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Help needed deciding between WF and CBI

iKevyn said:
This is a great read as I’m currently in the same boat. Should I pay the premium for CBI or go for ACA question...
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My vote is if CBI if you prefer that stone. I would pay the premium. The premium may also include crossing the carat mark line, which by the way, I am in favor of. I am not a fan of .99 stones, but that is me, and I mentally need to know my stone is of a certain weight. The price difference will be nothing in a few years, you would have forgotten about it, but now you will have that fabulous stone.

Did you see the other thread on ACA vs CBI? The OP of that thread @erislynn chose the CBI and her stone is fabulous. She posted great comparison photos and explanations:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cbi-vs-aca-another-pic-and-vid-comparison.236493/
 
Miki Moto said:
My vote is if CBI if you prefer that stone. I would pay the premium. The premium may also include crossing the carat mark line, which by the way, I am in favor of. I am not a fan of .99 stones, but that is me, and I mentally need to know my stone is of a certain weight. The price difference will be nothing in a few years, you would have forgotten about it, but now you will have that fabulous stone.

Did you see the other thread on ACA vs CBI? The OP of that thread @erislynn chose the CBI and her stone is fabulous. She posted great comparison photos and explanations:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cbi-vs-aca-another-pic-and-vid-comparison.236493/
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Yes I did, I’ve spend the last 5 months in secret reading all the CBI vs ACA threads. CBI at the moment don’t have much diamonds in my carat range and price range. While on the other hand WF has quite a few. My heart is going toward CBI after seeing how contrastsy it look from other threads, but that means I either have to wait for more inventory or save up more money.

When I get the chance I will call the diamonds in to see it in person but I’m pretty busy at the moment so I was hoping PS can shine on some answers.
 
CBI all the way for me, I wont event waste time to look elsewhere. There isn't a premium to pay to be very honest. At the end of the day you get what you pay for, also the upgrade / buy back guarantees and off course a diamond cut to perfection.
 
iKevyn said:
Yes I did, I’ve spend the last 5 months in secret reading all the CBI vs ACA threads. CBI at the moment don’t have much diamonds in my carat range and price range. While on the other hand WF has quite a few. My heart is going toward CBI after seeing how contrastsy it look from other threads, but that means I either have to wait for more inventory or save up more money.

When I get the chance I will call the diamonds in to see it in person but I’m pretty busy at the moment so I was hoping PS can shine on some answers.
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I need to read all the threads too... weekend reading! I see so much about ACAs, but almost nothing about CBIs, yet when I have read comparisons, CBI seems to win out.

I don't understand why they are low on inventory either. I am upgrading earrings, and I have been looking to browse, but I only found one CBI stone vs tons of ACA. I think perhaps it is because HPD CBI cuts their own stones whereas WF ACA buys from dealers, but I am not sure. Maybe someone at HPD can chime in here on the inventory question. I have not asked on the HPD website as I don't want to bug people unless I am ready to buy, so hoping maybe @Wink or someone connected to HPD can provide insight on inventory (PS Admin... if I am breaking the rules inviting a trade member for input, please delete).
 
Miki Moto said:
I have not asked on the HPD website as I don't want to bug people unless I am ready to buy, so hoping maybe @Wink or someone connected to HPD can provide insight on inventory (PS Admin... if I am breaking the rules inviting a trade member for input, please delete).
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Correct. We do not purchase from other producers. We only sell diamonds Crafted by Infinity. When there’s high demand our inventory can become reduced until they replenish us with more of their diamonds.

There is good news. Crafted by Infinity has diamonds that do not yet appear on our website. Some are about to arrive in the USA, others are being graded at AGSL, others are newly finished in Antwerp. There are also diamonds in the process of being crafted which I can ask about in general terms, but I’m forbidden to share specific details of any diamond until it finalizes as part of the brand. So, in answer to your main question, you may contact us to learn what Crafted by Infinity diamonds are coming available but not yet on our website.

I also wanted to add that anybody reading this thread will be in great hands with any of the wonderful vendors here.

Wink

PS Admin. if answering that question is breaking the rules, please delete.
 
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iKevyn said:
Yes I did, I’ve spend the last 5 months in secret reading all the CBI vs ACA threads. CBI at the moment don’t have much diamonds in my carat range and price range. While on the other hand WF has quite a few. My heart is going toward CBI after seeing how contrastsy it look from other threads, but that means I either have to wait for more inventory or save up more money.

