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Fun ways to spoil your dog!

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mmm, i don't mean the thread is overprotective, just the last few posts. i agree completely with your thoughts to start out.




we went through a similar process with one of our cats a few years ago. she developed colon cancer, but the surgery to remove the tumor blocking her colon was not 100% successful. the vet gave us the option of chemo but we opted against it given her age (15). she lived for another year before the cancer really came back, and was happy for most of it.
 
I tend to agree with the Capt. about overprotection. However, (while recognizing that I have overprotective tendencies) I think that much of it also has to do with how our society has changed. When I was a kid living in the country, the dog was never on leash and was well socialized from playing with all the neighboring dogs. In this day and age, living in the burbs with what many out there like to label "vicious" dogs, I have to take many ridiculous extra precautions to avoid frivolous lawsuits, for example. To get back to the diet topic, I'd have no prob with my dogs out in the boonies eating what nature put in their path (Bentley is a proven and mighty goat and chicken hunter - that's how he wound up in rescue) but I do worry about all the crap they can get in their bodies in a more urban environment. From chemicals in cheap commerical kibble (made for greatest profit, like the crappy diamonds we all love to hate) and pesticides used in our neighborhoods. I guess it boils down to this: I'm protective in terms of keeping unnatural things out of their system. I think they're well equipped to handle what wild dogs or wolves would eat (raw meat, raw eggs, that kind of thing) and most of what we eat. But I'm betting in the wild they wouldn't be eating confectioner's chocolate with a side of onions and raisins, so they won't get it in our house either. Plus, we enforce good table manners, so they don't "sneak" any food!
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Finally, to use F&I's two-year-old analogy, what two-year-old doesn't need to be protected from what they'd choose to put in their mouths?!
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On 6/30/2004 7:12:09 PM quaeritur wrote:

Finally, to use F&I's two-year-old analogy, what two-year-old doesn't need to be protected from what they'd choose to put in their mouths?!
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Yep, some truth to that! And, add into the mix, Cap't someone who takes seriously a responsiblity - be diamond shopping, etc. Actually, as a rescue person, I truely applaud (standing ovation) someone who takes serious responsibility of a pet. Believe me, I've seen the 69% depth RB diamond - and in adulthood just doesn't shine!

Also, the disemination of information is immense.

Plus, ain't dogs grand.
 
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On 6/30/2004 1:50:12 PM quaeritur wrote:

The only reason I stopped was that I just couldn't afford the cost of buying them the organic and pesticide free meat, so we switched them to high quality kibble.

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I've tried to move my cat from really cheap kittykibble to higher quality stuff, but he just won't eat anything other than the cheap stuff! (at least I got him from meow mix to purina cat chow, so it doesn't stain the carpet if-and-when he throws up)

I heard it's fine for them, so I'm just not worrying too much.

(I am not going to feed the cat meat, since it would mean I would have to do a lot of handling it and the bones and guts they're supposed to get as well, and it's not as good for his teeth.)
 
eh Capt...I would venture to say that the old days was more ignorance and misinformation than now is over protection.




The way I look at it is...dogs can't vocalize when something is really wrong. Sure they can bark or whine but they can't say..."ow my stomach hurts" or "wow that onion you have been giving me in steady pizza doses for a year has given me onion poisoning and now my blood vessels are bursting".




For me it was a HUGE decision to take on the pet responsibility. Some people get pets, and make them outdoor dogs where they don't have companionship, they play by themselves, and get a walk a day and some toys and food. Personally I think dogs should be inside animals where they can hang out with the family and get the same attention and affection that you lavish on kids. I did not want to get a pet if we could not make it feel welcomed and part of the family. I've seen alot of rescue listings, especially for Westies, and I know many 'cute' pets that people just give up because they didn't conform to the family's idea of a good pet. They are just like kids, kids that almost never grow up...so it's a huge responsibility for us to care for.




