FI threw the cost of my ring in my face

[ladykemma]

well, wouldn't you rather be 30 and living in a paid for house and debt free, with 50,000 emergency funds in the money market account and interest building retirement accounts earning compounding interest.

if you do what we are saying the good times will be THEN, not now. at 23 you are supposed to struggle.

what would you say if we encouraged you to stay in parents house for two more years and wipe out those loans completely?

AND... why are you paying your parent's bills? are they able bodied? (edited - just went and read your posts, your dad, who can't pay his bills, bought your mom a new ring for valentines day? things that make you go hmmmmm......)

and you, up to your eyeballs in debt, are seeking inside out diamond hoops, the expensive ones. hmmmmm.

what are your priorities?

 

[DiamondSmitten]

my father provides podiatric medical treatment for the mostly impovershed (Think Camden, NJ), that was until he was hit by an UNinsured driver leaving him unable to practice for months and no other income. MY mother was an aid in a school for cerebral palsey children until herniated discs in her back prevented her from lifting and caring for the children so she was fired last May and denied unemployment and disability due to loop holes in the system in NJ. She began working for my dad until a month ago when the office he practiced in was shut down do to repairs the landlord refused to make and he needed to find a new building and start over after again being out of business except for housecalls he provided. SO you see, life isnt black and white and I will continue to help them and my teenage brothers as long as they need me too. Since helping them still isnt quite the cost of running our own home, we still can save each month. I AGREE that the entertainment system/center isnt the best way to spend 5000 dollars, but I don''t think many of you know nearly enough to give the type of advice that you have given either...

 

[DiamondSmitten]

The hoops I am seeking are 200, not the 1500-3000 dollar ones others posted about and they are a belated Masters Graduation gift from an aunt who wants me to have something I WON"T buy myself...... and the ring was 30 dollars a month for 5 months that I helped him buy because she has been so devastated about life and needed SOMETHING for their 25th anniversary....

 

[DiamondSmitten]

Date: 2/25/2007 10:01:25 PM
Author: ladykemma
well, wouldn''t you rather be 30 and living in a paid for house and debt free, with 50,000 emergency funds in the money market account and interest building retirement accounts earning compounding interest.

if you do what we are saying the good times will be THEN, not now. at 23 you are supposed to struggle.

what would you say if we encouraged you to stay in parents house for two more years and wipe out those loans completely?

AND... why are you paying your parent''s bills? are they able bodied? (edited - just went and read your posts, your dad, who can''t pay his bills, bought your mom a new ring for valentines day? things that make you go hmmmmm......)

and you, up to your eyeballs in debt, are seeking inside out diamond hoops, the expensive ones. hmmmmm.

what are your priorities?

You must be famous for posting ASSUMING you know all the details..... you know what they say about assuming...

 

[little miss sunshine]

Diamond Smitten --

I am sorry to hear about your family''s recent hardships, especially after both your parents have devoted their lives to helping others. I can relate to your original post... Although I am not yet engaged (in the ring shopping stage), my bf occasionally makes comments about "having" to save his money for my ring when I bring up the topic of buying things/taking a trip/etc. Of course, I always take these remarks out of proportion also. I think - why does he need to word it like an obligation, and I feel like I am acting spoiled/demanding... I am glad you talked to him and agreed not to interpret too much... Money is a touchy subject for us as well and I think makes people say things they don''t really mean.

I also LOL''ed when I read the part about the TV bc while it may seem absolutely crazy and irresponsible for some people, I guess you could say "to each his own." I am in my early 20''s as well and I agree that there are certain splurges that you just need to indulge!

Wear your ring with pride and good luck with your savings for your home and entertainment center!!

 

[KimberlyH]

Advice can only be given based on what you share or don''t share.

That being said, I admire your willingness to help your family. But I still think that the amount of money being spent to fulfill wants when there are clearly many needs that still remain (a house, wedding) isn''t reasonable. I am telling you the exact same thing I told a dear friend of mine whose then boyfriend was determined to purchase an e-ring of a certain carat weight while he was trying to pay off huge students loans and their financial status was less than secure. He bought her the ring he deemed appropriate, they''ve been married for three years, have a child and are still in a huge financial prediciment. The strain on their relationship due to their different financiial priorities is painfully obviouats and very difficult to witness. My advice was only given in hopes that you wouldn''t end up in similar circumstances, which, from what you have described, takes little stretch of the imagination.

