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Here''s a question i have no answer to...

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I'm gonna throw a log on the fire...

Question: What IS adultery?

Obviously, if your SO picks up some random person and shags them, they've been adulterous.

But what if, after months or years of marital problems your SO begins to confide in a person of the opposite sex. They become close, never doing anything more than holding hands and spending time with each other. In essence, connecting on a more emotional than physical level.

Can a long term emotional 'affair' be as (or more so) adulterous than a one night stand?

It's not by textbook definition, but which would make you feel worse?
 
Mmm I would not consider a close personal mental relationship adultery unless he was confiding things in her that should not be confided or keeping secrets from me. I believe men and women can be friends, I have an extremely good guy friend who I used to work with, Greg referred to him as my 'work husband', and we spent ALOT of time together. But he was just a friend, a straight friend! Now he has a girlfriend and I am so happy for him and we are all friends.




However, if I was confiding personal secret items to him about my relationship with Greg..such as things I could not or did not want to share with Greg...that would be somewhat inappropraite I think. But if everyone is aware of the other person and it's all out on the table, I think communication is the key. Secrets are what bodes ill for any couple..esp when they are secrets shared with another person, but not your SO.




Everyone will have a varying opinion of course...but Greg has lots of gal friends that he goes to lunch with etc that were around as casual friends before I was. Personally I think it's about security in your relationship, as well as self-confidence in yourself, and also the bottom line for me is do not think that you can prevent adultery from happening. You can do what you can to make your relationship the absolute best it could be, but if someone is going to stray, they will stray...regardless.
 
ummmm, that wasn't my post.
 
oh, I just read VH's post.... That answer requires too much thought on my part right now VH...LOL...well, you had me until the hand holding...Yup, that'll do it...Where's my baseball bat? hehehehehe
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um yah..NO TOUCHING. hand holding = bad!
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I don't mean pals. One of my best friends is a girl and we're all buddy-buddy. I love hanging out with wimmin. I love to shop!

I mean, within a tumultuous marriage, SO seeks comfort and solace outside the marriage, in secret with a member of the opposite sex. This is clearly different than a standard friendship. Perhaps guilt keeps them from consummating their relationship... for the time being, but clearly the SO seeks something that's missing from the marriage.

What if you catch them at that point? Dig through e-mail. Follow them around. You can't be sure they're not fooling around. But empirically they're not (yet). I would think that knowing your SO must fill an emotional void elsewhere is just as traumatizing as a one night stand.

I'm trying to see this from a female's perspective. It's like how sometimes people say kissing is more intimate than 'doing it.'
 
And I wouldn't be mad if he confided in his male friends and needed them for emotional support (yeah, like that happens with guys....lol)...so what do I care if he confides in his female friends...! It's all good if you know and trust your man (or gal)...Although his hand holding with a male friend might concern me a bit also...
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VH...yah I think what you are talking about is a form of adultery though maybe a strong term for it. If something is MISSING in the marriage and the partner has to seek it elsewhere with someoe else, that IS a problem. Couples therapy!
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heh and if you really want to stir the pot..ask what people think about forgiveness. If they caught their spouse in a compromising position, whether it is what you describe, or actual consummation of the other relationship. Could you salvage the relationship? Does it matter if it's a marriage or just a bf/gf situation? IMO it's a case of saying one thing but not knowing unless you have actually been there..who REALLY knows what they would do? In Kobe's case..a big diamond makes all right..but in middle-America? What cuts it?
 
you know you wanna do it...everybody wants to do it....(History of the World with Mel Brooks...my favorite scene) LOL

Eh, if your SO needs someone else to spill his or her gutts out to, well then there is a problem in the relationship I think....
 
Yes. I see adultery as more than just sex. It's committing the 'crime' in emotional as well as in physical form. Adulterous sexual acts don't just happen. They start somewhere deeper long before they commit the act. The signs are just ignored.

(That's not to say that I don't notice the occasional hoochie!)
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Vh, to answer your question, making no assumptions on the state of a relationship...




I would die if there was an emotional attachment versus the purely physical one. To me a marraige isn't about keeping your hands off of others, it's actually committing work and effort to making a lifetime bond and friendship work with so many external factors against you.




