Graff , Tiffiny or Harry Winston

[solange]

You might want to try Mark at Engagement Rings Direct. They are in Manhattan and seem to have a great selection. Check their web site listed under Pricescope vendors..

Also, I wonder if the new Manhattan DeBeers store is a possibility.

 

[Carolynw]

They went to Debeers, not really great either.
Mark is in Manhatton, easier to get to. The one on Long Island won''t work,
they take the train in.

 

[mrssalvo]

If they can''t get to GOG, which is really too bad b/c that would be THE place to go IMO the definitely call and make an appt. with Mark T. Many times he can get it designer settings too so it would be worth asking him about the Michael b as well.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I''m afraid I know nothing about travel in NY, but I am sorry to hear that. I doubt ERD has the in-house stones that GOG does. But in that case, they should call Mark in advance so he can try to call some stones in for them. It''s too bad they can''t rent a car or something to get to Long Island.

 

[rainwood]

Carolyn -

I think it''s great that you''re helping your brother and his wife to get a lovely ring and spending so much time trying to make sure that happens. I''ve read your posts and wanted to follow up on some of the great things Nicrez said in her post.

There are lots of different kinds of diamond buyers. Most of the PS folks are what I''ll call "maximizers." We want the best and biggest diamond we can get for our budget and a great setting to put it in. How we get there doesn''t matter as much as maximizing quality and value. Lots of folks are what I''ll call "comfort" buyers. They go to a mall jeweler or Costco or the B&M jeweler their parents/friends went to because that''s the way they''re most comfortable. And there are the "mystique" buyers. They want the experience, the name, and the mystique of the high-end jewelers. There''s nothing wrong with any of these 3 groups.

The problems seem to come when someone tries to be in 2 groups at the same time. Although it''s possible to get an ideal cut, great value diamond from a mall or other B&M jeweler, it''s not easy because that isn''t their traditional business model. Cut hasn''t been a high priority on their list, nor is the sharing of technical information on a stone. And if you want the prestige value of a "name" or VIP treatment when you walk into the store, buying over the internet isn''t going to provide quite the same experience. I''m a "maximizer" but even I''m willing to admit that signing for a package from FedEx is a different experience than waltzing into Harry Winston. I don''t care about getting the VIP treatment from HW or dropping that name if someone asks about my ring, but if I did, internet buying wouldn''t fulfill that need. And no one going into HW or Tiffany or Cartier or Graff or any number of other high-end jewelers is going to get the most bang for their buck or lots of technical info. That''s not the business model for those jewelers.

It sounds to me like your brother and his wife are mystique buyers. Even though they''ve had less than perfect experiences at HW and Graff, they still want to go with Cartier or Tiffany or maybe Michael C. Fina. That tells me buying from one of those jewelers is really important to them. There''s nothing wrong with that. That''s who they are and that''s what will make them happy. The question is whether applying the Pricescope model of getting all the info, running the HCA score, etc. is going to work for them. That''s not the model for Cartier or Tiffany. Mystique is not about crown or pavilion angles. They''re not used to providing it, it''s not part of what they do best and it may be that their stones don''t necessarily have wow HCA scores. How are your brother and SIL going to feel if they end up feeling like none of those jewelers have the best stones, yet none of the internet sources have the mystique they want? Are they going to be happy? If not, you should let them go to Cartier or Tiffany, pick out a ring they love, pay the premium for the mystique, and go away with a great experience and the ability to say "I got it for her/he got it for me" at Cartier or Tiffany. And never know the angles or the HCA score. Will it be a perfect stone? Probably not, but it may be perfect for them because they got the experience they wanted.

And I say this with all the greatest respect for Garry and everyone else here whose information I used to get a great stone at a great value. That''s what made me happy. But it may not be what will make your brother and SIL happy.

 

[surfgirl]

Getting to Long Island is pretty easy from Manhattan...there are trains aplenty! If they''re serious about buying a great ring, why not take a quick train ride to Long Island?

