Help on Loose Diamond

[LadyLynn]

Hello! First-time poster here I am in the market for a round brilliant 1.0-1.3 carat diamond for a white gold 4 prong cathedral setting with G-H melee diamonds along the band. We were advised we could go as low as an I color, and we are trying to stay in the VS2 and above clarity just because we don't trust our level of knowledge to pick out a great SI1. Our biggest concern was getting the best cut for the strongest and most balanced light return that stays within size and budget (about $6500, give or take a little if warranted). We began the process on this diamond: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-2209468

It was about $6700. Our only concern was that the inclusions seem to be reflecting a lot in the diamond due to where they are placed, but we were advised it should not create a haze or cause any light or beauty issues. Now leaning on everyone's expertise here for an additional level of buying confidence...

1) should there be any concern with this diamond or did we make a good decision? (please let us know if we should stop immediately and not pass go)
2) or should we have changed some of our specs (such as higher color, based on the setting specs)
3) or is there another diamond you would recommend over this one from any of the online retailers (JA, BG, or others).

Thank you in advance for your info and support!

 

[rockysalamander]

The proportions on that diamond are really nice. Nice work. As long as you are ok with their upgrade policy, which is pretty standard.


if you would like a more generous option to upgrade at only $1 more for any upgrade, you could look at Whiteflash or HighPerformanceDiamonds. I did not see anything at WF (you could give them a call to see if they have any in the pipeline that get you the same size within budget...I'd be flexible on clarity).

Brian Gavin ha two stones in the same size and specs and budget. Future upgrades require you to upgrade two of three (color, clarity, size)...still better than double, but that is not onerous. And, this stone is a super-ideal and will be a stunner. These are both fluorescent, so under strong UV light, they will emit a bit of blue. I adore this effect!

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...083-i-vvs2-round-diamond-ags-cbl-104103554004
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...1.090-i-vs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104076722029

For me, the BGD is the better choice given you get a better upgrade option, but you have to make the final call.

 

[LadyLynn]

The proportions on that diamond are really nice. Nice work. As long as you are ok with their upgrade policy, which is pretty standard.


if you would like a more generous option to upgrade at only $1 more for any upgrade, you could look at Whiteflash or HighPerformanceDiamonds. I did not see anything at WF (you could give them a call to see if they have any in the pipeline that get you the same size within budget...I'd be flexible on clarity).

Brian Gavin ha two stones in the same size and specs and budget. Future upgrades require you to upgrade two of three (color, clarity, size)...still better than double, but that is not onerous. And, this stone is a super-ideal and will be a stunner. These are both fluorescent, so under strong UV light, they will emit a bit of blue. I adore this effect!

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...083-i-vvs2-round-diamond-ags-cbl-104103554004
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...1.090-i-vs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104076722029

For me, the BGD is the better choice given you get a better upgrade option, but you have to make the final call.

Thanks Rockysalamander! So to be sure - the reflector inclusions in this JA diamond are not worrisome? I do love BGD diamonds and those are gorg. I will have to talk to my guy and see if he can get past the fluorescence factor. He's not on the "blue is cool" train yet, but the upgrade factor might have him rethink. Thanks again for your time!

 

[rockysalamander]

The VS1 will be absolutely pristine. No clarity or inclusions to worry about being visible.

That is one of the selling features of the BGD blue line. One of the things that is important is to learn to identify your diamond from its clarity plot. You use a 10x loupe and fine all the tiny flaws. If you ever get work done, the jeweler should do the same. My grandmother had a little sketch space on her intake form and did just that. You look at the sketch and it should be similar to yours. Once they hand the ring back, you examine it again -- looking for your familiar friends. If they don't match, you bring that up immediately. Inclusions are like birth-marks. With high clarity diamonds, it can be much harder to find the inclusion. So, the blue flour is another visual signature of the diamond. None of the common similants fluoresce blue. They are all orange or yellow or flour. So, this little characteristics will really help you add a visual cue that you got back your stone. Swaps are rare, but they do happen.

So, buying the BGD is really just another way of protecting your future.

Which setting are you looking at?

 

[sledge]

Agree with @rockysalamander, you did great on the JA pick. That is a highly sought after angle combo. That said, I would probably consider WF, HPD or BGD because of much better trade up programs.

I personally bought my fiancee a BGD Blue stone, 0.867 H VS2 with medium fluor. Absolutely no issues with the fluor whatsoever. Also Lesley was a jewel of a treat to get to work with during the process. I have zero hesitations about recommending them to you.

