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Eye Clean SI1 in a 4+ carat RB, possible?

Thanks Anne- will do.

I am just a little worried due to the fact I won't be able to see the stone before it is set.
I think to save money it is probably worth the risk.
 
mif_ said:
Thanks Annie- will do.

I am just a little worried due to the fact I won't be able to see the stone before it is set.
I think to save money it is probably worth the risk.
Click to expand...
User an appraiser as well - its a no brainer - for the cost vs the piece of mind.
 
Sorry for the naivety- would I have them go and see the stone or have it sent to them?

Also how would I go about finding one?

Thanks
 
If I were in your situation I'd have Jonathan at Good Old Gold find stones for you. If there are any to look at, he can call them in and take close up photos, xrays, and videos for you. He will also be honest about the eye clean issue. He is in NY, and I am sure he has sent stones to Leon before.
 
mif- I think it's very important for you to find a way to look at seom stones first hand.
As far as the SI issue- I say, it's a great idea to include SI1 and even Si2 in your search.
Not to say you will find one that satisfies you- but you just might.
There's been mention of "problems" with SI stones.
Without quesiton, careful visual inspection by a professional is crucial- however there are many SI and even I1 stones with imperfectiopns that pose no durability concerns whatsoever- and also may have the imperfecitons dispersed and located in places that do imperceptable damage to the overall brilliance of the stone.

In terms of the cut grade- again, it's important for you to see some stones to get the idea what you're looking at.
you may very well find a VG cut grade which was downgraded from EX for reasons virtually invisible- certainly there are stones with minor polish defects that have no durability issues, and require strong magnification to see.


bean said:
I am confused by this... I have a 3.18 I si2 that is eye clean... Even though I KNOW where the inclusions are I can not see them unless I put the stone much much closer to my eyes. Also due to the cut of the stone (and especially when it's clean... It is a huge disco ball of light!) I think it makes it very hard to see anything.

But my question is.. And I think this is relevant to the thread... Ok take a one carat diamond that is an i1. Take those same inclusions- exactly the same size and shape and put them in a 4 carat diamond- is it an i1? Are inclusions relative??? I guess why I'm asking is that in a smaller stone with the inclusions closer together the inclusion to clean-part-of-the-diamond ratio is closer together but when you put them in a larger stone there is more "clean part of the diamond" so the ratio difference is much larger..... So if a 1 carat si1 can be eye clean.. Why can't a 4 carat si1?????
Click to expand...

Great question Bean.
It's kind of a sliding scale, with regards to imperfection grading and size of stone.
That is to say: a VVS1 sized imperfection is very much the same no matter what the size of stone.
When it comes to VS and SI grades, I do believe the size of the stone comes into play, in GIA's methodology.
Remember, clarity grading is cumulative.
That is to say, a diamond with 2 VS2 sized imperfections may very well be graded SI1.
Maybe 4 of these VS2 sized imperfections will yield an SI2 in a 4.00, when 3 imperfections this size might get SI2 in a .75ct..
 
diamondseeker2006 said:
If I were in your situation I'd have Jonathan at Good Old Gold find stones for you. If there are any to look at, he can call them in and take close up photos, xrays, and videos for you. He will also be honest about the eye clean issue. He is in NY, and I am sure he has sent stones to Leon before.
Click to expand...

yeah I'm not sure Leon usually sources rounds for people so going with another vendor might be your best bet.
 
Rockdiamond said:
mif- I think it's very important for you to find a way to look at seom stones first hand.
As far as the SI issue- I say, it's a great idea to include SI1 and even Si2 in your search.
Not to say you will find one that satisfies you- but you just might.
There's been mention of "problems" with SI stones.
Without quesiton, careful visual inspection by a professional is crucial- however there are many SI and even I1 stones with imperfectiopns that pose no durability concerns whatsoever- and also may have the imperfecitons dispersed and located in places that do imperceptable damage to the overall brilliance of the stone.

In terms of the cut grade- again, it's important for you to see some stones to get the idea what you're looking at.
you may very well find a VG cut grade which was downgraded from EX for reasons virtually invisible- certainly there are stones with minor polish defects that have no durability issues, and require strong magnification to see.


