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Found a 3 carat round super ideal cut I IF diamond for ~$37k

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nickdee

Rough_Rock
Trade
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Oct 4, 2021
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I’ve been looking for a 3 carat round diamond I color for between $35-40k. I’ve found lots of VS2, VS1 diamonds did that price range that looked really good. But I can across this one below. I’ve never saw an IF above 3 carats in this price range. From what I can tell, there doesn’t really look like much is wrong with if.
What are your opinions in this stone at this price range?
is it just a really good deal or is there something wrong with this that I cannot see in the photo.9A177AF0-5A48-4FD2-A4C6-87D8BFA1C0AE.jpeg

https://www.brilliantearth.com/loose-diamonds/view_detail/12024254/
 
Just off the top of my head, it’s a slightly odd combo of IF and I colour - most people wanting IF also want DEF not GHI.
It’s also got strong blue fluorescence which is often viewed negatively.
The proportions are a bit off as well with the table being larger than the depth although it’s only slightly larger. It’s roughly a 60:60 cut which favours white light return over fire although it’s not all or nothing. It’s not a bad style, it’s just a particular look and a lot of people on this forum don’t love them as much as the ideal proportions.
So it may not be such a great bargain after all.
What does the HCA show with these proportions? I don’t really know MRB proportions.
 
foxinsox said:
Just off the top of my head, it’s a slightly odd combo of IF and I colour - most people wanting IF also want DEF not GHI.
It’s also got strong blue fluorescence which is often viewed negatively.
The proportions are a bit off as well with the table being larger than the depth although it’s only slightly larger. It’s roughly a 60:60 cut which favours white light return over fire although it’s not all or nothing. It’s not a bad style, it’s just a particular look and a lot of people on this forum don’t love them as much as the ideal proportions.
So it may not be such a great bargain after all.
What does the HCA show with these proportions? I don’t really know MRB proportions.
Click to expand...
Agree with the above and would also add that the crown with 32 angle and 12.5% height too shallow. Here are the PS recommended proportions:

www.pricescope.com

Diamond Proportions

The physics of light-behavior within a diamond are reliably consistent, which means proportions measurements can be useful.
www.pricescope.com

You'll get better performance from a well cut VS option than an IF with unbalanced proportions. So even if price is similar, I would rather a well cut stone that is less high on the clarity scale.
 
Definitely not a super ideal cut diamond as the title of the thread implies. I agree with points made by others above; when the price is very low, there are always reasons for it.
 
foxinsox said:
Just off the top of my head, it’s a slightly odd combo of IF and I colour - most people wanting IF also want DEF not GHI.
It’s also got strong blue fluorescence which is often viewed negatively.
The proportions are a bit off as well with the table being larger than the depth although it’s only slightly larger. It’s roughly a 60:60 cut which favours white light return over fire although it’s not all or nothing. It’s not a bad style, it’s just a particular look and a lot of people on this forum don’t love them as much as the ideal proportions.
So it may not be such a great bargain after all.
What does the HCA show with these proportions? I don’t really know MRB proportions.
Click to expand...

HCA showed 1.4
foxinsox said:
Just off the top of my head, it’s a slightly odd combo of IF and I colour - most people wanting IF also want DEF not GHI.
It’s also got strong blue fluorescence which is often viewed negatively.
The proportions are a bit off as well with the table being larger than the depth although it’s only slightly larger. It’s roughly a 60:60 cut which favours white light return over fire although it’s not all or nothing. It’s not a bad style, it’s just a particular look and a lot of people on this forum don’t love them as much as the ideal proportions.
So it may not be such a great bargain after all.
What does the HCA show with these proportions? I don’t really know MRB proportions.
Click to expand...