Good luck to you.

 

[aussiegirl23]

this is making me think of Grace (if I remember the previous poster's name correctly).

some people don't really want advice... let's just leave the financial advice out of it - it's clearly not sinking in

About your ring seeming different now? I think it entirely reasonable that your fiance wants something special for "him." unless he is a very special kind of guy, he probably doesn't get much day to day excitement out of your ring. even if it symbolizes your commitment to marriage, it is just a rock, and to him, probably a bit silly. so don't jump all over him about wanting somehting electronic as a gift. he will get a lot of pleasure out of it, just like you with your ring. try not to let his perhaps offhand comment about the price of your ring damage your enjoyment of it. we all say things we don't mean whe we're upset and this sounds like one of those times. he loves you, he wants to marry you, but he wants stuff for himself too.

REALLY not trying to offend you. period.

Aussie : p

 

[gail013]

I can totally understand after how hard you have obviously worked that both of you do deserve some nice things for yourself. I can see that your FI is also taking on alot with your family''s situation and maybe some of the stress of that caused him to say something hurtful that he really didn''t mean about your ring. I do hope things get better for your family soon.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 2/25/2007 6:21:23 PM
Author: TravelingGal

I think we women have to get over it...a lot of men don''t care about the ring, nor place such emotional value on jewelry like we do. Anyone who thinks otherwise is wanting a man to think like a woman, IMO. I think plenty of men would love to get engaged and married without having to ever go through the ring buying process. But we women love the tradition so they oblige us and spend thousands.

You ask: HOW can he compare a TV which will be dated in a few years and not worth anything as he wil want to replace it with whatever is newer and cooler to the ring he PROPOSED MARRIAGE with?'' Well, he just isn''t thinking that way. He is thinking ring cost X and makes you happy...why shouldn''t he be able to spend X on the entertainment center that would make him happy? At the end of the day, plenty of men just seen your ring as simply that...a ring. Jewelry. They don''t get it, just like we don''t get why they love their entertainment centers. But they drool over these things like we drool over settings. They look lovingly at their entertainment centers. Fondle them. Practically wear the remote like we wear our rings!

You said to feel free to say if we think you''re overreacting. OK, I think you''re overreacting. To the point where you feel like your ring is tainted just because he really wants to buy that entertainment center?

I echo everything TG said here.....as usual, she''s hit the nail on the head.

Gals, the ring is sentimental to US....not to them. (And, not so sentimental to some of us either, as witnessed by ease of upgrade).

The lack of sentimentality isn''t a reflection of how he feels toward you. It just means he''s not all weepy and woman-like about a piece of jewelry. That''s all.

 

[Mara]

i think yes you are overreacting about what he said. as others have pointed out, he's a guy. he doesn't think like girls do. my husband mentions sometimes about how i got an expensive ring for engagement and he didn't. i got him a diamond in his ring for wedding but it cost like 1/15 of my ring. whenever he says something like 'oh look at your finger, that's my motorcycle there'..i just laugh. i am really not a sensitive person either...so i don't take offense easily or get upset easily...i would say that you should just take a step back and not view it as him taking a DIG at you...but he does have a valid point from boy perspective. he bought you a really expensive ring, so why SHOULDN'T he have something nice too? i can totally see that perspective....now whether or not it's the CORRECT perspective in this particular situation is another issue but that's objective...as others have pointed out you guys are living with your parents, saving for a house, a $5-6k entertainment unit at this point as a priority does seem a bit funny, but maybe that's what HE needs to mentally want to feel like he's 'getting something out of it'...i would actually suggest that you guys seek pre-marital counseling to help each other understand the other better and also maybe to get your priorities mapped out with a third party so that it won't be quite so emotional and potentially volatile. it can only help for the future. good luck.

 

[Kaleigh]

Pre marital counseling sounds like a wise thing to seek out. You have to understand that when you post your situtation, and no one here knows you or your situation, they are going to tell you like it is. That''s what I love about this site. You get great advice. If you don''t like it, take it with a grain of salt. But most times, people here are well meaning, and are spot on.

