Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose :-)

[skingsland]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

This one is a 6.5 mm octagonal stone on a size 4.5 finger. This is a faraway shot to give a real life perspective of size on the hand.


7 mm cushion cut on a very thin band on the same hand.


An 8x 10 mm oval on a size 4.5 finger.

Chrono,

Thanks for posting these!!

After staring at all three for a while, I feel that the 6.5mm stone looks the closest to "right", for me at least. The 7mm is a little large, and the oval is just too big for my situation. So I guess 6.5mm is what I'm shooting for, for now; although my inkling is to err on the side of larger if I'm truly uncertain.

I've decided that I'm going to follow the suggestion of going into a jewelry store and looking at diamonds to get a rough idea of what size looks right. I'm willing to bet the tip of my pinky finger is probably a 4.5 or 5 ring size.

 

[skingsland]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

Here are a couple photos of a native cut sapphire that Jeff sent me.

First, in natural light:


And in incandescent light:


And here is what he had to say about it:

It will cut a round of 6.0-6.75 mm, and it is a gorgeous, vivid blue. I would call it a medium to medium-dark, most similar to #1 in the images you linked (possibly a bit darker). This color is just a bit on the light side of "optimum" for blue sapphire, so it is a very desireable color. Clarity is excellent, and the finished stone will be eye-clean, possibly flawless. There is some slight zoning visible when viewed "upside down," but it shouldn't be visible when in the normal (face-up) position. With regard to treatments: this one has been heated, but only by the traditional method (no chemical diffusion, etc).

And here is the Richard Homer gem I'm comparing it to:

I realize it's probably hard to compare a native cut to a zoomed in final cut sapphire, but which do you folks like the best? And why?

-Steve

 

[skingsland]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

The background is very dark so I’m inclined to believe the stone might be brighter in person. Have you asked Richard his opinion and description of the colour of that particular sapphire?

Yup, and here is what Richard had to say about the 2 that I am most seriously considering:

The first gem, Registry #6686, is a stunningly rich and deep blue color yet with astounding saturation and brilliance for its quality of color. This is a high end deep gem reminiscent of Burmese material. It is gloriously rich and vibrant...a color that many people seek avidly and one that would make a wonderful engagement gem with its royal blue color. THere is no zoning, no green or violet secondary hues, no desaturating grayishness, and will hold its color very well. Its deep color will not show its brilliance in candlelight like the other candidates (being lighter in tone) but that is the compromise one always has to make in nature....this color quality only exists in a deeper tone which, by its nature, does not lend itself to the level of maximum brilliance that a lighter toned gem would have.

The last gem, Registry #6156, is a superb gem with what I would consider the ideal best of both worlds in the concept of hue, tone, and saturation. As I mentioned, the Sapphire does not exist that has maximum saturation with lighter tones, so, one always has to compromise ones attributes...giving up some saturation for more brilliance or giving up some brilliance for depth of color and saturation...such is the way of mother nature and her immutable laws of physics.

 

[skingsland]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

I'm also going to suggest another possible way of going about your project... Instead of starting with the stone, you might want to take a look a few different custom jewelers (Leon Mege, James Meyer, Mark Morrell and definitely www.mc2jewels.com as Harriet suggested might be good places to start) and see if you fall in love with a particular style. Your budget is pretty healthy, so I think having a ring crafted just for you is the best way to go. Sometimes the jeweler will be able to source great stones and at better prices than if you supply your own.

That's a great idea; I'll take a look at the designs on their websites and see if anything catches my eye. Thanks!

 

[gemmygemma]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

Don't forget in some ways it's all about shape. I just tried a similar experiment and brought my sister who has slightly smaller size but, like, fatter fingers than my gf, and stuff looked completely different. Ditto for my pinky! You can get a generl size, but check out the shape of your gf's hand.

