How important is sexual fidelity to you?

[LilAlex]

I am 100% sure about my dh and his past behavior and while I cannot predict anything future wise with 100% certainty this is not an issue I am concerned about. But I can’t say the above with 100% certainty about anyone besides my DH and my immediate family

When we had kids, we learned that there is a big gap between having unconditional love for someone and having complete confidence that they have never or will never lie, disappoint, do drugs, take unnecessary risk, etc. It is humbling. I love all my kids and each has a great moral compass -- but they are not robots programmed by me to please me or live up to my standards.

And when it comes to leaving your very young kids with the people you have trusted the most in your entire life, there is still that tiny voice in your head that says "But I don't really know this unfailingly reliable person in this exact situation...and the stakes are so high..."

I don't have 100% confidence in anyone and I don't think my spouse does either. Then again, we generally don't need it.

And I am 100% certain of my past behavior because honestly 20 years feels like yesterday to me.

You really have eidetic memory for your lifetime of words and deeds? You must win every argument.

 

[missy]

And when it comes to leaving your very young kids with the people you have trusted the most in your entire life, there is still that tiny voice in your head that says "But I don't really know this unfailingly reliable person in this exact situation...and the stakes are so high..."

Yes unfortunately when you have kids you cannot be too careful ever.

I still remember with horror what happened to a family on the UWS in Manhattan with a trusted nanny who murdered their 2 children.
That has stayed with me all these years later. In that case they thought they knew her and obviously they had no idea.

If I had kids the only people I could trust with complete confidence would be my parents and my sister. I would have zero qualms about leaving my kids with my immediate family.

 

[telephone89]

So I've been thinking on this for a few days, and I think to really answer the question "why would you throw everything away for one momentary lapse of judgement" - it isn't one single momentary lapse. It wasn't an accident that he would kiss/fu#k/fall in love with someone else, it's 1,000 tiny decisions that led astray. Like he saw some hot thing and felt those butterflies...we are human, it happens. But why didn't he shut it down? Why did he pursue her? Why did he take her out to lunch (made up scenario ftr haha)? Why did they end up in a hotel room together? Etc etc etc. It's not just ONE mistake that happens, people choose to cheat, and they choose to make thousands of tiny decisions that lead them there. So no, I don't think I would feel like my marriage was "a good one" if my husband is pursuing another woman, and no I don't think I could feel cherished, loved or emotionally secure with my husband making these type of choices - choices that do not benefit me or our marriage - to pursue a lay.

 

[missy]

It's not just ONE mistake that happens, people choose to cheat, and they choose to make thousands of tiny decisions that lead them there.

Yes to everything you wrote.
For an affair to occur, IMO, is a (big) breakdown in the relationship.
It's not signaling a small problem rather a huge problem as far as I see it.
Once it gets to that point there's been damage to the relationship.
Is that damage irrevocable? Depends I guess.
But personally yes. I won't accept less than from my partner.
Respect, trust, all necessary components of any relationship but especially a romantic partner.
And once those are gone I don't see how you can move on in the relationship. I mean yes there are people in mediocre relationships but that is not my thing. I would rather be alone than be in a relationship where I cannot trust my partner.
I don't give my heart easily but when I do I expect it to be not trampled on and smashed to bits.

 

[Jambalaya]

Just a few quick thoughts: (Well, mine are never quick, but I'll try!)

I was speaking very much in general terms when I was talking about men and sex drives and testosterone. GENERALLY speaking, women have less desire to sleep around, and sex often goes out the window when kids come along because moms get so damn tired and often the partner doesn't help enough. How many times have you heard women say that sex is another chore? Then consider how many times you've heard a man say sex is a chore? There is much variation among individuals, but broadly speaking, cis men and women are often quite different, sexually. I definitely think that women have strong sex drives too, but they tend to come out under very different circumstances: when we feel loved and cherished, when we know our partner well, feel safe with them, and when we are not overloaded and overwhelmed with tasks, to cite a few examples.

Due to brain differences and hormonal differences between men and women, it's easier for many men to compartmentalize and separate love and sex than it is for many women. These are generalities and of course they don't apply to all members of all genders. But they are overall patterns observed in many societies over countless years, and it's true that men have vastly higher amounts of testosterone. Together with the right and left sides of the brain being less connected in men, if this means that they really CAN separate love and sex more efficiently than women, I wonder if the reason men so persistently step out on their marriages more than women do is because it really really doesn't mean much to them, due to this separation, and so they really can't fathom why it's such a big deal, maybe only really getting it when they see how upset their partner is. Just theorizing here.