Since she can't tell me how she is feeling, I would prefer to err on the side of caution and know what are some triggers for dogs. Al was telling me she gave her dog something like 1/2 an onion in the past before she knew they were bad for dogs. He was fine, but a smaller dog or a larger dose could have been more dangerous or it may not have harmed the animal at all. The point is you just never know, so why risk it? Knowledge is power and once you do know things, you can be more cautious, it takes NO extra time to be cautious. It takes no more time for me to buy more natural dog foods and treats than it does for me to go and buy processed with lots of extra chemicals. So why shouldn't I? If I have the time, I'll boil the chicken breasts, its fun for me, I'm at home all day!
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There definitely is such a thing as overprotection but there is also cautious and knowledgeable. Things people did in the past without knowing any better doesn't necessarily make it right. One dog could have the stomach of steel, just like a person with a strong constitution, and another could have a weak stomach and prone to illness. Because dog ailments so often go unnoticed until something is *really* wrong, again because they can't necessarily tell us how they feel....then I would just err on the side of caution. Though nothing, especially health, is ever guaranteed!




One last note....I had a pregnant friend recently who was talking about not drinking caffeine or eating sushi/raw fish, and this and that. I always think back to the old days, the really old days, when gals drank ale with their meals and not bottled water. Somehow babies were born back then! Cut to 30 years ago. My mom drank a liter of coke, YES a liter, daily when she was pregnant with me. I turned out JUST FINE.
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A little hyper but yanno. So in reality, everything nowadays is more 'protected'...but if that knowledge comes with some truth, then great...I'm glad we have it.
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I just had to post this which was taken today after our discussion on Frosty Paws and ice cream!
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"I love Frosty Paws so much, see how I can stick my whole snout into the cup? I'm all creamy colored around the nose and lips!"

portia20.jpg
 
"mmm, i don't mean the thread is overprotective, just the last few posts. i agree completely with your thoughts to start out"

Huh? I think you mean to refer to someone else...that wasn't my post....Guess you just have me on your mind???
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On 7/1/2004 1:44:13 PM moremoremore wrote:





'mmm, i don't mean the thread is overprotective, just the last few posts. i agree completely with your thoughts to start out'

Huh? I think you mean to refer to someone else...that wasn't my post....Guess you just have me on your mind???
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lol, it took me a minute or two to figure out what you were talking about here. no, "mmm" in that post is merely a sound of musing ("hmm"), not an abbreviation. i wasn't referring to you at all.
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shucks...and I thought you were thinking of me!
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BWAAAHAA HAA!!! love that pic of the princess. She's got this "whatchoolookinat" kind of expression! Just precious.
 
Hey Guys,
It's geat to see so many animal lovers about. When I'm not stressing about buying an e-ring, I am a veterinarian. I figured I'd weigh in with a couple comments. First of all, let me say how sorry I am about your beloved friend. The choice to euthanize is an incredibly difficult one, and the "right" time is different for everyone. Oddly enough, I chose to becomse a vet rather that an MD because of that option. I think a peaceful and dignified passing is the last gift we give our 4 legged loved ones.

Now about the spoiling. I hear a lot of treats being spewed about, and I urge you to use caution. Overweight dogs get a lot more health problems. A study showed that overweight labs lived on average of 2 years less than ones on the thin side. Thats about 20% shorter life!! Treats are ok, in moderation. I encourage people to use baby carrots, frozen string beans, or unflavored rice cakes as treats since they are sweet, crunchy, and low calorie.

Now a word about overprotection. It's true that today people are taking more precautions with their pets. It's not overprotection, but rather a reflection on the changing status of pets nowadays. The family dog is now a family member, and people want to preserve them as well as possible. The fact of the matter is that taking good care of your pets is the best way to show them you care.
Dr Corey Zatuchney, DVM
 
Hey there!!! And, Welcome aboard. Seems like diamonds & pets are a common love here!

Yes, I understand about the pet food spoiling. They are our furbabies. We do try to monitor what they eat. And, your words are most welcome.