I can aslo verify that some ladies really do not want size. Mine said she wanted understated, and we wound up browsing together, and she really wants understated. She is really picky about the design. She compares it to a chair on Mad Men as opposed to one in Versailles. So, on both counts, I think veloria has a point. Err on the side of large, sure, but make sure it's what she wants and fits her lifestyle and is her fashion. Second, for us it really started to come together when I knew what we wanted in a design.

 

[chrono]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

Richard has given excellent advice about sapphires; when a stone is very saturated, one gives up some brilliance and vice versa. Did you ask him about how it shifts under incandescent lighting? You can see this shift which I think all sapphires do in the two pictures Jeff White sent you. I have to admit being quite impressed with Jeff’s sapphire under natural lighting which is the best lighting situation to show off a blue sapphire. Under incandescent lighting, blue sapphires tend to get a little grayer and darker.

 

[skingsland]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

Richard has given excellent advice about sapphires; when a stone is very saturated, one gives up some brilliance and vice versa. Did you ask him about how it shifts under incandescent lighting? You can see this shift which I think all sapphires do in the two pictures Jeff White sent you. I have to admit being quite impressed with Jeff’s sapphire under natural lighting which is the best lighting situation to show off a blue sapphire. Under incandescent lighting, blue sapphires tend to get a little grayer and darker.

Great question; I just asked Richard about how the larger of his gems would fare in different lighting, and here's what he said:

Both gems hold up well because they have no VIOLET in the blue....thats the key....with violet comes purple when viewed in incandescent light. That is why inky gems are less desirable overall...though they look great in white light (where there is a preponderance of blue wavelengths of light).

He went on to say that he'd try to take a picture for me with incandescent lighting, but he's not really setup for that so it might take a while.

 

[movie zombie]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

both stones are lovely. my fav: 6686. i like the description richard gave you but in all honesty i liked it the first time i saw the picture. my only concern was that it would be over saturated but richard seems to think not.

again, both are good choices.

mz

 

[Largosmom]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

I went with a Jeff White color-change sapphire and have no regrets. I assume your girlfriend likes concave cuts? The appearance is quite different than a standard cut...very shimmery, less larger flashes of color. That is a big difference between what Jeff White generally creates versus Richard Homer's work. Both are very good...just different!

When I started the process, I looked at the local stores near me (I am in Southern Virginia). They had to get some sapphires in for me to look at. With even just 6-7 stones, I quickly decided that I wanted a precision cut stone rather than a native cut, understood the concept of color zoning (bands of color in the stone), and figured out what my budget was. I made the mistake of purchasing a setting first (oy). I could have had a bit larger stone for my money if I had not, as Jeff recut a larger, native cut stone, in order to get mine. I also found that I could afford a heated stone, though I would have liked to have had one that had no treatments at all. For me this was the trading space between treatments versus size with my budget. There were also far fewer options for a color change sapphire. I also found that dealing with Jeff was far cheaper than a local jewelry store, comparing the stone quality. I looked at stones ranging from $1400 to $3500, none of which was as nice as what I got for a price in the middle. If you look at local stones, you may also find this to be the case.

Sorry, but I don't agree with "smaller is better"...if you can handle a larger stone with your budget, I'd go for one that will show up well on her finger. DC is "south" but it's also a very diverse area, culturally, and I would not call it generally conservative. People occasionally noticed my old marquis-cut sapphire because it was blue, not because it was beautiful. They notice my new ring and stone because it has a lot of bling, is gorgeous, and I get a lot of compliments on it. I love my setting, and may have picked something similar anyway, but if I were starting the process again, I'd go for the stone, then the setting.

Sorry for my rambling...hope something here helps!

edited to add: I went back and reread your criteria...not too blingy...a lot of that will come from the setting as from the stone. A fine stone in a simple setting will look far less blingy than a smaller stone in a setting with lots of other diamonds. As to stone size, you might consider doing a little comparison "window" shopping in addition to the online shopping to see what size stones look good on her finger and get her reactions to them. When I was originally shopping, many years ago, the salesperson had a watersoluble felt tip marker and would color the diamond blue for me so that I could visualize a sapphire in the setting.

