How am I supossed to deal with his Bachelor Party

[Harleigh]

Well said, Gypsy!

It''s all about respecting yourself, your relationship and the trust you have in one another...

 

[bee*]

Date: 2/26/2008 12:58:23 AM
Author: Gypsy
Melpa, I have a lot of problems with your post. And one of them is the derogatory terminology you used regarding stippers. But as that one has been (handlily) addressed already. I''m gonna address some other issues.


1. Not all men think with their penises alone. That''s a convenient and BS cop out that actually EXCUSES their behaviour and sanctions it ina backhanded way. Men, especially grown men with a strong sense of moral judgement (and I''m not talking about biblical or religious moral judgement here, just general), have the ability to exert themselves and tell their penises NO. Believe it or not. It''s true. My fiance does not cheat. Not because he loves me, not because he''s magically different than other people. But because he respects himself and me, and would not respect himself if he betrayed me or our commitment in that way.


2. IF a man knows that he can''t control himself on alcohol, and by the time a man is old enough to be getting married he knows this about himself, THEN HE SHOULDN''T DRINK THAT MUCH. Again, it''s about respecting yourself. About the man respecting himself.


3. Just because I''m not threatened by a stripper or a lap dance, doesn''t mean that my fiance and I do not have clear boundaries. We have, as adults do, talked about these boundaries and so he knows where the boundaries are without my treating him like a four year old and saying ''Honey when you go out tonight, don''t touch any strange women''s tatas.'' I respect him, as he respects me and himself, to know where the line is, and abide by it. NOT only because of his feelings for me, but because of his feelings for himself. He LIKES himself, respects himself, and trusts himself. That''s what gives me faith in him, and makes me feel secure.


And I too have gone to strip clubs with my fiance. And gotten a kick out of it. And there is nothing wrong with it. Or me. or him. Or the women dancing.

Well said Gypsy! I totally 100% agree with you. Melpa, your post really bothered me too by the way but kelpie responded to it the way I would have.

 

[allycat0303]

Well I don''t think there is any right or wrong answer with this one. And I''ve learnt over the years that this is one of those things that woman vehemently disagree with one another.

I think we can all agree that every couple has different bounderies, what he or she considers right for herself and for her relationship. I don''t think that anyone can say ''''that''s a legitmate boundary, or this one is, or this one is wrong, etc.'''' I don''t know if it''s about trust or anything, but comfort level.

I personally feel for me, if my guy is oogling naked woman, that is disrespectful to ME. It might not be disrespectful to another couple etc., but I don''t delve into deeper reasons of why I feel the way I do. It makes me uncomfortable and that''s it. Actually last night I asked my guy if he thought me oogling naked men was disrespectful to him, and he admitted that YES he did. It doesn''t mean there is anything wrong with a woman who has no issues with it (actually more power to you if you feel good about it).

I think what''s really important is that the OP has boundaries that she is comfortable with, and that HE RESPECTS. I think the actual nature of the boundary is unique to each couple.

 

[melpla]

I agree, allycat0303, that it is disrespectful for him to ogle naked women.

Sorry that my previous post bothered a couple of you; I often speak with dramatic flair about such things quite freely. However, I stand behind the gist of my previous post completely. We''ll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[sunnyd]

Date: 2/25/2008 6:45:05 PM
Author: julabean

Oh, sunnyd: As awesome as bright lights and 5 feet ordinances would have been, that piece of legislation didn''t actually pass in King County. Alcohol can''t be served at stripclubs, but people can still get as many lapdances as they want/can afford.

Oops. LOL, as you can guess, I''m not a frequenter of strip clubs.

 

[TravelingGal]

Melpla, I can see why some may find your post offensive, but I understand the gist of it and it''s a sentiment that a lot of women have. Not all that out of line, IMHO.

For me, I guess I''m just a little more laid back about it within the context of a bachelor party. Would I have an issue with it if TGuy wanted to go to strip bars ALL THE TIME? Probably. But for a BP, I say, go enjoy, have fun. I have no problem with him looking. It''s like going to the movies. Enjoy the show.

