Help Finding Padparadscha (Or Spinel) for E-Ring

[Huldak]

I'm on my iPhone and can't seem to copy the picture, but Jim McCormick just posted a 2.64 "pad like malaia garnet" on FB for $400.

 

[austinj]

Perfect!!

 

[Marlow]

1 carat for 170 $

http://www.multicolour.com/detail/?76294290

1,32 ct for 220 $

http://www.multicolour.com/detail/?1188669823

Only some examples...


700 for a small Sri Lanka spinel (0,85 ct) with iron stains ( the orange hue) is far to expensive - paid less then 100$ for larger stones from Tan's Ebay stores.

Right? I could compare some of Tan's stones to other higher priced vendors selling native cut stones, and Tan's prices are so reasonable. You just need to be careful and wait for the right stone. But.......I noticed Tan has raised his prices considerably for his nicer spinels in the last few weeks. Maybe the salad days are over.......................

O.K. - spinel is much more expensive now - but it took me only a few minutes to find two similar, larger and much cheaper stones offered by Multicolorgems.

In shows I still get them cheaper. But the WF gem is an overpriced stone - 823 $ pct is ridiculous for this quality.

Thegemtrader offered extrafine burmese red spinel - many here showed fine Mahenge - they are expensive now - but not these commercial qualities.

And I don't understand which "articles" help to understand why this vendor offers so many overpriced gems...??

 

[T L]

I'm on my iPhone and can't seem to copy the picture, but Jim McCormick just posted a 2.64 "pad like malaia garnet" on FB for $400.

Malayas are notorious for shifting color to brown in fluorescent light.

 

[austinj]

Ed has got many articles about taking care of the environment while mining, taking care of miners and their families, making sure that they get fair prices for the stones and same with the cutters ect. He also does tons of charity work and writes many articles about all this on both his sites. I really don't understand why he gets a bad rap for overpriced stones when he is doing such a good thing? If you don't want to fork out the cash I totally totally get it especially because many of you collect stones in high volume But I don't think his name should be dragged through the mud. But anyways this is another topic for another tread perhaps? I am new here so I really mean no disrespect to anyone. I hope its not coming off that way!

 

[chrono]

They are many other precision lapidaries here and also not on PS who do the same, while offering reasonable pricing at the same time.

 

[austinj]

Really? I haven't read about another person who does anything to the scale of what he does. You know nobody can really know for sure why his prices are what they are. Maybe we should not speculate and someone should just call and talk to him?

 

[chrono]

Look around at other lapidaries' FB pages; they work very hard, modestly and do not self-promote, which I highly respect. Some help with animal rescue/abuse and others are focused on helping/teaching the local miners.

 

[austinj]

We can talk about this probably till we are blue in the face and not get anywhere. Let's just agree to disagree and respect each other's individual opinions on the vendor. I really don't want this to be a big thing. I really appreciate all you guys on PS!

 

[chrono]

We can talk about this probably till we are blue in the face and not get anywhere. Let's just agree to disagree and respect each other's individual opinions on the vendor. I really don't want this to be a big thing. I really appreciate all you guys on PS!

Sure; I only wanted to point out that there are other unsung lapidaries and vendors who do the same; not just Ed.

 

[austinj]

Ok great thanks Chrono! . Speaking of this.. I was thinking we should make in the recommended vendor section a part for ethical gemstone vendors? I know there are a few and for people like me it would be helpful. What do you think? I only know three.

 

[chrono]

A new thread with a poll would be a good first step, I think.

 

[mochiko42]

Semi related question, how can we add vendors to the list? Is there a vetting process? Eg I'd like to request the addition to the list of Carey Robbins (whose stones are sold on Barry's site but also has his own Etsy store) and a few other vendors.

 

[chrono]

Semi related question, how can we add vendors to the list? Is there a vetting process? Eg I'd like to request the addition to the list of Carey Robbins (whose stones are sold on Barry's site but also has his own Etsy store) and a few other vendors.

I think so; it's been a while since it was discussed. Something to the effect of starting a new thread and relating the experience, with perhaps several others backing up their positive experience? I think this method was agreed upon to reduce the number the hit and run self-promoters and to prove the consistency of the customer service and quality of workmanship. Can anyone confirm?

 

[LoversKites]

Semi related question, how can we add vendors to the list? Is there a vetting process? Eg I'd like to request the addition to the list of Carey Robbins (whose stones are sold on Barry's site but also has his own Etsy store) and a few other vendors.