 

[skingsland]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

Largosmom, it sounds like you are well beyond my understanding of sapphires at this point!

My girlfriend isn't offering any input into this process, other than "not too big", so I honestly have no idea if she would like a concave cut, or what size, setting, nothing. For that matter, I don't really get the difference between Jeff White's stones and Richard Homer's. I've gone back and re-read folks' descriptions of cut, saturation, zoning, brilliance, etc. and I have a really hard time visualizing what people are talking about. Maybe when I finally see some of these stones in person I'll get it.

 

[chrono]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

I was under the impression that you were aiming for a concave faceted stone but I am incorrect. Yes, there is a huge visual difference between traditional flat faceting and concave cutting. Richard Homer does both styles (yes, he does traditional flat faceting by request as he did for me in the past) and there are also other precision cutters like Gene Flanigan who does concave faceting. When one looks at a traditional cut stone, the stone will flash huge blocks of colour. They are extremely lively and brilliant. In concave cut stones, the effect is different. I’ve noticed that most people either love it or hate it with very few in between. Concave faceting is more muted or some will call it static. The stone will shimmer with smaller pin point flashes. I hope you get the opportunity to see at least one in person to either eliminate this or decide if this is something you both will love.

 

[skingsland]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

I was under the impression that you were aiming for a concave faceted stone but I am incorrect. Yes, there is a huge visual difference between traditional flat faceting and concave cutting. Richard Homer does both styles (yes, he does traditional flat faceting by request as he did for me in the past) and there are also other precision cutters like Gene Flanigan who does concave faceting. When one looks at a traditional cut stone, the stone will flash huge blocks of colour. They are extremely lively and brilliant. In concave cut stones, the effect is different. I’ve noticed that most people either love it or hate it with very few in between. Concave faceting is more muted or some will call it static. The stone will shimmer with smaller pin point flashes. I hope you get the opportunity to see at least one in person to either eliminate this or decide if this is something you both will love.

You're right; it would help A LOT if I could narrow it down to flat vs. concave faceting. Do you think if I went to my local jeweler they might have examples of both? (even diamonds or other stones might help...)

Or is Richard Homer one of the only guys in the business who's doing concave faceting? In which case, getting him to send me a sapphire or two might be the only way to see what it looks like.

 

[Fly Girl]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

I was under the impression that you were aiming for a concave faceted stone but I am incorrect. Yes, there is a huge visual difference between traditional flat faceting and concave cutting. Richard Homer does both styles (yes, he does traditional flat faceting by request as he did for me in the past) and there are also other precision cutters like Gene Flanigan who does concave faceting. When one looks at a traditional cut stone, the stone will flash huge blocks of colour. They are extremely lively and brilliant. In concave cut stones, the effect is different. I’ve noticed that most people either love it or hate it with very few in between. Concave faceting is more muted or some will call it static. The stone will shimmer with smaller pin point flashes. I hope you get the opportunity to see at least one in person to either eliminate this or decide if this is something you both will love.

"Concave faceting is more muted or some will call it static."

Having seen Richard Homer's concave cut stones, I would never describe them at muted or static. They are much more lively, bright and flashy than flat faceting. I think concave faceting works to bring life and color to stones, especially those with darker colors, such as amethyst or these blue sapphires. Richard's work is very appealing in person; static photos CANNOT capture the concave faceting effects.

Going with either cutter should give you a stunning ring. And, I fully understand not wanting a huge, difficult to wear, ring. As for the meaning of "not too big", I would stay under 7mm, or so.

Good luck to you. I wish she were giving you more input, as I think it is terribly unfair for a young woman to expect her man to read her mind as to what she wants.

