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Found a 3 carat round super ideal cut I IF diamond for ~$37k

AllAboardTheBlingTrain said:
The 3.56 has an HCA of 2.3 (it’s VG on all parameters).

3.14 is true hearts, so the HCA is 1.6, but it looks a bit dull in the video, cert will be needed.

This 3.2 I VS2 from JA is AGS Ideal, HCA 1.2. Has slightly thin arrows, but otherwise from the video looks good to me - worth putting on hold and getting the cert. it’s within budget and 3ct+! https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-i-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-4455435
Click to expand...

That 3.2 you posted. It looks really dirty in the photo. The one I posted had HCA of 1.4. And judging off the photos of the one you posted, snd the photos of the one I posted, don’t look terribly different. You can see the arrows in the table. So why pay the same price for a dirtier looking stone. Thank you for the help. I am still trying to learn.
 
nickdee said:
That 3.2 you posted. It looks really dirty in the photo. The one I posted had HCA of 1.4. And judging off the photos of the one you posted, snd the photos of the one I posted, don’t look terribly different. You can see the arrows in the table. So why pay the same price for a dirtier looking stone. Thank you for the help. I am still trying to learn.
Click to expand...

The 3.2 is AGS Ideal, meaning that the angles are likely to be close to Tolkowsky ideal proportions which usually have the best balance of white light and fire. With 60T/32C/41P your stone is right on the cusp of GIA Ex and will not make AGS Ideal. AGS’s cut proportions are more stringent than GIA’s, so you really want to be getting a stone that falls in the middle of both grading systems. I’ve posted a screenshot of your 3ct I IF’s analysis on cut estimator (diamondscreener is the name of the website), you can see that the cut, according to the angles, is not that great, which is borne out by what others are telling you. The 32 crown angle is simply too shallow. 33 would work a lot better.

I would get the certificate of the 3.2 just to get more information about the stone, but you can also go with any of the Whiteflash options others have posted (literally any of them, WF stones are always cut beautifully). You can also ask the rep to verify if the 3.2 will be eye-clean, you’ll never be seeing a stone so up close and personal as the video. I usually don’t worry about it with VS2 because I have never seen one that isn’t eye clean, but it’s about your own personal comfort of course.

32B6CED7-7167-4D4B-8F9F-C9AE972A03D3.jpeg
 
AllAboardTheBlingTrain said:
The 3.2 is AGS Ideal, meaning that the angles are likely to be close to Tolkowsky ideal proportions which usually have the best balance of white light and fire. With 60T/32C/41P your stone is right on the cusp of GIA Ex and will not make AGS Ideal. AGS’s cut proportions are more stringent than GIA’s, so you really want to be getting a stone that falls in the middle of both grading systems. I’ve posted a screenshot of your 3ct I IF’s analysis on cut estimator (diamondscreener is the name of the website), you can see that the cut, according to the angles, is not that great, which is borne out by what others are telling you. The 32 crown angle is simply too shallow. 33 would work a lot better.

I would get the certificate of the 3.2 just to get more information about the stone, but you can also go with any of the Whiteflash options others have posted (literally any of them, WF stones are always cut beautifully). You can also ask the rep to verify if the 3.2 will be eye-clean, you’ll never be seeing a stone so up close and personal as the video. I usually don’t worry about it with VS2 because I have never seen one that isn’t eye clean, but it’s about your own personal comfort of course.

32B6CED7-7167-4D4B-8F9F-C9AE972A03D3.jpeg
Click to expand...

That looks pretty close to the AGS box. But it still doesn’t matter and it won’t sparkle well? Also, WF barely has photos of anything. How do you know what the diamonds are going to look like without a photo?

Diamond | 3.024 ct H SI1 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4193660

This fabulous 3.024 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of SI1 and color grade of H.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4193660
www.whiteflash.com
I found this one. Is this a good option?
 
nickdee said:

Diamond | 3.024 ct H SI1 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4193660

This fabulous 3.024 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of SI1 and color grade of H.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4193660
www.whiteflash.com
I found this one. Is this a good option?
Click to expand...

This is the same one that @lovedogs suggested to you before. It'll have better light performance than the I IF stone you asked about initially. The other I color ACA stone a touch under 3ct she suggested is from the top of the line range at WhiteFlash and would have the best light performance. You need to check with WhiteFlash if that stone will be eye clean enough for you though.
 
Diamond_Enthusiast said:
This is the same one that @lovedogs suggested to you before. It'll have better light performance than the I IF stone you asked about initially. The other I color ACA stone a touch under 3ct she suggested is from the top of the line range at WhiteFlash and would have the best light performance. You need to check with WhiteFlash if that stone will be eye clean enough for you though.
Click to expand...