Though as we speak - our company has just left for fireworks. And, I'm sure my pups are gettin a bit o ribs - which is a huge sacrifice for a Southerner.

Thanks for your words of wisdom. They absolutely ring true for a healthy pet.

Curious, as a vet, it must be a blessing & a curse to be able to put to rest a suffering being. I always wonder the balance. As a pet lover and owner - we were always present when they went to the Rainbow bridge & we always creamated w/ a "object" that we ceremoniously selected together.

I wonder what makes other's transition?
 
I hear that Coreyzat!!!!....growing up (and who are we kidding- even now) I associated food with love. It's really hard not to just keep feeding my cats (especially the "big-boned" fellow who LOVES to eat)...I really try to replace treats with kisses and belly rubs...do you have any ideas for healthy treats for cats...they are much more picky than doggies and don't make eating a hobby like dogs...but they do love treats.....
 
I agree with the belly rubs MMM! I used to bake dog treats from a couple of books I snagged off of Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0836269195/qid=1088902502/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/103-4941849-6965433?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/096530423X/qid=1088902502/sr=8-6/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i6_xgl14/103-4941849-6965433?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
 
F & I = You are right in it being a mized blessing. usually the pet has a terminal illness and I really feel I am doing ti a favor. Sometimes, though, they have a disease where I think I could help them, but the owner refuses diagnosis and treatment. It makes it really tough those times. All in all, however, I do feel like I am doing th right thing most of the time. As far as little ceremonies, I have had people take locks of hair. There is a company out there called Claypaws that sells these kits where you can take a clay impression of a paw. You bake it at home and can keep it as a momento. They were originally designed as christmas ornaments, but a lot of people use them as a final momento.

MMM - Cats and eating is nother big issue. Would you believe that I see more overweight cats than overweight dogs?! I think it stems from the belief that all cats will monitor their own intake. It's just too easy to always keep the bowl full. The truth is that most cats, given this scenario, will get fat. The consequence is that fat cats get diabetes. So, I warn folks that they need to measure their cat's food unless they want to give injections twice per day.
As far as treats, I don't have any specific ones, mostly because cate ARE so picky and each one likes somehing different. Using the commercial products is fine, as long as it's in moderation.
Oh, and as a side note, cats do REALLY well on the Atkins diet. If your kitty needs to shed a few pounds, try feeding prescription diets like Hill's M/D or Purina's DM. If you are on a budget, you can try canned kitten food. I actually works, as long as you don't overfeed.
Corey Z
 


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On 6/30/2004 9:13:41 PM Mara wrote:




My mom drank a liter of coke; YES a liter,daily when she was pregnant with me. ----------------
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This just explains SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much! hehehee
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Ahem.....a LITTLE hyper?????? *sneer*

 
Dr. Zatuchney's words are so true... I am a big supporter of the IDA (In Defense of Animals) and they are sponsoring efforts all across the country to change animal rights laws so that owners are referred to as the animal's "guardian" rather than owner. I just think this is wonderful and long over-due.
There was just an extremely moving article by Elliot Katz, DVM, the founder of IDA, on why this is so important, in their newsletter. You can be a local sponsor in your town to get the laws changed. For more info, visit:

http://www.guardiancampaign.com/

Also, please visit www.idausa.org for information on how you can help stop the purposeful torture of dogs in Korea for food (there is a belief that if you beat the animal before eating it, the adrenalin makes the meat "tastier"). I have template letters I developed for my friends, family, and coworkers that I can post so all you'd have to do is cut & paste, then mail.

And before anyone rips my head off, while I am very cautious about the charities I support, and I feel IDA is a very responsible and reputable organization, I realize some people might disagree with some of the IDA's points of view, etc., and that certainly is their right. I am not advocating that everyone become disciples of the IDA--I just feel these two initiatives are among those the masses might(dare I say should)agree on.
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____________________________
"Not to hurt our humble brethren is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission--to be of service to them wherever they require it."
-St. Francis of Assisi
 
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On 7/3/2004 10:13:24 PM coreyzat wrote:

Sometimes, though, they have a disease where I think I could help them, but the owner refuses diagnosis and treatment. It makes it really tough those times. --
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I'm curious. Why? If money, hence my wanting to have a fund available for people who can not afford the treatments.

