Help choosing centre stone for right hand ring

[T L]

GRS not trustworthy???!!!! Millions upon millions of dollars at auction would strongly disagree with that!!!! Here is a 2.5 million dollar necklace as an example of their reputation...

GRS is a reputable lab. I think the problem arises at their ridiculous metaphors used to describe color and quality of gems, which is done mostly for the trade. AGL's prestige report is highly scientific and unbiased towards the gem trade. For a very expensive piece, to accurately describe quality, I would always go with AGL first.

Treatment is only one aspect of a piece, which I believe GRS can handle fine, and origin as well. I have my doubts with their ability to properly judge other qualities which can make a piece worth $1 or $1,000,000. Color is of significant importance for example, and when I see brownish red rubies described as "pigeon blood," or "magnificent red" or a variety of blue sapphires in all kinds of saturations, all described as "velvet cornflower," it's disconcerting.

I wish more labs would take on AGL's lead, but then I understand the trade wanting to use GRS more because this ill-descriptive, flowery language, is tempting to put in front of a consumer. It's more profitable to GRS obviously.

 

[Starzin]

starzin, the thread about the FTA you linked me to is amazing - I haven't read it all but enough to find out the 5% tax is not payable when I (and it seems many others) assumed it was. To be honest, I thought you may have had a cold or weren't feeling too well when you wrote about it yesterday! lol Thanks again

Also, I made contact with Holloway Diamonds today. The lady I spoke to mentioned they may have a couple of sapphires similar to what I have in mind but no rubies. She said all their stones are completely "natural", not even heat treated, so size would need to be sacrificed given my budget...

You mean a tipple too many? No, not guilty, but I recommend you do read it all because Fedex and customs are apparently a bit hit and miss (or were then, I don't know if anything's changed) and there's lots of good information in it, it also opens up the possibilities for you because we can help you search online.

So are you looking for a ruby or a sapphire now? Do let us know how the second viewing of the first rings goes and if you try to take close up pictures we can try to help evaluate them a little more.

Good idea to make contact with Holloway's - are you going to view any? Tell them you were sent by Pricescope and there may be a discount.

 

[ganache]

You mean a tipple too many? No, not guilty, but I recommend you do read it all because Fedex and customs are apparently a bit hit and miss (or were then, I don't know if anything's changed) and there's lots of good information in it, it also opens up the possibilities for you because we can help you search online.

So are you looking for a ruby or a sapphire now? Do let us know how the second viewing of the first rings goes and if you try to take close up pictures we can try to help evaluate them a little more.

Good idea to make contact with Holloway's - are you going to view any? Tell them you were sent by Pricescope and there may be a discount.

Lol, yes a tipple too many!

Am open to either a ruby or sapphire. Although I'm still unsure about how I would set the ruby, I definitely want the sapphire to be set in a halo/cluster - a setting similar to this one (taken from 1st dibs but I can't find the original link, apologies):


Thank you for the tip about mentioning pricescope to HD- they said they'll be in touch next week once they have sourced some sapphires to view. It's the Canterbury store.

On another note, what are people's thoughts about these two sapphires from Africa Gems?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvgLtcwvjJM

 

[ganache]

Sorry TL, I missed your post. Thank you for the thoughtful response, it's much appreciated.

 

[Starzin]

Thank you for the tip about mentioning pricescope to HD- they said they'll be in touch next week once they have sourced some sapphires to view. It's the Canterbury store.

On another note, what are people's thoughts about these two sapphires from Africa Gems?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvgLtcwvjJM

Excellent news on Holloway - hopefully they will find something that suits and that you will love that would make things a lot easier eh?

As to the Africa Gems...
The one on the right has much better saturation and looks to be a lovely colour however... videos are flooded with light and my concern is that this might be a bit dark in hand. See the black bits? You want as little of that as possible since it's going to show much more when set. Ideally, they should still be blue, even if a deeper colour - and that's when the price goes up unfortunately.

I think I prefer this one but you still haven't told us a budget so I don't know if this will blow it -
http://www.africagems.com/blue-sapphire-g2000-2786.html
video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2kncMeRZN4

Have you seen this one at Mastercut? It's one of the Anagee sapphires.
http://mastercutgems.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=7931
and this
http://mastercutgems.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=7934 - stunning colour, a little off the perfect round but can be either accentuated or diminished by a jeweller who knows what they're doing.

