Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!!!

[scrumie09]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

Hi,

I'm just a lurker, but I wanted to just chime in about Green Lake.

Mark Morrell (MWM) recommended that I use Green Lake for my wedding band. I worked with Melissa T, and it was a great experience. After the sketch, they actually made 2 wax models for me to decide on the final band. They weren't happy with the cast, so they redid it. They sent me photos during the entire process so that I could see what was happening, which was greatly appreciated.

This is the ring: http://www.greenlakejewelry.com/gallery/gallery.aspx?ImgID=55099. It may not be to everyone's tastes, but it was perfect for my husband and me.

I haven't bought anything from JBEG, but they've always have been really nice and prompt about my questions and e-mails. I'm sure you'll be thrilled with whoever you choose and the ring is going to be fantastic!

 

[E B]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

Granted, I don't design jewelry, but it seems like Shelly is being excessively cautious. I don't think the design she sketched out looks too much like the McT & McC at all. I'm sure they weren't the first to design a ring with diamond petals as prongs, and they won't be the last.

If she's too nervous to go anywhere near it, I'd move on. BUT, and this is just my opinion, since she's already put forth some effort, what about suggesting to her instead of pear sides, going with small marquise sides? That way you aren't replicating the roundness at the top like the McT & McC, but a more pointed edge, like a leaf? (Does this make sense?)

Just an idea. You're a keeper for putting such thought into this ring for your wife-to-be.

 

[maebelle]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

I agree with EB's sentiments.

 

[skingsland]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

Granted, I don't design jewelry, but it seems like Shelly is being excessively cautious. I don't think the design she sketched out looks too much like the McT & McC at all. I'm sure they weren't the first to design a ring with diamond petals as prongs, and they won't be the last.

If she's too nervous to go anywhere near it, I'd move on. BUT, and this is just my opinion, since she's already put forth some effort, what about suggesting to her instead of pear sides, going with small marquise sides? That way you aren't replicating the roundness at the top like the McT & McC, but a more pointed edge, like a leaf? (Does this make sense?)

Just an idea. You're a keeper for putting such thought into this ring for your wife-to-be.

Thanks for the suggestion. I replied to Shelly asking her to keep the shank detail of the MC2 ring instead of the profile, and switch the pears to small marquise sides. She said she'd give it a shot, and let me know.

Meanwhile, I'm leaning towards Erica at this point. I've asked her to prepare an invoice for the project, so I can start looking it over, and be ready to commit to her if I don't like what Shelly comes back with. I also think Erica has been quicker to respond to my emails; although maybe that's not a fair comparison since Shelly has actually been sketching up initial designs, which probably takes longer.

 

[Harriet]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

Steve,
If I were you, I'd tell each designer what elements you want and let her run with it. If Mc2 is your model, I fear that you won't be entirely happy with an "inspired-by" ring. I spoke at length with one of the Mcs (on a different project), and he explained the price difference between their settings and others. Do let each designer go where her creativity takes her. You'll be less likely to be disappointed. I hope you understand what I'm trying to convey.

 

[pixies]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

Steve,
If I were you, I'd tell each designer what elements you want and let her run with it. If Mc2 is your model, I fear that you won't be entirely happy with an "inspired-by" ring. I spoke at length with one of the Mcs (on a different project), and he explained the price difference between their settings and others. Do let each designer go where her creativity takes her. You'll be less likely to be disappointed. I hope you understand what I'm trying to convey.

I think that is great advice! I wasn't too sure exactly what I wanted so I just asked the designer to do what they thought would be best for the first go around and it was perfect for me! I think when people get too specific with details down to the 100th mm some artistry is lost. I think each designer has their own strength. Greenlake does lovely engraving. JbEG's rings seem flow-y and feminine. I think they both would make a great ring but like Harriet said it won't be an MC2 ring. Just embrace it for what it will be, a unique piece crafted with your fiance in mind and I'm sure it will be great!

I'd pick JbEG but I'm biased !

