Engagement ring design :)

[LetLoveRule]

Thanks for the tag @rockysalamander. My opinion would be that 7mm is right on the edge of being too high without being careful, especially with an unprotected girdle. I'd prefer to see it around 6mm and/or bezel set the center diamond. Four prongs leaves so much exposed and flat edges seem to attract more dings than round ones for whatever reason (at least in my experience).

OP, I haven't read through your thread but do you have any rings currently that you love the height of and find that you don't whack often, if at all? If so, take it to a jewelers and have it measured. That would be where I'd start. For reference, my perspective is coming from having an 8x8 asscher that's bezel set, roughly 6.5mm in height off my finger if I recall correctly, and it takes some good bumps. I do wear it 24/7 though (unless I'm just wearing stacking bands, which is often lately ) so it is thrown into all kinds of daily living activities (dogs, sports, house work/Jeep work, etc.).

Thanks for your input. I've started wearing an old ring that is 7mm (measured by myself though) to test and it's fine so far. It's not a diamond ring and the shape is different than my radiant. I also take my rings off when I get home but this might change when my engagement ring is finished as I obviously want to stare at it 24/7

I don't mind lowering it a bit to 6/6.5mm or add a bezel or bar. I'll try and find some examples online to see what works.

Measurements of my radiant are 653 * 540 * 397 btw

 

[LetLoveRule]

Would this ring be doable handmade?

Opinions?

Also what price would you think is reasonable for both cast and handmade?

 

[LLJsmom]

I don't know how to explain height in terms of mm. I usually just ask the the stone be set as low as possible without the culet actually touching my finger. That is the right height for me. Anything that protrudes higher than that is at high risk for being knocked around.

 

[LLJsmom]

Opinions?

Also what price would you think is reasonable for both cast and handmade?

If you are referring to the ring in the most recent pics, if VC was making that, I would expect to pay at least $4,500, including stones. If cast, I would not pay more than $2,500. These are my own numbers. Nobody quoted me anything.

 

[sledge]

I got a quote for a CvB handmade guys ring I liked. Nothing fancy. White gold alloy, brushed and had an offset line/groove on one side with NO diamonds. Price was over $3k and good up to size 13 and 8mm width.

In comparison, my fiancee's ring was just a little over $2k through DK, much more complex design with pave and channel set stones, etc. Price included all CAD work, design process, plastic mold, wax mold, setting, shipping and insurance. Also comes with a "love it or we remake it for free" guarantee.

Depending how many and what size of princess cuts I would imagine your ring would be $2k or less with someone like DK, and probably a minimum of double that for handmade through a CvB, VC, etc.

I don't see tons of intricate work in your ring that makes me think DK couldn't execute well. I think the difference, at least to me, is I see VC or CvB more as artists which can be good in some aspects as they usually have a vision aspect others may not have (at least at a deeper level). Also having worked with artists and architects in the past, they can be very finicky if you want something they don't "feel good" about.

A few years back I was managing a $200 million project and thought i was going to kill an architect because we had a tough schedule and my sub had painted a wall per the color they specified yet it felt too warm to him. Literally we wasted a week getting color samples to appease his damn feelings. Also as the result, the owner received a change order for costs and lost time since he deviated from a color he specified and had plenty of time to feel good about.

 

[Matthews1127]

Exactly! That's what I meant showing the terrible bezel above then the JA ring. I think adding those features tie things together more.

On height...I'm paging others for opinions. I may be paranoid right now having just told my co-worker that her EC is not dirty, there is a serious chip missing... @foxinsox @SimoneDi @ILikeShiny @diamondseeker2006 @LLJsmom @ac117 @Matthews1127

The setting that is being designed is a 4-prong setting for a radiant cut ~5.88*5.70*4.25 (size from memory). Is a table height off of the finger of 7 mm in cathedral setting too high for daily wear and comfort? Do you think a radiant of this size and at this heigh should have some girdle protection?