.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice. Currently I have only seen whole rings not loose stones at E VS1 & F SI1.
I will have to try and make an appointment to see some stones where I live even though I just don't know I could justify purchasing there due to the mark up.
 
mif_ said:
Sorry for the naivety- would I have them go and see the stone or have it sent to them?

Also how would I go about finding one?

Thanks
Click to expand...
Find one using the top tab <Resources> Appraisers. There are some listed there who frequently post helpful stuff on Pricescope on the right hand side. I highly recomend them.
They can also do an appraisal after the ring is made and set, and confirm there was no damage (unlikely).

You need not be present - the work can be done by phone, but if one is near you then go for it.
Not all vendors are diamond experts.
 
I'm going to be the voice of dissent here.

While I understand you want a large stone, with your budget I'd stick to an F, VS clarity one.

You have to remember, that everyone's vision is different. Even if you can't see the inclusion in an SI stone, chances are someone else will in a 4ct. That may not matter to you, but if I were spending this much money on a diamond, I'd want it to be totally eyeclean, to myself, my spouse, my family, friends, everyone. And if it is eyeclean, I'd asky myself how? What else is wrong with it? Clouds causing issues, feathers, etc.

Also color. The larger you go the easier it is to see. I can spot color in 1ct stone at I and below and I am not at all color sensitive.
Again, if you want a a very white diamond an H won't do it at 4ct and above no matter what. You will be able to see some tint in certain lighting.

Regarding cut. It's going to be very difficult to find a super ideal in that size. I wouldn't worry too much and H&A's but would work with someone who sells ideals and understands what to look for in a well cut stone.

In other words, I'd rather have a 3.50ct colorless VSS,VS clarity stone, then a 4ct plus with a lower color and SI clarity.

You're spending a ton of money on a diamond, why not have the best of both worlds? A large stone with top color and clarity?
 
elle_chris said:
I'm going to be the voice of dissent here.

While I understand you want a large stone, with your budget I'd stick to an F, VS clarity one.

You have to remember, that everyone's vision is different. Even if you can't see the inclusion in an SI stone, chances are someone else will in a 4ct. That may not matter to you, but if I were spending this much money on a diamond, I'd want it to be totally eyeclean, to myself, my spouse, my family, friends, everyone. And if it is eyeclean, I'd asky myself how? What else is wrong with it? Clouds causing issues, feathers, etc.

Also color. The larger you go the easier it is to see. I can spot color in 1ct stone at I and below and I am not at all color sensitive.
Again, if you want a a very white diamond an H won't do it at 4ct and above no matter what. You will be able to see some tint in certain lighting.

Regarding cut. It's going to be very difficult to find a super ideal in that size. I wouldn't worry too much and H&A's but would work with someone who sells ideals and understands what to look for in a well cut stone.

In other words, I'd rather have a 3.50ct colorless VSS,VS clarity stone, then a 4ct plus with a lower color and SI clarity.

You're spending a ton of money on a diamond, why not have the best of both worlds? A large stone with top color and clarity?
Click to expand...

I actually agree about all of this. Drop size a weensy bit and stick with VS clarity. I might be ok with G color personally, but hae not seen stones so large so cannot say. Mif have you compared in person a 4ct to a 3.5ct to get a feel for the difference in size? I think that for your budget, you should get a diamond that is *perfect* in every respect when it comes to cut (H&A not necessary), clarity and color. Size is then determined by budget. If you plan on a halo setting anyways, the size differences will be less noticable remember, as the exta 2mm+ in diameter makes the difference in carat a smaller overall percentage of the rings footprint on your hand.
 
Dreamer_D said:
elle_chris said:
I'm going to be the voice of dissent here.

While I understand you want a large stone, with your budget I'd stick to an F, VS clarity one.

You have to remember, that everyone's vision is different. Even if you can't see the inclusion in an SI stone, chances are someone else will in a 4ct. That may not matter to you, but if I were spending this much money on a diamond, I'd want it to be totally eyeclean, to myself, my spouse, my family, friends, everyone. And if it is eyeclean, I'd asky myself how? What else is wrong with it? Clouds causing issues, feathers, etc.