Also, why not just send them to Leon Mege and let him source the stone for them and do a setting as well? I mean, now that they''re off Graff and HW, I''d make a beeline to Leon tomorrow and get this done already.

 

[Kaleigh]

It would be a shame if they didn''t take a quick train ride out to GOG.

Leon and ERD are great sources as well. But taking the time to sit down with Jonathon at GOG would be very helpful at this point.

 

[Carolynw]

Rainwood,

You pretty much summed it up but in better words then I could have done.
I understand what your saying.
But, I do believe that Cartier will provide the stuff you need, and Tiffiny,
maybe not Graff or HW as much.
The sales staff at Cartier, she was very knowledgable, and im sure if I asked for
even the angles, etc.. she would probably give them to me.
Which I plan on doing tommorrow for them.

They do want the experience of purchasing from these types of stores, not from the internet, so there isn''t much
i can do to push them. I can only help them not make a bad mistake by the excellent help you have all provided.

There has to be a sales person at these high end stores that can give the diamond specs, etc.. and tell
us if the stone is a well cut stone. Cartier was one I believe will do this.

But, your right, what you wrote made tons of sense. HW wants to know by today if they want the ring, or latest tommorrow, or they will not hold it, or give them 5% they offered off. 5% isn''t much for the expense of that ring in my opinion.

This weekend should be interesting, they are going to spend all day going to Cartier, Graff, Tiffiny, Michael Fina. Lets see what they come up with. I think they will have to avoid HW, its just after reading the specs on that ring, it just isnt'' the quality in the cut they were striving for. The color was nice though

 

[Beacon]

Date: 10/15/2007 9:49:35 AM
Author: Carolynw


Here are the specs returned on the HW ring:

Measurements: 7.28 x 7.33 x 4.54 mm

Carat Weight 1.51 carats

Color Grade E

Clarity Grade: VS2

Depth: 62.1%

Table: 61%

Girdle: medium to thick (faceted)

Cutlet: none

Polish: Very Good

Symmetry: Good

Cut Grade: Very Good

Fluorescense: None

I almost fell off my chair when I read this. For heaven's sake. How much did they want for this again? Does the stone look beautiful in person? Sometimes they might look good even with such specs, I guess (always an optimist). Did they give you a date on this GIA report? BTW, this thread is the most educational thing. Almost like a news expose. Gosh, I never knew.

 

[Hest88]

Date: 10/15/2007 9:39:46 PM
Author: rainwood
It sounds to me like your brother and his wife are mystique buyers. Even though they''ve had less than perfect experiences at HW and Graff, they still want to go with Cartier or Tiffany or maybe Michael C. Fina. That tells me buying from one of those jewelers is really important to them. There''s nothing wrong with that. That''s who they are and that''s what will make them happy. The question is whether applying the Pricescope model of getting all the info, running the HCA score, etc. is going to work for them. That''s not the model for Cartier or Tiffany. Mystique is not about crown or pavilion angles

Yes, but...the mystique comes from a perception of quality and exclusivity--of the kind that, a hundred or more years ago, most people couldn''t afford. One goes to these places because one assumes they supply *the best* and thus the consumer is willing to pay a premium because it is *the best.* One pictures a wizened old man, with 50 years of experience, painstakingly etching an exquisite piece of jewelry the likes of which few people on earth could create. One pictures a similar man polishing the perfectly cut diamond he''s been hunched over for hours, then holding it up to catch the last rays of the setting sun, and smiling as it flashes orange and red, blindingly bright.

