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Harry Winston Oval Micropave Replica Buying Advice

If you look at the Collection of Halo threads you will see many different halos by VC, SK, LM and ERD (as well as other vendors). Hopefully this will help you make a choice along with the quotes/ and speaking to vendors.
 
redsoxfan027|1354454603|3320436 said:
What specifically is lacking in the CAD vs. Handmade micropave halo's?
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Before we go any further, please don't hold the fact I was born in the Bronx against me:)

There's quite a few differences between hand forged and cast micro pave rings.
I'll go over a few that I find to be important in terms of style.
1) Prongs- for a true claw prong on your center diamond, you need a hand forged ring
2) Delicacy of elements: The struts holding up the halo are a great place to see this aspect- a fine hand forged ring should have struts that look delicate- and are finished 360 degrees- as opposed to wires that are actually cast, and really can't be polished all the way around like a true wire. I like to sometimes see a curve in the struts- and other times I like a straight piece, depending on the shape of the stone
3) fitting- on a well done hand forged piece, the girdle of he diamond will be set into the halo, as opposed to above- which is more common on a cast piece. You may also notice that a really nicely done hand forged halo follows the shape of the center diamond more closely.
4) holes drilled on the ring; Many cast rings ( not all) will have holes drilled under the diamond- where a true "cut down" micro pave setting will not have a hole under the diamond. This can also add to duability concerns
5) durability- although some of the world's finest rings are cast- or parts cast- the physics of extruded metal are superior.
On a 1.8mm shank, that's a real consideration.

these are just a few= but very important differences we find.

Hope this helps!
 
Very intersting points, thank you for the clarification.

I just spoke with VC and he provided me with this diamond's cert. It is a 1.31 F SI1 for $7,700. What do you think, is it a good price/specs?

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Attachments

I like that stone from the picture. Any chance of an ASET from him?

The price seems good. It is a GIA stone right?
 
I know nothing about ovals but I definitely think that is beautiful from the picture. I think VC has impeccable taste so if he picked it out I'm sure it is stunning in RL.
 
Yes, it is Gia. I attached the certificate under the picture. Please let me know what you think.
 
Nice spread, deep enough to avoid a strong bowtie, and a tiny table for fire.

Ask VC for an ASET image and if he has a Sarin for crown height (not that important, if he doesn't have a Sarin). Alternately, if he doesn't have either as him for a good video.
 
redsoxfan027|1354298543|3319352 said:
Hello All,

I have been lurking over the past 6 months gaining as much knowledge as possible, but am now at the point where I want to finally make my purchase. I went to Harry Winston with my future fiance to have her try on the HW micropave in oval, and she absolutely loved it. It was right around a 1ct center stone. I have a number of questions that I am struggling with:

1. She has extremely skinny fingers (size 4); how large is the maximum I should go, keeping in mind that the 1ct Oval looked great on her hand. I would love to get her as big a ring as possible while keeping my budget around the $10-11k range.
2. I plan on getting it designed by either Steven Kirsch, Leon or Victor. I have gotten a quote from Victor for $4,700 for the setting, but feel that this is rather steep. Does the PS community think that his craftsmanship is worth the extra money?
3. In order to maximize value, what spec range should I shoot for considering that this is an oval diamond? F/G/H, VS1/SI1/SI2?

Thank you in advance for your help with this extremely important decision, I have been truly impressed by this amazing community in my time researching.

Regards,
redsoxfan027
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I for sure am no expert as many of the others that have replied to you already but here is my opinion. I think you need to go to Good Old Golds website and check out his videos. It really helped me out alot. Their website is very informative. You would be amazed and what you can get by just dropping down to the I color range. I am a big stickler for cut quality and I personally would not go below SI1 clarity and ask if you do pick a SI1 clarity if it is eye clean and be to ask for a minimal bowtie effect. I think that quote for the setting is very steep. I would look into a already made replica or something very very simlar for way way way less. p.s. The less you spend on a setting the more you can spend on the diamond. :naughty: I was dead set on a Simon G. disigner ring and found one basically identical for about half the price from a different company. Just a few thoughts.
 
I think it looks like a very nice oval from the photo but I second the idea of getting an ASET or a video if you can. Also, if you're going to go with an SI1 I would want to be sure the stone is eye clean. Although SI1 stones can be a great value if I was given a ring where I could see an inclusion I would not be thrilled w/ that. Since you're putting it in a halo I'd try to shoot for a G-H at the lowest color and a VS2 rather than an SI1.

Also, re: the cost of the setting - there is lots of info on this board re: hand forged vs. cast but in short, a hand forged HW replica halo made by the vendors you are considering (Victor, Steven, etc) will be closer to the real thing and much more delicate than a cast ring. And I think 4-6K for that kind of setting work is a fair price but you should def seek quotes from Steven, ERD and maybe Leon Mege for comparison to get a real feel for the going market rate for your ring.

