Help me love my red spinel

[Deedaa]

I''ve had this stone for a while now, and I just can''t bring myself to love it. It is a 1.98ct red spinel. Perhaps a little dark, but really I do love the colour. It is just that it is dead in the middle, there are lovely red flashes around the edges but I just feel like it could perform a lot better.

When I bought it I went into a bit of a red spinel frenzy, I thought I loved it, but as I learned more about gemstones and bought a couple from our favourite cutters, I realised something was missing for this little guy. Don''t get me wrong, I''m not obsessed with perfect cut, but this really is fairly ordinary and windowed. I paid quite a bit for the stone, hence the buyer''s remorse.

Does it look like a possible candidate for a re-cut or should I just learn to love it as it is? I''d love to hear what you would do with this stone.

 

[Deedaa]

Pic 2

 

[Deedaa]

Pic 3

 

[mochi]

I love the vibrant red color of the stone. How about a pendant?

 

[T L]

If you love it that much, then I think it''s worth it to get a recut, although many cutters charge by the hour to cut a stone, and some of those rates are very high, it might be more than what you paid for the stone. I am in the same boat as you, and looking to get a tourmaline that I love the color on, recut.

 

[Lulie]

I''d check and see how much would it cost to recut the stone, or sell it and buy the one that makes your heart sing [better than keeping it in storage]

 

[mariedtiger]

I think a recut would make that stone perform really well. The color is nice. I just had a spinel recut by Dan Stair of Customgemstones. He charged 35$ and I think he did the job fast. The only thing is that the weight loss may be big, how do you feel about that? I suggest you send these pictures to Dan and ask what he thinks. He was pretty informative already by just judging the pictures.

 

[bling addict]

I love the colour!

If it was me I would look into a recut...as long as it didn''t end up too small...

 

[mariedtiger]

I''m sorry I meant to say Dan charges 35$ an hour, for recutting.

 

[ma re]

Have you tried hypnosis

Seriously, right setting can make any stone look better. I''d set this one in either yellow or rose gold and have a satin (or similar) finish done on the metal, no diamonds whatsoever. That would make the stone appear more sparkly. I think white metal would make it appear even darker (it would further increas the contrast) and I don''t think it would do much for the stone''s color. And since you don''t find this to be one of the best stones you have, it''d be best to set it in a pendant - jewellers say that rings should be reserved for our best stones cause we look at them most often.

 

[Deedaa]

Thanks for the tips everyone (hypnosis too haha thanks ma re)

I''m a white metal person unfortunately, and not negotiable on that one. The stone cost a bit over $1,400, not a fortune but definately not cheap. Perhaps I paid too much but I did use a vendor that has received good feedback here. I think what is to improve the stone, rather than make the most of it with a good setting.

So, I guess I''d better start with looking into recutting and see if the stone is a good candidate. Thanks for the tips about Dan marriedtiger, I love his work. I don''t know how he survives on that price per hour though. As a consultant who is charged out at $250+ an hour I was expecting much more!

If recutting not really feasible, then I will learn to love her as she is. Maybe I can spraypaint over the window or something

 

[T L]

Wow, I've been quoted like over 100/hr for cutting.

I'm pretty sure I know where you got that stone. I don't buy from him, although he has some rare colors of stones, because for what he charges, I would expect better native cuts.

Michael E of gemshoppe.com will cut stones with minimal weight loss. He's more expensive, but he told me that one of my stones would require less than a carat of weight loss. You might want to ask him. However, I don't think it will be $35. The upside is that you might not lose that much in the carat weight. Since it's a shallow stone, you might lose too much in any case.

 

[Deedaa]

Thanks TL, I might get in touch and see what he thinks.

You mentioned that you think the stone is shallow. It measures 6.87x7.82x4.69mm. Would that be considered shallow? If so, then I just need to deal with the loss of size. Loss of weight (because it is all in the belly) doesn''t concern me, more the face-up size.

 

[AmberGretchen]

I think the color is fantastic and it sounds to me like a good candidate for recutting.

 

[innerkitten]

It''s a lovely shade of red. I have a similar issue with a red spinel I own, but with mine the problem is extinction. I have often wondered if a concave cut could help. Maybe it would work for your red spinel?
Perhaps I''ll post mine later.