As far as the stones go, I really like the 1.083. You get additionally clarity but that small 55 table and angle combo will be very fiery. Not that anything is wrong with a 57 table but generally speaking, the smaller the table the more fire as the table size decreases the upper girdle facets increase which is where rainbow light (fire) is seen. A larger 57 table will be a little better balanced as it will have a little more white light. Keep in mind, at 54-57 they are all beautiful but I prefer fire so I like that little extra punch.

Also, for both stones ask Lesley to send you the hearts images. They are available upon request and will be blue in color to match the branding of BGD Blue. More importantly the precision of the hearts tells us about the precision symmetry and cut of a stone. Please post for us to see if you don't mind.

ETA:
Lastly, ask Lesley to compare the stones side by side to see if any color variance exists. Also may ask if these are strong, weak or medium I colored stones and how they compare against a GIA I color stone as the JA TH is a GIA stone.

 

[LadyLynn]

The VS1 will be absolutely pristine. No clarity or inclusions to worry about being visible.

That is one of the selling features of the BGD blue line. One of the things that is important is to learn to identify your diamond from its clarity plot. You use a 10x loupe and fine all the tiny flaws. If you ever get work done, the jeweler should do the same. My grandmother had a little sketch space on her intake form and did just that. You look at the sketch and it should be similar to yours. Once they hand the ring back, you examine it again -- looking for your familiar friends. If they don't match, you bring that up immediately. Inclusions are like birth-marks. With high clarity diamonds, it can be much harder to find the inclusion. So, the blue flour is another visual signature of the diamond. None of the common similants fluoresce blue. They are all orange or yellow or flour. So, this little characteristics will really help you add a visual cue that you got back your stone. Swaps are rare, but they do happen.

So, buying the BGD is really just another way of protecting your future.

Which setting are you looking at?

Hi @rockysalamander, thank you for the point about sketching. This will be my first diamond other than some small earrings I treated myself to years ago, so there is plenty I still need to get educated on in terms of future care and protection. My guy is from a very small town and wants to use a jeweler who has served all of his family's jewelry for decades. I just wasn't happy with the price point of the diamonds we were looking at there and how far our dollar could go, so we opted to get an online loose diamond and have the B&M jeweler set it in a setting he sells. So far it looks like the Erica style in white gold from Gabriel (https://www.gabrielny.com/engagement-ring/ER7225W44JJ) I'm including pictures of this one on my hand at the end of the post, face up and side view.

4 versus 6 prong: I've read mixed feedback on the security of 4 prongs. The identical setting is available in a 6 prong (https://www.gabrielny.com/engagement-ring/ER7430W44JJ), but I thought it might swallow the diamond size a little and not highlight that pretty sideview as much as the 4 prong. It wasn't available in store to try it on at the time.

Do you have any advice or preference here on security of 4 versus 6? And if one would be more detrimental to the appearance of the diamond in terms of size visualization or light entry?

band width and tcw of setting: We also went back and forth on total carat weight and band width of the setting. Both the 4 and 6 prong come in a thinner 1.8mm band (instead of the 2.2-2.3mm) and with .25 tcw instead of the .5 tcw. We haven't tried the thinner band but could request to call them in to the store. I thought the thinner band might be less secure for the melee diamonds, but could also help make the diamond look larger in a little eye game play.

Sooo many choices still to be made. And here we thought the center diamond would be the hardest part :roll We'd like security for sure, but also want something that helps to highlight the beauty and size of whatever diamond we finally get as that is where the bulk of the budget is going.

 

[LadyLynn]

Agree with @rockysalamander, you did great on the JA pick. That is a highly sought after angle combo. That said, I would probably consider WF, HPD or BGD because of much better trade up programs.

I personally bought my fiancee a BGD Blue stone, 0.867 H VS2 with medium fluor. Absolutely no issues with the fluor whatsoever. Also Lesley was a jewel of a treat to get to work with during the process. I have zero hesitations about recommending them to you.

As far as the stones go, I really like the 1.083. You get additionally clarity but that small 55 table and angle combo will be very fiery. Not that anything is wrong with a 57 table but generally speaking, the smaller the table the more fire as the table size decreases the upper girdle facets increase which is where rainbow light (fire) is seen. A larger 57 table will be a little better balanced as it will have a little more white light. Keep in mind, at 54-57 they are all beautiful but I prefer fire so I like that little extra punch.

Also, for both stones ask Lesley to send you the hearts images. They are available upon request and will be blue in color to match the branding of BGD Blue. More importantly the precision of the hearts tells us about the precision symmetry and cut of a stone. Please post for us to see if you don't mind.

ETA:
Lastly, ask Lesley to compare the stones side by side to see if any color variance exists. Also may ask if these are strong, weak or medium I colored stones and how they compare against a GIA I color stone as the JA TH is a GIA stone.