If I went to a male strip show, I''d look. And appreciate the hotness. And if they came and sat on me, I''d laugh and go with the flow. I don''t think in my mind I''d be thinking anything too disrespectful to TGuy. It just is what it is.

Now, I understand that men are wired differently. A male strip club where women are giggling is quite different from where women are stripping and men are ogling. But really, I have no problem if TGuy thought, "ooh, she''s hot." or "nice (insert body part here)" or "I''d do her." You know why? Because those thoughts probably go through a man''s head over normal women they see on the street every day. It''s what they DO about it that makes it disrespectful or not to me.

Yes, your man may find himself with a stripper on him. He''ll also find women flirting with him in real life. Or flat out hitting on him. There will be temptations in many forms that present themselves to him during the course of your marriage. I just have confidence that at the end of the day I am the one he decided to spend the rest of his life with. I am the one he loves. I am the one he wants to go to bed with when all is said and done.

Naive? Maybe. Ignorant? Who knows. I just call it a simple faith. Without it, it can drive a woman mad.

 

[FrekeChild]

Well said as always TGal.

As I see it, I have no problems putting blind trust into someone I am going to spend the rest of my life with, until they give me a reason to no longer trust them.

Anyway, from what I understand is that Bachelorette parties often get WAY more out of hand than Bachelor parties.

 

[Gypsy]

I'm hoping mine gets out of hand.

We're going to a spa for massages, pedicures, manicures, mud and seaweed treatments and mimosas. I really hope to be a super relaxed, slightly buzzed, jelly for muscles, my jaw aching from too much laughing WAY outa hand bride. I want to be poured into the car and taken home, boneless from the full body massage and mimosas.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Very well said, TGal. I also understand the "if I wouldn't be okay with a woman hanging on him in normal scenarios, why would I be okay with him paying for it?" mentality. And if it's NOT okay, that's fine, each person has their own boundaries and that your spouse respects those boundaries is what is important.

The thing is that you can't remove temptation--there are gorgeous men and women in every day life. There are people who find your current/future spouse to be funny/cute/intelligent. That's life. I realize that in a strip club they are paid to flatter men, but it happens in real life, too. And it happens to us--we know that there are men around us who would be happy to date us given we weren't taken. There are probably even men around us with whom we could have a good relationship if we were single. When you're married, you know that door is closed and are happy to close it. Maybe I'm naive, but even with "temptations" around every day, I never once have thought to slightly question DH--I'm sure many of you can relate. We knew that being married didn't mean we would never find other people attractive, but that the fact that other people are attractive or are attracted to us is irrelevant. It simply doesn't mean anything to us.

So while I personally couldn't care less about the strip club thing because I have no fears of him finding something better (good luck, ha!), I dont think it is wrong to have boundaries if it does bother you. But if the point is to try to remove any temptation, it's not going to work Also, if he can't respect the boundaries you set, that's another problem.

 

[diamondfan]

I agree that real life is more apt to present a man with opportunities. Most men do not frequent strip clubs on a regular basis, but they do work with women etc. And I have known women who DO NOT CARE that a guy is taken (engaged, married or seriously dating). There must be a core of trust and respect, period, that is a presumed thing to me. A friend said once, just because you are on a diet that does not mean you do not check out the menu. Some might argue if you are dieting, why put yourself in the position to blow it by hangning out in a restaurant serving things you cannot have? I say, be prepared for all scenarios, and being able to realize that you love your partner, you chose them, but all attractive people in the world around you do not cease to exist. To me, ultimately, it is about CHOICE. Whatever may or may not be available to you, you chose not to partake, even if you could do so easily.

 

[Independent Gal]

I wonder if OP is still out there reading?

 

[gtn]

Date: 2/26/2008 12:28:01 PM
Author: Gypsy
I''m hoping mine gets out of hand.

We''re going to a spa for massages, pedicures, manicures, mud and seaweed treatments and mimosas. I really hope to be a super relaxed, slightly buzzed, jelly for muscles, my jaw aching from too much laughing WAY outa hand bride. I want to be poured into the car and taken home, boneless from the full body massage and mimosas.