 

[Starzin]

Sooo. do any of these rubies appeal?
http://www.mineralminers.com/html/rbygems.stm

Most come with a GIA report and although the cuts are mostly native and therefore a bit wonky/windowed, don't let it put you off. Jerry Newman is a magician at recutting pavillions for a transformed gem while keeping the face up size and many PSers have used his services - about $50/ct last I heard so definitely not expensive in the scheme of things.

See here http://gemartservices.com/recutting.htm

Also a heads up on the fact that Australia does not have a restriction on the import of Burmese gems (the way the US does) as far as I am aware.

 

[Starzin]

Sooo... where are we up to Ganache? Did you revisit the original sapphire and ruby rings over the weekend? Thoughts on second viewing?

Several lovely sapphires have been posted lately including this from Brad at the Gem Trader
http://thegemtrader.com/Oct13BSapphirePage.htm

 

[ganache]

Hello Starzin! I hope you had a good weekend. Thank you so much for the suggestions

I love the first two sapphires you found, if only the Africa Gems one was a little more square (not as rectangular) and the cushion from Master Cut Gems is beautiful, just a little too small. Although I'm quite flexible about the shape of the ruby (either oval, step/emerald or cushion, just not round), I'd like the sapphire to fit a (better executed) version of the setting I posted a couple of days ago. My budget is 15-18k, I could probably stretch it a little but would prefer not to. I want this piece to become an heirloom.

The weekend was busy! After revisiting the rings in the first post of this topic, the sapphire has been eliminated from the search - I pretty much knew immediately that I should have felt more excited to see it if that makes sense - even though I've yet to see a sapphire in real life like some of the ones some online vendors have. The ruby, on the other hand is lovely and we ended up discussing ideas about setting it (not very fond of the current one).

It's a shallow cut and has some inclusions that look like white wispy threads when looking at it through a loupe. The ruby is not accompanied by a lab report, but the gemologist has agreed to send it to SPECTRA in Queensland if I commit to purchase (I could always back out of the sale if the report comes back negating her claims). It's described as Burmese with minimal heat treatment only. The quote she emailed yesterday was $19,000 for the stone alone, and $23,500 for the ring with a cluster of 12 old cut diamonds with a total weight of .75ct. Do you think this is too much (provided it's certified)? I haven't entered into a price discussion with her yet, but I think she could come down a little. Here is a close up pic taken by the jeweller - mine are pretty terrible and will follow soon...

 

[ganache]

And here are a couple more photos (this was the best I could do!):





It's 1.62 ct.

 

[chrono]

On another note, what are people's thoughts about these two sapphires from Africa Gems?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvgLtcwvjJM

Sorry I missed this last week. Both stones are a bit on the dark side. The one on the right is definitely out because you plan to bezel and halo it. The one on the left might pass muster but it is still a risk given that you are purchasing sight unseen.

 

[chrono]

I understand the appeal of a very hot red colour. The ruby is indeed windowed (50% of the stone's surface area) so this area will be sort of dead looking whereby you can see your finger and setting through the stone instead of seeing the facet/stone. It will be slightly different in colour and not sparkle like the edges of the ruby. However, you've seen it in person and I take it that it does not bother you at all. Given the cost of the ring, I cannot sleep at night not knowing whether I paid a fair price or am overpaying because I do not know the extent of the treatment.

You can compare colour and pricing here:
http://www.africagems.com/unheatedruby.html
http://www.africagems.com/ruby05to99carats.html

Pricing looks quite high for the quality of the ruby.

 

[Starzin]

Well, I'm pleased you had an interesting weekend! I'll get back to the sapphires in a minute.

I'm going to be a little more blunt than Chrono simply because I know how difficult it is in OZ to find quality coloured gems, let alone a fine ruby or sapphire.

The "whitish wisp" indicates flux healing but we don't know whether it's minor, moderate or heavy. As Chrono also said, it is likely to only sparkle around the edges of the stone and not in the middle.

The jeweller is asking the equivalent of $au11,728/per carat ($us10,197) for this. Then they want $4,000 on top for the setting, which is probably about right. While you have seen it in hand and we haven't, frankly? it's outrageous.

If you really want a ruby we can help you track one down, but it will be overseas and it's likely you may have to ship and return one or two before you find "the one". This may also be true of the sapphires depending on what Holloway comes up with today.

