Help Me Find A Red Stone: A Red Spinel or A Ruby!

[chrono]

Deb,
I’ve rolled up my sleeves and am ready to get to work. Let’s make sure I have everything straight:
1. Budget $10K, give or take.
2. Red spinel of over 2 carats, top colour.
a. Does it have to be a particular shape? It sounds like you prefer an oval?
b. I know you want it to be greater than 2 carats or at least greater than 7 mm. What is the carat weight and minimum dimension size you are looking for?
3. OR ruby with top colour
a. When it comes to rubies, the first thing that comes to mind is treatment. Are you all right with heat only?
b. Even a treated ruby is very expensive per carat, so size will have to be sacrificed. What is the minimum carat weight and dimension?

 

[chrono]

Deb,
This Burmese ruby is slightly above your budget but seems to hit all the other requirements in terms of origin, size, colour and shape. The picture doesn’t look that great but was rated by the vendor as pure red with medium tone and vivid saturation. It might be worth taking a look at it in person to see if it’s the right one for you. If you like it, then I’d have it sent to AGL for a prestige report to be sure the treatment and quality is as stated. There is also second Burmese ruby below it that might be a possible candidate.
http://www.awesomegems.com/ruby-2+.html#top

 

[AGBF]

Deb,
This Burmese ruby is slightly above your budget but seems to hit all the other requirements in terms of origin, size, colour and shape. The picture doesn’t look that great but was rated by the vendor as pure red with medium tone and vivid saturation. It might be worth taking a look at it in person to see if it’s the right one for you. If you like it, then I’ll have it sent to AGL for a prestige report to be sure the treatment and quality is as stated. There is also second Burmese ruby below it that might be a possible candidate.
http://www.awesomegems.com/ruby-2+.html#top

Size is an issue. It has to be as big as my tanzanite. I cannot find the measurements of my tanzanite on Pricescope, which is where I

would have recorded it! Somewhere, in a safe deposit box, I have a description of the ring. If I have to go to the safe deposit box, I

may as well get the ring and take it to the jeweler's to be measured, however!


The tanzanite looks about the same size as the opal Richard Martin set for my daughter. That was a standard size stone, because it

went into a Stuller setting. One measurement was 8mm.There is no reason for me to buy another red stone unless I can have the large

red ring I have always wanted! The top stone is no bigger than the one I have. The bottom stone may be a little bigger. It is an odd

shape, however (whereas I like the shape of the one above). It seems too elongated. I appreciate your help, though. You among

everyone here has an eye for color...particularly red!!!


Deb


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[AGBF]

The ring below, made by Rick Martin using a Stuller setting, is set with an 8mm x 10mm opal. I had thought that I wanted a red spinel or ruby this size, but upon refreshing my memory, I realize that I do not. I want one the size of my tanzanite. If I cannot find the dimensions of that on Pricescope, I will have to measure it or ask the jeweler who sold it to me!

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[AGBF]

The stone is this ring is bigger than I want my red spinel or ruby to be.

Deb


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[AGBF]

Is there such a thing as a vivid red spinel? I don't think any gem gets quite as vivid red as a fine Burmese ruby, and a one carat Burmese ruby that is heated, would be around $10K, and probably $15 to $20K for an unheated one. Red is the most expensive color in the gem world, so you might have to give and take and get something with less than vivid red saturation, or a pinkish red stone.

Yes, there is such a thing as a vivid red spinel. I will not argue about whether it is as vivid a red as a fine Burmese ruby! Somewhere in the archives is a discussion by some experts (I sat on the sidelines) that took place about the light and reflection and refraction in rubies versus spinels when I was buying my first red spinel! I forget what was said since I really didn't understand it, but I may be able to find the discussion. It is possible that you took part in it!

Deb/AGBF

tourmaline lover-

I located the thread in which the properties of (red) spinels versus rubies were discussed in a fashion that made me sit up and take notice! I should, of course, have remembered that Mogok, (Vincent Pardieu), the gemologist who was based in south Asia was the expert who expounded on spinels and rubies. He would be the ideal person to pick a red stone for for anyone!!! Here is the thread to which I referred:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pink-rubies.7145/?hilit=nats']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pink-rubies.7145/?hilit=nats[/URL]

Deb


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[movie zombie]

oh, i so agree! Vincent is the go to guy for red!

MoZo

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Deb, I have nothing useful to offer other than I am happy to tag along (here) on your search! What a delightful project!

cheers--Sharon

 

[AGBF]

Deb, I have nothing useful to offer other than I am happy to tag along (here) on your search! What a delightful project!