I have never liked men who had an affinity to simply be physical. If there are no mental connections in their relationships, to me, they are incapable of seperating the physical initmacy and the physical. I sadly dated some guys like that. $ex was $ex, and that's it. It didn't matter who and how and why... Those are the guys who never understand the bond of marraige, so they are the most likely to cheat.




So many factors can aggravate such a thing to happen (by the man OR woman). I actually know of more cases where the woman has been disloyal more than men....As i see it, marraige itself is too sacred to happen without the connection, respect for the other person, and the ability to compromise and self-sacrifice. It's toughter for men perhaps to resist physical temptations, but women are more likely to have "affairs". The long standing kind that include deception and months or years of hiding and meeting...




In the end, the body is just a body, but when you break someone's trust, someone's belief that you would do anything to make them happy, and betray them in the emotional sense, I think that's what makes cheating, truly "cheating".




Sad to say, I knew someone who was married for 28 years, and she knew her husband had flings with other women. She learned to overlook them. But when he finally stopped, she realized that they never had an emotional connection, and oddly, THAT'S what made her divorce him... just a thought....
 
the term i've heard for this one is "emotional affair," and the rule of thumb is pretty simple: if you're afraid of telling your spouse everything you've said and done with this person, you're having one.




in answer to vtigger's question:




Which cost more ? mink coat or the fake breasts maybe she goes for sims too,their alot cheaper
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if i recall correctly (this was 15 years ago), the mink was $5k, the breasts $4k. neither was really an improvement, imo--they made her a walking example of that saying, "it costs a lot of money to look this cheap."
 
I think 4k only gets you one boob these days Cap'tn! LOL
And a fur will only get you some red paint...
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On 6/15/2004 4:42:06 PM CaptAubrey wrote:


the term i've heard for this one is 'emotional affair,' and the rule of thumb is pretty simple: if you're afraid of telling your spouse everything you've said and done with this person, you're having one.


in answer to vtigger's question:


quote]


I dunno know, Capten. Where's that line? I was in a situation years ago. A male friend/collegue & I bonded immediately in many aspects of our lives. We shared a common passion of our area of expertise. His wife hated me & he would kinda omit that we were working on something together. Yep, just a dumb guy mistake to make his life easier. They were not having marital problems persay - but he truly did not understand women & the marital partnership - stormy relationship would be a description. He started confiding in me as he was at a loss (grew up in an all male household). Some of the things he did were laughable classic male stuff. I would coach him in the art of how *not* to irritate his wife. Fast forward all these years - they *both* are amoung *our* Best friends. And, we still confide in one another. I consider them like family.

So, did we cross over the line? This one's a slippery slope. Personally, I think one crosses over the line when one is not fulfilling the marriage emotionally because too much energy is spent fulfilling a relationship *outside* the marriage.

But, to even add a new dimension, I don't think "emotional affairs" are limited to another member of the opposite sex. One could have an emotional affair w/ a parent.
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On 6/15/2004 5:28:55 PM Mara wrote:


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That said, I really do think adultery is just that. I think sex of some kind has to be involved.

And, the bottom line "emotional affairs" IMHO, could be anything that stands in the way of the personal relationship between husband & wife. I've seen many marriages end because the husband's mistress is his work. On the flip side, I've seen wives whose mistress's is their children. Reverse the roles as well.
 
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On 6/15/2004 3:00:11 PM moremoremore wrote:

oh, I just read VH's post.... That answer requires too much thought on my part right now VH...LOL...well, you had me until the hand holding...Yup, that'll do it...Where's my baseball bat? hehehehehe
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mmm,
baseball bat? i thought you would use a knife. how come it's always the men's fault when it takes two to tango? boy, where is dr. ruth when you need her?
 
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VH--The man gets the baseball bat b/c he is the one you are supposed to be able to trust--unless the woman is your best friend or something! Ugghhhh!
 
Okay, Mara, you asked about forgiveness, so here goes. My husband and I were in the car one day and the subject of affairs came up. Probably some stupid movie or something we watched, I don't know why. I looked at him and said that (very seriously) I could forgive him one, but only one affair; so he'd better make it count. He said, "you could forgive me"? I said, "After I kill her and bury her deep, and put your privates in a jar on the bedside, I'd be over it." He knows I meant it then, and I mean it now.
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Forgiveness takes many forms.
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Shay
 
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On 6/15/2004 2:47:06 PM verticalhorizon wrote:



Question: What IS adultery?