Also color. The larger you go the easier it is to see. I can spot color in 1ct stone at I and below and I am not at all color sensitive.
Again, if you want a a very white diamond an H won't do it at 4ct and above no matter what. You will be able to see some tint in certain lighting.

Regarding cut. It's going to be very difficult to find a super ideal in that size. I wouldn't worry too much and H&A's but would work with someone who sells ideals and understands what to look for in a well cut stone.

In other words, I'd rather have a 3.50ct colorless VSS,VS clarity stone, then a 4ct plus with a lower color and SI clarity.

You're spending a ton of money on a diamond, why not have the best of both worlds? A large stone with top color and clarity?
Click to expand...

I actually agree about all of this. Drop size a weensy bit and stick with VS clarity. I might be ok with G color personally, but hae not seen stones so large so cannot say. Mif have you compared in person a 4ct to a 3.5ct to get a feel for the difference in size? I think that for your budget, you should get a diamond that is *perfect* in every respect when it comes to cut (H&A not necessary), clarity and color. Size is then determined by budget. If you plan on a halo setting anyways, the size differences will be less noticable remember, as the exta 2mm+ in diameter makes the difference in carat a smaller overall percentage of the rings footprint on your hand.
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the advice. I just don't feel like I want to drop the ct. I have compared a 3.5ct to a 4ct. My mother has a 3.5 G colour RB, she has been looking with me and I have worn hers. Hers is so bright and colourless that I feel that G would probably be ok. My partner is keen on a 4ct as am I. I imagine we may need to up the budget a little bit. I wasn't going to have a halo so I wanted to stick to around 4ct.

I guess it will also depend on whether or not I notice the difference that much when I go and look at more stones. I think the lesson I have learnt here is hands on experience is invaluable.


Thanks again everyone!
 
mif_ said:
Dreamer_D said:
elle_chris said:
I'm going to be the voice of dissent here.

While I understand you want a large stone, with your budget I'd stick to an F, VS clarity one.

You have to remember, that everyone's vision is different. Even if you can't see the inclusion in an SI stone, chances are someone else will in a 4ct. That may not matter to you, but if I were spending this much money on a diamond, I'd want it to be totally eyeclean, to myself, my spouse, my family, friends, everyone. And if it is eyeclean, I'd asky myself how? What else is wrong with it? Clouds causing issues, feathers, etc.

Also color. The larger you go the easier it is to see. I can spot color in 1ct stone at I and below and I am not at all color sensitive.
Again, if you want a a very white diamond an H won't do it at 4ct and above no matter what. You will be able to see some tint in certain lighting.

Regarding cut. It's going to be very difficult to find a super ideal in that size. I wouldn't worry too much and H&A's but would work with someone who sells ideals and understands what to look for in a well cut stone.

In other words, I'd rather have a 3.50ct colorless VSS,VS clarity stone, then a 4ct plus with a lower color and SI clarity.

You're spending a ton of money on a diamond, why not have the best of both worlds? A large stone with top color and clarity?
Click to expand...

I actually agree about all of this. Drop size a weensy bit and stick with VS clarity. I might be ok with G color personally, but hae not seen stones so large so cannot say. Mif have you compared in person a 4ct to a 3.5ct to get a feel for the difference in size? I think that for your budget, you should get a diamond that is *perfect* in every respect when it comes to cut (H&A not necessary), clarity and color. Size is then determined by budget. If you plan on a halo setting anyways, the size differences will be less noticable remember, as the exta 2mm+ in diameter makes the difference in carat a smaller overall percentage of the rings footprint on your hand.
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the advice. I just don't feel like I want to drop the ct. I have compared a 3.5ct to a 4ct. My mother has a 3.5 G colour RB, she has been looking with me and I have worn hers. Hers is so bright and colourless that I feel that G would probably be ok. My partner is keen on a 4ct as am I. I imagine we may need to up the budget a little bit. I wasn't going to have a halo so I wanted to stick to around 4ct.

I guess it will also depend on whether or not I notice the difference that much when I go and look at more stones. I think the lesson I have learnt here is hands on experience is invaluable.


Thanks again everyone!
Click to expand...
Add some strong blue fluoro in a G or H and you will be laughing all the way to the bank!
 