My ER is set higher than most, here, are comfortable. The design itself is a cathedral style but the setting itself was designed mainly for a round stone. Not exclusively, but with the round shape in mind when it was designed.
Our jeweler had to create a head that fit into the setting that would hold my emerald cut diamond. The original setting was designed to hold up to an 80 point diamond; My EC is over 1ct, and far from round...lol!!
In order to protect my diamond, the jeweler used platinum and tab prongs that are slightly thicker, in order to create a shield of protection around the stone. They actually protrude out, away from the diamond, which I have found to be very effective, as I wear it every day, and I use my hands, constantly. I rarely bump it, but when I do, the prongs have always protected my stone.
In addition to the cathedral style, there’s also a collar that surrounds the center, which creates more height. If not for this additional feature, I do not believe that my center diamond would sit so high above the shank.
I believe that if you are concerned about the girdle, you could create a fine basket that would fit right under the girdle, and you could set bead set rounds along the basket, for additional bling, and add more cohesive style to the shank.
I love the height of my engagement ring for two reasons:
1. There is plenty of room for my wedding band, and my diamonds do not touch the head or the Centerstone preventing any kind of damage or rubbing affect.
2. Step cut stones show dirt faster than any other cut, and the culet is lifted high enough out of the head, away from the shank, to make cleaning easier.

Your radiant is brilliant cut, therefore I do not foresee cleaning being as big of an issue as it is with an emerald cut diamond. However, I do recommend a little bit of space, in order for any cleaning brush to get under the stone and get whatever dirt may lurk.

I don’t know if any of this information is helpful, but I can attest to the fact that a high set engagement ring does not complicate your life; you just have to design the ring in a way that makes you most comfortable.

Here is the thread for my ER. Maybe photos can help you visualize what I described, so you understand the aesthetics. I don’t think that my engagement ring looks “too high” and I think that it sits well on my finger.
Everyone’s taste is different...
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/meet-uisce.231677/

 

[rockysalamander]

Have you thought about looking at Verragio settings? At this point, your desing is in their wheelhouse and you might find exactly what you want at a similar price. None of these are "perfect" but just to give you a sense of the styles I'm seeing.

Below are all Verragio settings

For girdle protection, a bezel is certainly possible. A good maker can make a very fine/thin barely-there bezel. Another option would be a halo with tiny little stones. If you sink the main stone so the girdle is just over the halo, that will offer a lot of protection from normal bumps of life. But, they are not inexpensive to have done well.

Bezel in the same vein as you are designing. The bezel could be much more delicate than this.

 

[LetLoveRule]

If you are referring to the ring in the most recent pics, if VC was making that, I would expect to pay at least $4,500, including stones. If cast, I would not pay more than $2,500. These are my own numbers. Nobody quoted me anything.

I got a quote for a CvB handmade guys ring I liked. Nothing fancy. White gold alloy, brushed and had an offset line/groove on one side with NO diamonds. Price was over $3k and good up to size 13 and 8mm width.

In comparison, my fiancee's ring was just a little over $2k through DK, much more complex design with pave and channel set stones, etc. Price included all CAD work, design process, plastic mold, wax mold, setting, shipping and insurance. Also comes with a "love it or we remake it for free" guarantee.

Depending how many and what size of princess cuts I would imagine your ring would be $2k or less with someone like DK, and probably a minimum of double that for handmade through a CvB, VC, etc

Just to give you a bit of an idea: I've received quotes ranging between 1800 - 2500 AUD for handmade, AK is a bit more expensive at 3300 (but includes shipping that's not necessary and higher coloured diamonds so it will likely go down) for my old design. One jeweller has seen the new design and said it won't be much more expensive and it can be done handmade.
I've only received one quote for cast, which was 3500.

DK sounds great but I don't know if it's a hassle to have him ship the ring (and having to pay GST) and then have someone else set the center stone.

I'm just not sure what the best option for my ring is, handmade or cast.

 

[LetLoveRule]

I don't see tons of intricate work in your ring that makes me think DK couldn't execute well. I think the difference, at least to me, is I see VC or CvB more as artists which can be good in some aspects as they usually have a vision aspect others may not have (at least at a deeper level). Also having worked with artists and architects in the past, they can be very finicky if you want something they don't "feel good" about.

I have talked to one jeweller that's also a designer and I didn't feel comfortable with her. She actually had the nerve to tell me to settle down (after I told her in detail what I want) clearly not PS material

The one local jeweller that I do feel comfortable with and many others have vouched for is the kind of jeweller that doesn't design but rather makes exactly what you tell him to (handmade).