But, the sad truth is, as we''ve seen from both the proof of shoddy workmanship and poorly cut stones, the *mystique* may be all that''s left now. Some of these companies are living off of glories decades past, like some legendary movie star''s shallow and lazy grandson still trying to capitalize off the family name. We are not dazzled by such fakery, and I hope that as more people become educated they learn to seek out the companies who still offer quality rather those whose mystique masks plastic and paste.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

I don't know much about cars to make a solid analogy...but here goes an attempt:

it makes me imagine a company building a car to the specs and assembly of an old first generation "Ford Focus" then slapping a "Lexus" badge on it. Would you really want to buy that car just for the name "Lexus" when you could get a larger, safer, better looking, more reliable and better performing top of the line "Honda" for half the price?


Being that we are talking about pretty nice new car kind of money it seems a reasonable analogy. I have a hard time finding many faults in that analogy as well Sure the ford focus will get you where you want to go under a lot of conditions. But when the diamonds are not special and the craftsmanship is not particularly unique...well...seems like that is pretty much what is happening.

(at the very least I say take the time for a trip out to the "Honda" dealership after you have done a little research on your own and discovered the truth about the "Lexus" that happens to be available in your price range)


EDIT: This is of course not how Lexus operates, just an analogy...but of course I would never have guessed that these big diamond brand names operate that way either...........

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

sorry, I know here I go again. But I was also thinking maybe we shouldn't judge them too harshly? being so exclusive and expensive they may well have had much more merchandise over the years than they have had demand for it.

As we all know cut grading and technologies have changed alot over the recent years have they not?

So it could be that these big name brands are now focusing only on these new more modern top of the line cuts....but they would surely still have alot of that old surplus hanging around which they have to get rid of wouldn't they?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 10/15/2007 9:39:46 PM
Author: rainwood
Carolyn -

I think it''s great that you''re helping your brother and his wife to get a lovely ring and spending so much time trying to make sure that happens. I''ve read your posts and wanted to follow up on some of the great things Nicrez said in her post.

There are lots of different kinds of diamond buyers. Most of the PS folks are what I''ll call ''maximizers.'' We want the best and biggest diamond we can get for our budget and a great setting to put it in. How we get there doesn''t matter as much as maximizing quality and value. Lots of folks are what I''ll call ''comfort'' buyers. They go to a mall jeweler or Costco or the B&M jeweler their parents/friends went to because that''s the way they''re most comfortable. And there are the ''mystique'' buyers. They want the experience, the name, and the mystique of the high-end jewelers. There''s nothing wrong with any of these 3 groups.

The problems seem to come when someone tries to be in 2 groups at the same time. Although it''s possible to get an ideal cut, great value diamond from a mall or other B&M jeweler, it''s not easy because that isn''t their traditional business model. Cut hasn''t been a high priority on their list, nor is the sharing of technical information on a stone. And if you want the prestige value of a ''name'' or VIP treatment when you walk into the store, buying over the internet isn''t going to provide quite the same experience. I''m a ''maximizer'' but even I''m willing to admit that signing for a package from FedEx is a different experience than waltzing into Harry Winston. I don''t care about getting the VIP treatment from HW or dropping that name if someone asks about my ring, but if I did, internet buying wouldn''t fulfill that need. And no one going into HW or Tiffany or Cartier or Graff or any number of other high-end jewelers is going to get the most bang for their buck or lots of technical info. That''s not the business model for those jewelers.

It sounds to me like your brother and his wife are mystique buyers. Even though they''ve had less than perfect experiences at HW and Graff, they still want to go with Cartier or Tiffany or maybe Michael C. Fina. That tells me buying from one of those jewelers is really important to them. There''s nothing wrong with that. That''s who they are and that''s what will make them happy. The question is whether applying the Pricescope model of getting all the info, running the HCA score, etc. is going to work for them. That''s not the model for Cartier or Tiffany. Mystique is not about crown or pavilion angles. They''re not used to providing it, it''s not part of what they do best and it may be that their stones don''t necessarily have wow HCA scores. How are your brother and SIL going to feel if they end up feeling like none of those jewelers have the best stones, yet none of the internet sources have the mystique they want? Are they going to be happy? If not, you should let them go to Cartier or Tiffany, pick out a ring they love, pay the premium for the mystique, and go away with a great experience and the ability to say ''I got it for her/he got it for me'' at Cartier or Tiffany. And never know the angles or the HCA score. Will it be a perfect stone? Probably not, but it may be perfect for them because they got the experience they wanted.