I have just bumped a ruby thread we did a couple of months ago for Jeffd who had a similar budget - which is healthy for a ruby. You can follow the links in that for interest though the Gemfix is gone (see below for pic - it was around $12,000 from memory - the 1.41 cushion from Robert Genis appears to be still available, http://www.preciousgemstones.com/141mongrufs.html and there's a video in the PS thread. Jeffd had a couple of threads but this was the last. Now perhaps you can see why I said the price you were quoted for this ruby is outrageous.

My computer is on a go-slow that is painful at the moment, I'll be back later.

 

[ganache]

Oh my goodness, Chrono and Starzin, thank you so much! You've pretty much stopped me from making an expensive mistake! I owe you guys big time

Being a complete newbie, I kept noticing how large the "table" was in proportion to its size and the other facets - and it did bother me. When I mentioned this to the gemologist, she reinspected with her loupe and assured me that it was perfectly proportioned. As to the window, I did notice how see through (when looking directly from above) the stone was and that there was no sparkle but she fervently denied it and seemed almost offended by the very suggestion. I then remembered Liao's post about transparency and thought this must be a good thing... also, not having seen many real rubies in my life, I assumed that only diamonds are meant to sparkle - I know, extremely silly of me.

Anyway, thank you very much to both of you. Your altruism and the way you share your expertise so freely is very touching.

Starzin, I'm reading the ruby thread.

Meanwhile, if anyone sees a sapphire or ruby similar to what I"m after, please feel free to share

 

[Starzin]

Sorry, had something urgent come up. To continue on the ruby theme for a minute...

It would be worth asking for a video of this ruby [ur]http://www.africagems.com/ruby-oval-g2k-5345.html[/url]
Price / Carat 5775 (total $8,143) minimal window
Dimensions 7.5 x 5.6 mm
Clarity Eye Clean
Shape Oval
Treatment Heat

Sapphires
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-1-Carat-B...5173?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item51c57c1825
Chrono's comments from a month ago I am unfamiliar with this vendor. Picture looks nice but I would follow up with a video or picture of the sapphire on the back of the hand for a better colour reference. Again, it is very expensive for a heated stone but it looks well cut.

Another from the same seller http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-19-Carat-...8300?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item5b06cf3b0c

Wonder Jewellers has ten pages of sapphires for you to have a look at.
http://stores.ebay.com/wonderjewele...rch&LH_TitleDesc=1&_ipg=&_sop=1&_sid=73327925
I saw that link in another thread and went to look and found the second one after I'd sorted for blue sapphires. Note that we have not come across this seller before that I'm aware and there are no negative comments on Toolhaus.org, I wonder if RockyTalky knows anything about them since they are selling a lot of diamonds with GIA reports.

Back to sapphires...
atggems has a few to consider on two pages (link to next page at bottom). Sadly they haven't put the LxWxD on some of these but you would still need to ask for a video or hand shots if any of them appeal.

I'm sure the other PSers will add their views.

 

[Starzin]

Sorry that post is a bit of a marathon but I don't know how much time I will get over the next 24-48 hours.

Trust your instincts!! I know it's difficult when you're there and the sales assistant (SA) is telling you all sorts of wonderful things. Listen to your gut, take a picture and ask us

While this may not be the colour you're looking for, it illustrates how a well cut ruby middle should look - whether it's red, blue or brindle - the whole gem should sparkle!!!!

 

[Starzin]

One more quick thing...

I believe you're thinking 6.5mm is too small however I would suggest this exercise when you have time and inclination.

Measure and draw out a 6.5mm square, then draw circles around it the size of the diamonds you think you want, then cut around the outside of that and stick it on your finger for size.

I'm thinking the diamond halo you want will add around 3-5mm each side of the centre stone (including metal) - using 4mm as an average suddenly the itty bitty thing is 14.5mm wide. How does that sit hmmm?

 

[chrono]

Starzin did an amazing amount of backtracking, investigation and digging to come up with all the suggestions. My hat off to her devotion of time and effort.

Correcting a link for Stazin:
http://www.africagems.com/ruby-oval-g2k-5345.html
$8,143 for 7.5 x 5.6 mm oval, heated

 

[Starzin]

Aaaw... shucks Chrono *Starzin looking down at circling toe on floor*.
Thank you for the kind words but you and many others do a lot of the heavy lifting around here so I'm pleased to be able to help out when I can - it's what all PSers do Besides, I had to find a way of closing all those tabs!!!