In short.. I have to agree with you
(and besides, I've got you guys helping me with the design! What more could a girl ask for? )

 

[LetLoveRule]

Have you thought about looking at Verragio settings? At this point, your desing is in their wheelhouse and you might find exactly what you want at a similar price. None of these are "perfect" but just to give you a sense of the styles I'm seeing.

Below are all Verragio settings

I sure have! that's partly where my inspiration came from. I found a CAD similar to the first ring you posted and changed it to suit my style. While I really like some parts of their designs, overall I think they're a bit much. I also really enjoy designing my own ring, that suits me perfectly and will be one of a kind

 

[LetLoveRule]

My ER is set higher than most, here, are comfortable. The design itself is a cathedral style but the setting itself was designed mainly for a round stone. Not exclusively, but with the round shape in mind when it was designed.
Our jeweler had to create a head that fit into the setting that would hold my emerald cut diamond. The original setting was designed to hold up to an 80 point diamond; My EC is over 1ct, and far from round...lol!!
In order to protect my diamond, the jeweler used platinum and tab prongs that are slightly thicker, in order to create a shield of protection around the stone. They actually protrude out, away from the diamond, which I have found to be very effective, as I wear it every day, and I use my hands, constantly. I rarely bump it, but when I do, the prongs have always protected my stone.
In addition to the cathedral style, there’s also a collar that surrounds the center, which creates more height. If not for this additional feature, I do not believe that my center diamond would sit so high above the shank.
I believe that if you are concerned about the girdle, you could create a fine basket that would fit right under the girdle, and you could set bead set rounds along the basket, for additional bling, and add more cohesive style to the shank.
I love the height of my engagement ring for two reasons:
1. There is plenty of room for my wedding band, and my diamonds do not touch the head or the Centerstone preventing any kind of damage or rubbing affect.
2. Step cut stones show dirt faster than any other cut, and the culet is lifted high enough out of the head, away from the shank, to make cleaning easier.

Your radiant is brilliant cut, therefore I do not foresee cleaning being as big of an issue as it is with an emerald cut diamond. However, I do recommend a little bit of space, in order for any cleaning brush to get under the stone and get whatever dirt may lurk.

I don’t know if any of this information is helpful, but I can attest to the fact that a high set engagement ring does not complicate your life; you just have to design the ring in a way that makes you most comfortable.

Here is the thread for my ER. Maybe photos can help you visualize what I described, so you understand the aesthetics. I don’t think that my engagement ring looks “too high” and I think that it sits well on my finger.
Everyone’s taste is different...
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/meet-uisce.231677/

Thank you so much hun I will go through your post and thread (again! I've obviously already swooned looking at your ring) on my computer on the weekend and study your ring

 

[LetLoveRule]

For girdle protection, a bezel is certainly possible. A good maker can make a very fine/thin barely-there bezel.

Would the bezel go around the girdle and leave the table open? What is the difference with a bar around the girdle, so a basket rather than just prongs?

 

[LLJsmom]

You probably already know this but handmade does not necessarily mean hand forged. Don’t know if that matters to you. Cast can still be hand made. Hand forged means no casting.

 

[rockysalamander]

A bezel is a piece of metal that folds over the girdle.
To achieve a perimeter of metal around the girdle without a bezel folded over, you could use a "prong in bezel setting" where it is basically a bezel width of metal. But, the top edge does not fold over. The vertical part of the bezel is like a little fence outside the girdle and the girdle hovers just over the part that is under the stone. So, its like a thin metal halo of metal with no diamonds. . So, it looks like this. For a radiant, you'd want this shaped to show the cut-corners.
https://www.borsheims.com/artcarved...g-set-ring-mounting-with-diamond-gallery-halo

Not the right shape or style, but you can see in this example from CVB that you can still have a decorative gallery.

 

[arkieb1]

You probably already know this but handmade does not necessarily mean hand forged. Don’t know if that matters to you. Cast can still be hand made. Hand forged means no casting.

This exactly I'm an Aussie and 99% of jewellers here that say they can "handmake" something for you mean they make a wax mould for you and then cast the item or a combination of cast and tiny pieces they do by hand. There are very very few people that hand forge everything from scratch even in Australia without any casting or moulds.