And I say this with all the greatest respect for Garry and everyone else here whose information I used to get a great stone at a great value. That''s what made me happy. But it may not be what will make your brother and SIL happy.

Rainwood I am all for people being able to enjoy an experiance. I understand the symbolism. I do not sell online - I run a couple of high end stores and very few of my clients ask for angles and %''s etc. (We do always use the ideal-scope and aSET though).

But at the same time, I think it is appropriate that people shopping at high end stores should be given white glove silver service....Yes Maam, no Maam, three bags full Maam, coming right up. After all that is the promise of a top end store. and if 30K is beneath them, then your family could phone around and find a slaesperson in a branded store where they can get that service - Rapaort did a secret shopping thing 2 months ago and found huge variations in service and knowledge at different stores in the same upmarket chains.

If all else fails - step down a level to where they will be given the right level of respect.

But with the greatest of respect to Mark and GOG - these may be too far down the experiance scale? These companies offer 101% education and hand holding, but they are not stylish, sophisticated and elegant.

In a way I feel sad that
A. We on this board have spoiled their experiance
B. The best in our trade have let them down

 

[rainwood]

Date: 10/16/2007 1:28:16 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 10/15/2007 9:39:46 PM

In a way I feel sad that

A. We on this board have spoiled their experiance

B. The best in our trade have let them down

Garry -

I was thinking exactly the same thing, but didn''t come right out and say it. They are spending what most might consider a small fortune, but may be small potatoes to HW et al. so they don''t get the first-class experience they were hoping for and deserve. That''s a shame. Too bad your store is such a long flight away. I know I''d love to shop there.

 

[egs1]

As I said in an earlier post, the service we received at Tiffany and Cartier was great. That included giving information and locating rings. We did however get very bad service at one Tiffany so didn''t deal with them. It is easy to walk out and not go back.

The range of diamonds they can bring in is huge too, although more so at Tiffany (for the 1895 solitare and Classic Tiffany anyway). Cartier also carry diamond inventory at NY which they can have mounted for you in their setting, however you lose the 30 day return policy (unless damaged).

If you do not receive excellent service at Tiffany or Cartier, take Garry''s advice and phone around until you find a salesperson that gives such service. You may also wish to consider after-sales service as a factor in your purchase too.

BTW our experience at HW was the same as yours - limited range, high prices, very low quality cut by PS standards

 

[Carolynw]

I think the HW was probably the one that really was not so good. When they asked about the return policy, they said, Why would you ever want to return it?. So, they sort of felt embarrassed. Then they said, with a very disgruntled look, if you have to, i guess store credit is all. Also, they didn''t really treat you nice, I mean, Cartier really sat you down in a private room, really great lady, didn''t push you or rush you, answered all your questions intelligently. But, at HW, it was like they brought us into the big room, sat us down and quickly showed us the 1 ring. We then had to decide by this morning, or forget the 5% off they gave. Something isn''t right about that like they say above, we are spending 40,000.00 with tax. Also, why can they not bring more to view, I guess there are none anyway, that''s what they said, that 1 ring was it. The whole experience was not good and if they bought from HW and went through with it, they would feel like dummies afterward because of buying a diamond that is not the standards they were hoping for.
I think going to Tiffiny and Cartier still might be the best option. Graff was nice too, but again, only 1 ring to look at. Takes all the fun out of the experience. They really appreciate all that you have written here for them, so don''t think that your not helping because they are not choosing an online vendor. They are still not totally opposed to it either, they are just going to give it another shot in New York City and see if someone can help them. It''s that they do want the experience of buying at this high end stores, and they are hoping it will work out again, they are going to try this weekend. I will let you know how it goes again.