When I get the chance I will call the diamonds in to see it in person but I’m pretty busy at the moment so I was hoping PS can shine on some answers.
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There is another option, and that is to have a CBI cut to order which is what I did in 2014.
 
Hi, @iKevyn,

I have the CBI diamond k 2.02 vs2 for 2 weeks.

I have some thoughts you might find interesting.

1) In my case, I think I do want to upgrade to 2.20 - 2.50 ct. So getting a 1.99, or 2.0 now, makes little difference, as I will take that price hit going over 2.0 ct, it is only a matter of time.

2) I have compared a few CBI diamonds with similar counterpart in WF ACA in terms of prices, I do feel CBI diamonds are slightly more expensive than WF ACA. I cannot prove it unless I have compare every single one of them.

I think if you are buying a CBI diamond you are paying for its rarity, as only limited number are cut every year. To me it is similar to the rarity of color d diamond.

3) I still thinking about WF ACA a lot. I still wonder if I could have gotten the same performance for cheaper.
 
I'm with egemnoel, CBI for me all the way too. I did months of research before I purchased, looked at hundreds of stones, and called all the vendors on this board and then some. My Crafted by Infinity stone is the best I have ever seen as far as brilliance, light return, and general spectacularness.

Some people don't believe that CBI is very different from other super-ideals or that there isn't a "special sauce" as has been recently described on PS. But there is, they're just not going to tell any of us what it is.

About a year ago I went to a birthday party and was approached by a woman who wanted to see my rings. As has happened before, she saw them from across the room and wanted to see them up close. It turns out that she had a WF ACA that she loved, and was wearing. So I had my first opportunity to see a WF up close, and also to compare to my own. I wanted to REALLY see her stone, so I asked her if she wanted to see mine with a loupe, because then I would have the excuse to see hers.....and yes, I carry a loupe in my purse.

I am no expert, so I can't tell much with a loupe other than see inclusions, feathers, some polish aspects, etc. The stone looked good, similar to mine actually. But that is where the similarity ends. On the hand, the WF looked good, and bright, but really nowhere near as bright as mine. The CBI looks like it glows from within, if that makes sense. Her stones did not have that quality. It's almost like if my stone was a 10 in brightness, hers was a 7. Both stones were an F color, mine is VVS and hers is super clean VS, both are super-ideals, so what's the difference? She said she had never seen a stone like the CBI, and I agreed. She says she had been happy with her stone, but now would be looking into an upgrade as she thought she had the best, but has now become aware that maybe she didn't.

I have had dozens of experiences similar to this in the past 4 years I've had my rings, so this is not an isolated experience.
 
Can you do a thread on your ring in SMTB?

Would love to see it @SandyinAnaheim
 
I think I did when I first got them @KirstLWA, but here are some images for you.

imag0486-sml.jpg_22241.jpg

I need to get some good pictures of the wedding band with it.
 
@SandyinAnaheim, I believe your testimony. I guess for me, since I have never seen a WF ACA in person with my own eye side by side with a CBI, I will always wonder.

However if I would to do it again, I will still pick CBI. To me, it is an assurance of getting one of the best MRB cut, not taking a risk.

The diamond that I got did not disappoint.
 
When I met Paul and John at a CBI Meet the Cutter event and saw CBI diamonds, live and in living color, I knew that I wanted a CBI in the future.

It took a couple of years before I did my Cut to Order 2.21 F-SI1 in 2014, it did not disappoint, and now I am the proud owner of 5 CBI diamonds.

Four F color, VS1, VS2, and SI1, and who would have guessed that I would own a Q-VVS2 CBI.
 
I'm not going to sit here and argue which H&A cut is better, b/c each diamond will react differently under different lighting conditions. However, I am probably one of the very few PSer whom have had seen/held a ACA, CBI, BGD Sig and a GOG H&A stone IRL. :praise:
 
Dancing Fire said:
I'm not going to sit here and argue which H&A cut is better, b/c each diamond will react differently under different lighting conditions. However, I am probably one of the very few PSer whom have had seen/held a ACA, CBI, BGD Sig and a GOG H&A stone IRL. :praise:
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Hi, @Dancing Fire. I want to hear your honest opinion. That is the reason I am on pricescope - hear people's honest opinion, as long as the person is not being mean about it. I think it is especially helpful for the people who are deciding.

