how greg was after the ring was done as well. i don''t view managing the guys as something bad, or taking away their willpower or anything. it''s more like a slow, subtle way of feeling them out and determining ''best course of action'' to get the desired end result. people management if you will.

Absolutely Mara... DH totally shocked me when he first told me he was thinking about marriage... but once he did, I was all over it!

The only thing he said about the engagement schedule at the time (Summer ''05) was "I was planning on talking to your parents over the holidays"... Well, somehow I ended up "managing" that into "you''ll talk to my parents at Thanksgiving and we''ll be engaged by New Years Day".... I honestly can''t remember how I pulled that off, (and I asked DH, and I doesn''t remember either), but that''s the impression that we both had while we were in our pre-engagement. DH did talk to the parents over Thanksgiving, bought the ring (which I picked out) a couple of weeks later, and it totally burned a hole in his pocket, because he proposed two days after it arrived.... we had a 6 mo. engagement... and now we''re married!

I honestly think if I had just waited for him to do it all himself without my "encouragement", there''s a chance I would still be waiting for him to talk to my parents... and if I''d let him pick my ring, it would be nothing like the one I picked for myself.... sometimes a girl''s gotta take a little initiative!

 

[TravelingGal]

Right on.

Manage is a word that I think works. Having managed a staff before, you learn to deal with people in ways that work best for them. The worst managers do a one size fits all technique that they they are comfortable with. The key to managing is stretching yourself and finding the best way to encourage an employee. Some people need gentle coaxing. Some people do best with a goal and being left alone to challenge themselves. And some do need a swift kick in the pants.

I somehow managed to get my man to leave everything he knew to move into a different hemisphere from me. For it to work, I had to let him think that A) it was his idea and B) his happiness was of key importance to me.

In the final stretch of the process (2 years in, and only 6 months away from finalizing) he got a massive case of cold feet and called me up to say he couldn''t move. He loved his job and his friends and at this time he couldn''t leave it all for the chance that we would work out. I was floored and devastated...and also in shock.

The next morning the shock wore off and the tears started flowing. I called up a friend and went over to her house for the day. She asked me what I was going to do, and I said I would move on. When he called later on that night to see if I was OK, I had pulled myself together. I told him I was very sad but that his happiness was important, and how could I ever live with myself if I somehow forced him to leave everything he knew and loved and he was miserable here? He had to do what he thought was best. I fully understood how scary it must have felt to pack up and move for a possibility that may not even work out.

Anyway, within a few days, he changed his mind and resolved to move here. At first I was like "what are you DOING to me buddy!" But he never wavered from that moment and of course is here now! Apparently he was just amazed at how I handled it, and realized that this was a woman who just wanted him to be happy...and that he really wanted to make her happy too. That and the fact that his friends told him he was crazy to choose them over me! They even told him they wouldn''t be around for him forever and he would be an old lonely man...hee hee.

So I "managed" him the best way I could. I knew that telling him that it all didn''t seem fair, or couldn''t he please just try it wouldn''t jive. In my case, I left him alone and called it a day. I wouldn''t want his commitment any other way...and any other way it just wouldn''t have worked.

 

[ladykemma]

when hubby and i started dating we were both iin our thirties. i was very clear that i was marriage minded, and further, that me being a member of the mormon church, there wasn''t going to be getting the cow for free, so to speak.

.

we were engaged in 90 days, and married within the year.

 

[anchor31]

FF and I are both Catholics and always wanted to get married and have children, so it was just a question of when. We''re young, so we''re not in any kind of hurry, but to me it was important to be engaged and officially committed (and not one of those "engagements" that happen often with young couples here that are more like the "promise ring" step than the "official engagement to get married" one) before moving in together. Moving together for fun, or just to see how it goes, is just not something I''m comfortable with. If he hadn''t been ready to propose, I would have been fine with it; a wedding isn''t possible before summer 2008 anyway.

I thought for a while that it had sped up his plans for a marriage proposal, but when I asked him about it, he said that he had been thinking about a proposal in 2006 anyway. However, I do think that he was originally thinking about a longer engagement, but now that the process has started, I think he''s pretty excited about a 2008 wedding too! We''ll have know each other for almost six years, been together for five, engaged for two and living together for a year, so it feels right.

 

[Apsara]

Should it really be that much work? You either do or you don''t. Sometimes, there are tangible concerns/issues in the way, such as money, religion, one person having been devastaed in a prior relationship.... Otherwise, if a woman has to jump through so many hoops, then it''s almost pathetic and not worth her self esteem. Maybe I am spoiled--I really did have a "true love" relationship and we were and are still very in sync.

I think the best approach is for the woman to say, "I am ready. I want marriage/a family in my life. I love you and think you are ''the one'' but I need to know what YOU want. Period." You''re either on the same train or you''re not.

 

[Mara]

hehe you could be on the same train but is your train traveling like a snail or a hare?!

 

[jesterjigger]

I think in a way it was more an effective way of managing myself. I looked at the guy I was dating and wasn''t giving me what I wanted and made a list of what I didn''t like. Then I just made sure my next bf didn''t have ANY of those qualities. I also was honest from the beginning about what kind of person I was (it helped we were friends for a year first). We were a little set back by both of us being a little tentative and not talking about our hopes/goals for the relationship when we were both in the place to be ready to do that (each waiting for the other to make that move) but once we did it was full steam ahead. I nudged the engagement forward a little, because we were moving to Korea and I wanted it to be done before that since DF had been thinking a month after we arrived. But otherwise, we were basically on the same page. Of course, he also knew about my 2 year rule...if I''m dating someone for more than two years and he still hasn''t said he wants to marry me I''m not wasting any more time. Of course, that''s also in the situation where both parties are out of college and working in the real world for at least a year...it''s different for everyone, but that''s what I decided and was going to stick to. Fortunately it was just a week or two over our 1.5 year anniversary so I didn''t have the next five or six months to get even more anxious. We also did the whole ring buying thing together, because he wanted to make sure I liked it, so the element of surprise was a little gone, but it was still a surprise when it happened. Of course, for me it was easier because I''ve got such a great guy...he''s not like your typical male at all, so I''d probably have to handle things differently with a typical male...

 

[fiery_di]

Great topic, and there have been many insightful responses.

I think I had the problem of ''over-managing'' if that is possible.

My man and I have been together for 2.5yrs. We moved in together last June (05), so come beginning of this year I decided to be the initiater and planned to ASK HIM. I got wind that this was not a good idea just before the ''proposal night'' and then disclosed to him exactly my plans, to which I was told that he would have flatly refused as it is ''his'' deed to do the whole ''proposal'' thing and he simply wasnt ready.

Needless to say it hurt a great deal and I still have issues over him not wanting to have accepted my proposal if it had eventuated, that and the fact that 6 months down the track he has told me it wont happen for another year...

Another thing that isnt helping is the fact the I am a little on the religious side being a conservative Baptist and the whole ''sleeping together'' thing is getting to me to the point that I actually started sleeping in the ''spare'' room to ease my guilt...

Not seeking sympathy though, just needed to get it off my chest... I admit I am a VERY impatient and pushy person and I do need to ''let it happen'' in his time and when he is ready... But it shouldnt necessarily be up to the man should it?!?!