 

[Sharon101]

One of the things that I was curious about was whether any of the stores offered to get in specific diamonds to meet the clients specs. I believe that Tiiffanies do this, or at least search around their stock on the computer. Is it reasonable to expect the store to have your perfect diamond waiting their in stock. It is expensive to carry diamonds and more so to carry the full range of cuts and sizes etc.

Where I live, even the better jewellery stores have to get in diamonds if you want something more than the average in size or cut.

Mind you, even in some of the very exclusive stores, when I asked what they could tell me about the cut, here is the answer

Store no. 1) It is a round cut, ie a circle
Store no. 2) It is cut in Amsterdam

So, I can see that there might be a general problem with many vendors re. the cut issue. I dont think it was that long ago that nobody asked about the cut at all.

 

[gontama]

Date: 10/15/2007 11:41:11 PM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards
sorry, I know here I go again. But I was also thinking maybe we shouldn''t judge them too harshly? being so exclusive and expensive they may well have had much more merchandise over the years than they have had demand for it.

As we all know cut grading and technologies have changed alot over the recent years have they not?

So it could be that these big name brands are now focusing only on these new more modern top of the line cuts....but they would surely still have alot of that old surplus hanging around which they have to get rid of wouldn''t they?

This is what I suspect. Tiffany for example obviously has some very nice diamonds. But they also have many diamonds that are not considered among the best. They may be tyring to get rid of some of their inventories. Or eventually, I guess, they may end up re-cutting some of those tradionally-cut diamonds. For this very reason, quality verification tools such IS/ASET seems almost a must when shopping around established brands.

 

[Carolynw]

The stores that offered to get the diamonds with my specs were Cartier, and yes Tiffiny looked on their computer.
HW didnt have any except that 1 ring, and Graff only had the 1 ring.
Cartier returned with only 1 ring also. When I asked about more, they said they are only allowed to ship in 1 ring from another place, per time. So if you didn''t like, they could go see if they could get more.
Tiffiny did look on the computer, but again the sales lady was really rushed, and not focused.
Maybe it was us too, but it was crowded, and it felt like she wasn''t addressing our needs.
But we need to go back and try again to Tiffinys and Cartier.

 

[Sharon101]

Hmmm, it does feel all a bit up hill! Its like going to a restuarant that has a policy of not altering their menu, and still begging them to swap the fries from that dish instead of the mash with this dish!!!!

Im not judging as I would never pay a premium for a shop brand, and doubly so if I knew I was getting lower quality. But I sort of feel sorry that these buyers arent getting their `mystique` or a top bargain from the net!!! Its like they are caught in the middle now, doomed by knowledge that they cant unlearn, and wanting the best from both worlds.

I hope it works out and they can get some enjoyment in the end.

A point that comes to my mind is that buying diamonds with knowledge can make it very stressful! It must be nice to just walk into a shop and walk out with a little blue box.

I personally couldnt do that as it goes against the grain, but I can appreciate that it would be fun!

 

[solange]

Date: 10/16/2007 9:58:17 AM
Author: Carolynw
The stores that offered to get the diamonds with my specs were Cartier, and yes Tiffiny looked on their computer.
HW didnt have any except that 1 ring, and Graff only had the 1 ring.
Cartier returned with only 1 ring also. When I asked about more, they said they are only allowed to ship in 1 ring from another place, per time. So if you didn''t like, they could go see if they could get more.
Tiffiny did look on the computer, but again the sales lady was really rushed, and not focused.
Maybe it was us too, but it was crowded, and it felt like she wasn''t addressing our needs.
But we need to go back and try again to Tiffinys and Cartier.

If the sales person at Tiffany was "rushed and not focused" she was wasting your time. Yours is not a low budget for Tiffany. They go down to I VS2 and and also sell small, much less expensive stones. This does not sound like a great shopping experience.