Having you and MZ here makes me happy. What else can I say? It makes this feel like The Gold Thread!

Deb


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[movie zombie]

like very old times, isn't it?!

i recently saw a nice red but it was still on the pink side.......not a true drop dead stop light red.

MoZo

 

[chrono]

Deb,
For a spinel (and probably ruby too), 8x10 mm is just a smidge under 4 carats. However, your existing red spinel is about 2 carats so I take it you are looking for something around 3 carats? Perhaps 7x9 mm? As you have deducted from the linked thread, it is more difficult to find a fine red spinel than a fine red ruby. Is Vincent still working for a lab?

 

[AGBF]

Deb,
For a spinel (and probably ruby too), 8x10 mm is just a smidge under 4 carats. However, your existing red spinel is about 2 carats so I take it you are looking for something around 3 carats? Perhaps 7x9 mm? As you have deducted from the linked thread, it is more difficult to find a fine red spinel than a fine red ruby. Is Vincent still working for a lab?

I have no idea! He and Dick Hughes were collaborating, at least loosely or in some fashion at one point, and I know how to reach Dick

Hughes, so I guess I could ask. I hate to bother Dick Hughes with nonsense, though.

Deb


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[VapidLapid]

If I were trying to reach VP I would start with:
http://www.fieldgemology.org/index.php

 

[chrono]

Deb,
I was emailing a PS friend when the topic of Nomad came up. I’d totally forgotten about them but they are a great source of a great variety of coloured gemstones in very large sizes and amazing saturation. I had contacted them in the past and while they do not sell to the public online, they will do so to those who visit their booth at gemshows. This may be a good option for you because Nomad has many high quality Burmese red spinels. What you are looking for probably will not be found via the regular venues.

 

[AGBF]

Thanks VapidLapid and Chrono. Meanwhile, I heard back from Richard Wise about the ruby he has for sale, the one about which you all told me I should inquire. It is not in my league (as you all suspected)! Richard Wise, however, may prove to be a useful contact. I also found out more about my tanzanite, the stone which is the size I want my red stone to be.

chrono-you keep asking me what size I want, and all I can say is, "Bigger that my red spinel. Smaller than my daughter's opal. The size of my tanzanite". I thought it might help if I had actual dimensions!

The jeweler that sold me the tanzanite and made up the ring (although I bought the diamonds elsewhere), had my "appraisal" in his computer. The tanzanite weighed 2.85 carats, so the jeweler guessed the dimensions were probably about 9mm x 7mm, maybe a little larger. So I "need" at least a stone of 9mm x 7mm. I can go larger, but not smaller. I don't need a tone of 10mm x 8mm like my daughter's opal!

I do need vivid saturation and a true red, not a flame red, color. I do need an oval shape. That's about it!

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[movie zombie]

glad you talked to Richard, Deb. i hope you gave him a heads up to scout for you in tucscon..........which is just around the corner!

i also assume you're not necessarily in a big hurry to finish this project. i think that even for Richard it could take some time to find a stone that meets all the criteria [including budget].

i will say that at one time i was looking for a red tourmaline and a respected bay area jeweler was going to tucson. she returned and called me to say she had found the perfect gem for me at the show [from Pala]. however, it just was not the color i was looking for so back it went.....sigh.

do you have depth concerns with the setting you're planning to use?

MoZo

 

[AGBF]

do you have depth concerns with the setting you're planning to use?

Tell me what they should be and I will work on getting some!

Deb


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[AGBF]

So I "need" at least a stone of 9mm x 7mm. I can go larger, but not smaller. I don't need a tone of 10mm x 8mm like my daughter's opal!

I do need vivid saturation and a true red, not a flame red, color. I do need an oval shape. That's about it!

This stone is not oval. It is not quite 9mm x 7mm. (It is only 8.5mm x 6.8mm.) It is also not from Burma. Everyone kept saying I

might have to give a little on something, given my budget. I do not have to give up yet. The very existence of this stone is proof that

an oval with vivid saturation can be found. But what do you all think of this stone?


http://rwwise.com/products/id%7C1083

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[VapidLapid]

So I "need" at least a stone of 9mm x 7mm. I can go larger, but not smaller. I don't need a tone of 10mm x 8mm like my daughter's opal!

I do need vivid saturation and a true red, not a flame red, color. I do need an oval shape. That's about it!