And I can understand, if someone says that he or she thinks CBI is not that great, I am probably going to feel ...

Going back to what you said, do you mean, in your personal experience, you feel that in some condition CBI performs the best, in some ACA perform the best, in some BGD sig performs the best, and yet in some GOG H&A performs the best.

Thank you.
 
uyalison said:
Going back to what you said, do you mean, in your personal experience, you feel that in some condition CBI performs the best, in some ACA perform the best, in some BGD sig performs the best, and yet in some GOG H&A performs the best.

Thank you.
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I guess what I meant to say is that I don't get see enough of these diamonds to say which brand is the best. Heck, I still remember seeing a Lazare Kaplan (30 yrs ago) stone that was a dynamite! :love:. LK was the first ideal cut stone that I held in my hand.
 
@uyalison, I think you DID make the right choice. But living with that doubt over you for the foreseeable future is not going to be fun. Why don't you order the ACA diamond on a credit card or arrange to have it sent to a local jeweler, get it into your hot little hands, and do the comparison for yourself? You're going to end up returning one of them anyways. Other people on here have done that, one just recently.

But I will tell you a story I have not told here before, and will be writing a real post about soon. CBI is not only exceptional in the stones that they carry, they are beyond exceptional in customer care and warranty of their work. These are just two reasons why you should feel confident in the choice you made.

I received my custom made rings in April of 2014, but was not due to be married until November of 2014, which means that I only wore my engagement ring, pictured above. Once I got married, I added the wedding band to the mix. I'm a little OCD and clean my rings religiously and polish the platinum monthly. One day in April of 2015 as I was getting ready for work, I noticed something different about my rings....they didn't look exactly the same. By that point, I'd spent HUNDREDS of hours staring at them (and have thousands of lousy pictures to prove it) and even knew when I had them on upside down. Out comes my handy dandy little loupe and I was SHOCKED, no, APPALLED to see chips, CHIPS!! on my 1.21 ct G VS2 center stone!! I worked as a paralegal - the worst I could have done is whack it with a manila folder! As I start to look closer, the majority of the stones on both rings have chips on the exposed edges....

I went into full panic mode and called in sick to work that day. I couldn't drive. I could barely stand and had broken out into a sickening cold sweat. I'm thinking $20k+ investment, and 4.25 cts destroyed, what am I to do?

I took a tranquilizer and I called Wink. You've spoken to Wink, he's so easy-going and calm, he could pull you right back from the ledge without even trying. I explained to Wink exactly what I had just discovered and my utter shock at the situation. He sent me a label and had me send the rings back to him. After analyzing the rings, it was discovered that there was a design flaw in the settings that allowed ALL of the stones to rub up against one another, and what could chip a diamond better than a diamond? I had a hand in designing the look of the rings, I wanted classic U-Prongs, set very low because I'm beastly, and for the stones to be as naked as possible on the sides - no obstructions. The bench that Wink was using at the time did beautiful work, but did not safeguard against the stones touching each other. Wink was just as shocked as I was and stopped using that bench. If I am not mistaken, that's the first time something like this had ever happened with his bench's work.

Wink stood behind his work 1,000%. Finding an identical stone did not prove easy, but he had one coming in from AGS that was bigger, higher color and higher clarity than what I originally had. He offered it to me and of course, I said YES, I'll take it. He redesigned my rings, put all new stones in, and returned a set that was better than what I originally had. My center stone went from a 1.21 G VS2 to a 1.26 F VVS2, and my side stones all match, so they were upgraded as well.

You just don't find this kind of customer service, integrity, honesty and willingness to make things right everywhere. It's possible that other vendors would do the exact same thing and warrant their designs against manufacturing defects a year out, but I wouldn't know because I'm never going anywhere else. This sort of extraordinary care of his clientele, OVER AND ABOVE the sheer unparalleled beauty and performance of his products, puts Wink, HPD and CBI on the gilded throne at the top of the heap, I don't care what anyone says. Wink and HPD set the bar on quality and customer service.
 
That's a sad story with a great finish. I'll bet you were SHOCKED!!!!!!!! Did you say any bad words?

"I am probably one of the very few PSer whom have had seen/held a ACA, CBI, BGD Sig and a GOG H&A stone IRL."