Oh on I see that! Cool. Thank you @lovedogs .
Would it have way better light performance to justify dropping from an IF down to an SI1?
 
nickdee said:
That looks pretty close to the AGS box. But it still doesn’t matter and it won’t sparkle well? Also, WF barely has photos of anything. How do you know what the diamonds are going to look like without a photo?

Diamond | 3.024 ct H SI1 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4193660

This fabulous 3.024 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of SI1 and color grade of H.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4193660
www.whiteflash.com
I found this one. Is this a good option?
Click to expand...

It may sparkle well. You might find that to your eye, there is no real difference in performance between this diamond and a Tolkowsky ideal, or that there is a difference but you don't care, or that you prefer the look of the 32/41 (heavily biased towards brightness, less fire). We can't answer that, you can. And you also will only really be able to answer that if you see many stones by eye, in similar lighting conditions, to develop an idea of the "flavour" you prefer. When we recommend a certain look, its because most people tend to like that look, so its the safest bet. I don't like to go outside the Ex/Ideal box because Ex and Ideal are both such wide categories anyway that going outside this box unnerves me.

Personally speaking, I like a good 60-60, though as a rule I don't like such a shallow crown as the one you've picked. I would be more swayed towards it if it was a screaming good deal, but since you have options that are similar size and price (albeit lower clarity, but that doesn't bother me) I would not feel inclined to try it out.

The difference between ACA and ES at WF is vanishingly small, by the way. Small differences in optical symmetry (that are not really perceivable to the ordinary person). I would treat those as interchangeable (others might not agree).

Also, I'm not sure what you mean, because WF has quite a few images and videos, more than the typical vendor. Did you click through all of them? They will also take more pics and videos for you, e.g. comparing a stone to others in their inventory, on the hand, in controlled lighting environments etc. You can also ask them to assess if a stone is eye clean - they're quite good at determining that. I would go for an eye clean SI that is well cut over an IF that is not as well cut; per MY definition of well cut. I don't personally need the ES/ACA level of precision, my eyes arent discerning enough, but I do like to make sure my other ducks are in a row (I won't pick a stone that doesnt score both GIA Ex and AGS Ideal, for example).
 
nickdee said:
Oh on I see that! Cool. Thank you @lovedogs .
Would it have way better light performance to justify dropping from an IF down to an SI1?
Click to expand...

This should shed some light on clarity grades, nature/size/location of inclusions, and which can or will impact light performance and which will not.
www.pricescope.com

Diamond Clarity: Everything You Need To Know

What is the best diamond clarity? Our extensive guide and interactive diamond clarity chart shows you everything you need to know.
www.pricescope.com

Here is a great resource that explains the positives and negatives that impact light performance.
www.pricescope.com

Diamond Performance Explained

Did you know that "fire" and "scintillation" are not the same thing? "Contrast" and "leakage" also differ from each other.
www.pricescope.com
 
nickdee said:
Oh on I see that! Cool. Thank you @lovedogs .
Would it have way better light performance to justify dropping from an IF down to an SI1?
Click to expand...


AllAboardTheBlingTrain said:
Also, I'm not sure what you mean, because WF has quite a few images and videos, more than the typical vendor. Did you click through all of them? They will also take more pics and videos for you, e.g. comparing a stone to others in their inventory, on the hand, in controlled lighting environments etc. You can also ask them to assess if a stone is eye clean - they're quite good at determining that. I would go for an eye clean SI that is well cut over an IF that is not as well cut; per MY definition of well cut. I don't personally need the ES/ACA level of precision, my eyes arent discerning enough, but I do like to make sure my other ducks are in a row (I won't pick a stone that doesnt score both GIA Ex and AGS Ideal, for example).
Click to expand...

Agree with the above and that I would pick an eye clean well cut SI over a not as well cut IF. I think most PS members would not sacrifice cut for maximum clarity because we know that cut is the key driver to a diamond's sparkle.

Also remember that the characteristics that makes a diamond more valuable each commands a premium. So when you have an IF that is priced similar to say a VS/SI stone, you are sacrificing something else which in the case of the original stone, I believe it is cut. Most people wouldn't get/recommend an IF here because if it means that dropping to a VS or SI can get them a better cut, larger stone and/or better color, we will take that. It is about balancing your priorities.
 
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I understand and respect your reasons for posting it @lovedogs but I think $40,000 is a lot of money, and the OP’s insistence on getting a diamond over the 3ct mark even if it means getting an inferior diamond, is really unfortunate.
 