The "why" I have refused to open up my pups chest is simply that I do not want to subject her to the painful surgery.....really done for an absolute diagnosis. My vet gave a less than 5% chance that the dog would have some "recovery" & that was even further diminished b/c of the high rate of death during this type of surgery. To quote my vet "the clinical side of me wants to open her up; the pet owner side me would not".

That said, I draw the line at major surgery with little odds for a renewed life. My other SS died of heart failure - open heart surgery done at a remote location was the only cure. We did however put him on a regime on Vasotec & Thyroid pills. He lived symptom free for around 3-4 years.

I like the hair & paw print memorial. THanks.
 
F&I - My comment about not enough money wasn't directed at you. Let me give you an example of the type of situation I mean....

Client comes in with a 13 year old cat that hasn't been to the vet since it's kitten shots. The cat is indoor/outdoor. The history is vomiting and decreased appetite for 2 weeks (rushed it right in!). The cat MAY have been drinking and urinating more often, but the owner doesn't know because they have 4 cats and can't tell.

At this point there are really about 4 different things that are relatively likey. Thyroid disease, kidney failure, diabetes, or cancer. On physical exam the cat is dehydrated, has a ragged hair coat, small kidneys, a Grade 2/6 heart murmur, and slightly pale pink mucous membranes. With these findings I tell the owner of the 4 possibilities of disease (physical exam did not eliminate any of them). The only way to tell is to do some lab testing, mainly a CBC, Chemisty, urinalysis, and thyroid level. Estimated cost is $200. In addition to that, the cat really should be hospitalized, and put on IV fluids. Three days of that is $550. I also have to tell the owner that if the lab tests don't tell us what we need to see, x-rays could be helpful X-rays are about $100. The worst part is that even with all this, the cat may have something we can't treat and may not respond to treatment even if there is treatable disease.

At this point the owner asks me how much euthanasia is.

The sad thing is that it could be thyroid disease and be easily treatable. I have worked with people by doing the minimum testing just to try and find something we can treat, but not everyone wants that option either. The other sad thing is that most people can afford the testing/treatment, but are unwilling to pay for it. I watch people refuse all diagnostics on a pet and walk out with thier Loius Vaton (sp?) bag and drive off in their new SUV. I can't force someone to do the testing and treatment on their animals.

The idea of a fund set up is a great one, and something I will try to do once I have my own place. Currently, I am 9th of 11 doctors, with no power in those matters. One thing I will do is make sure people who get funds are truly poor. They would have to apply for the funds, and it would only cover a percentage of their bill.

Sorry about the semi-rant. Sometimes it's just frustrating.
Corey Zatuchney
 
Hey Coreyzat...is pet insurance really worth it? We have it for our three cats....it's only about 50 bucks a month...our first cat was a stray...one day (on our first wedding aniversary..nice), he was lifeless....I didn't recognize the signs...he was diabetic and in kidney failure..I thought his coat was greasy b/c the vet had put him on behavior meds... and he started peeing all over the house- I thought it was the stress of a new cat (he was HORRIBLY aggressive and I was getting badly bitten and scratched so we had to go meds or put him up for adoption and NO ONE would have wanted him...but never again will my cats be on meds...thank god they don't need them either)..he was just dehydrated and with failing kidney...well, to make a long story short...two days of care was over two thousand dollars...at that point, they wanted to do biopsies and talked to me about daily hydration injections...so I put the poor guy down...do you think the pet insurance really covers expenses or is it a scam....?
 