I am a fire lover as well @sledge so that's a great point to add to the decision making table. Thank you! I'm not currently at home but will make those requests once my guy and I can sit down and talk. His mind is in super bowl mode at the moment

 

[rockysalamander]

@LadyLynn

If you go with BGD, I really would have them set the diamond for you. They have insurance to cover it, in case of damage, and can replace "in kind." Your local jeweler won't have access to BGD stones. If that is impossible, that make sure your jeweler is insured for damage or loss of the diamond that they did not sell. Setting is a dangerous time for diamonds. I would also carry your own, private insurance through Jewellers Mutual. They are not cheap, but they will cover diamonds in transit and setting. Make sure you upload your diamonds details, certificates, and such to Jeweller's Mutual before you hand it off to the local jeweller. Frankly, it should be in place before you take posession of the stone from the vendor. Insure for the amount you paid plus 10%. Nothing more.

band width and tcw of setting: I personally like to see shanks (aka bands) that are 1.9 mm as the minimum for a cast setting or from a jeweler we PS members don't know. You need enough metal to avoid warping and torque over time. You have nice long fingers, so have plenty of room. Go with the wider shank.

So, the setting you posted leaves the girdles (the widest part) of the side stones exposed. Diamond eat everything. So, if those girdles stick out beyond the metal prongs, they will eat a wedding band sitting flush. If you want a diamond band, that may mean you need to add a spacer band, so the diamonds rub on the metal and not on the other diamonds. I'll post an example from another PS membe.r Its a lovely look and very popular, so I'm not discouraging, just noting.

What can make your diamond look bigger, is when the setting tapers narrow at the top (like the last BGD I posted below).

Alternative to the Gabriel you choose with a more protected side stone option. This setting is identical in design, but the diamonds are bead-set pave. There is a metal rim on the outside that will allow this ring to mix with any band.
https://www.gabrielny.com/engagement-ring/ER12279R3W44JJ

Others.
BGD - this is a very pretty setting. https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/pave-and-side-stones/gaia-platinum-5983p
BGD - Those prongs are divine. This is how 4 prongs are made to avoid worries. https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...-side-stones/sprinkling-novela-platinum-7128p
BGD - my favorite. https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...tones/4-prong-sleek-micro-pave-platinum-5472p

4 versus 6 prong: , A well cut diamond only accepts light from the table. So, the prongs and setting have no impact on light return. But, it will make seeing the side a bit harder.

Putting aside visual preference, 6-prongs is always safer. With 6 prongs, if you snag one and bend it, you have less chance of losing the diamond. With 4, you lose one prong and the diamond can be gone. If you have the option, I always opt for platinum. Platinum will deform when struck hard, but it will be smushed around the diamond -- it won't break. Gold can break and your diamond is gone. But, this setting only comes in gold, so 6-prongs would be my easy choice. But, others would say, insure it and wear what YOU like.

I think Tiffany does very nice prong-work. Pasted below is a great example of their current classic setting with prongs that are nice goal. The picture below is a .96 c diamond. I think this looks in perfect proportion.

If you like these or find other prong-tips you like, BRING pictures to the jeweller. They are not mind readers and will have their own ideas about what you mean by Tiffany prngs. You must bring visual examples of what you want. Its not enough to say I want "Tiffany prongs". I recommend you say, "I want these, like this specific picture. Can you do this exactly like this picture?" Again, find prong tips you like, but be clear what you want. If you went with BGD, delicate claw prongs would also be nice.

If you go with 6 prongs, I would personally not want the prong on the arrows - as shown in these pictures. I like to see my perfect arrows.





Prong orientation - I prefer this. the arrows are rotated so that the prong is still N/S, but you can see the full arrows. This is simply personal preference


Ok. I think I covered your questions. In the end, you do what works for you and your guy. I have total confidence in BGD, their skill and customer service. If you were my sister, I'd say that is where I'd send you between JA, BGD and local jeweler. But, if your guy is stuck on this, then just be clear about what you like and don't.

 

[rockysalamander]

Here are a few examples of spacer bands. They can be quite small and barely seen. I actually wear one on the outside of my rings in winter. My rings are sized for summer fingers, so they can get loose in winter. So I wear a little band on the nail side of the set.



This one is just for the looks, but its a pretty twisted metal.


This one has sapphires. See how the sapphire band is quite low, so the girdles of the diamonds on the two rings float over it.


1- Speaking of size, you need to get your ering size for your summer fingers. Pave rings can only be decreased in size by .25-.5 without being rebuilt. They can go up, maybe 1 size.