Not only have I only seen one of those - the ACA I bought - I may one of the few here who was refused a look at Hearts on Fire rings at a local jewelry store. Nice guy, but he said they were expensive and proceeded to show me a one carat J VS2 for $9k plus setting. HA! I stood there looking at the array of ceiling lights and the display case lights and asking what they had in the back I could look at. I don't mind spending money on nice things, but the old family-owned store had sold out to a chain. Yuck.

I admit that after 5 years of retirement and a recent week at the beach I probably looked like a 67-year-old beach bum, but that day my Columbia shorts were new, my Topsiders were nearly new and my Ocracoke Island tackle shop t-shirt was new with the creases still in it. I even shave every day. :lol:

I thought about sending him a copy of a favorite financial book - The Millionaire Next Door - but decided not to even though everyone in retail should read it and keep a copy by the bed. Research has shown that 80% of wealthy folks don't live in rich neighborhoods or flaunt their money.

To quote the Washington Post review, "These people cannot be millionaires! They don't look like millionaires, they don't dress like millionaires, they don't eat like millionaires, they don't..."

Just last night I discovered that my sweetie has never owned a pair of diamond earrings. :idea: Hmmmm. Whiteflash or CBI? :geek: Time to geek out on research.
 
@Johnbt Hi! I loved that book! Read it twice! I am looking to upgrade my earrings too. I have HOF earrings and don’t like them (they are Less sparkly than my Tiffany non-super ideal). After going through tons of posts on PS, the very helpful and knowledgeable PSers here have told me it’s the angles of my stone that make me not like my HOF. I seem to be prefer a longer LGF and skinny arrows for more bright light (laymen here speaking).

CBI will do a custom cut, so that is an option too if you have certain preferences on a stone. Also, @Wink responded above to my question about inventory saying HPD will be getting more stones in soon. If you search their stones now, don’t be dismayed you can’t find something online. More goodies coming from Antwerp soon! (note to self: I wonder if the HPD website can send out an auto-reminder email when new inventory gets loaded... I will check today). =)2
 
Johnbt said:
That's a sad story with a great finish. I'll bet you were SHOCKED!!!!!!!! Did you say any bad words?
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The word SHOCK isn't even close to it. I don't know if we have a word in the English language that encapsulates, terror, gut-wrenching queasiness, the cold sweat of pure panic, the dizziness of a monstrous financial loss, and the feeling of falling away from reality into unconsciousness. The only other times I've had close to this feeling, but on an exponentially greater level, was when I was two seconds away from a collision while riding a motorcycle, and when I was told there was nothing more they could do for my Dad as he was dying of cancer in the hospital. IS THERE a word for that? And no, no bad words.
 
@SandyinAnaheim
wow. Thanks for sharing. What a story. wow, What a jeweller that Wink is! Integrity. I am sure he could have come up tons of excuses, delay. I hope HPD had some sort of insurance to cover the damages to the diamond. I cannot image if Wink has to absorb cost himself. Ouch.

I am see what such loyalty you have toward him and his company, and the products that he carry.
 
"The word SHOCK isn't even close to it. I don't know if we have a word in the English language that encapsulates, terror, gut-wrenching queasiness, the cold sweat of pure panic, the dizziness of a monstrous financial loss, and the feeling of falling away from reality into unconsciousness."

You're right, there isn't a word for it. I know that from a recent experience. :)

Have you read my post on how I lost her 2-week-old Whiteflash ring on the beach? Oops.

www.pricescope.com/community/threads/why-you-need-ring-insurance-or-how-i-lost-her-ring-on-the-beach-yesterday.240519/
 
I hadn't before, but I did now. You are one lucky puppy!! Thank goodness you had your bearings and noticed your surroundings, it made all the difference. I'm sorry you and your wife went through that ordeal...I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
 
uyalison said:
Thank you erislynn for your input. I appreciate it. I understand it is hard for one to say she/he thinks one is better, not expecting to be "fired" on.

Thank you and everyone else here suggested that I should see the diamonds in person. I know WF ACA will be very very very brilliant. I feel I don't need to see them in person. I am sold with all the testimony from PS.

However with CBI, from what I read, it sounds like it has something extra special. I am just afraid after I pay the price premium and go down the CBI road, when I received the diamond, I will be disappointed. because it is so hyped up.