 

[T L]

Date: 1/13/2009 5:03:08 PM
Author: Deedaa
Thanks TL, I might get in touch and see what he thinks.

You mentioned that you think the stone is shallow. It measures 6.87x7.82x4.69mm. Would that be considered shallow? If so, then I just need to deal with the loss of size. Loss of weight (because it is all in the belly) doesn''t concern me, more the face-up size.

Email those exact specs to Michael or any cutter you''re considering. They''ll tell you what can be done. Also send them a picture of your stone. Typically, a stone with a window is shallow in comparison to the length and width (that''s why there''s a window).

 

[CharmyPoo]

This is a split thread diversion. Can red spinels be very sparkly? Does anyone own one that is sparkly? My red spinels are all pretty but they feel dead to me.

 

[T L]

Date: 1/13/2009 6:16:28 PM
Author: CharmyPoo
This is a split thread diversion. Can red spinels be very sparkly? Does anyone own one that is sparkly? My red spinels are all pretty but they feel dead to me.

Okay, I''m glad I''m not the only one that feels this way. I always hear about how spinels are so refractive and are such beautiful colors, but I have yet to see one that makes me jump for joy. Maybe spinels just don''t like ME.

 

[mochi]

Gee... I must be in the minority because the color of that stone would just be enough for me and I would love it without a new cut. It''s such an intense red, I just would not risk a cut to make it smaller. But its just me.

 

[platinumrock]

WOW!!!! I Love Love Love the color. If you are planning on keeping the stone, but you are unhappy with its brilliance, then a recut would be a great option. But I think it''s gorgeous the way it is.

 

[platinumrock]

Date: 1/13/2009 7:38:43 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 1/13/2009 6:16:28 PM
Author: CharmyPoo
This is a split thread diversion. Can red spinels be very sparkly? Does anyone own one that is sparkly? My red spinels are all pretty but they feel dead to me.

Okay, I''m glad I''m not the only one that feels this way. I always hear about how spinels are so refractive and are such beautiful colors, but I have yet to see one that makes me jump for joy. Maybe spinels just don''t like ME.

That colored diamond collection might be kinda hard to live up to. I''d hate to be the dull spinel next to those beauties.

 

[chrono]

I have a red spinel that is a burning red that's not dark and "killed" by extinction. This is a very important point in red spinels - many have so much extinction that it looks dead and dark. A recut would be good to bring life back to the stone, however, only the cutter will be able to give an estimate about the carat weight and size loss.

Your stone is dark to begin with so a concave cut will not help much. In my experience, concave faceting is best in lighter coloured stones.

 

[Harriet]

A re-cut might help. I see an off-centre culet. That said, a gem is something that you either love or you don''t.

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 1/13/2009 9:31:53 PM
Author: Chrono
I have a red spinel that is a burning red that''s not dark and ''killed'' by extinction. This is a very important point in red spinels - many have so much extinction that it looks dead and dark. A recut would be good to bring life back to the stone, however, only the cutter will be able to give an estimate about the carat weight and size loss.

Your stone is dark to begin with so a concave cut will not help much. In my experience, concave faceting is best in lighter coloured stones.

i so HATE extinction! and affordable spinels are always always always suffering from extinction. the only spinels i''ve ever liked were thousands per carat.....and my budget for fine stones was devoured by my spess. a burning red stop sign red spinel is sparkly and breath taking......and dang expensive. sigh. heavy sigh.

is there any guarantee that recutting will improve it? or is it a mere hope? i don''t know that i''d throw any more $ at it. what if it gets recut and the improvement is marginal and you''ve lost a lot of carat weight?

movie zombie

 

[Deedaa]

Thanks for all your thoughts everyone, I really appreciate it.

On the side-thread regarding the quality of red spinels, to me this stone doesn''t show extinction, it is darker than "stop sign red" but still unmistakably red. It is also totally clean, I can''t find any inclusions which is kinda important to me. I love red, and I''m off rubies due to the cost and dodgy treatments. I''m not sure what other pure red options are out there. I''ve seen some quite nice red spess.