 

[chrono]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

Your local jeweller is very unlikely to have any concave cut stones. Diamonds are never cut in this design so that wouldn’t help either. Another option is to contact Richard to see if there is a jeweller who might be within driving distance who might have a stone of his to show you. I know that Roger Dery, Gene Flanigan and possibly John Dyer all do concave faceting.

FlyGirl,
I hope you will agree to disagree with me about concave faceting. I own a Richard Homer concave cut stone and have seen a few others that that is only my personal observation and opinion. In fact, I find darker stones to be less attractive when concave cut when compared to flat faceting. IIRC, Richard Homer himself may have voiced his opinion as well that darker stones are not good candidates for concave faceting. With it being a slightly deeper cut, concave faceting deepens the colour and saturation, thus I find aquamarines, chrysoberyls, spessartites and other similarly lighter coloured stones really pop a lot more than amethysts and blue sapphires. Or to put it simply, the effect of concave faceting also shows much better in lighter toned stones. As I said before, it seems that either one loves it or one doesn’t. So although I own one of Richard’s amazingly cut concave facet cut stones, I much prefer his traditional cut ones, so perhaps my bias is showing through.

 

[Fly Girl]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

Chrono - I have been to two Richard Homer round tables, so I saw and handled a couple hundred of his stones. I was most impressed with the effect of concave faceting on the darker gems, as it brought out amazing flashes of light. I just don't see how concave faceting can be called "static", so we will have to disagree on that point.

Once again to the OP, there is no way to read your girl friend's mind on this, even if you go to see the stones yourself. I hope you can get her more involved in the process, since this involves a great deal of money and is a very personal piece of jewelry. It also sounds like she does have likes and dislikes, which makes it really tough for any of us to know what she is looking for.

 

[skingsland]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

Once again to the OP, there is no way to read your girl friend's mind on this, even if you go to see the stones yourself. I hope you can get her more involved in the process, since this involves a great deal of money and is a very personal piece of jewelry. It also sounds like she does have likes and dislikes, which makes it really tough for any of us to know what she is looking for.

I could be wrong on this, but she's not that into fine jewelry. She has some costume jewelry that she wears, but it's mostly necklaces. I think there are only 1 or 2 rings that she wears on a regular basis. I can guarantee she's never heard of "concave faceting".

So even if I get her more involved, I don't think she'll know what she wants. So my plan is to just get the nicest, classiest, most beautiful sapphire ring I can afford, that's not too over-the-top ostentatious.

 

[T L]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

I wish Richard Homer would photograph the stone against a lighter background, and I wouldn't take ANYONE's word that a stone is traditionally heated, or unheated, I would want reputable lab proof. That goes for any vendor, even the most trustworthy.

 

[Largosmom]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

Personally, I'm not into the concave faceting. One of my local jewelry stores does carry that type of cutting...suggest you look around at more of the mom and pop places that have a local goldsmith or does custom work. You can make a few calls around and ask them if they have any stones you can look at. In the photos, you will see that the concave cut is more like chipped ice than chunky ice...the facets reflect the lite in much smaller rays than normal flat facets. Jeff White's stones just look different. You could compare them side by side on your computer. In my opinion, your dollar will go a little further with Jeff, as Richard's concave work demands a bit more of a premium price. I don't want to discourage you from using Richard though...he does have very nice stones.

I have a feeling if your girlfriend is not into the bling so much, that a standard precision cut stone will be more her style. You may wish to show her pictures, maybe of a different type of stone so as not to clue her in as much...maybe citrine or something like that, in the concave cut versus the regular cut.

I suggest you check Whiteflash for settings...they have beautiful, classic styles and although I haven't purchased from them, I have never heard of someone being disappointed with a setting from them.

Laura

 

[stepcutgirl]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

I personally do not like concave stones, they remind me of the 80's class rings, but some people love them. With regards to Jeff's stone, I'm attaching here a picture of mine before it was recut by JW, the color seems very close to mine.