2- Your fingers are narrower at the base than the knuckle. So, your ring will need to pass over you knuckle without any pain. It can be snug, but not painful! That will lead to the ring likely spinning. So, you will very likely need to add bands anyway over time. The bands will help make the rings tighter. You may want to look for a wide wedding band, or simply add a nice stack for various events.



Stacking.


I forgot to ask, what do you do professionally (or are studying to do)? Many careers influence what makes sense for a setting style.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Thanks Rockysalamander! So to be sure - the reflector inclusions in this JA diamond are not worrisome? I do love BGD diamonds and those are gorg. I will have to talk to my guy and see if he can get past the fluorescence factor. He's not on the "blue is cool" train yet, but the upgrade factor might have him rethink. Thanks again for your time!

Don't let anybody scare you from buying a blue fluor stone. Here's my daughter's med blue from BGD.

Under the sun.


Indoor.


Under a UV light.

 

[LadyLynn]

Don't let anybody scare you from buying a blue fluor stone. Here's my daughter's med blue from BGD.

Under the sun.


Indoor.


Under a UV light.

That is gorgeous @Dancing Fire !!

 

[LadyLynn]

Hi @rockysalamander Your post was absolutely wonderful . I can’t thank you enough for your time and thoughts! Your advice has been very helpful. I know it’s been a hot minute since I responded and there is good reason – lots to update on the ring process. So here we go.

BGD option: I began an email and follow-up phone convo with Brie at BGD earlier this week but I noticed my guy seemed a little bothered this week. I was finally able to get him to say he really had his heart set on his family’s jeweler and having it set “back home”. While I know BGD’s reputation for unmatched quality and showed my guy the research I had and testimonials/pics and the three settings I had narrowed it down to, I think he just could not emotionally let go of his original idea. I truly us to both be happy in this process and have it live up to expectations we've both had in our mind about engagement. He was thoughtful enough to include me in the process which I love and let me be picky about the diamonds we are selecting AND let me select a larger center stone than he said he would have planned on had he bought it alone (I do research for a living and can obsess – happily – over the details, while he doesn’t like dealing with details and gets overwhelmed easily). Soooo that all being said, I think I'm left with likely some Gabriel settings or others sold at the “home” store. My rationale is I truly didn’t even know about BGD until I started the diamond research – so while I love the idea of BGD, it’s not necessarily a lifelong dream I can’t give up. I will compromise here *sigh* The things we do for love haha. Ok dramatic moment over

4 versus 6 prong decision: Your selection of one of the gabriel cathedrals with more side metal was helpful in seeing how one could more easily and safely pair with a wedding band. I appreciate it and plan to ask if they can change the band portion but keep the head of the one I posted pics of earlier last week (called the Erica). I also see how the spacers aren’t too noticeable so that may be a nice alternative for stacking if this customization idea doesn’t work. Thank you for some many pics - it really helped visualize what you were saying. Also, yesterday we were at the mall and I tried on some six prongs in a random jewelry store. I think I can now say confidently that I want the 4 prong just because of my preferences for the clean, sharp aesthetics of the side view which I feel like I will see the most since I’m always working at a computer.

Solid band cathedral makes a last minute entry!: I also tried on a 4 prong solid band cathedral yesterday at my guy’s encouragement (he adores classic and clean looks). It was similar in band width and had a nice beveled edging on the band to give it some character. I was surprised I liked it as much as I did. I wasn't sure I liked the trellis prongs. I thought it makes the diamond (or CZ in this case) look smaller than it is from the side, though the salesperson said it looked larger on face up view when compared to the pave band. I also didn't get the illusion that the diamond sat up nice and tall without actually being set tall. But I was told they could do the straighter V prongs I like.

I put the solid band into a collage that shows it next to the pave Erica that I also tried on again since I hadn’t seen it in person since early December (wanted to see if it was what I remembered and I do still love it) I had to blur out a six prong I was trying on my middle finger. Do you have a preference/advice on which looks better for my hand, solid or pave cathedral (noting I would likely change the band on the pave to have that more surrounding metal)?



Loose Diamond Update: The loose diamond I initially mentioned also arrived this past Thurs and it is very pretty! (so many ring related things going on this week). It was sent with an ideal scope so I was able to geek out with it a little. I think it’s a keeper. We are also beginning the process to have the loose diamond insured with JM (I did not know about needing to insure it before we hand it off to anyone for setting – so THANK YOU!!)

The engagement train is gaining steam!: My guy and I are actually travelling back to his old hometown for a wedding next weekend and he’s hoping I have a final decision on setting by then (Yikes! The pressure is on) so we can begin moving forward. Now that the diamond is in hand, he’s in love with its sparkle and size and can’t stop taking it out to admire it and continues to bring up wanting to have it set. While he loses some points for not being sold on BGD, he gains some back for the cute excitement factor.