And David Klass, IDJ and a number of others in the US should be able to make a great version of this, the work here mostly is not as well done (ie the fine detailing) if you do decide to go with someone here ask to see a lot of rings they have made themselves first.

 

[LetLoveRule]

You probably already know this but handmade does not necessarily mean hand forged. Don’t know if that matters to you. Cast can still be hand made. Hand forged means no casting.

Yes, I do when I say handmade, I mean fully handmade so hand forged. The jeweller that I prefer does hand forged, no casting at all. I'm not sure about the others but I don't have a good feeling about them, so won't go with them.

I'm still not sure which way to go though, I'll have to read up on the differences (see my other post https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/engagement-ring-handmade-vs-cast.243222/).

 

[LetLoveRule]

I have talked to one jeweller that's also a designer and I didn't feel comfortable with her. She actually had the nerve to tell me to settle down (after I told her in detail what I want) clearly not PS material

The one local jeweller that I do feel comfortable with and many others have vouched for is the kind of jeweller that doesn't design but rather makes exactly what you tell him to (handmade).

In short.. I have to agree with you
(and besides, I've got you guys helping me with the design! What more could a girl ask for? )

Funny thing, I went to a semi local jeweller today that I haven't been to before. They do both handmade and cast from CAD and for the first time I felt like I have a connection with them and wasn't "too much" they encouraged me rather than bring me down and weren't annoyed that I asked lots of questions or that I'm a perfectionist.

They quoted 2500 for CAD & cast and will send a quote for handmade early next week. Both can be done but handmade will take quite a bit more time they reckon (obviously).

I still don't understand how the first jeweller I went to can quote 2000 for fully handmade though.

 

[LetLoveRule]

A bezel is a piece of metal that folds over the girdle.
To achieve a perimeter of metal around the girdle without a bezel folded over, you could use a "prong in bezel setting" where it is basically a bezel width of metal. But, the top edge does not fold over. The vertical part of the bezel is like a little fence outside the girdle and the girdle hovers just over the part that is under the stone. So, its like a thin metal halo of metal with no diamonds. . So, it looks like this. For a radiant, you'd want this shaped to show the cut-corners.
https://www.borsheims.com/artcarved...g-set-ring-mounting-with-diamond-gallery-halo

Not the right shape or style, but you can see in this example from CVB that you can still have a decorative gallery.

Thank you, that's super helpful

I don't like the look of a bezel AND claws. One or the other would be good.

Just a bezel like this I wouldn't mind (although as thin as possible):


I like the idea of an under rail but they're usually placed below the girdle, so that doesn't help avoid chipping. I thought of an in between solution, like an under rail around the girdle so it semi looks like a bezel? Haven't been able to find an example of this though.

 

[LetLoveRule]

It's been a bit quiet here lately.. Anyone want to respond to my last few posts?

@rockysalamander @sledge @Matthews1127

 

[LetLoveRule]

I have received a quote for fully handmade (hand forged) engagement ring $3800 vs $2500 for cast (handmade prongs will be an extra $300-500).

I have also received a quote for the wedding band, $2800 handmade or $2600 cast with 38x 2 pointers. I'm not sure which size diamonds I should go with, definitely smaller than 3 pointers but maybe even smaller than 2 pointers. Opinions?

 

[Matthews1127]

I have received a quote for fully handmade (hand forged) engagement ring $3800 vs $2500 for cast (handmade prongs will be an extra $300-500).

I have also received a quote for the wedding band, $2800 handmade or $2600 cast with 38x 2 pointers. I'm not sure which size diamonds I should go with, definitely smaller than 3 pointers but maybe even smaller than 2 pointers. Opinions?

I like the look of 2 pointers, but you have to decide what your preference is.

Here are some examples of basket set styles:

With diamonds on the basket:



Without diamonds on the basket, with peek-a-boo Sapphire:

 

[rockysalamander]

Sorry. Will try to look later.

 

[LetLoveRule]

I like the look of 2 pointers, but you have to decide what your preference is.

Thanks for the photos I like the second one but without the sapphire.