I read a story in the international press just now about a young sports player who was caught performing a s*x act on the wife of his friend. Both marriages are now over and they both had three small kids. Eight broken hearts, all for a quick rub. So, so awful. The couples are young and have so many years to go that if I were a betrayed spouse, I'd be EXTREMELY concerned it would happen again, even if ten years from now. I think the only two routes to saving the marriage would be a) if the unfaithful spouse committed to intense therapy exploring what led him to hurt so many people for so little. Does he have a sex addiction? Does he secretly not want to be married? Is the truth that he just doesn't really want monogamy? I would try to really drill down in therapy and get some real answers, which would only be possible if he were willing to be open and honest and really expose his psyche on this matter. If he was, I'd have to see what info I got before deciding if/how to move forward. It MIGHT be a path to a more honest life, whether apart or together.

The other possibility would be that he admits he finds monogamy difficult, she remembers the good old days of feeling young and adored by suitors, and they agree with equal enthusiasm to release each other from the constraints of monogamy, while staying together.

But if he refused to be honest and open and do the deep-sea drilling in therapy, the scenario where I was the virtuous injured party and he the supplicant, and I was forever waiting for it to happen again...just no. In that situation, I'd have too much of my life ahead of me and he'd have thrown so much away, with the three children and everything, that I'd have to divorce him.

However, if you're older and don't have kids or the kids are grown...Some people have mentioned that their lives would feel like a lie. I can totally understand that. But it doesn't mean that it's true...all the times he was wonderful were still real. (This ONLY applies to a scenario where the marriage was good, not to one where he started being an a-hole while seeing other people.)

I'm thinking about all this because I'm newly single, and I feel I've seen quite a lot of life in the last few years. When I was younger, I was fiercely romantic and monogamous. Right now, I'm older with health issues on the horizon, and as I see "the eternal foot man hold my coat, and snicker," (T.S. Eliot), I feel less monogamous than I've ever felt in my life. I wasted so much time in the wrong relationships. I certainly couldn't enter into another committed relationship in the foreseeable future. When I valued monogamy, I was committed to it with all my heart and wanted the same from him. These days, I would never promise monogamy that I knew I couldn't deliver. And I'm not interested in marrying again - i.e being in a position where someone else's bad choices about their genitals could up-end my whole life and affect my home, my retirement, my social circle...Just no. I have too many other stresses and strains going on to make myself vulnerable to that, and my health isn't great. At some point we have to protect ourselves.

Obviously that doesn't apply to people who are in long-term and trustworthy marriages, but there's nothing like having your spouse decide they don't love you anymore and a subsequent divorce to acquaint you with the hard reality of the other side of the marital coin. Perhaps I'll just live alone and have nice companions stay over a few times a week...

Sorry for rambling on about myself, it's late, and I've spent a lot of time in the hospital having tests this week. All's well. Just too tired to think straight right now.

Edit: Final thought. I think there are big differences between people who are in longterm, stable marriages where they really trust their partners, and people who have been let down in their marriages. It's almost like, when you know what a house of cards it can be, you don't respect it or hold up mutual monogamy as a marital keystone anymore. You feel like, "I refuse for my mental health to be held prisoner by this promise of whose keeping I have zero control."

I guess marriage just works out really well for some people, and not for others, and it would make a lot of sense that ideals are intact for the first group, but not so much for the second.

 

[ame]

1) Absof@ckinglutely tell the person their significant other is cheating. I WISH someone had told me before I found out for myself (not that I didn't have suspicions already), and I won't hesitate to tell someone else. Hell I literally just did last week, screenshots and all.

2) I am of the mind that if there's literally any contact with anyone else outside my relationship that could be remotely construed as secretive, sexual, emotional, or otherwise untrustworthy, it's cheating. Any gray area? It's cheating. Any gut feeling that something is not 100% me and me only? It's cheating. That's a choice made outside of the relationship that is 100% disrespectful and thus no recovery can be made, the minute it happens, the minute the opportunity is presented or any flirting occurs, it's over. Non negotiable.