ETA-looking at both pictures I'd say the one he has photographed for you is actually brighter than mine and you can see the after in my avatar.

 

[skingsland]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

I wish Richard Homer would photograph the stone against a lighter background, and I wouldn't take ANYONE's word that a stone is traditionally heated, or unheated, I would want reputable lab proof. That goes for any vendor, even the most trustworthy.

Per my request, Richard just sent me a photo of his larger 2 gems, with incandescent lighting:



Here is how he described his setup for photographing them, if you're curious:

I managed to install my camera set up with 100% incandescent light.....I closed off all windows which allowed natural daylight to stream in, all internal fluorescent light, as well as the fluorescent lighting of my normal camera set up; then I just turned on average indoor incandescent lighting so I could see what I was doing without bumping into things and set up a normal 40W desk lamp near the stones to illuminate them. I tried to illuminate the gems, not with excessive light, but with what I would think is average ambient light in a totally incandescent living environment.

Of course, we don't live in a totally incandescent environment, nonetheless, the gems will appear in these images at their most affected so you can get a feel of their relative "holding power" one to the other.

Which one do you guys like the best?

For comparison's sake, here they are again in natural light:



My opinion is that they both look like great sapphires. I might change my mind if I saw them in person, but I also feel like I could stare at those 4 photos all afternoon and still not come away with a clear winner. But my eye is hardly "trained"...

(Both gems are well within my budget, so price is not a consideration for me.)

 

[T L]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

The 1.17 ct has some violet in it, and I prefer stones like that, but you may not. I also think it's more saturated in incandescent light than the one on the left, which is a more pure blue, but it does have a touch of grey. The photos in natural light are too dark, with a dark background, for me to guess which one is better. Can he also provide a natural light photo on a lighter background with both stones posed next to each other like the new photo?

 

[kelpie]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

One last question, for now: I'm feeling at a bit of a loss, because I haven't had the chance to look at many sapphires in person yet. I've been to half a dozen jewelry stores, but none of them had more than a few different sapphires in stock. Is there a good place in the washington, dc area where I can go to see a bunch of sapphires (like NSC in NYC)? Are gem shows a good bet?

Thanks!

You should check out Hunt Country jewelers in Hillsboro VA. www.huntcountry.com they are custom goldsmiths and precision lapidaries who cut all their own stones. They're located in nothern Loudon county so it is reasonably close to DC. I'd give them a call and ask if they have any sapphires or rough meeting your expectations.

 

[kelpie]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

To give you some size perspective, here is my antique 5mm sapphire on my size 4.25 hand. I'd think you want 6-7 mm to keep it proportionate to her description of her taste (though my e-ring is 8.5mm it's not for everyone).

 

[FrekeChild]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

I'm not a huge fan of concave faceting either. I think SCG hit it on the head with 80's class rings. I think that if she's more traditional, or isn't giving any real input, then your safest bet would be to go with flat faceting. Odds are, she's never seen it before, but if she has, it was probably in a class ring.

If I were to try to describe the difference (I have seen both types of faceting IRL) I'd say that concave is "spiky" looking, where as a flat faceted stone is not. Have you scoped out the Vendor pictures and owner pictures thread?

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/vendor-pictures-and-owner-pictures-of-ps-stones.109420/

You'll find that many different cutters have different styles. Barry Bridgestock has a very distinctive style--larger "chunky" facets that are apparent in a vast majority of his stones.

You might want to poke around on youtube to see some videos of stones. I know that I've posted some videos of loose gems on there, and I'm guessing that other PSers have as well (I don't know because we're not allowed to post links to our stuff outside of PS for fear of removing anonymity). But if you can find some videos with concave gemstone faceting and traditional flat faceting (note: there probably won't be any special mention of "flat faceting" in video descriptions on youtube) it may help you decide on one vs the other.

I'm voting for the Jeff White btw. I love that color.