You might find this thread helpful:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/comparison-photos-of-my-victor-canera-sk-leon-ring-setting.166496/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/comparison-photos-of-my-victor-canera-sk-leon-ring-setting.166496/[/URL]
 
When SI1 stones are eyeclean and the inclusions pose to threat to durability they are a wonderful value. And with Ovals and fancies, you have to take the nicest looking stone you can find OVERALL, and can't be too focused on finding a "G VS2"... the nicest stone you find could be an eyeclean SI or a VVS. That's how it is with fancies. Same thing with color. You can't say, I want an E, and only an E. Because the nicest stone you find could be an F or a G. You have to look for ranges. That why we say G or better, or H or better and eyeclean. Because that gives you the best chance of finding the nicest stone you can and still have it be clean and white.

The stone VS found looks lovely. And with that faceting, there is a high chance of it being eyeclean. If Victor says it is eyeclean it is.

The only time you "need" to stay at VS2 or above is for step cuts. Ovals are not step cuts. They are brilliant cuts and therefore hide inclusions better. And even with step cuts you do get the occasional (though VERY rare) eyeclean SI stone.

It is important when you give advice to distinguish between your own personal preferences, such as VS2 or better clarity, and the facts. Which are that as long as a stone's inclusions are safe (no feathers breaking the surface) and do not pose durability concerns, and the inclusions are not visible to the naked eye there is no reason a person cannot buy an SI1 stone with confidence.
 
I appreciate your advise Gypsy but your advise is just as much a matter of opinion as my own. While it may be your opinion that SI1 stones are totally ok to buy in fancies, I'm not sure that is a fact or that everyone would agree.

In any event - I think SI1 stones can indeed be a great value but I just want to make sure the original poster understands that many SI1 stones are not eye clean. Yes, brilliant stones and fancy cut stones hide inclusions much better than step cuts. This stone may indeed be a great buy if it is actually eye clean (which is why I suggested he ask VC if it is indeed eye clean). I think he should have all of the info so he can make an informed decision - it is a huge purchase.
 
Lovingwarmdiamonds|1354756784|3323658 said:
I appreciate your advise Gypsy but your advise is just as much a matter of opinion as my own. While it may be your opinion that SI1 stones are totally ok to buy in fancies, I'm not sure that is a fact or that everyone would agree.

In any event - I think SI1 stones can indeed be a great value but I just want to make sure the original poster understands that many SI1 stones are not eye clean. Yes, brilliant stones and fancy cut stones hide inclusions much better than step cuts. This stone may indeed be a great buy if it is actually eye clean (which is why I suggested he ask VC if it is indeed eye clean). I think he should have all of the info so he can make an informed decision - it is a huge purchase.
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My view on clarity is that if its eye clean and safe i dont care. You dont wear the GIA cert on your finger you wear the stone. You WANT good clarity because that means you can't see any inclusions and because you want there to be no structural danger to the stone. If you get both of those things with an SI1 then there you go. The lower you go down in clarity the higher chance you don't reach those two goals, but if VS says its safe in terms of eye cleanliness and durability, than I dont think there is any reason to go turn down the SI1. Especially if the color is in your color range. Personally I think it looks beautiful.
 
Cuts less important for fancies. It's not the king like it is with rounds. Fancies need to be judged with your eyes and and ASET. don't worry about the specs as much
 
Good to know, I will post the ASET images as soon as he provides them.
 
redsoxfan027|1354765684|3323801 said:
Thank you for your replies.

It looks like this is the diamond VC is going to bring in - http://www.bluenile.com/oval-diamond-1-carat-good-cut-f-color-si1-clarity_LD02959387?click_id=494396769

I am worried about the optics being that it is only a good cut. Thoughts?
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It's not that cut is less important. It's that the basic numbers on the certificate on the certificate are not predictors of quality of light performance they way they are with rounds. No lab grades ovals for cut they way they do rounds, so vendor designations about cut are meaningless as there are no standards and frequently what they use is simple ranges for table and depth measurements which for fancies are so incomplete as to be meaningless. So Blue Nile's rating of "good" is not based on any criteria that means anything, so it is irrelevant.

Light return and performance are very important in ANY diamond. That's what people mean when they refer to "cut quality" and that still applies to ovals and fancies. It's just that the numbers aren't enough to tell the majority of story about those things, they way they can be with rounds, so ASETs and other tools are strongly relied on.

I think it's fine that VC called it in. You have a great contender in that F SI1 already. You aren't obligated to buy anything you don't like.
 
Gypsy|1354767038|3323821 said:
redsoxfan027|1354765684|3323801 said:
Thank you for your replies.

It looks like this is the diamond VC is going to bring in - http://www.bluenile.com/oval-diamond-1-carat-good-cut-f-color-si1-clarity_LD02959387?click_id=494396769

I am worried about the optics being that it is only a good cut. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

It's not that cut is less important. It's that the basic numbers on the certificate on the certificate are not predictors of quality of light performance they way they are with rounds. No lab grades ovals for cut they way they do rounds, so vendor designations about cut are meaningless as there are no standards and frequently what they use is simple ranges for table and depth measurements which for fancies are so incomplete as to be meaningless. So Blue Nile's rating of "good" is not based on any criteria that means anything, so it is irrelevant.