I hope all works out for you. I applaud you for helping out with your siblings!!! Just Xnay on the spending.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/25/2007 5:06:47 PM
Author: DiamondSmitten
the student loans =~400 a month for 35 years, if we were to say give 5000 for that instead of the TV its taken off the LAST 5000 we would owe 30 years form now and doesn''t ease the finances now so its def not the way to go for that.

I''d live like a pauper with a plain gold band and a 20" tv on a milk crate and no cable to get that dang debt paid off - it''s a monkey on your back!!! 35 years to pay it off? insane!! The trick is to put 5k on it now and then 5 k on it next year and within 7 years you''ve got an additional 400 a month and NO MORE DEBT!!!

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/25/2007 8:26:44 PM
Author: ladykemma
reality check: my hubby and i make a combined total of 150,000 a year, no debt, house is paid for. retirement contributions are maxed. we can''t afford nor would we ever consider a 6000 dollar tv. we are saving for cash for a new toyota truck at the moment. we have two small tvs, both rather old.

while I realize different strokes for different folks, quite simply you can''t afford it. instead i would hammer at the student debt, [possibly] while living under your parents roof. if you worked real hard you could have that paid for in three years.

you can afford a 120 dollar dvd /tv combo from walmart. if dave ramsay were here he''d tell you to have a garage sale and sell everything of value to get out of debt.

let''s do the suze orman check: (paraphrased -apologies to suze)

do you have six months of emergency savings
are you working
do you have any debt
are you maxing out retirement
then you can afford it.

check out also Dave Ramsay, Mary Hunt, and Jerrold Mundis for getting out of debt advice.

LOL I''m glad I''m not alone in thinking this!! I waited until we had money just kinda laying around before I blew the wad!! Much less guilt and a whole lot less stress that way! But you''re right - different strokes for different folks.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/25/2007 10:01:25 PM
Author: ladykemma
well, wouldn''t you rather be 30 and living in a paid for house and debt free, with 50,000 emergency funds in the money market account and interest building retirement accounts earning compounding interest.

if you do what we are saying the good times will be THEN, not now. at 23 you are supposed to struggle.

what would you say if we encouraged you to stay in parents house for two more years and wipe out those loans completely?

AND... why are you paying your parent''s bills? are they able bodied? (edited - just went and read your posts, your dad, who can''t pay his bills, bought your mom a new ring for valentines day? things that make you go hmmmmm......)

and you, up to your eyeballs in debt, are seeking inside out diamond hoops, the expensive ones. hmmmmm.

what are your priorities?

I agree with living and spending now.... BUT... two words: compound interest.

The earlier you get on it the better off you''ll be. Work to be AHEAD of the curve in paying it off... even if it is designed to bell curve with your career over 35! years... if you put that whole 15k that you make more next year against the debt you''ll have it paid off in a few years and then that money can go toward your retirement... and pretty soon you''re making 20k more 30k more 40k more and *that* is when you get to spend it hehehe Compound interest!

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/25/2007 10:40:55 PM
Author: DiamondSmitten
You must be famous for posting ASSUMING you know all the details..... you know what they say about assuming...

You know what they say about asking for advice on the internet....

Seriously though... no one here is trying to make your life miserable... and I hate to sound patronizing, but we all have our struggles and you learn from them and want to share your wisdom. Its free advice - you are under no obligation to take it. You can have whatever spending/saving habits you so desire. Everyone here loves diamonds... and my husband and I are complete technophiles. But I didn''t have a diamond ring at 23 and he didn''t have a 6k entertainment system. We got teased for having an ugly car with a different colored door... but we also didn''t have an expensive car payment and were not in debt. It has totally paid off. I hope your system works for you - truly. You have nothing, and I mean nothing, but my best wishes.

 

[firebirdgold]

DiamondSmitten, Are you sure the argument was about the ring and the tv setup? Sometimes when a couple argues about something, they''re really arguing about something else. Something that they either can''t quite define or don''t want to face. I''m not really putting this well because I''m tired but perhaps you see what I mean?
I don''t see this as an argument about money or finaces, but about the underlying relationship. Your reaction of not wanting to look at the ring or him was a little extreme if you take the argument totally at face value. Are there other things going on that make you feel uneasy?