 

[movie zombie]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

i'm not a fan of concave cuts either......and now that i've seen the new picture that richard sent, i don't like either stone.

mz

ps i agree with the above that if she's not into bling, she's going to be happier with a precision cut sapphire.

 

[kelpie]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

I'm not a huge fan of concave either, though it does brighten a stone. They look "splintery" to me which is the same reason I don't care for princess cut diamonds. I want the character of the stone to look inviting if that makes sense.

 

[chrono]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

The 1.17 ct sapphire is the winner for me. Yes, it has some violet but seems to hold its colour a lot better than the larger one. The 1.42 ct is bluer but also appears a little grayer under incandescent. I like the violet tint in sapphires too as it gives it a richer hue, but that’s a personal preference. That said, if you want to play it safe, I also second the suggestion to stick with traditional flat faceting but as you know your GF best, follow your instinct.

 

[skingsland]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

The 1.17 ct has some violet in it, and I prefer stones like that, but you may not. I also think it's more saturated in incandescent light than the one on the left, which is a more pure blue, but it does have a touch of grey. The photos in natural light are too dark, with a dark background, for me to guess which one is better. Can he also provide a natural light photo on a lighter background with both stones posed next to each other like the new photo?

I asked him for a lighter background for natural lighting pics, and he said he used the same background for both natural and incandescent light, so it would be easier to compare the stones in the 2 different lighting conditions.

 

[T L]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

The 1.17 ct has some violet in it, and I prefer stones like that, but you may not. I also think it's more saturated in incandescent light than the one on the left, which is a more pure blue, but it does have a touch of grey. The photos in natural light are too dark, with a dark background, for me to guess which one is better. Can he also provide a natural light photo on a lighter background with both stones posed next to each other like the new photo?

I asked him for a lighter background for natural lighting pics, and he said he used the same background for both natural and incandescent light, so it would be easier to compare the stones in the 2 different lighting conditions.

huh? For that price, he should provide you photos to your heart's content. If he doesn't photograph it on a lighter background, I would skip it.

 

[skingsland]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

Quick status update on my sapphire search, then some photos:

I've looked at a LOT of Richard Homer concave cut gems (not just sapphires) on PS, but haven't really had any luck finding them locally. My search on eBay and Youtube, asking Richard for more photos/videos, and searching other websites for concave cut gems didn't really pan out. And I figured I'd probably like the look of them if I saw them in person, but the same is also true of Jeff White from what I can tell. I also contacted Richard Wise and Ed @ Wild Fish, but they didn't have anything in particular that caught my eye.

So, I figured my best option was to just pay Richard Homer for 1 of his 2 sapphires that I liked the best, look at it in person for 3 days, and then return it for a full refund of my money if I'm not crazy about it (less round trip shipping). The other option I could think of was to have Jeff White cut his sapphire for me, but then I'd be out 15% of the cost if I decided to return it.

So now that I have the 1.17 ct richard homer concave cut sapphire in my possession, here are my thoughts (and weak attempts at photos):

First off, this is the first sapphire that I've spent more than 10 or 15 minutes looking at in person. So I don't have a great eye for these things, even though I've spent hours looking at hundreds of them online. AND I haven't had a chance to see it in sunlight yet. That said, it looks like a sapphire to me, with maybe a slight hint purple (that does NOT come through in the photos). I'm not sure what I'm supposed to notice, but I'm not bowled over or anything. I'm going to take some more photos tomorrow in the sunlight, and also bring it in to a local jeweler to compare with their traditional cut sapphires to see if I can appreciate the difference that the concave cut makes.

Oh, and I now have a new appreciation for you folks who take good pictures... holy cow, is that hard! I spent 30+ minutes trying to photograph this (keep in mind that I'm not a photographer... and I was using a cell phone camera), and most of the time I couldn't even get my camera to focus on this little thing!!

Anyway, I'd love to hear what you guys think of my photos, and if you have any advice on taking better pictures, I'm all ears.

Thanks!

Steve