The ring from the photos is approx. 0.0125, it's hard to say from the photos if that's a good size because my ER will be different. I feel like 2 pointers make sense, otherwise it'll be too much of a difference with the 3 pointers (although since there are 2 bands, I hope it won't be "too much"). I want the same bead set rounds as my ER so it'll look different than the photos as well.

I starting to warm up to the idea of CADs so I can visualise before the rings are made. Plus it'll be symmetrical when cast, which is more important now with the filigree. I just don't know if it'll be just as "sturdy" as handmade.

 

[LetLoveRule]

I felt like something was still off with the scrolls and started searching for more inspiration in the last few days. I thought I should try drawing rather than Photoshop, so I made these 2 designs that I really like (I'm a lot better with computers so I cheated a little bit by printing the "base design", ie the ring and diamonds )

I like the look of the second one but the first one is more doable (the scrolls on the side can be attached to the band just below it) and symmetrical as it's the same scroll x 3 in different sizes per side.



I'm still leaning towards handmade although I think that CAD/cast definitely has its advantages like being able to see the design in 3D.

Also think I should add a bezel to protect the girdle. I'm actually thinking that it will make it look whole because of the bezelled princess cuts.

 

[LetLoveRule]

As far as your ring design goes, I think the thing that still bugs me is you have curvy lines with the filigree on both sides and even the prongs have a curvy soft flow to them. Then that princess cut is like BAM! I'm here with all my perfect sharp & hard lines.

To some degree yes, but I think it's not really an issue as there will be 2 more princess cuts in the shank and the rectangle radiant has sharp lines too. Especially with the bezel and the new scrolls from the hand drawn designs, I feel like it's looking better?

 

[LetLoveRule]

Can you somehow make it where the prongs extend down to form part of the princess cut? And then for the other sides of the princess extend up to start the filigree? It would change things a little but look more connected, curvy and have better flow IMO.

Another small detail I kind of like is the blue lines I show extending up to form the sides of the princess cut almost looks like a heart. Could you utilize a rose gold to make that filigree stand out so the heart is more obvious?

Small details overall, but maybe that is what is missing?

I feel like that's going to look good on the Photoshop design but it wouldn't work with an actual ring in my size. Even though I've made the design in the right scale now, my ring will still only be 15.7mm so it will look very different from an enlarged version on a screen.

I like how we have the same thoughts sometimes I noticed the "heart" shape too and have made it more visible with the sketches.

My partner just suggested to use two tone gold too and it crossed my mind when he said he wants a yellow gold band. I don't wear any yellow or rose gold and I'm not sure if I'd like it but I'll try and visualise to see if I can get used to the idea.

 

[sledge]

Also think I should add a bezel to protect the girdle. I'm actually thinking that it will make it look whole because of the bezelled princess cuts.

I hadn't saw this design until now but it's my favorite of all the ones you've done. The scrolls feel right and I like how it closes on the sides where the main ring continues. The bezel.protection looks right too.

I understand your concern with yellow or rose gold. I'm not a fan of either, but felt the heart was a unique touch. I will say when I think of yellow gold I always think of polished bright yellow gold.

What if you made the "heart scrolls" either brushed yellow gold or even brushed platinum/brushed WG so it subtly stands out?

 

[LetLoveRule]

I hadn't saw this design until now but it's my favorite of all the ones you've done. The scrolls feel right and I like how it closes on the sides where the main ring continues. The bezel.protection looks right too

It feels right to me as well what I also really like is that this isn't partly inspired by or copied from an existing design (that kept bugging me). Silly maybe but important to me.

Thank you for your help!

Now I have to continue with the top/side view..

 

[LetLoveRule]

I understand your concern with yellow or rose gold. I'm not a fan of either, but felt the heart was a unique touch. I will say when I think of yellow gold I always think of polished bright yellow gold.

What if you made the "heart scrolls" either brushed yellow gold or even brushed platinum/brushed WG so it subtly stands out?

I guess that if I go with handmade that could be an option. Can you show me a photo of what you have in mind? I wonder if it will be visible when the ring is done as it's not too big from the profile view

 

[LetLoveRule]

The bezel.protection looks right too

I have to translate this design to Photoshop and raise the shank to the bezel. That will create more room for the scrolls without making the setting higher.