So I am going to see some tomorrow in person. Melissa has very graciously setup both the K and an alternative J for me to look at the Green Lake store in Bellevue. I am trying to set my expectation low.
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And that is exactly the problem with this 'special sauce' talk. CBI has beautiful diamonds and I don't think anyone here will dispute that. However, a well cut diamond is only as good as a well cut diamond. Years ago on these boards, super ideal cut stones were described by some in such a way that one would have thought they would literally glow on the finger - even in a completely darkened room. That was not true either. A diamond must be well cut AND have the right lighting environment in order to perform to optimum level.

At the PS get together last weekend, we attended a presentation by two AGS representatives. They have lots of diamonds passing through their facility from all sorts of sources and for different companies. They assured us all that there was no 'special sauce' to diamond cutting - a super ideal diamond is a super ideal diamond. They can have different proportions, color and clarities that will of course affect their appearance but there isn't a secret formula that one company has over another. If such a thing existed - even if its source wasn't revealed - don't you think that any company with such a thing would be singing this off the rooftops?

Expect to see beautiful diamonds tomorrow and I sincerely hope you find one that you love - that's the whole point of buying diamonds! I really don't think you need to go with low expectations but go with realistic expectations of what a diamond can and can't do. If you find something that you can't go home without, you've hit a home run! Don't worry about the vendor - focus only on the stone. Most of these vendors have superb customer service so that doesn't really have to factor into it either. Some folks are very brand or vendor loyal but at the end of the day, what matters most is that you find a stone you love. It is a wonderful, warm feeling to have a true affection for the vendor but you will be wearing the stone, not the vendor.
 
Never in a million years did I think when I used the words "secret sauce" in Drizzle's thread six months ago, that it would create such a stir, to the point that it came up at the WF get-together in an AGS presentation. I'll set aside the fact that this conversation took place at a business that sells diamonds among a group of potential customers, and was being discussed with a company that has a monetary interest in grading as many diamonds as possible from as many sources as possible. What I meant by "secret sauce" is cut consistency within a brand. Cut consistency that repeat customers have seen and prefer. That's it. That's all. I never intended to infer that CBI is superior to any of the other brands or vendors that are promoted here. I would be crazy to infer such a thing. Carry on!
 
MissGotRocks said:
They assured us all that there was no 'special sauce' to diamond cutting - a super ideal diamond is a super ideal diamond. They can have different proportions, color and clarities that will of course affect their appearance but there isn't a secret formula that one company has over another.
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I've learned how fiercely loyal the CBI fans are on this board to the point that some actually argue that math, proportions, angles don't matter and CBI stones must have a "secret" that makes the diamonds look consistently the same.

This cannot be further from the truth, and anyone who have read the past hot technical threads on PS between the world's top vendor experts (including CBI) would know that it really does come down to the angles, proportions and precision cut execution that determines diamond's visual performance. A diamond with 40.7 pavillion vs 40.9 pavillion will NOT look the same, and CBI produces across the range accompanied by varying crown angles and table. It is like challenging someone's religion...
 
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Lula said:
Never in a million years did I think when I used the words "secret sauce" in Drizzle's thread six months ago, that it would create such a stir, to the point that it came up at the WF get-together in an AGS presentation. I'll set aside the fact that this conversation took place at a business that sells diamonds among a group of potential customers, and was being discussed with a company that has a monetary interest in grading as many diamonds as possible from as many sources as possible. What I meant by "secret sauce" is cut consistency within a brand. Cut consistency that repeat customers have seen and prefer. That's it. That's all. I never intended to infer that CBI is superior to any of the other brands or vendors that are promoted here. I would be crazy to infer such a thing. Carry on!
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I appreciate your clarification and too am sorry that such a benign phrase has been so misinterpreted.

I also appreciate your setting aside the print in bold. We discussed many things with these reps as we all had questions regarding diamond cut and grading. We were simply a group of diamond enthusiasts - not professionals. It was an informational session that was very thorough and detailed regarding diamond grading. It would be totally inappropriate to assume that these gentlemen in any way, shape or form presented any bias regarding any particular vendor. AGS grades diamonds - period - from lots of different sources. The number of stones they grade from any particular vendor is between them and said vendor and had nothing to do with our conversation. Business models are best left to business owners.