If she was too busy to wait on you, you should have asked to have someone else help you. I would call the store in advance and ask to speak with a manager. Tell them your experience and tell them that you are making a special trip into the City and want to meet with someone who will spend the time and address your needs. Maybe that is just my way and you are more polite but when I find someone is not giving me the attention I deserve, I assert myself and let my dissatisfaction be known.

After my search through the high scale stores and the Diamond Exchange, I was delighted to buy on the net and receive good service and a great selection as well as being able to speak at length with a knowlegeable person.

 

[Nicrez]

And it''s all a matter of perspective... and I am sorry, but I do feel strongly about this.

You can sit here and debase every luxury retailer that ever charged over internet prices for a diamond. In my opinion, Rainwood hit the nail on the head pretty much. Except I would not call it a "mystique" buyer. There is no mystique when it comes to luxury. Nothing mystical about craftmanship and artistic design. Some work can withstand the test of time, and the refined workmanship is evident years and year later after all the fads are done. There are brands that once were luxury, and now cater to the masses. There are still some luxury makers out there that do not. It is up to the buyer to find the difference with their eyes. To me, it''s like complaining about Hermes for the prices on a leather bag, and going to Coach saying it''s more affordable and better. It''s just different. Different clients, different products, different market.

Again, this is about 10% AT MOST of buyers who are so analytical that they want a measured light return before purchasing. And that''s great. They are so educated by what they want that buying at the right place is easier and can often be done in the comfort of their own homes. However, diamonds have always been a luxury good, not a commodity (as some are trying to make them) and not a need. Take the fact that even Royals have engagement rings of gemstones or even diamonds that rarely exceed 3cts (and they have the money to buy larger stones), it seems that in the US (mostly) everyone is intent on having BIGGER and brighter. And those who do, find it. Not everyone does though.

If you truly wanted the absolute best and were to chastize the luxury brands about their "inferior" diamonds with such zeal, then everyone who has a rare D, FL Golconda diamond step up. These retailers sell some of the most impressive stones and pieces ever made, although they come at a price. I believe the priceless Hope diamond (which once belonged to Louis XIV) was donated by HW to the Smithsonian. But I see they are chastized for having a deeper depth on a 1.5ct.

Honestly, cut is ONE factor of the diamond game. As we know it''s not a factor that has always been a criteria in pricing or buying, until fairly recently in the game. So as more people''s taste centers on BIGGER and BRIGHTER, then the cutting style will reflect. Point cuts, table cuts, single cuts, rose cuts, Mazarin cuts, OECs even some cushion cuts were all a style. If you want to see it as a progression of the evolution of cut, you can. I see it more as a personal preference like a marquise or princess cut. I personally like a 60/60 stone, and that''s after seeing many of the brilliantly cut H&A, and ASG 000 stones. I think they look clinical and interchangeable, and I prefer the look of fire with a bit less brilliance that you can achieve in older cuts. Some older cuts I don''t like, but it''s like Contemporary or classical art, versus modern.

So if I shop, and I want a brand name, I go for the brand name if I like the item because I approve of the stone choice, the material, and the quality. If I don''t, I go elsewhere. But to say that Graff or other retailers who don''t subscribe to the H&A notion are inferior, is just saying that they don''t value that type of cut over what they currently buy, or their clientelle don''t care for it either.

Let''s be realistic and think business. If I made a lot of money selling high end items, wouldn''t I want the BEST materials? If I didn''t, then my brand would drop and I would be out of business and not notable for hundreds of years. "Mystique" can only go so far. Now if it was a proven fact that H&A stones where the best, why would I not use them in my pieces? Again, it''s like saying marquise are the BEST cuts, so all my pieces should feature Marquise. If that was the thinking, companies like Diamonds in the Rough are in for a major let down. They don''t even FACET stones. And briolettes and rose cuts would be completely annihalated and everyone would wear a H&A diamond on everything. I for one would change careers at that point.