Thanks for fixing the link

I got quite a shock over at atggems... I hadn't been there in a while and they've had a face lift Still no way to link directly to a stone though, gotta wade through them all.

 

[ganache]

Starzin, thank you so much! You've given me so many options to think (and drool!) about. I'm sure you've heard this before but you really are a star

I'll let you know once I have a shortlist. Hope you have a lovely day

 

[Starzin]

Ah, thank you for the kind words. I've been buried in an audit for a week so...now I have a little time to come up for air... where are we up to?

Did you see any HD sapphires? Do you have a shortlist of any of the ones listed above? It's just that people are unlikely to post links to more stones until we get some feedback on the ones already provided.

Being a complete newbie, I kept noticing how large the "table" was in proportion to its size and the other facets - and it did bother me. When I mentioned this to the gemologist, she reinspected with her loupe and assured me that it was perfectly proportioned.

This has been niggling at me... does anyone know if this is even possible?

 

[ganache]

Thanks Starzin! As promised here is a (not so brief) update on the search.

Holloway Diamonds sourced 3 sapphires that I viewed over the weekend one of which was quite lovely (the other two being either too violet or too dull/inky) - it scintillates and glimmers even in dim lighting and very close the colour I had imagined. The "but" though is that it's not square (7.5 x 6.5 mm approximately) and asking price is $14,500 (it's heated and about 2.5 ct). I was also surprised at how small it looks A halo would do wonders though like you suggested... How much would a platinum bezel setting with a scalloped diamond halo set me back? Here is a pic (excuse the chubby fingers):


I'm waiting for atggems to send through more pics for a couple of the sapphires you suggested (egaj-11-40 and egaj-11-52)- apparently they're relocating so unable to take photos until later this week.

And although Mastercut gems don't have what I'm looking for at the moment, Dana (who has been amazing) tells me he will be getting more stock in a few weeks.

There is also this 3.18ct contender from Diamonds by Lauren:

http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-sapphire-318ct-blue-cushion-cut-sapphire-r6156
It's the right shape and a good size and price point. My only concern is the black "bow tie" I'm seeing in the centre. I emailed enquiring about it and David commented that it has been recut to minimise windows. He's also happy to send to AGL for a cost of $350. What are your thoughts?

Last but not least we have this unheated Burmese sapphire
http://www.preciousgemstones.com/304bushfs.html
Here is a pic of the sapphire alone in "bad lighting" (making it look greenish on my monitor)

It looks much prettier when photographed next to the rubies

My reservation here is that I'd be paying a premium for its purity when heat is not an issue for me - also, do you think the right setting could make it appear more cushion-y/less oval? The ruby on the left is the 1.14 Burma ruby - it looks stunning!
http://www.preciousgemstones.com/114burufs.html
By the way, Robert has been an absolute pleasure to deal with.

Sorry for the super long post, I have a very active 9 month old baby and don't get a chance to update often... Your help is very much appreciated though

 

[Starzin]

Apologies for calling you and then disappearing myself! (and sorry that no one has stepped in in the meantime).

Holloway Diamonds sourced 3 sapphires that I viewed over the weekend one of which was quite lovely (the other two being either too violet or too dull/inky) - it scintillates and glimmers even in dim lighting and very close the colour I had imagined. The "but" though is that it's not square (7.5 x 6.5 mm approximately) and asking price is $14,500 (it's heated and about 2.5 ct). I was also surprised at how small it looks A halo would do wonders though like you suggested... How much would a platinum bezel setting with a scalloped diamond halo set me back? Here is a pic (excuse the chubby fingers):

It does look to be a lovely colour even at that distance. My comment would be that if you are going to insist on the sapphire being square - and not a millimetre out, you may wait a while for those exact specs. The danger of course is that while you're waiting, other lovely stones are being bought. They look bigger once they're set

However, looking at the price of both the DBL and Genis' sapphires which seem to be on a par, I do wonder about the price of the HD sapphire.

But you may well have moved on from all this since you were waiting on pictures... did you get them? Where are you up to now?

 

[chrono]

The HD sapphire is lovely but terribly overpriced. I'm with Starzin that going for a perfect square is asking for too much unless you have no time frame to consider. The RG sapphire is windowed and looks better next to the rubies because it is sitting on a blue plate, which makes it look bluer.