Gypsy you made me laugh. I''m going to tell my MOH that I want what you want.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 2/26/2008 4:09:24 PM
Author: gtn

Date: 2/26/2008 12:28:01 PM
Author: Gypsy
I'm hoping mine gets out of hand.

We're going to a spa for massages, pedicures, manicures, mud and seaweed treatments and mimosas. I really hope to be a super relaxed, slightly buzzed, jelly for muscles, my jaw aching from too much laughing WAY outa hand bride. I want to be poured into the car and taken home, boneless from the full body massage and mimosas.

Gypsy you made me laugh. I'm going to tell my MOH that I want what you want.

I'll meet you at Burkes at the Hotel Valencia!

 

[melpla]

Date: 2/25/2008 11:19:57 PM
Author: kelpie

Date: 2/25/2008 11:05:34 PM

Author: melpla

I don''t want nasty ho''s all over my fiance when he''s not in strip clubs, so why is it suddenly okay in a strip club?

Melpla, as a former stripper I find your comment extremely offensive and demeaning to women. I was a stripper, yes, but now guess what? I''m about to be a frickin'' M.B.A. and at no point was I or my colleagues ''nasty hos''. We hard hard working women who have a different comfort level with our sexuality and are very principled! I never would have achieved my educational goals had I not been able to make a comfortable living while in school. Seriously, shame on you.

Kelpie, I should probably just let this go. But, since you accused me of demeaning women, I can''t. I think the point of contention here is not whether strippers are nasty ho''s in their personal lives. And I certainly did not question your intelligence. Congrats on the MBA. As a feminist, I respect women wholly. And I also respect education, as I am soon to have a doctorate myself. Women are smart; I''m all about that. I am the first to attack anyone who demeans women. And I am sure that plenty of strippers are decent people in their personal lives, probably often strip out of financial necessity, and would not consider having sex for money (although, obviously, those who do private parties often DO have sex, whether it''s girl-on-girl with another stripper or with clients). However, in my view, as any kind of stripper, one takes on a skanky ho persona, at least while one is grinding up on strange men. That''s the gig. No sense in getting into a philosophical debate over the difference between a ho and a ho persona. It''s splitting hairs. The point is, I don''t want crotch on my man; that''s it. Strip clubs may be fine for single men (though I don''t really think so), but women who feel disrespected as a woman by what goes on in strip clubs have the absolute right to voice that and not be accused of being insecure with themselves or their relationships. I would appreciate not being accused of demeaning women. On the contrary, I support women speaking out against behaviors they simply are not okay with. I find a lot of women who question accepted rituals like bachelor party debauchery are accused of being insecure in their relationships or not as comfortable with their sexuality, and that tends to put a bit of a bee in my bonnet. I consider THAT to be demeaning to women and their intelligence. I am not trying to start a big pile-on or argument here, but I had to speak my piece.

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

I understand where you are coming from melpla, but the starter of this thread was worried she could not trust her FI with alcohol and friends and naked women and that is a problem. I am ok with it for my FI in large part because I do know I can trust him.
Whether it is appropriate or not for a couple depends entierly on them and I agree it is unfair to judge a relationship unstable if the woman doesn't want her SO dancing with women who are paid to be naked. In her case, it sounds like somewhere they was a serious breakdown in either trust or communication, and the party is just how it manifested.

 

[melpla]

I guess that''s really what my problem is with this dialogue. This strip club thing seems to have become a litmus test by which women are expected to determine whether they are secure in their relationships. As for me, I will not drink that particular kool-aid. I find it dangerous and deceptive.

All I''m saying is question the very frames within which we discuss these issues. Speaking of which, one misconception mentioned earlier that I wanted to comment on is the notion that seems to have gained a lot of traction in popular culture, that strippers are more comfortable with their sexuality. In my view, strippers just have a different sense of privacy and boundaries with strangers than women who would not consider that profession. It has nothing at all to do with sexuality or comfort thereof, and I find that to be a rather destructive view. There may be no boundaries sexually between two lovers. Yet, one woman would not go there with random dudes while another would. The issue, to me, is more one of boundaries and privacy, not sexuality.