Yep that's what I was hoping to do! My mothers 3.5 has strong fluro and its incredible. It seems I have a search on my hands!
I have a fair amount of time though I think. :-)
 
Yes, I am using HCA and searched the pricescope search and nothing came up. I meant other than HCA analysis. Is there anything else that I should be looking out for when picking stones.
 
mif_ said:
Can anyone give me advice on this stone? What should I be seeing here that doesn't make it a good purchase?

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?filter_id=0&track=bbt#diamonds_pid=LD01818232
Click to expand...

Which one is it, mif? The link goes back to the search results, with tons of stones and not just the one.

Whilst I hear what the others are saying abt going smaller, I have to say I agree with you abt sticking to your choice of 4ct (speaking from one size-wh%%%...and all, LOL) and G colour. G is plenty plenty white. I've seen a 4ct+ H and am actually ok with that too (and there I was thinking I was quite colour-sensitive, LOL!! :wink2: :tongue:).

Incidentally, I've also seen a 5ct with strong blue fluor and it was BEAAAAUUUTIFUL!! No milkiness, no oilyness, just gorgeously white!! (only problem was it wasn't the shape I'm after). Mind you though, you'd have to see each stone one a case-to-case basis.

Good luck. I can't wait to see what you end up with! Please post plenty of pics for us bling-hungry PS'ers!! ;)
 
mif_ said:
Yes, I am using HCA and searched the pricescope search and nothing came up. I meant other than HCA analysis. Is there anything else that I should be looking out for when picking stones.
Click to expand...
Do a search all and do not use HCA (unless you are searching in house stones) because if the vendor has not loaded the data - then none come up.
There are 4 hundred there on the search below (I left in GIA and AGS).
But you may need to go get the data of reports and enter it into HCA.
https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-...l_region=07&type_search=1&all=all&h_other=off
 
Also, Mif, I seem to recall that your budget is $80-$100k? To echo what everyone else has been saying -- you must see it in person before making such a large investment!

There are two ways to do this:

Send finalists to a local appraiser and review them prior to purchase. If you live outside the US (or outside the country in which your vendor is located), this may be problematic. I haven't investigated how customs work in this case. Since the finalists will be shipped with an astronomical insurance value (if you are viewing 3 finalists each worth $100k = $300k in insured value!) may set off red flags at customs. Anyone in the trade know how this works?

Fly to NYC or where ever your vendor is located and schedule an office visit. I've been to both GOG and ERD (and I'm sure most other vendors will have this equipment) -- and they have 70x microscopes, ASET, Idealscopes, etc that you can use to examine the diamond in more detail. Yes, this will eat into your diamond budget -- but just a little. If you are traveling within the US, it will probably be no more than $1500 for travel -- internationally, budget perhaps $5k for travel, depending on where you are.

For a $100k diamond, I think most vendors will work with you (very closely and provide good service) to find exactly what you want. Why not reach out to a few via phone and see which vendors seem to be responsive? Also, Garry will not say this because he is a nice guy -- but he is a vendor located in Australia (which may be closer to you than the US). I don't see online inventory, but you can email him through his website to see what he has.

Oh, and I did a quick search and found these (all virtual diamonds, can be called in by other vendors)
4.17 ct, H, VS2, HCA = 1.5: http://www.eternitydiamonds.com/diamond_detail.php?id=373004
4.24 ct, H, VS2 (no cert online, so no HCA): http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=82978672
There were many more in your budget just over 4 cts (I made the specs more restrictive than what you had before, but an H VS2 is definitely possible in terms of quality): http://tiny.cc/e2nx215pz6
 
If I were you I would try my best to go and try on stones that are 3.5ct and 4ct to make sure that the size is noticable to my eye and worth either paying more or having a tough hunt to find my stone. Just so you have all the data, ya know?

And definitely go for flour, it will bring the price down and since you like the look, woop woop!
 
Sorry, you want G or better and I posted H's before. =(

There is one SB listed, but it's 3.99 carats, E VS2, and has an HCA of ... 4. Bah.
 
antelope1 said:
Also, Mif, I seem to recall that your budget is $80-$100k? To echo what everyone else has been saying -- you must see it in person before making such a large investment!