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VH, haven't you just got engaged? Tough Qs like this are supposed to come later on, no ?

Well... I think it's any personal relationship on which the default partner has not and is unlikely to agree with. You'd probably be surprised to find out what a diverse bunch couples do agree on
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As a social worker I tell people that emotional abuse is just as scarring as physical, so I feel that emotional betrayal is just as damaging as sexual betrayal. A lie is a lie, pain is pain.
 
Haha Shay...*I* believe you!!!




This may sound very odd but I have always believed that if something happened and I was told about it BY HIM as opposed to finding out for myself through his lies or from someone else..I would be more prone to trying for forgiveness. If there was proactivity on his part for knowing he did something wrong...and wanted to move forward (with me hopefully or else then it's 'Waiting to Exhale' and clothes burning in the car!!!)...then I tend to think it would be *doable*. Not fun, or easy but possibly doable, with counseling etc. But the whole lying, behind the back finding out from a receipt and lipstick on the collar...NO WAY...and then of course its WTE with the clothes in the car thing....thats a Classic!!!
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Hopefully I shall never have to find out my capacity for forgiveness or lack thereof in these circumstances!
 
I don't think I could forgive. But, I've never been in that situation. The senario Mara laid out made it as easier pill - but I still dunno.

I know an acquaintance whose hubby was sued for alienatin of affection. She found out about the affair when she went to buy something & a large amount of money was missing- the money that settled the suit. It's easy to be judgemental - but for me - I'd be more inclined to pull a Lorena. She's still with him.
Every time I think of this I go Blech.
 
Oh my gosh, Mara that is so true. I know for a fact that if I were going to be able to work at getting past something like that, I had better hear it from him. I am so not into public humiliation. If I heard even a whisper from someone else, he would so be fertilizing my roses. If he came to me first, (that way if someone else knew, I wouldn't look like a fool for not knowing if it was brought up) then there would be a much better chance of me trying to get past the whole ordeal.

Shay
 
I would not be able to forgive my husband if he lied to me. I would rather be divorced. I know that if we remained together I would make every single day he was married to me a living hell because not a moment would go by without me feeling angry and hurt. It would not be fair to either one of us to remain married under that kind of hostility.

Honesty and trust are the very foundation upon which I build my relationships and if those had been compromised I would no longer find the relationship meaningful. I could not maintain a relationship with a person I could not trust and if my husband ever lied to me, I would end our relationship. He has known from the beginning that my mantra is "If you lie to me, say good-bye to me."
 
I don't think I would forgive and go on with our marriage, no matter how I found out. The foundation of marriage is trust, respect and partnership, and I think this would undermine all 3 of those things. I couldn't just act like they hadn't happened and return to normal.
 
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On 6/27/2004 3:40:55 PM lop wrote:

I don't think I would forgive and go on with our marriage, no matter how I found out. The foundation of marriage is trust, respect and partnership, and I think this would undermine all 3 of those things. I couldn't just act like they hadn't happened and return to normal. ----------------
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That's exactly the way I feel.
 
I don't think I can know how I would react until I was faced with the situation myself. I've seen two women very close to me betrayed by their husbands with an affair. One woman was married for 17+ years with 3 kids, and the other was married for 30+ years with 2 kids. It totally devasted these women and changed their lives forever.

After seeing what they went through, the only thing I know for sure is this: 1. you have no idea what it's like until you've been through it yourself. 2. You can't predict how you will react or if you will be able to stay with your spouse until you've been there.

Hopefully, I will never find out for myself.
 
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On 6/27/2004 4:27:20 PM sumi wrote:

... It totally devasted these women and changed their lives forever.

After seeing what they went through, the only thing I know for sure is this: 1. you have no idea what it's like until you've been through it yourself. 2. You can't predict how you will react or if you will be able to stay with your spouse until you've been there.

Hopefully, I will never find out for myself. ----------------
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Well said. I sure hope you don't find out either.

I watched my mother go through it after 30 years with my father...It devastated all of us. The stories I could tell you would blow your mind...
 
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