 

[FrekeChild]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

Any updates Steve?

 

[skingsland]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

Steve,
If I were you, I'd tell each designer what elements you want and let her run with it. If Mc2 is your model, I fear that you won't be entirely happy with an "inspired-by" ring. I spoke at length with one of the Mcs (on a different project), and he explained the price difference between their settings and others. Do let each designer go where her creativity takes her. You'll be less likely to be disappointed. I hope you understand what I'm trying to convey.

I think that is great advice! I wasn't too sure exactly what I wanted so I just asked the designer to do what they thought would be best for the first go around and it was perfect for me! I think when people get too specific with details down to the 100th mm some artistry is lost. I think each designer has their own strength. Greenlake does lovely engraving. JbEG's rings seem flow-y and feminine. I think they both would make a great ring but like Harriet said it won't be an MC2 ring. Just embrace it for what it will be, a unique piece crafted with your fiance in mind and I'm sure it will be great!

I'd pick JbEG but I'm biased !

That's good advice for another reason as well: I don't know exactly what I want, anyway! And even when I figure out what I like, there is a decent chance that it doesn't match what my girlfriend would like (as I learned with the platinum vs gold mixup). So yeah, I'm going to give direction when required, but try to let them run with it as far as the design.

So... I think I'm going with Erica at JbEG. I think either designer would produce something I like, but I just asked for a price estimate from Green Lake and she quoted me about double what Erica did. That surprised me, but it's my own fault for getting this far with GL and not thinking to ask about price. (I guess I was just assuming it would be in line with the prices on their website for rings?) Since I need to choose between the 2 anyway, that seems like a reasonable way to decide.

 

[Aoife]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

As long as you don't have a strong preference for either vendor, cost is as good a way as any for narrowing the field! I have no doubt that JbEG will do a fantastic job for you, and I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with. Please keep us updated.

 

[pixies]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

I can't wait to see what they come up with. I think their (JbEG) prices are very fair.

 

[velouriaL]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

Very exciting! Please keep us posted. I can't wait to see where this goes.

 

[SB621]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

Oh good I'm glad you decided to go with jbeg- i think erica is wonderful. can't wait to see what the finished product is like!

 

[skingsland]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

I told Shelly at Green Lake that her price was quite a bit more than I was expecting, and that I'm going with a different designer, and she responded with this:

I priced this design as being fully hand fabricated so that it had the qualities of the original you liked so much. We can carve and cast it for much less, but the details won't be quite as crisp. Our quality is still great for a carved and cast piece, it's just that certain levels of detail can only be accomplished by fabricating.

She then gave me quote for carving and casting the ring instead, which is a lot closer to Erica's quote. Fair enough, I thought; I should make sure I'm comparing "apples to apples" between JbEG and GL. So I asked Erica whether her quote was for a hand fabricated ring, or carved and cast, and here's what she had to say:

Our pieces are designed via CAD, then cast and hand finished (set, polished, etc.)

So, can you help me translate this? Cause I know nothing about jewelry construction. Are they using the same method? Or should I be comparing GL's lesser quote for "carved and cast" to Erica's?

Even if Erica's is closer to a "carve and cast", her price is still lower (by about $500, +/- some), but it's no longer a slam dunk based on price alone.

 

[chrono]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

The two methods are not the same and will never be. A fully hand fabricated piece will be able to show more detail, intricacy and fineness than a CAD/cast piece. To make fair comparison, you should be comparing GL’s lesser quote to Erica’s. A cast piece may come close to the quality of a handmade piece but it will not surpass it if the benchperson is highly skilled with the key word being highly skilled. Some designs are best to be fully hand fabricated while in other cases, it may not matter at all which method is chosen.

 

[Treenbean]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

Hi Steve
Some of the things that make McII designs so amazing is the hand fabricated aspect. It makes the petals so crisp and delicate. Their craftspeople use lots of different techniques and a lot of them are antique. I can't remember if you will be using yellow gold or not, but when finishing their Flora ring they "bloom" the gold after it is crafted. Meaning they dip the piece in nitric acid to eat away the other alloys so only pure gold lies on the surface.