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On 7/4/2004 1:35:06 PM coreyzat wrote:

The other sad thing is that most people can afford the testing/treatment, but are unwilling to pay for it. I watch people refuse all diagnostics on a pet and walk out with thier Loius Vaton (sp?) bag and drive off in their new SUV. I can't force someone to do the testing and treatment on their animals.

Sorry about the semi-rant. Sometimes it's just frustrating.
Corey Zatuchney----------------
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No worrys here. As a pet owner sometimes it's hard were you draw the line. But, as someone trained to help & heal animals then I can really see your frustration. For example, we live in the country and have barn kitties. All have been either dropped off or saved from euthanasia. All are neutered, current shots on rabies, fed, watered & housed properly & get loved on (except for one that is completely feral). I'm not sure I would go the mile for all of them. Funny, our last wave of adoptees are 7 years old w/o health problems. But, our first wave all lived to the rip old age of 17/18. The only real health problems have been cuts to be sewn up.

And, regarding my Cancer Gal, I have caught heat from some people who would not choose my path. They can not understand why I wouldn't to anything for her. To me, my path was a much harder one to take. In my heart of hearts, I think this is best for *my* dog.

My greatest concern now (aside from spoilin the ol gal rotten) is how to approach my younger male. He has known nothing but being with Heidi. They played together from day one. He is very connected to our family as a whole. Without Heidi, I fear he will be really grief stricken. So, he is signed up for more agility training. My breeder is pushing me to get another dog *before* she passes. Her thinking that the puppy would be a distraction for my gal & an easier transition for my guy. That being said, I'm at a quandry. A good/nice line of this breed isn't too easy to come across (I am allergic to most breeds. That is why we need to be picky).

And, you learn something new about your pets everyday. My ol Gal & my dopey white cat adore Jimmy Buffet music.
 
RE; Pet insurance. I have been told they are all over the board. You can research some of the contracts. Most pet owner's that have said that it was very limited for the money.

But, I'd be interested to here what the Vet says. Medical care for pets are very different today & seem to change nearly daily with what is being learned.
 
Veterinary Medical insurance is a complete ripoff....until you need it! The fact of the matter is that any insurance is a waste of money until bad luck strikes. When your dog tears an ACL and you have to shell out $1200 for the surgery, then the insurance is a bargain!!

The thing I like about pet insurance, from a vet's point of view, is that the insurer pays the client, not the vet. I don't want to be the guy stuck in the middle, and with most pet insurance, I'm not. The company I've seen the most of is VPI (Veterinary Pet Insurance). They seem to be good. Minimal paperwork, and usually no hassles. Lately though they've been getting more picky. I've had several people come back in and say their claim was rejected for some stupid reason. I use big words now hoping to make my diagnoses sound more "medical" to help folks get their claims through. For example, on one client's paperwork I wrote "Iatrogenic therapeutic perianal alopecia." Sounds good right?

I shaved the cat's butt.

Corey

PS - My mom is SO proud....professional butt shaver
 
LOL.....That's who we use...I don't know why...thank god I've never had to use it .... I love it when they send mail..it's addressed to the cats!!! but I just can't help but have this feeling that when it comes time, they wouldn't pay....well, I'm keeping it anyway!
 
quar...so today i picked up items for the ice cream you noted...i got plain yogurt instead of vanilla but i guess i can drop a bit of vanilla into the mixture eh? i'm going to make that tomorrow and see how it turns out!
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Hey Mara! Let me know how that turns out. Instead of the vanilla, you could add a little bit of honey - it's good for them and will sweeten up the yogurt
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.