B85712B2-B828-4902-9761-EF4DC5262E83.jpeg
 
MissGotRocks said:
Definitely not a super ideal cut diamond as the title of the thread implies. I agree with points made by others above; when the price is very low, there are always reasons for it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice. I was also looking at these two.
www.jamesallen.com

3.07 Carat round diamond

This 3.07 carat round diamond I color vvs2 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA
www.jamesallen.com www.jamesallen.com

www.jamesallen.com

3.34 Carat round diamond

This 3.34 carat round diamond I color vs1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA
www.jamesallen.com www.jamesallen.com

They are selling for the same price. Are these better options?
 
As a general rule: clarity is less important than cut.
what I mean to say is that eye clean VS2 or SI1 are very smart choices when it comes to balancing color/cut/size consideration. There’s a general misunderstanding that an Internally Flawless is pretty for that reason alone- when in fact an eye clean G/SI1 can be far nicer than an I/If ( hyrpothetical example)
 
Rockdiamond said:
As a general rule: clarity is less important than cut.
what I mean to say is that eye clean VS2 or SI1 are very smart choices when it comes to balancing color/cut/size consideration. There’s a general misunderstanding that an Internally Flawless is pretty for that reason alone- when in fact an eye clean G/SI1 can be far nicer than an I/If ( hyrpothetical example)
Click to expand...

True words.

@nickdee here is a prime example of what David is talking about:

Diamond | 3.177 ct J SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4187474

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 3.177 carat J color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4187474
www.whiteflash.com
 
On no planet is that super ideal. Where did you get that idea? It is not a well cut diamond at all.

The HCA is a rejection tool (identifies instant giant dealbreakers), not a selection tool.
 
Last edited:
nickdee said:
HCA showed 1.4


B85712B2-B828-4902-9761-EF4DC5262E83.jpeg
Click to expand...

The HCA is a rejection tool, not a selection tool. Designed to help you narrow the search results and weed out diamonds that are likely to perform poorly. Once you confirm that the HCA score is within the acceptable range, you still need to assess the stone to determine if it is good, analyze light return, symmetry etc. with advanced images. In general, PS members are going to suggest that you choose a stone within the recommended proportions per the link in my previous post. This isn't to say that there are no beautiful diamond outside the ranges but it is really case by case. Staying within those proportion will greatly improve your chance of success buying a beautiful MRB stone online.
 
Tourmaline said:
On no planet is that super ideal. Where did you get that idea? It is not a well cut diamond at all.

The HCA is a rejection tool (identifies instant dealbreakers to buyers who don’t know anything about diamond cut), not a selection tool.
Click to expand...

Brilliant Earth marketing, of course!

Screenshot_20211005-071041.png
 
Unfortunately, on Brilliant Earth they have a "Super Ideal" category that obviously doesn't fit our standard of Super Ideal.

clip1.png
Edit @DejaWiz , @Tourmaline I think we were all posting at the same time!
 
I definitely wouldn't call that stone super ideal. BEs definition is laughable. The other JA options you posted arent great either. What is your budget and desired size/color/clarity? We can help you find better alternatives
 
lovedogs said:
I definitely wouldn't call that stone super ideal. BEs definition is laughable. The other JA options you posted arent great either. What is your budget and desired size/color/clarity? We can help you find better alternatives
Click to expand...

Oh really? Wow this is tough.
I would like to be 3 carats and less than $40k. I color and eye clean.
These are the diamonds the experts chose for me.
 
nickdee said:
Oh really? Wow this is tough.
I would like to be 3 carats and less than $40k. I color and eye clean.
These are the diamonds the experts chose for me.
Click to expand...

Potential options (need to ask for certificates if you are interested and post them). Also put on hold if you're interested bc lurkers buy stuff we suggest.

www.jamesallen.com

3.56 Carat round diamond

This 3.56 carat round diamond I color vs2 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA
www.jamesallen.com www.jamesallen.com

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-2785512 (cut is good, but I worry about clouds, so curious what the cert says)

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-12483276 (not sure this is eye clean)
 
Not perfect, but WF is amazing and you could upgrade to a true super ideal down the road:

Diamond | 3.024 ct H SI1 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4193660

This fabulous 3.024 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of SI1 and color grade of H.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4193660
www.whiteflash.com

Ask them how eye clean this is, because it has potential to be perfect for what you are after:

Diamond | 2.916 ct I SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4429335

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 2.916 carat I color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4429335
www.whiteflash.com
 
nickdee said:
Oh really? Wow this is tough.
I would like to be 3 carats and less than $40k. I color and eye clean.
These are the diamonds the experts chose for me.
Click to expand...