I am all for personal choice and would not dream of proclaiming what others should do. But, I do not understand why it would be okay for a naked woman in a club to touch your man, but not a woman in "real life." If it were okay in either case, that would make more sense to me. But alas, it''s all a mass delusion to me. I don''t understand why a monogamous man (keyword monogamous) would go to watch a woman shoot a projectile from her crotch and not find that disrespectful to his wife (and, hell, to all women everywhere). But hey, that''s just me.

 

[FrekeChild]

I just want to mention that every stripper I've come into contact with, and it's quite a few, has been either a grad student or a med student. It's easy money and I have no problems at all with the profession or my BF watching. I don't even care about lap dances. He's coming home to me, and that is what is important.

Now if I were afraid he wasn't coming home to me, I think that is huge reason for concern. Because there are serious trust issues going on.

ETS: My reasoning as to why it's ok for her to touch him while she's working and not in real life? Because she's getting PAID to perform for him. More often than not, strippers aren't interested in sex with attached men, and even most unattached men.

 

[melpla]

Sorry, Frekechild, it still makes zero sense to me. But what other people do in their lives does not have to make sense to me. The world is a big place. If it works for you, and you have no problems supporting an industry that makes women into objects, go for it.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 2/26/2008 11:02:55 PM
Author: melpla
Sorry, Frekechild, it still makes zero sense to me. But what other people do in their lives does not have to make sense to me. The world is a big place. If it works for you, and you have no problems supporting an industry that makes women into objects, go for it.

Guess what? Not all women think that it makes women into objects. Some, believe it or not, find it empowering to have that control over men. And not all women take on a skanky ho persona.

Even if you don''t support it or it doesn''t make sense to you, does not mean that you should put those people down who do.

I''m playing devil''s advocate, fyi.

And just curious, but have you ever been to a strip club?

 

[melpla]

Whether stripping is ultimately empowering or objectifying to women is a very complex issue and one that I doubt we''d resolve here. However, I will agree that certainly stripping is empowering to many women in certain ways, not only financially, but in other ways (seeming to have power over men, etc); yet, one must consider not only what is expedient to strippers, but also take into consideration the broader context: is the universe that this industry is contributing to one in which women are more empowered, regardless of whether individual strippers feel empowered by what they are doing? I''m not intending to answer that question here, though I''m sure you can infer my thoughts from my previous posts.

I didn''t intend to put down people who support strip clubs at all. I simply said I didn''t understand the seeming contradiction. I am NOT for shutting down strip clubs, nor am I on any moral quest. However, I think we all have a responsibility to consider the broader consequences of our consumption, not just how it makes us feel. We should also question the framing of these issues and choose consciously, seeking not just what is presently and personally expedient. If this sounds like a put down to anyone, that''s not my intention.

I think we can put a fork in this conversation now.

 

[risingsun]

Date: 2/26/2008 10:55:42 PM
Author: FrekeChild
I just want to mention that every stripper I've come into contact with, and it's quite a few, has been either a grad student or a med student. It's easy money and I have no problems at all with the profession or my BF watching. I don't even care about lap dances. He's coming home to me, and that is what is important.

Now if I were afraid he wasn't coming home to me, I think that is huge reason for concern. Because there are serious trust issues going on.

ETS: My reasoning as to why it's ok for her to touch him while she's working and not in real life? Because she's getting PAID to perform for him. More often than not, strippers aren't interested in sex with attached men, and even most unattached men.

And this makes it acceptable? If she's giving him a lap dance, she's performing on him...If you are comfortable with your fiance doing this, more power to you. If it were my DH, he would be sleeping in the garage

 

[Gypsy]

I think it''s time for some lemon pie folks. Seriously. Let''s relax, have some pie, ogle our bling... forget the men, the strippers, and moral discussions that aren''t going anywhere. Who wants the first slice.

 

[diamondfan]

In honor of spring/summer can I have peach pie please?