There are two ways to do this:

Send finalists to a local appraiser and review them prior to purchase. If you live outside the US (or outside the country in which your vendor is located), this may be problematic. I haven't investigated how customs work in this case. Since the finalists will be shipped with an astronomical insurance value (if you are viewing 3 finalists each worth $100k = $300k in insured value!) may set off red flags at customs. Anyone in the trade know how this works?

Fly to NYC or where ever your vendor is located and schedule an office visit. I've been to both GOG and ERD (and I'm sure most other vendors will have this equipment) -- and they have 70x microscopes, ASET, Idealscopes, etc that you can use to examine the diamond in more detail. Yes, this will eat into your diamond budget -- but just a little. If you are traveling within the US, it will probably be no more than $1500 for travel -- internationally, budget perhaps $5k for travel, depending on where you are.

For a $100k diamond, I think most vendors will work with you (very closely and provide good service) to find exactly what you want. Why not reach out to a few via phone and see which vendors seem to be responsive? Also, Garry will not say this because he is a nice guy -- but he is a vendor located in Australia (which may be closer to you than the US). I don't see online inventory, but you can email him through his website to see what he has.

Oh, and I did a quick search and found these (all virtual diamonds, can be called in by other vendors)
4.17 ct, H, VS2, HCA = 1.5: http://www.eternitydiamonds.com/diamond_detail.php?id=373004
4.24 ct, H, VS2 (no cert online, so no HCA): http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=82978672
There were many more in your budget just over 4 cts (I made the specs more restrictive than what you had before, but an H VS2 is definitely possible in terms of quality): http://tiny.cc/e2nx215pz6
Click to expand...

Budget is now set at about $115,000 including the setting (I want simple though so hoping it won't be too expensive). Oh I am in Australia so that would be perfect! H's with Fluro i'd be happy with.

Thanks for the links and advice everyone. This is so unbelievably helpful. I spoke to my partner and he said for me to start going to look at stones in person because I think with these constraints it might take a while to find the perfect stone. I feel like I am gathering the knowledge I need to find exactly what I am looking for if it is out there.

Now I just need to work out where to go in Sydney, Australia.
 
From what I have read you will save a lot buying in the US, so given the importance of this purchase, you might consider sourcing the stones in the US and having the winners sent to an appraiser and then flying over to pick the best one! A few thousand on a flight is such a small percentage of the total amount spent that it could be well worth it.

Or you can call Garry H, he has a jewelry store in Australia even though he cannot advettise the fact to you himself :cheeky: If I would trust anyone to help pick a winner it would most likely be him.
 
Dreamer_D could you tell me the name of Garry's store?

Thanks!
 
Goodness, that Blue Nile triple excellent H VS1 with strong blue floro sounds like a real possibility! We can be overly picky around here on cut, but I think a stone that size should be looked at to see if it meets your standards. Someone must have liked it to give it excellent for cut even though it isn't within the typical measurements for an H&A stone. I really like the idea of going to G color or H with floro and get VS clarity. In addition, we have seen Brian Gavin do some minor recutting to improve an already well cut stone. Although you wouldn't want to go below 4 cts. on that particular stone, of course. It sounds like it would work best for you to make a trip to NYC and see all the available options.
 
Do you possibly have a link to that stone on bluenile?

I have been in touch with perry and I think that might be the way to go. I will definitely be getting an independant appraiser involved as Garry suggested. I would have loved to have been able to see the stone before purchase but I'm not sure at this stage I will be able to - maybe only through photographs and videos. The money ill save might make up for that aspect at least I hope!
 
mif, quick question - does your budget include provision for GST upon arrival in Australia? If not, that could take a significant amount out of it. I recommend searching for and reading the very helpful AUSFTA threads on this forum if you do plan to purchase from an overseas vendor. It could save you thousands.

Aside from Gary Holloway, have you tried contacting Jogia Diamonds in Australia? I purchased my diamond from the US (because of the cost saving and also because I couldn't find what I wanted here), but Jogia have been mentioned as a reputable Australian vendor on these forums. Best of luck with your search!
 
No we hadn't taken that into consideration. Thanks for that information :-) shall need to look into it.
 
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