I think so; it's been a while since it was discussed. Something to the effect of starting a new thread and relating the experience, with perhaps several others backing up their positive experience? I think this method was agreed upon to reduce the number the hit and run self-promoters and to prove the consistency of the customer service and quality of workmanship. Can anyone confirm?

Here is the thread with the entire discussion: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/specifications-for-vendors-to-remain-on-recommended-list.208652/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/specifications-for-vendors-to-remain-on-recommended-list.208652/[/URL]

It wasn't exactly agreed upon, but suggested that a vendor would need a minimum of 3 PS threads with positive reviews to qualify. No one argued against the idea either and I think it was the most realistic and simple suggestion there.

 

[Marlow]

Ok great thanks Chrono! . Speaking of this.. I was thinking we should make in the recommended vendor section a part for ethical gemstone vendors? I know there are a few and for people like me it would be helpful. What do you think? I only know three.

First - you can buy a 200 $ spinel and donate 500 $ instead of buying this 700 $ spinel....

Second - I donate a lot of money too - I pay taxes in Germany...

Third - I want to buy gem for a fair price and it is my decision whether I donate some money or not...

And finally - does it mean a custom cutter who tries to buy good rough or a lousy cut stone for recutting is unethical??
Am I unethical course I try to get the best price???

And what is the definition of an "ethical vendor"???

 

[austinj]

Well I was thinking an ethical vendor as in takes care of environment and makes sure that miners are getting fair price ect. It is a thing with all sorts of products called fair trade.
Marlow nobody is saying you have to buy anything from him at all. And like I said before I do understand your point of view. So if you want to donate seperately that's great! But I know that I'm not the only one interested in ethical fair trade vendors. Am I wrong? And no you are not unethical for wanting the best price. This is just simply a vendor I think is a really good person and doing good things and I like to support him. I'm not saying anyone has to agree with me. But I think all this speculation when nobody knows his overhead costs for everything he does and therefore bashes him is not very good energy at all. At least maybe talk to him yourself and get some answers before coming to these conclusions. Maybe I am wrong about him I don't know. I am just going off what I've read and the feeling I get. So if you prove me wrong then ok. But until then your not going to convince me he's doing anything bad. So please please please can we drop this and get back to the original topic? You have your opinion and I have mine. The cheese stands alone

 

[LoversKites]

Well I was thinking an ethical vendor as in takes care of environment and makes sure that miners are getting fair price ect. It is a thing with all sorts of products called fair trade.
Marlow nobody is saying you have to buy anything from him at all. And like I said before I do understand your point of view. So if you want to donate seperately that's great! But I know that I'm not the only one interested in ethical fair trade vendors. Am I wrong? And no you are not unethical for wanting the best price. This is just simply a vendor I think is a really good person and doing good things and I like to support him. I'm not saying anyone has to agree with me. But I think all this speculation when nobody knows his overhead costs for everything he does and therefore bashes him is not very good energy at all. At least maybe talk to him yourself and get some answers before coming to these conclusions. Maybe I am wrong about him I don't know. I am just going off what I've read and the feeling I get. So if you prove me wrong then ok. But until then your not going to convince me he's doing anything bad. So please please please can we drop this and get back to the original topic? You have your opinion and I have mine. The cheese stands alone

I like to keep an open mind, actually, and I'd love to hear Ed's point of view and to understand the overhead costs you mention. I hope he chimes in with clarification (though he'd first have to ask the mods if it is ok). Can you link me to place/s on his site regarding this?

 

[Marlow]

Well I was thinking an ethical vendor as in takes care of environment and makes sure that miners are getting fair price ect. It is a thing with all sorts of products called fair trade.
Marlow nobody is saying you have to buy anything from him at all. And like I said before I do understand your point of view. So if you want to donate seperately that's great! But I know that I'm not the only one interested in ethical fair trade vendors. Am I wrong? And no you are not unethical for wanting the best price. This is just simply a vendor I think is a really good person and doing good things and I like to support him. I'm not saying anyone has to agree with me. But I think all this speculation when nobody knows his overhead costs for everything he does and therefore bashes him is not very good energy at all. At least maybe talk to him yourself and get some answers before coming to these conclusions. Maybe I am wrong about him I don't know. I am just going off what I've read and the feeling I get. So if you prove me wrong then ok. But until then your not going to convince me he's doing anything bad. So please please please can we drop this and get back to the original topic? You have your opinion and I have mine. The cheese stands alone

Yes - this would be the best...

I like your reaction - whenever you need help, an advice or a good source for gems I would help you.