Modern Jewler Article on Rose Cuts resurgence

I will still maintain that everyone has preferences and to make one thing superior over another is silly and incorrect. I have seen some modern brilliant cuts I ADORE, but I maintain that everyone has the right to choose materials for their jewlery, and the makers. If you want your stone to be a modern round brilliant with excellent test scores, then this is the place to get one. If you want HW, Cartier, Tiffany, Chaumet, Bulgari, Garrard, DeBeers, Graff, Taffin, or even JARS Paris, please do not go in looking for your H&A stone, as they will not be marketing it. It''s their art and expertise that have made them who they are. Some will accomodate, based on how much they want your business. It''s not personal, it''s a matter of cost over renvenue. If they have it in stock, they can help, if not, the purchase (their revenue) may not warrant the extra effort (or cost). As a business person to me, this is how any business is run. I hope they can be nice about it, but that would be their main reason.

So, the industry is not letting you down. You are shopping at the wrong place for the item you seek. Don''t go into a Saks looking for a calculator. They may have some, but it''s not their specialty and you won''t like the selection or price. Go to a store that specializes in what you want, and their selection will be greater, therefor their price will be better. To each buyer there is a market, and to each item there is a buyer.

Good luck in your search, and if I can do nothing with this very long post I only ask that people keep in perspective this:

Although more people are buying luxury brands nowadays, it doesn''t mean they are truly luxury items. It simply means the brand has extended their line to fit the budgeting luxury buyer. And if that product is inferior, then buy what is to your liking and stop chasing the brand name unless you are finding what you want IS what you are getting at the price you can afford.

 

[Carolynw]

Cartier did more research and found this one, this is one with the two bagettes on the sides:
7.39 - 7.42 x 4.56 mm
Carat W: 1.52
Color: F
Clarity Grade VS2
Proportions:
Depth: 61.6%
Table: 58%
Girdle: Thin to Med Faceted
Cutlet: None
Finish:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluor: None
Additional Infor:
Crown Angle: 35 degrees
Crown Height: 15%
Pav Angle: 41.4
Pav Depth: 44%
Star length: 50%
Lower Half: 80%
Cut Grade: Excellent

Gia #14498566

 

[elmo]

I think Garry might tell you that they'll have to keep that one meticulously clean for it to look good

. Pavilion is deep for the Pricescope crowd but not a bad stone. I'd personally want no lower than F or G for something like this, so I think it's a step in the right direction, still not traditional "Tolkowsky" proportions which would have less depth in the pavilion and a smaller table. That might be one way to phrase a more specific cut request that the traditional diamond school can relate to. I wonder if the NY store could show loose stones to be made into a specific style? That might have advantages to shipping finished rings around the country.

p.s. Nicrez writes a very astute post above I think. If it was for me, I'd want it with a nice OEC

.

 

[Carolynw]

These general parameters:

table 54-57%

depth 60-62%

crown angle 34-35

pavilion angle 40.6 to 41

polish and symmetry should be at least very good to excellent

(It doesn''t seem that off, the one from Cartier that they are going to look at on Saturday)

 

[gontama]

But with the greatest of respect to Mark and GOG - these may be too far down the experiance scale? These companies offer 101% education and hand holding, but they are not stylish, sophisticated and elegant

Opinion is fine, but Garry, with greatest respect to you (really), I am very disappointed with your statement above.

Who can possibly decide where the sophistication should reside? How do you know how people appreciate things? I say high end brands have been very sophistiacted because no one else has access to sufficient supply of rough and they do have craftmanship. That's fine. If that's all one should consider, we should all forget about the c/p combo, IS, ASET whatever. Sure, Super D+ D/IF 3 ct is the king even now. I do value D/IF very very much, for the record.

Brands (high end) cannot stand still they will be left behind otherwise. No exception to gem stones business, yes it is a business. Have you seen recent technology improvement in M3 for example? (I need to convince partner that I should be ready for GTR for that). They are beautiful, not just strong. A "RED" car is not just super, but comes with beauty inside.