3) My ex was abusive in about every way possible, and it took me years to get out. The cheating was just piled on top of that. As a result, I trust NO ONE, and don't think I ever will again. ANY dishonesty or secretive behavior is a dealbreaker for me. I learned the hard way that if someone can't match your effort and be a true partner, that the relationship isn't really a relationship, and it's time to walk away. I also know my ex was a narc, and absolutely was untreated bipolar. But the few people I've talked to since divorced and the INSANE number of married men out on the prowl have convinced me there's no point in giving anyone a chance--AND that I will lose all interest, respect, in someone so quickly, and will walk away without another word if I find out they were in any way not all in.

 

[mrs-b]

I always say that my spouse was born looking for a life-long relationship to settle into. He is inherently, genetically, morally, habitually loyal, and I LOVE it.

As this entire forum knows, I recently had a major back surgery that entailed removing so much bone (and 5 lumbar/hip punctures and marrow removals, I discovered this morning when I finally was able to bring myself to read the surgical notes - which explains a whole heap of the pain in my hips) - I just about feel like I had my spine removed, rebuilt, and put back in. (Not true - but that's how it feels.)

My husband, amongst a zillion other things, has to help me put on my shoes and socks each day. Yesterday, as he was kneeling in front of me, sliding my feet into my socks, he was telling me jokes to distract me from what is actually quite a painful process. For one split second, he looked up at me laughing, his eyes sparkling, and I experienced that short, sharp, intake of breath that goes along with your stomach going flip-flop - when you realize you're looking at the one person in all the world you want above all others. And they're RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOU - smiling into your SOUL - putting on your socks for you, because they love you.

I've worked in dispute resolution for many years, and reading people accurately and quickly is part of the job. There is nothing that would kill those butterflies in my tummy faster than even the slightest suspicion that I was 'all in'...but he wasn't.
And I'd know. I'm sure I would. There is no keeping a secret like that from me.

God bless him for never putting me through that - I know emotionally I'd never recover. For me, all in is all in.

PS. I will never read him this post. The surgery has left me with a good solid dose of PTSD and I currently cry at E-VER-Y-THING. Reading this to him would cause a flood of tears that would last from now till breakfast. You know - the "I...love..<hiccup>..you so...MUUUUUUCH...and I...I...can't...even..<blow-snort>...EXPRESS...how..<wail>..WONDERFUL....." Anyway, you get the general idea. I'm looking forward to the day where I can tell him again I love him without needing a whole roll of toilet paper to mop up the tears and snot associated with getting the words out.

 

[Demon]

I always say that my spouse was born looking for a life-long relationship to settle into. He is inherently, genetically, morally, habitually loyal, and I LOVE it.

As this entire forum knows, I recently had a major back surgery that entailed removing so much bone (and 5 lumbar/hip punctures and marrow removals, I discovered this morning when I finally was able to bring myself to read the surgical notes - which explains a whole heap of the pain in my hips) - I just about feel like I had my spine removed, rebuilt, and put back in. (Not true - but that's how it feels.)

My husband, amongst a zillion other things, has to help me put on my shoes and socks each day. Yesterday, as he was kneeling in front of me, sliding my feet into my socks, he was telling me jokes to distract me from what is actually quite a painful process. For one split second, he looked up at me laughing, his eyes sparkling, and I experienced that short, sharp, intake of breath that goes along with your stomach going flip-flop - when you realize you're looking at the one person in all the world you want above all others. And they're RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOU - smiling into your SOUL - putting on your socks for you, because they love you.

I've worked in dispute resolution for many years, and reading people accurately and quickly is part of the job. There is nothing that would kill those butterflies in my tummy faster than even the slightest suspicion that I was 'all in'...but he wasn't.
And I'd know. I'm sure I would. There is no keeping a secret like that from me.

God bless him for never putting me through that - I know emotionally I'd never recover. For me, all in is all in.

PS. I will never read him this post. The surgery has left me with a good solid dose of PTSD and I currently cry at E-VER-Y-THING. Reading this to him would cause a flood of tears that would last from now till breakfast. You know - the "I...love..<hiccup>..you so...MUUUUUUCH...and I...I...can't...even..<blow-snort>...EXPRESS...how..<wail>..WONDERFUL....." Anyway, you get the general idea. I'm looking forward to the day where I can tell him again I love him without needing a whole roll of toilet paper to mop up the tears and snot associated with getting the words out.

He sounds like and awesome husband. Nice to see you and I hope your recovery moves more swiftly!

 

[Star gazer]

I always say that my spouse was born looking for a life-long relationship to settle into. He is inherently, genetically, morally, habitually loyal, and I LOVE it.