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AllAboardTheBlingTrain said:
It may sparkle well. You might find that to your eye, there is no real difference in performance between this diamond and a Tolkowsky ideal, or that there is a difference but you don't care, or that you prefer the look of the 32/41 (heavily biased towards brightness, less fire). We can't answer that, you can. And you also will only really be able to answer that if you see many stones by eye, in similar lighting conditions, to develop an idea of the "flavour" you prefer. When we recommend a certain look, its because most people tend to like that look, so its the safest bet. I don't like to go outside the Ex/Ideal box because Ex and Ideal are both such wide categories anyway that going outside this box unnerves me.

Personally speaking, I like a good 60-60, though as a rule I don't like such a shallow crown as the one you've picked. I would be more swayed towards it if it was a screaming good deal, but since you have options that are similar size and price (albeit lower clarity, but that doesn't bother me) I would not feel inclined to try it out.

The difference between ACA and ES at WF is vanishingly small, by the way. Small differences in optical symmetry (that are not really perceivable to the ordinary person). I would treat those as interchangeable (others might not agree).

Also, I'm not sure what you mean, because WF has quite a few images and videos, more than the typical vendor. Did you click through all of them? They will also take more pics and videos for you, e.g. comparing a stone to others in their inventory, on the hand, in controlled lighting environments etc. You can also ask them to assess if a stone is eye clean - they're quite good at determining that. I would go for an eye clean SI that is well cut over an IF that is not as well cut; per MY definition of well cut. I don't personally need the ES/ACA level of precision, my eyes arent discerning enough, but I do like to make sure my other ducks are in a row (I won't pick a stone that doesnt score both GIA Ex and AGS Ideal, for example).
Click to expand...

I’m sure I think it will sparkle well. I have seen diamonds, but not many comparisons. And I dont think I have enough expertise to detect differences in sparkle. I don’t think? And I don’t think I trust myself to make that determination.



Well I went to WF and did over 3 carats, I or better. SI1 or better. Under $39k and there was only 1 diamond that had a photo. And it was the SI1 I posted above.
 
nickdee said:
Well I went to WF and did over 3 carats, I or better. SI1 or better. Under $39k and there was only 1 diamond that had a photo. And it was the SI1 I posted above.
Click to expand...

Those without a photo are from the 'virtual selection' and not the WF in-house vetted diamonds from their ACA and ES range that we recommend and go to WF to buy.

Edited to add: you are obviously going to see less diamonds in the 3ct range compared to say around the 1ct mark. However, part of this also because a well-cut 3 ct with those parameters will set you back more than 39K, like the other WF diamond that you like at around 44K.
 
Here's the PriceScope search that I used...I did include strong fluorescence, so adjust that setting accordingly if you want to stick with N, F, and/or M fluorescence.

Alternative from JA...it's a 3.50ct J VS2, faint fluorescence, beautiful proportions/angles, and around a 9.65mm spread.

www.jamesallen.com

3.50 Carat round diamond

This 3.5 carat round diamond J color vs2 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA
www.jamesallen.com www.jamesallen.com

GIA - Report Check

www.gia.edu www.gia.edu

Alternative from B2C Jewels...this one is a 3.00ct I VS2, faint fluorescence, also great proportions/angles, and has around a 9.2mm spread. Unfortunately there are no pictures or videos, so you may want to ask if they can get them.

B2C Jewels | Brilliant Round Cut Certified Natural Diamonds

www.b2cjewels.com www.b2cjewels.com

GIA - Report Check

www.gia.edu www.gia.edu
 
Tourmaline said:
I see major leakage in this one and I don’t think it’s well cut. I know that others recommended it to you, but I think it would be a bad choice.
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Oh damn. Well that was my other option.
It is so hard to find the perfect diamond. How does everyone do it?
It’s so overwhelming to get the perfect stone. I don’t want to get one that does not look good either.

I really appreciate everyone’s help here. This is my first post on this forum and I have learned so much. Everyone here is so knowledgeable. It’s almost like a blessing and a curse. I know more now, but I’m so much more lost than I was before. I was happy with a stone, now I’m second guessing myself and I don’t even know where to look moving forward.
Can someone help me with what parameters I should be looking at to get a stone that has good sparkle that’s within my budget.
Thank you!!
 
nickdee said:
How does everyone do it?

Can someone help me with what parameters I should be looking at to get a stone that has good sparkle that’s within my budget.
Thank you!!
Click to expand...

There are all kinds of advice, but here on Pricescope, we value cut above other things. The way to do it is to lower either your size or color limits.