What experts are you referring to? We are pretty picky around here so we go for the best cuts/symmetry.
You're spending a lot of money...you need to get a good (as in great) cut!
 
There’s a premium associated with IF clarity. People go there because it’s the ‘best’. Compared to an otherwise similar VS2, it’s going to be on the order of 50% more money. Why? Because they can. Very few people just happen to land on IF unless it was the objective in the first place. Similarly, there’s a discount for strong blue. Not so many people seek that out and the ones who land there are almost always shopping for price and don’t much care about fluorescence. That’s not going to be quite as much money. Maybe 15%.

When I search the database above, I find 59 stones that meet your requirements in a broad brush kind of way if VS1-2 is acceptable on the clarity and GIAxxx is used as the cut grade (which I suspect is what BE is using). Moving clarity to include SI1 makes it 117. Did you talk about fluorescence? Do you care? No doubt your seller has other stones that they can offer, including many of the same ones you see listed here. Don't let them back you into a corner. That’s a lot to choose from but it begs a few questions about your parameters.

Did you choose IF, or were you steered to it by the ‘experts’? What about the I color? Was that your choice or someone else’s? You're paying another substantial premium for over 3 carats. Is that a core requirement that's coming from you or would be happy with slightly under at a substantial discount? Would you be happier at 3.5 if it's still in the budget? How fixed is the budget? If you could raise something, say weight to just under 4 by raising the budget, would you do it (there's another big price bump at 4.00)?

Diamond Search Results | Real-time Information on 1,000,000+ Diamonds | PriceScope

PriceScope's Diamond Search is the best place to find the best diamond prices. Search and compare over a million natural, lab and fancy color diamonds.
www.pricescope.com www.pricescope.com
 
tyty333 said:
What experts are you referring to? We are pretty picky around here so we go for the best cuts/symmetry.
You're spending a lot of money...you need to get a good (as in great) cut!
Click to expand...

The experts at the online retailers.
 
denverappraiser said:
There’s a premium associated with IF clarity. People go there because it’s the ‘best’. Compared to an otherwise similar VS2, it’s going to be on the order of 50% more money. Why? Because they can. Very few people just happen to land on IF unless it was the objective in the first place. Similarly, there’s a discount for strong blue. Not so many people seek that out and the ones who land there are almost always shopping for price and don’t much care about fluorescence. That’s not going to be quite as much money. Maybe 15%.

When I search the database above, I find 59 stones that meet your requirements in a broad brush kind of way if VS1-2 is acceptable on the clarity and GIAxxx is used as the cut grade (which I suspect is what BE is using). Moving clarity to include SI1 makes it 117. Did you talk about fluorescence? Do you care? No doubt your seller has other stones that they can offer, including many of the same ones you see listed here. Don't let them back you into a corner. That’s a lot to choose from but it begs a few questions about your parameters.

Did you choose IF, or were you steered to it by the ‘experts’? What about the I color? Was that your choice or someone else’s? You're paying another substantial premium for over 3 carats. Is that a core requirement that's coming from you or would be happy with slightly under at a substantial discount? Would you be happier at 3.5 if it's still in the budget? How fixed is the budget? If you could raise something, say weight to just under 4 by raising the budget, would you do it (there's another big price bump at 4.00)?

Diamond Search Results | Real-time Information on 1,000,000+ Diamonds | PriceScope

PriceScope's Diamond Search is the best place to find the best diamond prices. Search and compare over a million natural, lab and fancy color diamonds.
www.pricescope.com www.pricescope.com
Click to expand...