As this entire forum knows, I recently had a major back surgery that entailed removing so much bone (and 5 lumbar/hip punctures and marrow removals, I discovered this morning when I finally was able to bring myself to read the surgical notes - which explains a whole heap of the pain in my hips) - I just about feel like I had my spine removed, rebuilt, and put back in. (Not true - but that's how it feels.)

My husband, amongst a zillion other things, has to help me put on my shoes and socks each day. Yesterday, as he was kneeling in front of me, sliding my feet into my socks, he was telling me jokes to distract me from what is actually quite a painful process. For one split second, he looked up at me laughing, his eyes sparkling, and I experienced that short, sharp, intake of breath that goes along with your stomach going flip-flop - when you realize you're looking at the one person in all the world you want above all others. And they're RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOU - smiling into your SOUL - putting on your socks for you, because they love you.

I've worked in dispute resolution for many years, and reading people accurately and quickly is part of the job. There is nothing that would kill those butterflies in my tummy faster than even the slightest suspicion that I was 'all in'...but he wasn't.
And I'd know. I'm sure I would. There is no keeping a secret like that from me.

God bless him for never putting me through that - I know emotionally I'd never recover. For me, all in is all in.

PS. I will never read him this post. The surgery has left me with a good solid dose of PTSD and I currently cry at E-VER-Y-THING. Reading this to him would cause a flood of tears that would last from now till breakfast. You know - the "I...love..<hiccup>..you so...MUUUUUUCH...and I...I...can't...even..<blow-snort>...EXPRESS...how..<wail>..WONDERFUL....." Anyway, you get the general idea. I'm looking forward to the day where I can tell him again I love him without needing a whole roll of toilet paper to mop up the tears and snot associated with getting the words out.

Sending you so many hugs and healing energy!! I hope you feel stronger with each day <3

 

[finerthings]

I always say that my spouse was born looking for a life-long relationship to settle into. He is inherently, genetically, morally, habitually loyal, and I LOVE it.

As this entire forum knows, I recently had a major back surgery that entailed removing so much bone (and 5 lumbar/hip punctures and marrow removals, I discovered this morning when I finally was able to bring myself to read the surgical notes - which explains a whole heap of the pain in my hips) - I just about feel like I had my spine removed, rebuilt, and put back in. (Not true - but that's how it feels.)

My husband, amongst a zillion other things, has to help me put on my shoes and socks each day. Yesterday, as he was kneeling in front of me, sliding my feet into my socks, he was telling me jokes to distract me from what is actually quite a painful process. For one split second, he looked up at me laughing, his eyes sparkling, and I experienced that short, sharp, intake of breath that goes along with your stomach going flip-flop - when you realize you're looking at the one person in all the world you want above all others. And they're RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOU - smiling into your SOUL - putting on your socks for you, because they love you.

I've worked in dispute resolution for many years, and reading people accurately and quickly is part of the job. There is nothing that would kill those butterflies in my tummy faster than even the slightest suspicion that I was 'all in'...but he wasn't.
And I'd know. I'm sure I would. There is no keeping a secret like that from me.

God bless him for never putting me through that - I know emotionally I'd never recover. For me, all in is all in.

PS. I will never read him this post. The surgery has left me with a good solid dose of PTSD and I currently cry at E-VER-Y-THING. Reading this to him would cause a flood of tears that would last from now till breakfast. You know - the "I...love..<hiccup>..you so...MUUUUUUCH...and I...I...can't...even..<blow-snort>...EXPRESS...how..<wail>..WONDERFUL....." Anyway, you get the general idea. I'm looking forward to the day where I can tell him again I love him without needing a whole roll of toilet paper to mop up the tears and snot associated with getting the words out.

@mrs-b That was a beautiful post! Welcome back and continued good vibes for healing progress post back surgery.

 

[SandraLynn]

It’s pretty important to me. I could deal with many other things but infidelity is not one. I would be devastated to learn my fiancé cheated on me. I understand that men can compartmentalize sex but cheating is a choice that you have many opportunities to change your mind or not go through with it before the physical act happens.
He knows I would absolutely leave him if it happened. There are so many stressors in life, your relationship should not be one, in fact it should be a place of comfort. My relationship before my fiancé I dealt with finding my ex on dating sites while we were together and he was manipulating. Never again. I would rather die alone than live in a constant state of being unsure and uneasy.