I have the diamond of my dreams, a perfect antique old European cut. It is an M color, which I adore. It likely would have been 4 times the price if it was above J.

In your case, since you are going with a modern round brilliant, you’ll have to go down in size (only a tiny bit) to stay within your budget. We can help. I know a couple of ACAs were already recommended to you.
 
Tourmaline said:
There are all kinds of advice, but here on Pricescope, we value cut above other things. The way to do it is to lower either your size or color limits.

I have the diamond of my dreams, a perfect antique old European cut. It is an M color, which I adore. It likely would have been 4 times the price if it was above J.

In your case, since you are going with a modern round brilliant, you’ll have to go down in size (only a tiny bit) to stay within your budget. We can help. I know a couple of ACAs were already recommended to you.
Click to expand...

Ok got it.

Diamond | 3.024 ct H SI1 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4193660

This fabulous 3.024 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of SI1 and color grade of H.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4193660
www.whiteflash.com
And I know you don’t like the diamond above, but what would you rank that cut out of 10?
And how about the original diamond, what would you rank that out of 10.
I need to have a baseline for how much better I need the cut to be for looking for new diamonds.
 
nickdee said:
Ok got it.

Diamond | 3.024 ct H SI1 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4193660

This fabulous 3.024 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of SI1 and color grade of H.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4193660
www.whiteflash.com
And I know you don’t like the diamond above, but what would you rank that cut out of 10?
And how about the original diamond, what would you rank that out of 10.
I need to have a baseline for how much better I need the cut to be for looking for new diamonds.
Click to expand...

Assuming we’re talking about appeal, I would rank the original one a 3 and the 3.024ct a 5.

See the dark ring in this screenshot from the 3.024 video? It’s bad.

4B079FB6-8CFC-464C-981F-90D2739A5A80.jpeg

Here’s a screenshot from the original diamond at the beginning of the thread that you posted. It has a large table and low crown, just unattractive architecture, not to mention bad face-up center and arrows. I had a low top diamond once and grew to hate it.

11D57289-D74D-4C1D-BCC4-8989C619E8A8.jpeg
 
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Tourmaline said:
Assuming we’re talking about appeal, I would rank the original one a 3 and the 3.024ct a 5.

See the dark ring in this screenshot from the 3.024 video? It’s bad.

4B079FB6-8CFC-464C-981F-90D2739A5A80.jpeg
Click to expand...

Holy moly...I have pasta strainers that leak less.
 
DejaWiz said:
Holy moly...I have pasta strainers that leak less.
Click to expand...

The dark ring on the outside edge of the table? Or the center circle?
 
Tourmaline said:
4B079FB6-8CFC-464C-981F-90D2739A5A80.jpeg

Here’s a screenshot from the original diamond at the beginning of the thread that you posted. It has a large table and low crown, just unattractive architecture, not to mention bad face-up center and arrows. I had a low top diamond once and grew to hate it.

11D57289-D74D-4C1D-BCC4-8989C619E8A8.jpeg
Click to expand...

Why did you grow to hate it?
 
nickdee said:
Why did you grow to hate it?
Click to expand...

It looked nice directly head on only. Any other angle at all, and it didn’t. The side view was simply unattractive. Even though it was large, it got hidden in a setting unless I looked at it directly from the top.
 
Tourmaline said:
It looked nice directly head on only. Any other angle at all, and it didn’t. The side view was simply unattractive. Even though it was large, it got hidden in a setting unless I looked at it directly from the top.
Click to expand...
What are your thoughts on this diamond.
www.jamesallen.com

3.00 Carat round diamond

This 3 carat round diamond I color vvs1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA
www.jamesallen.com www.jamesallen.com
This was is less expensive than the original one.
 
nickdee said:
What are your thoughts on this diamond.
www.jamesallen.com

3.00 Carat round diamond

This 3 carat round diamond I color vvs1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA
www.jamesallen.com www.jamesallen.com
This was is less expensive than the original one.
Click to expand...

Please post the certificate or numbers. It doesn’t look terrible, though there might be a symmetry issue. It’s either that or not aligned properly in the video.
 
Tourmaline said:
Please post the certificate or numbers. It doesn’t look terrible, though there might be a symmetry issue. It’s either that or not aligned properly in the video.
Click to expand...

7FABE0B0-5649-4A5B-86FD-68A0D7FDE870.png
 
Tourmaline said:
It’s too deep. The angles don’t play well together and it won’t look as big as it should.
Click to expand...

Ok so another dud. This is really tough!
 
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