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 2/27/2008 12:39:45 AM
Author: diamondfan
In honor of spring/summer can I have peach pie please?

I have a feeling spring and summer are wishful thinking from Philly at the moment... but you can have ANY flavor you want. I just opened a pie shop. And I dont'' really care for Lemon pie myself, so I think I''ll have a slice with you DF. Peach pie it is! *Passes pie to DF*

 

[diamondfan]

Is that like the movie Waitress? (your shop, I mean!) I saw it, with Keri Russell. She would create amazing combos in pies and name them really odd names. Apparently her pies could bring people to tears. I am more a traditionalist though. I have a question though. Does anyone eat rhubarb? It looks like celery with a sunburn to me.

Spring will get to Philly, eventually...(it better!).

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 2/27/2008 12:22:09 AM
Author: risingsun

Date: 2/26/2008 10:55:42 PM

Author: FrekeChild

I just want to mention that every stripper I've come into contact with, and it's quite a few, has been either a grad student or a med student. It's easy money and I have no problems at all with the profession or my BF watching. I don't even care about lap dances. He's coming home to me, and that is what is important.


Now if I were afraid he wasn't coming home to me, I think that is huge reason for concern. Because there are serious trust issues going on.


ETS: My reasoning as to why it's ok for her to touch him while she's working and not in real life? Because she's getting PAID to perform for him. More often than not, strippers aren't interested in sex with attached men, and even most unattached men.

And this makes it acceptable? If she's giving him a lap dance, she's performing on him...If you are comfortable with your fiance doing this, more power to you. If it were my DH, he would be sleeping in the garage

Um. In case you didn't read my earlier post in which I said that my BF would have a bachelor's party with video games, Kool Aid and Mountain Dew...yeah. I'm not concerned about it, and even if he did want to have a stripper (his best friend is so innocuous he's never had a girlfriend) his best friend wouldn't know what to do. So I'm not concerned, and have no reason to be. Plus his best friend from Taiwan and probably has no idea about crazy American Bachelor Parties.

So you can see that personally, I have nothing to worry about. Even if I did, I still trust BF, he's not stupid, he can't drink, and he's not interested in touching or receiving lap dances from strippers.

Yes I'm comfortable with my boyfriend getting performances from a non-existent stripper for his Bachelor party.

When I just asked him about what he thinks about lap dances he says, "From you? Ok. From a stripper? Not interested. From a dancer in a show in Las Vegas? Sure, because it's for entertainment purposes." Me, "What about a strip club?" Him- "I would only go to a strip club to make someone uncomfortable. Like Bob. I'd laugh so hard because he wouldn't be comfortable at all, and it'd be funny to watch him." And I laughed hysterically. (Bob is his best friend, his name has been changed to protect the innocent, the very innocent).


ETA: I need to make some strawberry rhubarb pie. I've always heard it talked about, but never tasted it. Although if I'm honest, I'd have to say it always looks kind of gross. I'm not a big berry pie fan in general. Now berry cobbler on the other hand, I'm there.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 2/27/2008 12:51:13 AM
Author: diamondfan
Is that like the movie Waitress? (your shop, I mean!) I saw it, with Keri Russell. She would create amazing combos in pies and name them really odd names. Apparently her pies could bring people to tears. I am more a traditionalist though. I have a question though. Does anyone eat rhubarb? It looks like celery with a sunburn to me.

Spring will get to Philly, eventually...(it better!).

WIll have to rent the movie, haven''t seen it. I like rhubarb. But your description made me laugh... sunburn. FREKE HONEY HAVE SOME FREAKING PIE!

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 2/27/2008 1:32:50 AM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 2/27/2008 12:51:13 AM

Author: diamondfan

Is that like the movie Waitress? (your shop, I mean!) I saw it, with Keri Russell. She would create amazing combos in pies and name them really odd names. Apparently her pies could bring people to tears. I am more a traditionalist though. I have a question though. Does anyone eat rhubarb? It looks like celery with a sunburn to me.

Spring will get to Philly, eventually...(it better!).