I don''t know if there''s some sort of lurking problem in the relationship brought on by the stress of planning a wedding and living with your folks, or if you''re trapped in the female propaganda that there''s a coorelation between the engagment ring and how much he values the relationship. That one is an easy thing to fall into and something that can be a hard lesson to learn. When we were having ring budget issues last year I did feel like how important he saw the ring was somehow related to how important he saw me and our relationship.

It can be painful to break free of that belief, but it simply isn''t true. When it comes right down to it men only buy us an engagement ring because it''ll make us happy and because society says they should to ask us to marry them. It''s not the same sort of all-ecompasing symbol of the relationship to them as it is to us.

If my guy was acting like yours and bringing up the cost of the ring to get his way or justify a purchase, I''d be hurt too. I''d wonder if he resented having spent that money, or if maybe he was having doubts. But then I''m not in your shoes, so I''m just guessing here.

 

[budgetbride]

ok people, i think you''ve kicked the girl down enough...what ever decision she makes about her financial situation is hers...let her deal with it and it''s effects. i think she gave the background to help understand the story.

Back to the original post. yes, I think you are overreacting. Men don''t get certain things. To them it''s more about the here and now. Women become more emotional and think about everything that goes along with it. I doubt he meant what he said. Now if he says it AGAIN...then it''s time to talk

PS I''d also suggest price shopping...he may find his entertainment system for much cheaper and you guys can use the difference on something else.

 

[budgetbride]

like a bigger ring!

I''m just kidding. the mood was just too tense

 

[NYCsparkle]

i agree with mara. its a guy thing...tv''s electronics cars bikes....the list goes on...us girls

our sparklies and whenever a holiday or anniversary comes up most of us hint or outright ask for more

. i''m sure he didn''t mean to throw the ring in your face...talk to him and tell him how you feel.

 

[Jas12]

wow--intense thread...there are definetly a lot of issues at work here...you are still young and at 23 i remember wanting a lot of ''stuff'' as well to establish myself....now, at age 27, I recently spent around 10k on my engagement ring. I waited this long knowing i couldn''t justify doing so with student loans and a future ahead of me. FI and I bought our cars, home and paid my student loan prior to buying the ring....we are not completely debt free now, but we are secure and have the ''big, important'' purchases out of the way. I am not saying this is always the way to do things, but IMO i would start putting more cash toward that massive student loan you have and, if you must still buy the T.V. ,try to compromise with your FI--look for a system on sale, only pay cash for it so you do not have yet another payment (you seem to have many...all those "just 400/m" payments add up) or downsize (just a little). I would be extremely hurt if my FI brought the ring cost up in a fight, and upset if he thought a T.V was as important as a ring--however the two of us watch almost no T.V, so I am trying to imagine him wanting a new skidoo or ''toy'' of some sort as an engagement gift--i think i would just laugh it off and consider it ONLY if other major costs were very well managed.

I think there should be a balance b/w desire and responsibility...debt is (unfortunately) almost a given these days--i wouldn''t want to live my life stuck at home, never travelling or enjoying dinners out with friends etc. But i would also hate the stress of living on loans, barely meeting ends and maintaining a lifestyle beyond my means--as you mature hopefully you will find a balance that you and your FI can live with.

 

[winternight]

Well I think its really rude that your fiance is bringing up the cost of your engagement ring, especially around others. I''d be upset about that. It takes the fun out of things to have the cost thrown in your face. I would never want the cost of my ring mentioned around other people - that''s private.

As for your fiances I think that people are just trying to tell you their experiences and that everything doesn''t come all at once if you want to be financially secure. I''m sorry to hear about your parents but you must realize how much happier they''d be if they were financially secure right now? I think maybe you and your fiance are more spenders than savers - believe me I can relate, since I''m more of a spender than my fiance who is a great saver. I think maybe you just want to read some books on financial planning and think about your long term goals a little bit. I have to say that I''m always surprised by the amount of money people spend on their rings in terms of their income/financial situations.