Modern people may ovserve the "sophistication" in the core and may appreciate the combination with their own choice. I do not mean to talk about generation gap, but hope "brand" deliver the promise, which they seem to fail in what might often be viewed ad "engine".

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 10/16/2007 3:57:43 PM
Author: Carolynw

These general parameters:

table 54-57%

depth 60-62%

crown angle 34-35

pavilion angle 40.6 to 41

polish and symmetry should be at least very good to excellent

(It doesn't seem that off, the one from Cartier that they are going to look at on Saturday)

Carolyn, unfortunately it IS outside those guidelines. Here is what that stone gets on the HCA:

Light Return: Good
Fire: Fair
Scintillation: Fair
Spread or diameter for weight: Very Good
Total Visual Performance 4.9 - Good - Only if price is your main criterion

So in other words, this is not a great stone either. You want a score of 2 or less. I will agree with Nicrez that a stone does not have to be hearts and arrows to be beautiful. But I am sorry, there is no excuse for these jewelers not to AT LEAST use GIA Excellent or AGS0 (ideal) !! Would I pay $40,000 for a ring with a "very good" cut 1.5 ct. stone??? No way!!!

The funny thing about the mystique issue is that it doesn't sound like they are getting the greatest service anyway. The sad thing is, I know people make an appointment with Jonathan and he spends two or three HOURS with the person, if needed. By the end of the appointment, they would know more than the sales people at those high end stores! But really, we've tried hard to help them understand that they could get BETTER QUALITY at HALF the price, and it sounds to me that they really must not care about quality or price. I hope you understand that those of us sticking with this topic just wanted to see them get the very best diamond and setting for the money, and that would be Good Old Gold and Leon Mege for the setting they are after.

 

[Carolynw]

So, its not the perfect stone either. It doesn''t sound like it''s going to be easy then.
When the GIA report on the cut says: Excellent, does that really not mean excellent?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 10/16/2007 7:34:21 PM
Author: Carolynw
So, its not the perfect stone either. It doesn''t sound like it''s going to be easy then.
When the GIA report on the cut says: Excellent, does that really not mean excellent?

Carolyn, if you put the numbers in the cut advisor, you will see the boxes where AGS0 and GIA Excellent fall. GIA Excellent obviously is a much wider range than AGS0. So we usually try to find GIA Excellent stones that would also fall within the AGS0 box. I really wouldn''t want a stone that scores "fair" for fire and scintillation.

https://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 10/16/2007 6:54:08 PM
Author: gontama

But with the greatest of respect to Mark and GOG - these may be too far down the experiance scale? These companies offer 101% education and hand holding, but they are not stylish, sophisticated and elegant

Opinion is fine, but Garry, with greatest respect to you (really), I am very disappointed with your statement above.

Who can possibly decide where the sophistication should reside? How do you know how people appreciate things? I say high end brands have been very sophistiacted because no one else has access to sufficient supply of rough and they do have craftmanship. That''s fine. If that''s all one should consider, we should all forget about the c/p combo, IS, ASET whatever. Sure, Super D+ D/IF 3 ct is the king even now. I do value D/IF very very much, for the record.

Brands (high end) cannot stand still they will be left behind otherwise. No exception to gem stones business, yes it is a business. Have you seen recent technology improvement in M3 for example? (I need to convince partner that I should be ready for GTR for that). They are beautiful, not just strong. A ''RED'' car is not just super, but comes with beauty inside.

Modern people may ovserve the ''sophistication'' in the core and may appreciate the combination with their own choice. I do not mean to talk about generation gap, but hope ''brand'' deliver the promise, which they seem to fail in what might often be viewed ad ''engine''.

I guess it might not have been the nicest thing I ever wrote G, but it seems to me that C''s family are looking for something that is different to what they might find in an internet oriented vendor. A certain cache''. Now what they should do to get a nic ring, vs what they might want to do - all different ways of looking at the shared problem.