Fair trade is a good thing - no question. And WF is a very professional self promoter - no question too...

 

[deskjockey]

Well I was thinking an ethical vendor as in takes care of environment and makes sure that miners are getting fair price ect. It is a thing with all sorts of products called fair trade.

With things like gemstones, which can pass through so many hands, this gets very tricky. Some of my favorite vendors are recutting stones they've found, or collect rough from various sources at gem/trade shows, or through connections. Any of the people along that chain can say they are ethically sourced but I don't know much about any ways to actually check up on that and verify it. And even when you can confirm it, like there's a certification or something, it's extremely hard to know if fair trade/ethically sourced products are benefiting people in the way we'd like to think:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/05/25/surprise-fairtrade-doesnt-benefit-the-poor-peasants/

When it comes to gemstones, I think the most obvious thing you can point to is the kimberley process with diamonds, but even that is flawed (between only addressing conflict/blood diamonds and not working conditions, and by the fact that it doesn't guarantee there's no smuggling going on, buying a kimberley process diamond isn't the guarantee you might hope it is).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10307046
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/11/06/kimberley-process-zimbabwe-action-mars-credibility

I feel like with gemstones, the only REAL way to 100% guarantee that mining hasn't contributed to human rights abuses or poor working conditions or what have you is to be present when it's pulled out of the ground.

Then again I am still a newb and I'm sure others have more thoughts on that, and might even correct me!

 

[austinj]

Loverskites, thank you for that . I hope he chimes in too! I will link some stuff tonight when I have some time. My son is a handful right now! At the point between crawling and walking so he's into everything!

 

[deskjockey]

My son is a handful right now! At the point between crawling and walking so he's into everything!

It only gets better from there, LOL.

 

[PieAreSquared]

Well I was thinking an ethical vendor as in takes care of environment and makes sure that miners are getting fair price ect. It is a thing with all sorts of products called fair trade.

With things like gemstones, which can pass through so many hands, this gets very tricky. Some of my favorite vendors are recutting stones they've found, or collect rough from various sources at gem/trade shows, or through connections. Any of the people along that chain can say they are ethically sourced but I don't know much about any ways to actually check up on that and verify it. And even when you can confirm it, like there's a certification or something, it's extremely hard to know if fair trade/ethically sourced products are benefiting people in the way we'd like to think:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/05/25/surprise-fairtrade-doesnt-benefit-the-poor-peasants/

When it comes to gemstones, I think the most obvious thing you can point to is the kimberley process with diamonds, but even that is flawed (between only addressing conflict/blood diamonds and not working conditions, and by the fact that it doesn't guarantee there's no smuggling going on, buying a kimberley process diamond isn't the guarantee you might hope it is).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10307046
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/11/06/kimberley-process-zimbabwe-action-mars-credibility

I feel like with gemstones, the only REAL way to 100% guarantee that mining hasn't contributed to human rights abuses or poor working conditions or what have you is to be present when it's pulled out of the ground.

Then again I am still a newb and I'm sure others have more thoughts on that, and might even correct me!

DeskJockey: Fantastic points I ponder all the time; the Forbes article you posted was excellent. Instead of thread-jacking, I am going to go start a new thread on "ethical gemstones". Bye!

 

[austinj]

Great thank you piearesquared! I will post links in that thread.

Ps- I really like the last garnet that was posted for the E ring!

 

[austinj]

Ok so after all this talk about ethical gems ect. And honestly I had been thinking about this for a while anyways.. I want to give the OP an offer. I am the one who purchased the Jim McCormick pad spinel ( when I was sure you weren't getting it and was prepared to give it up if you changed your mind!). Anyways I put half down on the stone and I am supposed to pay him the rest by May 16. If you still really want it, you can pay the other half and I will let Jim know and he can ship it to you. No strings! The only thing I ask is that you pay it forward sometime in the future for someone. Doesn't have to be that big just even buy the persons coffee behind you in line or something. I have enough stones anyways. It's up to you just thought I would throw it out there!

 

[Marlow]

Well I was thinking an ethical vendor as in takes care of environment and makes sure that miners are getting fair price ect. It is a thing with all sorts of products called fair trade.