Paying off your student loans quickly sometimes doesn''t make sense depending on your interest rate - I have government loans and am currently maxing out my 401k and putting some money in savings instead of paying off my student loans which are at a very low rate, maybe 3%, when I can earn 10% or so in an index fund right now. Of course this also has to do with time value of money calculations...In general though its good to pay down debt and have cash. Suze Orman is a good read for a basic primer in finance.

 

[winternight]

Date: 2/25/2007 8:26:44 PM
Author: ladykemma
reality check: my hubby and i make a combined total of 150,000 a year, no debt, house is paid for. retirement contributions are maxed. we can''t afford nor would we ever consider a 6000 dollar tv. we are saving for cash for a new toyota truck at the moment. we have two small tvs, both rather old.

while I realize different strokes for different folks, quite simply you can''t afford it. instead i would hammer at the student debt, [possibly] while living under your parents roof. if you worked real hard you could have that paid for in three years.

you can afford a 120 dollar dvd /tv combo from walmart. if dave ramsay were here he''d tell you to have a garage sale and sell everything of value to get out of debt.

let''s do the suze orman check: (paraphrased -apologies to suze)

do you have six months of emergency savings
are you working
do you have any debt
are you maxing out retirement
then you can afford it.

check out also Dave Ramsay, Mary Hunt, and Jerrold Mundis for getting out of debt advice.

This is really good advice. I think sometimes people don''t realize how six figures doesn''t mean you''re rich and blowing it on 6k entertainment centers. Congrats on paying off your home! That''s awesome!

We wouldn''t look at a 6k entertainment center either, we''re both attorneys earning six figures, frankly that''s alot of time at work for a depreciating asset.

 

[Mrs.soontobealfonzo]

DiamondSmitten

First off I would love to see some pics of the ring thats causing all this trouble lol. If you love your hunny and love to put a smile on his face, let him have the system. Trust me your going to love it, when my fiance moved in I was just so excited about his system. He has the works. HD is great and worth the money. When you watch movies on it. It feels like your there. Its an awesome investment. I guess im sold. You have your dream ring let him have his dream system. if our 70k in dept what''s a little 5k going to do. lol plus its not going to be all his. it will be yours also. Life is to short and do whats going to make you both happy. its all about compromise

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/26/2007 2:46:23 PM
Author: Mrs.soontobealfonzo
DiamondSmitten

First off I would love to see some pics of the ring thats causing all this trouble lol. If you love your hunny and love to put a smile on his face, let him have the system. Trust me your going to love it, when my fiance moved in I was just so excited about his system. He has the works. HD is great and worth the money. When you watch movies on it. It feels like your there. Its an awesome investment. I guess im sold. You have your dream ring let him have his dream system. if our 70k in dept what''s a little 5k going to do. lol plus its not going to be all his. it will be yours also. Life is to short and do whats going to make you both happy. its all about compromise

OK, I wasn''t going to address the entire debt issue, but your ignorant statement made me sit up and notice. Just to be sure I am reading this right, I think you are saying "If you''re 70K in debt, what more is 5K?" If you are not saying this, I apologize. If you are....

That is absolutely a whacked out mentality. So then her debt becomes 75K. AH well. 75K. That''s too bad. Might as well buy a few LV purses. What harm will another couple grand do? Gotta live right? Life is short, so who cares if the debt is now at 150K? File bankrupcty. It''s all good. Taxpayers will pick it up the tab.

Honey, life is too short to wallow in debt. For those of us who are debt free, we can tell you that life is MUCH more enjoyable that way.

 

[janinegirly]

i have to say first that i haven''t read all the responses and won''t re-hash, but have a few thoughts.

first of all, you may have things under control now, but there are alot of expenses down the line which will dwarf engagement. wedding (!), buying a house, furnishing it, mortgages, car payments, insurance, kids etc etc. So if there are challenges this early in the game, imagine it in the future multiplied by 10. try to get to the core of the issue now: your finances and when to/ NOT to splurge. 10K for a ring is quite a lot for the financial position you are in and at your young ages/with heavy student loan debt. So he has some points (but expressing it immaturely and making it worse by wanting to add to the spending) and so do you.