This stone is not oval. It is not quite 9mm x 7mm. (It is only 8.5mm x 6.8mm.) It is also not from Burma. Everyone kept saying I

might have to give a little on something, given my budget. I do not have to give up yet. The very existence of this stone is proof that

an oval with vivid saturation can be found. But what do you all think of this stone?


http://rwwise.com/products/id%7C1083

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

I thought you wanted red, not brown.

 

[movie zombie]

richard is easy to work with....or was in the past. pull out the credit card and have it sent to you for approval if you like it.

its too dark to be stop light red, deb, but as we all know trying to photograph color stones....even by the best....can be no easy task. my monitor doesn't show brown....but the dark spots are certainly black. and red color is more of a dark rose color...not stop light red. but who can trust photos and monitors?! i don't........

i love the cut and think it would be a pity to lose that pavilion in an enclosed setting....and i'm betting the color is definitely enhanced by the depth of the stone.

MoZo

 

[AGBF]

I thought you wanted red, not brown.

It's not brown, but I think the tone is on the darker side. I loved the saturation, though.

Deb


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[chrono]

I am afraid the spinel you linked to looks much too brown and too orangish on my monitor. I agree that the tone is dark but it also looks desaturated to me. Most Vietnamese spinels have a tendency to show too much orange/brown tones.

The picture below shows the best red I've ever seen in both gem species;
The Mahenge spinel on the left is 9.52 carats, untreated and unknown price.
The ruby on the right is 8.62 carats, untreated and cost $3.6 million several years ago at Christie’s auction.



Deb,
Is this the colour you are looking for?

 

[LD]

Another one who thinks the stone you've just linked to isn't "stop light red" as you've described it and is too dark. You've also said consistently that the stone has to be an oval. So bearing that in mind, I wouldn't compromise.

Can I also check something? Is your Tanzanite an oval? A Tanzanite oval of 9x7 and assuming a depth of 5mm would be just under 2ct. With a depth of 4.5mm it would be around 1.75ct. A 2.5ct Tanzanite would have dimensions of 10x8x5. Those mm really make a difference! A 10x8x5 oval red spinel would be around 2.75ct. 9x7x5 oval spinel would be around 2.2ct.

Because you're looking for stop light red, a few changes in mm might be the difference between big bucks and mega big bucks!

 

[AGBF]

Chrono-

I am liking the spinel I posted less the more I look at it. The spinel you posted looks too pink to me!!! The ruby, on the other hand, looks absolutely fabulous!!!

Deb


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[LD]

Chrono-

I am liking the spinel I posted less the more I look at it. The spinel you posted looks too pink to me!!! The ruby, on the other hand, looks absolutely fabulous!!!

Deb


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

Then are you perhaps looking for something that is slightly darker than stop light red with absolutely NO pink?

 

[T L]

Chrono-

I am liking the spinel I posted less the more I look at it. The spinel you posted looks too pink to me!!! The ruby, on the other hand, looks absolutely fabulous!!!

Deb


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

The ruby that chrono posted above is the famous Laurence Graff ruby, and is one of the finest red gems in the world. If you like that color, you have very expensive taste.

 

[AGBF]

-

Then are you perhaps looking for something that is slightly darker than stop light red with absolutely NO pink?

I don't want pink, but I do want stoplight red. My stoplights aren't pink. Luckily, Pricescope keeps great archives. I found an old thread with pictures of my first (perfect color for me) red spinel. I will try to copy one of the photos, but you can go through the thread to see a wide array of them! (There are also photos of my tanzanite ring in that thread.)

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/red-spinel-with-pair-of-pears.7728/?hilit=charwoman']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/red-spinel-with-pair-of-pears.7728/?hilit=charwoman[/URL]

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[movie zombie]

the link that Deb provided showed the stone she had to send back. that also gives an idea of the color. still doesn't allow for monitor differences.......

MoZo

ps stop light red implies no pink........ or it does for me as the stop lights here are red Red RED.

 

[LD]

Ok now that's really interesting because what I see in the photos in your link is a touch of pink (not much admittedly). Also, can I check whether it held it's colour in all lighting conditions? In one of the photos further down (the one with the round sides), it looks to have gone darker and this is what I find with most red spinels. It's so difficult to find one that maintains red in all conditions.

I am really wondering whether you're going to be better with a Ruby? I suspect that you'll find it much easier to find one that will be the colour you want and will hold its colour.

Very pretty Tanzanite by the way!!

 

[AGBF]

Here is a picture of my first red spinel.

Deb