With things like gemstones, which can pass through so many hands, this gets very tricky. Some of my favorite vendors are recutting stones they've found, or collect rough from various sources at gem/trade shows, or through connections. Any of the people along that chain can say they are ethically sourced but I don't know much about any ways to actually check up on that and verify it. And even when you can confirm it, like there's a certification or something, it's extremely hard to know if fair trade/ethically sourced products are benefiting people in the way we'd like to think:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/05/25/surprise-fairtrade-doesnt-benefit-the-poor-peasants/

When it comes to gemstones, I think the most obvious thing you can point to is the kimberley process with diamonds, but even that is flawed (between only addressing conflict/blood diamonds and not working conditions, and by the fact that it doesn't guarantee there's no smuggling going on, buying a kimberley process diamond isn't the guarantee you might hope it is).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10307046
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/11/06/kimberley-process-zimbabwe-action-mars-credibility

I feel like with gemstones, the only REAL way to 100% guarantee that mining hasn't contributed to human rights abuses or poor working conditions or what have you is to be present when it's pulled out of the ground.

Then again I am still a newb and I'm sure others have more thoughts on that, and might even correct me!

EXCELLENT POST!!!

And this is nearly impossible!!!

And btw. - if a miner steals a rough gem from his boss to sell it it is unethical too.

Fair trade in gems is imo extremely difficult - people are greedy - they wanna make money.

In Europe, USA/Canada and Australia mining is most times family buiness ( red Beryl or Benitoite for example).

Many here use tablet computer or smartphones - do you know how the produce COLTAN ( columbite/tantalite - minerals they need to produce Tantal) in Africa - sorry, it is ridiculous if you wanna buy "fair trade gems" but post here with your iphone produced in China ( def. not fair trade and human rights) full of Tantal.

And self promotion and a "good" marketing does not mean that you have to overprice an average gem with faults ( iron staining is a fault)
ten times. This is imo unethical too.

 

[austinj]

I think it's silly to say it's ridiculous to buy fair trade gems because I have an iPhone. People aren't going to be able to have fair trade absolutely everything in their lives, so you think we should not try at all? If there was an option for "ethical phones" whatever that would mean I'm sure that some people would be interested in buying them too. I don't like when people criticize other's for trying to purchase or do better things with their lives just because they can't do it in every single aspect. Isn't some better than none? I certainly think so!

And to say it's unrthical to sell that gem with an iron stain? There is a close up picture of the stain, he wrote about it in the description, and I think it looks kind of cool! And from the top the gem looks beautiful. It is expensive but I still think it's a nice gem and no one is saying you have to buy it.

Loverskites I tried posting links twice and failed. One is up but in wrong section. So if you really want to read just go on his site and go to Story section at top and read away. Many good articles. I do not want to try and link again.

Can I just say I'm getting the sense that Marlow you feel as if im attacking your choices? I am not. I have bought from other vendors and will do so in the future too. I'm not saying I buy fair trade all the time and that anyone who doesn't is bad or unethical. My simple point is that Ed is a great vendor in every other way. He is fair trade, sells untreated gems exclusively, all with lab reports, and seems to be a very honest guy. I don't get why he's being slammed so hard simply because he is expensive. There are many others out there with similar prices to his.

 

[chrono]

Ed is getting slammed for far more serious reasons than being simply expensive. I'd rather not derail this any further here but the reasons were explained in the other thread that Pie started.

 

[austinj]

Well i think if anyone actually took the time to read his site then almost every one of those points is mute. And furthermore those are very serious accusations that shouldn't be thrown around lightly if you ask me. That's almost buisness destroying stuff. And it's all speculation. I think if someone is going to accuse like that then they should at least call him and talk to him first and get real answers. many people on this site have had positive experiences with this vendor and I know there are probably lots that agree with me but are too afraid to say anything. This sort of feels like a personal attack. Has Marlow and TL even bought anything from Ed? Because I have bought three. And been very happy. Honestly I wish this whole thing would just drop. It's very negative energy and is starting to affect my day now. All because I posted a stone I liked.

 

[Marlow]

Well i think if anyone actually took the time to read his site then almost every one of those points is mute. And furthermore those are very serious accusations that shouldn't be thrown around lightly if you ask me. That's almost buisness destroying stuff. And it's all speculation. I think if someone is going to accuse like that then they should at least call him and talk to him first and get real answers. many people on this site have had positive experiences with this vendor and I know there are probably lots that agree with me but are too afraid to say anything. This sort of feels like a personal attack. Has Marlow and TL even bought anything from Ed? Because I have bought three. And been very happy. Honestly I wish this whole thing would just drop. It's very negative energy and is starting to affect my day now. All because I posted a stone I liked.

No, because I would be an idiot buying a gem I could easily get for 10-15 % of the asked price.