Another thought is--do you guys have separate accounts? it seems like you should..as should everyone (a joint and also each separate account). i''m assuming both of you have separate incomes or are working towards it..or have separate savings. then each of you can individually at times decide when it is a good idea to splurge (within reason of course). From time to time you might want to buy something silly as will he, and if it''s your money (not from the joint account), that up to each of you.

 

[Efe]

Date: 2/25/2007 4:42:31 PM
Author: DiamondSmitten
I just want to say this isn''t about living with my parents. They allow us to live here because they have been able to provide SO LITTLE for me in the past. I have a masters degree but since they never were able to contribute a cent for schooling for life ( in fact I have lent them many thousands over the years) I am $70,000 in student loan debt in order to educate myself for a better life. They provide all the love and support in the world and I thank them for that but letting us live here is minimal compared to most of my friends who have had college, cars etc handed to them. It was 6000 ''new dollars'' for the ring as the 3000 was from the old ring, spent years ago, from stocks he was given as an infant.

I have been thinking about this thread all day. I am very troubled by your statement about what your parents have not done for you. The obligations that parents have to their children are to clothe them, feed them, and support them emotionally in order to put them out into the world as solid, productive individuals. I think it is admirable that you have helped them financially, but it is not good for you to be bitter about what they weren''t able to give you compared to your peers. This will only hurt you in the long run.

I think Ladykemma is giving you some of the best advice you will ever get, and it''s free. If you are smart enough to deny yourself in your 20s and 30s, and instead invest in your future, you will have greater choices and flexibility in your middle years. My friends used to make fun of me because I pinched pennies and sent $20 a month to two utility companies as part of their direct stock buying program. I never made anywhere near the money you will potentially make, but I understood the magic of compound interest and took up investing as a hobby. Now, I work when I want to and have the freedom to walk if I don''t like what I am doing or who I am working with.

I realize that things cost more these days, but the salaries used to be a fraction of what they are now. Plus, we never had an expectation of having the same standard of living starting out as our parents had then. They worked all of their lives to be where they were, and that is what we expected to do ourselves.

I think you can choose to be defensive (which is easy to do when you feel you are being unfairly treated) or you can be wise and really think about what is being said. What I find remarkable about this board, is that everyone here really does seem to want the best for each other and want to help each other see themselves and their issues objectively. This is really a gift because most people in your everyday life can''t or don''t have the guts to tell you like it really is.

 

[psaddict]

"the student loans =~400 a month for 35 years, if we were to say give 5000 for that instead of the TV its taken off the LAST 5000 we would owe 30 years form now and doesn''t ease the finances now so its def not the way to go for that."

Thinking like this is not good. "Oh, we wouldn''t have that money until we''re old so who cares about putting it aside." It sounds to me that you''re a little resentful of your parents for being unable to help you pay for college. If you plan to have kids, every $1,000 you can put away now to gather interest could be a significant chunk of money for them to spend on books, tuition, etc. And if you don''t have kids, every $1,000 put away now is money that will double and triple with interest over the years, and could help you retire early. I have zero debt from school and I would still never even consider spending $16,000 on luxury items when I''m barely starting out (and don''t even have a home yet!)

 

[aquarius_ser]

NO, I do not think you two are in a financial position to spend $5K on a TV/sound system.... no matter what your ring costs...
NO, I doubt you two were in a financial position to spend $10K on your ring, but hey, what''s done is done..... enjoy it....
You two need to have a real talk about your future financial situation and come up with a SERIOUS plan.

Do not blow this out of proportion and feel that your ring is "tainted" forever.... this will blow over as everything does.

My FH just spent $3K on a TV, however, he saved up and paid cash for it.....
My FH and I paid cash for my ring which was over $13K..... sure I wanted it earlier, but you can''t have everything you want when you want it. That''s life.

That is the way I do things..... ** NO DEBT HERE **

 

[DiamondSmitten]

I have been thinking about this thread all day. I am very troubled by your statement about what your parents have not done for you. That statement was simply replying to the people who stated that we should be kicked out or that they would tell us to leave. You should read the many many other replies where I state how thankful I am to have supportive parents emotionally despite not being able to financially "be there" for me. The fact that they can''t do financially and haven''t been able to for most of my life is why they GIVE in the manner of letting us stay and save money in addition to helping them out.