Light return and performance are very important in ANY diamond. That's what people mean when they refer to "cut quality" and that still applies to ovals and fancies. It's just that the numbers aren't enough to tell the majority of story about those things, they way they can be with rounds, so ASETs and other tools are strongly relied on.

I think it's fine that VC called it in. You have a great contender in that F SI1 already. You aren't obligated to buy anything you don't like.
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Excuse me, by cut I mean the system they determines cut grade is less important. Obviously the cut itself matters, but what the cert says it is less important. Apparently what I meant and what I said weren't the same :lol: :roll:
 
Wow, I really like that F-SI1.
 
It's a winner in my book. I'm envious of it, actually. It's got a very slight bowtie in some light, but it blends really well so as not to be apparent most of the time. Once you stick a halo around it it will really add to the brightness of an already bright stone.

Honestly... I don't know if I'd keep looking. Eyeclean, bright, WHITE, no real bowtie at all. It's really lovely.

I would buy it. If I was looking for an oval. And a vendor presented me with that as an option, I would buy it and call it "George" and never ever let it go.
 
I'm a bit nervous about pulling the trigger. He said his ASET machine is broken, so I really want to see that prior to committing. What do you guys think of the price at $7,700?
 
HI:

WOW. She's a beaut.......

For your comfort, would VC send it elsewhere for ASET images?

cheers--Sharon
 
Gypsy said:
It's a winner in my book. I'm envious of it, actually. It's got a very slight bowtie in some light, but it blends really well so as not to be apparent most of the time. Once you stick a halo around it it will really add to the brightness of an already bright stone.

Honestly... I don't know if I'd keep looking. Eyeclean, bright, WHITE, no real bowtie at all. It's really lovely.

I would buy it. If I was looking for an oval. And a vendor presented me with that as an option, I would buy it and call it "George" and never ever let it go.
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I am far far far less of an expert than Gypsy but I love ovals so I tend to look at lots of pictures and videos whenever I can. And that one is fantastic!!! I'd love to see an ASET just because I bet it would be really nice. But I wouldn't send this one back.
 
What do you guys think of the price though? Is it a good value?
 
I love that oval! I would buy it. Good value I think!
 
redsoxfan027|1354841393|3324963 said:
What do you guys think of the price though? Is it a good value?
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I think it's a fair price.

Here are 2 F SI1's at the same/similar carat weight at other vendors. And they cost more.

http://www.bluenile.com/oval-diamond-1-carat-good-cut-f-color-si1-clarity_LD02959387?click_id=442420433 (I think this is the same diamond, actually). THe price listed on the PS search is $8,199.00 for that one.

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-3352734-1.33-carat-Oval-diamond-F-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=3352734&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com and $8,154.00 for this one.

So yeah. Price is good.
 
Thanks all - really appreciate you continuing to answer my questions!!

I have decided to go with this diamond, now I am having second thoughts about going with VC as I just got a quote from IDJ for $2500 vs VC @ right around $4300. Is a VC setting worth $1800??? This is such a complicated process!!!
 
well wont that put you at 12K? was your budget firm or did you have 1k worth of wiggle room?
 
redsoxfan027|1354838998|3324925 said:
I'm a bit nervous about pulling the trigger. He said his ASET machine is broken, so I really want to see that prior to committing. What do you guys think of the price at $7,700?
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Just for reference. Here are my thoughts on the ASET in this case.

Asets are great when you can see them in person, or when you are stuck with just one still image of a stone and want to see what the light performance of it is. I own one and I love it. Why? Because I have a fancy shape diamond AND because it is so much fun to see it move under the ASET and catch light and turn off and on. A single ASET image is great only as a PIECE of the puzzle though. It's not the puzzle itself, because it shows the diamond in a static state, not in movement. A lot of the reason we rely on them is because great videos are hard to come by. But I prefer a good video because a single ASET image only shows the performance of a still stone. When you wear a diamond it is NEVER really still. It moves.

So I'm not saying EVERY vendor's video can take the place of an ASET. Or that even most can. What I am saying is that they are tools and having both is for redundancy and confirmation in this case, because that video was a very good on in terms of showing how the stone flashes on and off and where it does so and under what conditions. And what that shows was performance above average for ovals. And really... what what you want to know.

You would ask if Victor can send the stone to Patrick Davies at your expense for an ASET. He's an appraiser in LA used by PSers. Then you can talk to Patrick about it. Or if you are in the LA area, you can go see it yourself.
 
I suppose I have the room, but I don't want to go down the path of hand made vs. cast if there is not a noticeable difference from a vendor such as IDJ or ERD. Has anyone seen a VC in person as compared to an ERD or IDJ setting?
 
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