Hand fabricate all the way! If budget alloys.

 

[movie zombie]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

steve, given the time and energy you've spent on this e-ring project, another $500+ is a drop in the bucket and worth it to get what you want. this is a ring that is going to be worn for many years.....do the cost analysis based on a minimum of 40 years wear and you'll be convinced to spring for the hand crafted look you're wanting.

MoZo

ps here's hoping its more like 60 years of wear! don't know your ages. my parents are at 65 years of marriage. may you be so blessed!

 

[pixies]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

Since the price comparison is gone, it just comes down to the designer *you* would like to work with. Don't feel obligated to go with one or the other since they've both spent time helping, just go with your gut.

 

[ladyvengeance]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

Just chiming in to wish Steve luck in finding the right setting!

 

[skingsland]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

Wow, I had no idea there was so much difference between designers in how they construct rings! Some use CADs, some use hand drawings, some carve and cast, some hand fabricate, some even "bloom" the gold... and none of this is really obviously something my girlfriend would want (AFAIK). So I'm at a bit of a loss on how to proceed; on the one hand, I have enough room in my budget to go with GL's hand fab project, but I'm not sure I (or my gf) would like it better than what Erica would produce. But I'm getting to the point where I HAVE to make a decision one way or another, because I'm starting to run up against a deadline of March, so I think I'm just going to go with Erica, and assume that I'll be happy with either designer.

As for next steps, should I get my Jeff White loose sapphire appraised, certified, insured, etc. before sending off for the setting? Or do you generally do that after the ring is finished?

Thanks again for everyone's advice, wisdom, and guidance. It's truly a huge help to have such a friendly, knowledgeable group of people to bounce my thoughts off of! I still can't tell if I'm making this process more difficult than it needs to be, or just scratching the surface of it... (no pun intended )

 

[movie zombie]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

before setting the stone, steve.

MoZo

 

[chrono]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

You may want to insure the loose stone ahead of time in case of damage to the stone during the setting process because most setters do not take that responsibility. Certification should come ahead of the insurance of the loose stone. After the ring is finished, it is recommended to be appraised, then insured as an entire ring.

 

[movie zombie]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

yep, 2nd evaluation done after setting.

MoZo

 

[Aoife]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

And if you are looking at a March date for your proposal, you should get started on the AGL report, insurance, etc. ASAP! I'm not sure how much time Erica estimated for making the ring, but I'd be pretty surprised if it took much under 4 weeks.

The clock is ticking.......!

 

[skingsland]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

So let me make sure I've got this straight; here are the steps that you're recommending I take:

1. Have the loose stone certified (AGTA or AGL)
2. Insure the loose stone
3. Have the stone set in a ring
4. Have the finished ring appraised (Richard Sherwood)
5. Insure the finished ring
6. Propose

Did I miss anything? Did I get the order right?

So now I gotta read up on where to send this thing for certification and insurance ASAP, cause Erica is gonna want me to ship this to her right away I bet. I'll search on here, cause I assume other threads have already covered this topic. Thanks again for the heads up!

 

[movie zombie]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

yes, you got it right and in order, too! if its lost during shipment you want it insured. the only way to get it insured is to have it sent to the lab.

you're a quick learner, steve.

MoZo

 

[skingsland]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

OK, AGTA has shut down their certifying business, so that leaves AGL or GIA in U.S. Of those, from searching on this CS forum, it seems like AGL is the better one. They've got 2 different reports: FastTrack Gembrief ($55) and Prestige Report ($120-240). I assume I want the Prestige Report?

http://www.aglgemlab.com/services/Prestige.aspx

If so, then the question is which Prestige report I want:

1. $120 Standard ID and Enhancement Report
2. $180 Origin Report, including ID and Enhancement
3. $240 Grading Report, including Origin, ID and Enhancement

http://www.aglgemlab.com/services/AGLrates.pdf

What do you think? My Jeff White sapphire IS heat treated, and is from Sri Lanka. So I'm thinking just the standard Prestige report is the way to go.