They were passionate about the work they do and their credentials to do so were very impressive. I am quite sure that they would be willing to do a presentation for any company that would like to invite them. They certainly operate on a level of moral integrity as to not infer any preference to any vendor whether they do business with them or not.
 
blueMA said:
I've learned how fiercely loyal the CBI fans are on this board to the point that some actually argue that math, proportions, angles don't matter and CBI stones must have a "secret" that makes the diamonds look consistently the same.

This cannot be further from the truth, and anyone who have read the past hot technical threads on PS between the world's top vendor experts (including CBI) would know that it really does come down to the angles, proportions and precision cut execution that determines diamond's visual performance. A diamond with 40.7 pavillion vs 40.9 pavillion will NOT look the same, and CBI produces across the range accompanied by varying crown angles and table. It is like challenging someone's religion...
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The first rule of fight club = Do not talk about fight club.

The first rule of diamond appearance = Do not talk about one proportion by itself. Not even one measurement by itself! They all work together and all measurements are averages of multiple numbers. If the pavilion is X and crown, table, halves, stars are 12345 it could equate nicely with pavilion Y and the rest 54321 and you will need far more than all the average numbers if you are trying to intuit little details between super cut diamonds.

Also another reason for being loyal is the amount of education I have received from Paul and John on how and why they do things a certain way that makes CBI diamonds a consistent and excellent performer each and every time. The level of service form Wink HPD and his team every time is faultless.

When a product and service exceeds your expectation that = loyalty and this is built over time not overnight.
 
egemnoel said:
The first rule of fight club = Do not talk about fight club.
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Really? An Exhibit A response on my "It is like challenging someone's religion..."

egemnoel said:
The first rule of diamond appearance = Do not talk about one proportion by itself. Not even one measurement by itself!
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From my post https://www.pricescope.com/communit...and-vid-comparison.236493/page-3#post-4344199

"I'm just sharing a copy/paste of the proportions I've noted from the CBI inventory while I was trying to search out my stones. As you can see, the pavillion angle varies from 40.7-40.9 and the visual differences from .1 change in the pavillion is huge.

CBI
56.8, 61.2, 34.2, 40.7, 55 77 - OP's
56.7, 61.3, 34.5, 40.9, 51 43.3, 77, tm
57.2, 60.9, 34.1, 40.8. 51 43.1, 78, tst
56.1, 61.9, 34.4, 40.8, 51 43.1, 77, tst
56.9, 61.4, 34.6, 40.8, 50 43.1, 77, tm
56.4, 61.5, 34.3, 40.8, 51 43.1, 77, tst
56.4, 61.7, 34.5, 40.8, 50 43.2, 76, tm
"
Assessing the shared proportions from the CBI diamonds above, do you really think they'll look and perform the same? No this is not a "cheat sheet" as someone had described, and everyone understands that this is only an aspect to be considered. However you simply can't ignore the numbers, and yes they do matter greatly.

Lula said:
What I meant by "secret sauce" is cut consistency within a brand.
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https://www.pricescope.com/communit...and-vid-comparison.236493/page-3#post-4344097

"BlueMA: ...However, CBI does not have some magic formula for cutting MRB that other vendors aren't aware/capable of.

Lula:
And how exactly do you know this for a fact?"


We all agree CBI produces high quality diamonds and I have the highest respect and admiration for their commitment to quality & precision execution. However, this does not equate to saying that CBI diamonds will consistently outperform diamonds from other vendors.
 
<< “We all agree CBI produces high quality diamonds and I have the highest respect and admiration for their commitment to quality & precision execution. However, this does not equate to saying that CBI diamonds will consistently outperform diamonds from other vendors. >>

This is the fundamental issue. CBI owners are saying they are consistent.

My quote from previous thread

"they do things a certain way that makes CBI diamonds a consistent and excellent performer each and every time. The level of service form Wink HPD and his team every time is faultless"

Some recent videos may have shown CBI more eye catching that an ACA, everybody is different and will see things very differently and what appeals to them may not appeal to others. That does not take away from the fact in my perspective CBI are the most consistent, fireball of sparkles I have ever seen.

Another point to make is most of the other vendors do not cut their own diamonds so this is an element out of their control. Again this is where I find CBI a winner in that everything is done in house and each phase is meticulously checked over and over until the end product is reached.

I may retract that pint offer, incase it ends up over me :twirl:
 
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