WIll have to rent the movie, haven't seen it. I like rhubarb. But your description made me laugh... sunburn. FREKE HONEY HAVE SOME FREAKING PIE!

No need to yell. I'm just being a bit

ish right now. Plus, I don't have any pie, and it's too late to make any.

Now cookies on the other hand... JK I'm going to bed.

I hope this post is down towards the bottom by the morning. I'd stop playing devil's advocate with everyone if they'd just agree to disagree. Actually, I'm done anyway. Not worth my time to sit here and chuckle evilly while posting stuff. I'd rather sit here and eat pie while posting stuff. Cheers ladies! Have a good night, one and all!

Here is my offering to this thread: Peace pie. Pun totally intended. Hee hee hee. Goodnight for real now!

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 2/27/2008 1:49:20 AM
Author: FrekeChild

Date: 2/27/2008 1:32:50 AM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 2/27/2008 12:51:13 AM

Author: diamondfan

Is that like the movie Waitress? (your shop, I mean!) I saw it, with Keri Russell. She would create amazing combos in pies and name them really odd names. Apparently her pies could bring people to tears. I am more a traditionalist though. I have a question though. Does anyone eat rhubarb? It looks like celery with a sunburn to me.

Spring will get to Philly, eventually...(it better!).

WIll have to rent the movie, haven''t seen it. I like rhubarb. But your description made me laugh... sunburn. FREKE HONEY HAVE SOME FREAKING PIE!

No need to yell. I''m just being a bit

ish right now. Plus, I don''t have any pie, and it''s too late to make any.

Now cookies on the other hand... JK I''m going to bed.

I hope this post is down towards the bottom by the morning. I''d stop playing devil''s advocate with everyone if they''d just agree to disagree. Actually, I''m done anyway. Not worth my time to sit here and chuckle evilly while posting stuff. I''d rather sit here and eat pie while posting stuff. Cheers ladies! Have a good night, one and all!

Here is my offering to this thread: Peace pie. Pun totally intended. Hee hee hee. Goodnight for real now!

Mmmm.... (didn''t mean to yell, sorry). Looks like chocolate cream pie (real whipped cream) with chocolate wafer crust. I''ll have a slice of that too! (What me? Need to fit into a wedding dress in 6 months? Nahhhh....).

Good night hon.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/27/2008 12:22:09 AM
Author: risingsun

Date: 2/26/2008 10:55:42 PM
Author: FrekeChild
I just want to mention that every stripper I''ve come into contact with, and it''s quite a few, has been either a grad student or a med student. It''s easy money and I have no problems at all with the profession or my BF watching. I don''t even care about lap dances. He''s coming home to me, and that is what is important.

Now if I were afraid he wasn''t coming home to me, I think that is huge reason for concern. Because there are serious trust issues going on.

ETS: My reasoning as to why it''s ok for her to touch him while she''s working and not in real life? Because she''s getting PAID to perform for him. More often than not, strippers aren''t interested in sex with attached men, and even most unattached men.

And this makes it acceptable? If she''s giving him a lap dance, she''s performing on him...If you are comfortable with your fiance doing this, more power to you. If it were my DH, he would be sleeping in the garage

Hey, some are comfortable, some are not. No right and wrong. Everyone should be honest with what they are comfortable with.

Personally what Frekechild says makes sense to me. TGuy is not going to be flattered by some stripper trying to dance on his lap. She''s most likely not doing anything but try to make a buck.

What''s the motive behind a woman wanting to touch TGuy in real life? And how would he process that information? Would he be tempted? Flattered? Freaked out? Reality adds another dimension that just isn''t present in a strip club, IMHO.

If a male stripper touched you, would you think it was the same as a male coworker touching you? A guy you met at a bar?

I don''t see why it would make more sense if both were the same to me. It''s just not the same. I do agree though that strip clubs, etc should not be a litmus test on whether you trust your guy or not. Some ladies trust their men but don''t like the whole concept of bachelor parties and strip clubs. That''s totally understandable and should be voiced and concerns heard and considered.