 

[T L]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

OK, AGTA has shut down their certifying business, so that leaves AGL or GIA in U.S. Of those, from searching on this CS forum, it seems like AGL is the better one. They've got 2 different reports: FastTrack Gembrief ($55) and Prestige Report ($120-240). I assume I want the Prestige Report?

http://www.aglgemlab.com/services/Prestige.aspx

If so, then the question is which Prestige report I want:

1. $120 Standard ID and Enhancement Report
2. $180 Origin Report, including ID and Enhancement
3. $240 Grading Report, including Origin, ID and Enhancement

http://www.aglgemlab.com/services/AGLrates.pdf

What do you think? My Jeff White sapphire IS heat treated, and is from Sri Lanka. So I'm thinking just the standard Prestige report is the way to go.

I think the standard prestige should be fine as long as it tests the stone for foreign elements (potential diffusion). I'm not saying that Jeff would sell a diffused stone, but this paperwork indicating that the stone has been tested for foreign elements, and none were found, is helpful in retaining the value of the gem and getting a realistic appraisal. I would find out which report does test for foreign elements. That is a more expensive test and the price of the report would reflect that fact.

It also gives peace of mind knowing with good certainty that there is no diffusion in the stone, as even the most honest dealers can't check for deep penetrating diffusion with standard lab equipment. The machines used to detect this treatment are very specialized and very very expensive.

 

[27nickel]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

Hello Steve,

I have been following your thread for awhile and love how much time and effort you are putting into the ring. I just wanted to give a personal vote for GL. I got several designs sketch for me from various jewelers (not JbEG) but decided to work with Krista at GL and they have been fastastic. Very responsive and definetly the most creative incorporation of my ideas!

Best wishes!

 

[skingsland]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

I think the standard prestige should be fine as long as it tests the stone for foreign elements (potential diffusion). I'm not saying that Jeff would sell a diffused stone, but this paperwork indicating that the stone has been tested for foreign elements, and none were found, is helpful in retaining the value of the gem and getting a realistic appraisal. I would find out which report does test for foreign elements. That is a more expensive test and the price of the report would reflect that fact.

It also gives peace of mind knowing with good certainty that there is no diffusion in the stone, as even the most honest dealers can't check for deep penetrating diffusion with standard lab equipment. The machines used to detect this treatment are very specialized and very very expensive.

I called AGL, and here's what the guy said:

All of their reports, including the cheaper and smaller (printed on a credit card sized paper) FastTrack GemBrief will look for foreign elements, such as Titanium or Beryllium Diffusion. In the case of Beryllium, if they detect the possibility of its presence, I'll need a second screening (for $100) to verify whether it's really there. Since they do the same due diligence for the $55 FastTrack as they do for the $120 full page Prestige Report, I'm planning to go with the FastTrack report:

http://www.aglgemlab.com/Services/FastTrack.aspx

The only problem is that he's out all next week at a gem show, and then when he gets back it's a 5-7 day turnaround to do this certification. So this is a 2 week setback, and I'm wondering if it's really worth it... The waiting is the toughest part.

I asked Jeff about certification, and he said it doesn't matter as much since the stone is heated, but that the cert would rule out things like "lattice diffusion". He said that he'd probably choose AGL over GIA in my situation, since they're more cost-effective and just as reputable.

 

[SB621]

Re: Got a great JW sapphire, let's find the perfect setting!

I think my opinion is the unpopular one here but I'm an instant satisfaction person- personally for me I wouldn't bother with the report right now. I would go have the ring made. I know this is not the popular opinion on here as many people pay to have their stones verified, but unless I spend over 3k for something I don't bother. With your sapphire I would probably do it down the line.