Since we live in CO and it's so very dry here, I actually mix up "kibble dressing" for the kids. I use apple cider vinegar, unfiltered honey, and a bit of oil -safflower or somesuch, don't remember without looking in the pantry. I pour a tablespoon over their kibble and they LOVE it!
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On 7/4/2004 7:17:41 PM moremoremore wrote:

LOL.....That's who we use...I don't know why...thank god I've never had to use it .... I love it when they send mail..it's addressed to the cats!!! but I just can't help but have this feeling that when it comes time, they wouldn't pay....well, I'm keeping it anyway! ----------------
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Hi mmm! we have VPI for our two dogs, and I think it's just what Dr. coreyzat said... It's not saving us money right now, but heaven forbid, if we ever need it for the big nasty stuff, I think it would be beneficial. My other hope is that if I have it, the dogs won't need it!
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(I hope I don't jinx that!)

I have submitted claims to VPI for the occasional x-ray or laceration, and they have generally been prompt about paying their percentage. My only complaint is that they refused to pay a claim when Guinness had a limp that we were trying to get diagnosed. It wasn't immediately obvious that it wasn't a soft tissue trauma, so we gave it some time to heal. Long story short, it took a few months and a board certed radiologist to figure out we were looking at arthritis (she's only 3). We didn't submit claims along the way, because it was still being evaluated, but VPI wouldn't pay by the time we did because it had been over 90 days from the first treatment. On the other hand, as with most insurance, submitting numerous claims will drive up your premium, so it's a bit of a catch-22
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Still, I'd rather have it than not!
 
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On 7/4/2004 9:47:54 AM Jennifer5973 wrote:

Dr. Zatuchney's words are so true... I am a big supporter of the IDA (In Defense of Animals) and they are sponsoring efforts all across the country to change animal rights laws so that owners are referred to as the animal's 'guardian' rather than owner. I just think this is wonderful and long over-due.
There was just an extremely moving article by Elliot Katz, DVM, the founder of IDA, on why this is so important, in their newsletter. You can be a local sponsor in your town to get the laws changed. For more info, visit:

http://www.guardiancampaign.com/

Also, please visit www.idausa.org for information on how you can help stop the purposeful torture of dogs in Korea for food (there is a belief that if you beat the animal before eating it, the adrenalin makes the meat 'tastier'). I have template letters I developed for my friends, family, and coworkers that I can post so all you'd have to do is cut & paste, then mail.

And before anyone rips my head off, while I am very cautious about the charities I support, and I feel IDA is a very responsible and reputable organization, I realize some people might disagree with some of the IDA's points of view, etc., and that certainly is their right. I am not advocating that everyone become disciples of the IDA--I just feel these two initiatives are among those the masses might(dare I say should)agree on.
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____________________________
'Not to hurt our humble brethren is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission--to be of service to them wherever they require it.'
-St. Francis of Assisi
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Hi Jennifer-

I won't be one to take your head off here, and I'll admit I haven't yet checked out the site you mentioned, but here's my question... Do you think there's any risk that in becoming a "guardian" as opposed to an "owner" we might lose the right to euthanize a suffering pet? For me, I get warm fuzzies from the idea of being a guardian, but I worry that if the concept is taken too far, I will actually lose rights that now ensure I can do what is best for my dogs. Thanks for raising the issue!
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Hi, quaeritur...thanks for the thoughtful question. From everything I've read, using "guardian" doesn't diminish the authority of a pet owner, especially when it comes to making the difficult yet humane decision to put a terminally-ill, suffering pet to rest.

I think the guardian moniker is intended to better convey the true nature of our responsibility to our pets, as they are more like family members than collateral objects. It’s definitely “soft & fuzzy” on the surface—and that was my first reaction to the initiative, but after I thought about it, I realized this is significant to the argument that dogs are companion animals and not livestock—and that there is such a difference [between companion animals and livestock].

Animal rights is not an easy area to navigate—there are many opinions. I’d like to think the guardian type of idea is rather universal (at least for the dogs’ sakes).
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The idea of guardian vs owner is a tricky one both legally and morally. Officially, AAHA (american animal hospital association) opposes this legal change. In many ways, legally changing from owner to guardian would hampers us as veterinarians.

While morally I feel we should be the guardians of our pets, the legal atmosphere of this country makes changing the legal definition an iffy proposition at best.
Corey
 
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