Thank you for that information. I’ve looked everywhere. I see that there are 59 stones that are available. But how many are those cut well. And I know the stone above isn’t cut very well. Maybe kind if well? But when I search these websites, you see absolutely no arrows and it’s just a big circle blotch in the table. Absolutely awful. Out of them all, possibly 15% you could actually see a distinct arrow shape in the table. Just like the IF above. And that is what I was looking for when sorting through all these diamonds.
And I was not looking for a IF. I was looking for 3 carat VS2+. And this IF was just listed at the same price. And it actually looked way better in the video as you could see the distinct arrow pattern in the table. All the other ones just had that huge circle blotch with no arrows. So I thought it could have been a rare find.
But I do see not it’s not a super ideal cut, but it’s still seems like a better cut that 80% of the other ones I am finding.
 
It is difficult to set parameters for color and carat weight at a specific dollar amount. You will generally have to set a budget and see what that much money will get you in terms of a very well cut diamond. Size or color won’t matter much if the diamond is a dud in terms of cut. Prices are high now so you may have to make adjustments on your size, color or budget.

Here is a beautiful 3+ carat, I color, VS2 clarity which would leave you no room to wonder on cut quality. However, the wire price is 4K over the top of your budget. Could it be doable for you?

Diamond | 3.054 ct I VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4430059

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 3.054 carat I color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4430059
www.whiteflash.com
 
MissGotRocks said:
It is difficult to set parameters for color and carat weight at a specific dollar amount. You will generally have to set a budget and see what that much money will get you in terms of a very well cut diamond. Size or color won’t matter much if the diamond is a dud in terms of cut. Prices are high now so you may have to make adjustments on your size, color or budget.

Here is a beautiful 3+ carat, I color, VS2 clarity which would leave you no room to wonder on cut quality. However, the wire price is 4K over the top of your budget. Could it be doable for you?

Diamond | 3.054 ct I VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4430059

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 3.054 carat I color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4430059
www.whiteflash.com
Click to expand...

Wow that is such a beautiful stone!! Thank you so much for looking that up and posting it. Although that just just over my budget. I wish it were not though :(
 
I vs J to compare tinting:

3.177 J SI1

Diamond | 3.177 ct J SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4187474

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 3.177 carat J color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4187474
www.whiteflash.com
Screenshot_20211005-211118.png

2.916 I SI1

Diamond | 2.916 ct I SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4429335

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 2.916 carat I color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4429335
www.whiteflash.com
Screenshot_20211005-211311.png

2.694 I SI1:

Diamond | 2.694 ct I SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4396559

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 2.694 carat I color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4396559
www.whiteflash.com
Screenshot_20211005-212512.png
 
Last edited:
Both of those that DejaWiz just posted a comparison were suggested to you above are also from Whiteflash and within your budget. The 2.916 I SI stone says 'inquire' for eye clean I suspect is because of that inclusion you can see the the 12 o'clock point in the diamond's photo but you can confirm that with WhiteFlash and if it is something that a prong on the ring can cover up.

Those above are well cut stones within your budget. Otherwise, you need to think about if you can compromise on color to a J or size and go under 3ct. Or up your budget.
 
lovedogs said:
Potential options (need to ask for certificates if you are interested and post them). Also put on hold if you're interested bc lurkers buy stuff we suggest.

www.jamesallen.com

3.56 Carat round diamond

This 3.56 carat round diamond I color vs2 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA
www.jamesallen.com www.jamesallen.com

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-2785512 (cut is good, but I worry about clouds, so curious what the cert says)

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-12483276 (not sure this is eye clean)
Click to expand...

The 3.56 has an HCA of 2.3 (it’s VG on all parameters).

3.14 is true hearts, so the HCA is 1.6, but it looks a bit dull in the video, cert will be needed.

This 3.2 I VS2 from JA is AGS Ideal, HCA 1.2. Has slightly thin arrows, but otherwise from the video looks good to me - worth putting on hold and getting the cert. it’s within budget and 3ct+! https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-i-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-4455435
 
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