The obligations that parents have to their children are to clothe them, feed them, and support them emotionally in order to put them out into the world as solid, productive individuals. To live in America where a higher education is ESSENTIAL to being a productive individual to think that feeding and clothing a child is all you need to do as a parent is dow right IRRESPONSIBLE. I would NEVER have more childern than I can afford to raise and in this world that INCLUDES a higher education. To do so is to set them up for life behind the ball having to either choose to go on without education or to get the education and start an adult life 30,000-100,000 dollars in debt. My parents didn''t take all this into account when having 3 kids, so I chose the latter and I am plenty strong for it, but it SUCKS, it has nothing to do with being ungrateful for all that they have given me with love, but everything to do with starting life BEHIND, and in debt.

The federal government even dictates that parents should provide for their childrens education because I got less in fact hardly any financial aid in college because they ALWAYS took my parents income (no their debt) into account when calcuating the aid I would receive. In fact the ONLY way parent''s income is NOT included is if I waited till I was 24 to START college, got married or had a baby.

I realize that things cost more these days, (cost MORE?, the houses we are looking at for 220,000-250000 were 100-130,000 8-10 years ago, thats not "more" thats damn near double, to pay THAT house off in 15 years it would have been about 1300 a month (tax and ins included sooo Do-able. That same house is is over 2400 a month to pay off in 15 years... not NEARLY as do-able.) but the salaries used to be a fraction of what they are now. I suppose we are talking about different industries because the job I am going into at ~40,000 to start was ~34000 8 years ago. that HARDLY compares to the difference in real estate and hence mortgage prices.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/26/2007 4:23:39 PM
Author: DiamondSmitten

I have been thinking about this thread all day. I am very troubled by your statement about what your parents have not done for you. That statement was simply replying to the people who stated that we should be kicked out or that they would tell us to leave. You should read the many many other replies where I state how thankful I am to have supportive parents emotionally despite not being able to financially ''be there'' for me. The fact that they can''t do financially and haven''t been able to for most of my life is why they GIVE in the manner of letting us stay and save money in addition to helping them out.

The obligations that parents have to their children are to clothe them, feed them, and support them emotionally in order to put them out into the world as solid, productive individuals. To live in America where a higher education is ESSENTIAL to being a productive individual to think that feeding and clothing a child is all you need to do as a parent is dow right IRRESPONSIBLE. I would NEVER have more childern than I can afford to raise and in this world that INCLUDES a higher education. To do so is to set them up for life behind the ball having to either choose to go on without education or to get the education and start an adult life 30,000-100,000 dollars in debt. My parents didn''t take all this into account when having 3 kids, so I chose the latter and I am plenty strong for it, but it SUCKS, it has nothing to do with being ungrateful for all that they have given me with love, but everything to do with starting life BEHIND, and in debt.

The federal government even dictates that parents should provide for their childrens education because I got less in fact hardly any financial aid in college because they ALWAYS took my parents income (no their debt) into account when calcuating the aid I would receive. In fact the ONLY way parent''s income is NOT included is if I waited till I was 24 to START college, got married or had a baby.

I realize that things cost more these days, (cost MORE?, the houses we are looking at for 220,000-250000 were 100-130,000 8-10 years ago, thats not ''more'' thats damn near double, to pay THAT house off in 15 years it would have been about 1300 a month (tax and ins included sooo Do-able. That same house is is over 2400 a month to pay off in 15 years... not NEARLY as do-able.) but the salaries used to be a fraction of what they are now. I suppose we are talking about different industries because the job I am going into at ~40,000 to start was ~34000 8 years ago. that HARDLY compares to the difference in real estate and hence mortgage prices.

DS, it comes across that you think you are owed - whether or not you mean to. You are responsible for making yourself into a productive individual. Not your parents. Yes, it would be nice, but it''s not their responsibility.

Getting a degree does not have to cost 30K-100K. JCs are reasonably priced for your general ed classes. State schools cost less and admissions may not be as stringent.

A higher education is not essential to being a productive individual (TGuy does not have a degree, but he does very well). To be productive means you are outputting more than the resources you are taking in...perhaps a lesson for young people to learn these days when they are looking at buying 6K TVs and large diamond rings.