I contacted Dan regarding the re-cut and sent him all the info on the stone, including dimensions and pictures. He believes the window is due to the bottom facets being cut at too shallow an angle, and I can see that. He basically says some of the bulk underneath has to be removed, which I also figured was the case. A stumpy oval (as it is) or round were his recommendations.

I will probably send it off for an oppinion at least, and get some idea of how much size will be lost. I will just think about it for a few days. I''ll probably carry it around in my handbag so I can check it out in all different lights just to make sure I want to take the axe to it

 

[ma re]

Date: 1/13/2009 7:38:43 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 1/13/2009 6:16:28 PM
Author: CharmyPoo
This is a split thread diversion. Can red spinels be very sparkly? Does anyone own one that is sparkly? My red spinels are all pretty but they feel dead to me.

Okay, I''m glad I''m not the only one that feels this way. I always hear about how spinels are so refractive and are such beautiful colors, but I have yet to see one that makes me jump for joy. Maybe spinels just don''t like ME.

That''s because color saturation and light refraction exclude eachother. The more material refracts light, the more it will reduce color saturation. That''s why you never see stones of dark tone with those brilliant flashes of light, which is not the case with lighter stones which usually exhibit them. That is also why color saturation of even the highest grades of fancy diamonds pales in comparison to the one seen in most colored stones. Have you ever seen a blue diamond as highly saturated as a fine sapphire? No, just like you haven''t seen a sapphire with the brilliance of a blue diamond. You can''t have it all so you have to pick, and people often expect both not knowing it''s physically impossible. Cut also makes a diference, cause a highly saturated color needs contrast in facets (call it controlled extinction) to show visible scintillation. If there''s not enough contrast, there''ll be no scintillation and the stone will seem dead.

 

[T L]

Date: 1/14/2009 4:29:04 AM
Author: ma re

Date: 1/13/2009 7:38:43 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 1/13/2009 6:16:28 PM
Author: CharmyPoo
This is a split thread diversion. Can red spinels be very sparkly? Does anyone own one that is sparkly? My red spinels are all pretty but they feel dead to me.

Okay, I''m glad I''m not the only one that feels this way. I always hear about how spinels are so refractive and are such beautiful colors, but I have yet to see one that makes me jump for joy. Maybe spinels just don''t like ME.

That''s because color saturation and light refraction exclude eachother. The more material refracts light, the more it will reduce color saturation. That''s why you never see stones of dark tone with those brilliant flashes of light, which is not the case with lighter stones which usually exhibit them. That is also why color saturation of even the highest grades of fancy diamonds pales in comparison to the one seen in most colored stones. Have you ever seen a blue diamond as highly saturated as a fine sapphire? No, just like you haven''t seen a sapphire with the brilliance of a blue diamond. You can''t have it all so you have to pick, and people often expect both not knowing it''s physically impossible. Cut also makes a diference, cause a highly saturated color needs contrast in facets (call it controlled extinction) to show visible scintillation. If there''s not enough contrast, there''ll be no scintillation and the stone will seem dead.

But I want both. I don''t want to hijack another person''s thread, but I will just say that I have seen saturated fine hues in gemstones that sparkle a lot. Fine quality ceylon sapphire is such a gem. Most of these stones, with the best of both worlds, are very rare and costly though. Even my saturated rubellite sparkles like crazy due to the nice cutting, and there is absolutely no extinction on that stone even though it''s very saturated, which I think is very rare in nature. It actually glows in low light settngs which fascinates me.

The problem with spinels, for me at least, is that all the red ones I see seem "dead" or very pyrope garnet like, and many blue ones look like iolite to me with a very distinct grey blue. I suppose the lighter saturations sparkle though, but I recently bought a medium red (not brick red, but a more orange red) one with no extinction, but it didn''t sparkle at all. To be fair, the cutting was poor though.

Well, I''m not trying to bash spinels here, but I''m just trying to understand them. I''m hoping one of these days I''ll see one in person that knocks my socks off. I have to visit ColorMyWorld''s house!! Ha!!

I think you answered the original poster''s question in a way though, by stating that a saturated stone needs to be well cut. Therefore, it probably is worth recutting the above stone.