How much would you buy this natural ruby 2.9ct for?

[fredflintstone]

If i am going to lose money (because of the low resale value) anyways, I’m thinking auction could work better than say James Allen?

Don't count on it.

Who is James Allen?

 

[fredflintstone]

Spot on explanation

Well, first you have to always assume that the vendor is posting only the pictures that make the gem look as good as it's ever gonna look. So the right angles, studio lighting, and so on. The vendors who consciously aim to post photos that are fully representative are few and far between. So you always have to think, if this is how the gem looks at its absolute best, then what is it going to look like in average light? How is it going to perform in poor light?

Some telltale signs on this particular ring:
- not one of the pictures is face up, they're all tilted;
- every single one of the photos is in a studio, there aren't photos in different light, on hand and so on;
- the colour of the ruby from the bottom when flooded with light is a wonderful vibrant and bright red, which means the ruby is probably a lot darker. Looking a stone from the bottom always shows a lighter, less saturated colour;
- the lotus report photo shows that the stone is very included whereas the studio photos are trying to hide the inclusions;
- the algt report shows a dramatically different colour and obvious huge window.

In defense of vendors, ugly pictures and videos don't sell stones.

Though I agree that there are vendors out there that greatly enhance the look of a stone, more don't as a person who has bought from hundreds of source dealers, but there is a good share who do. That is why I say buy from American or first world dealers for the consumer. Not saying also that there are not scammers in these countries too, but less of a chance, and normally you don’t have five people with five different prices trying to sell the same stones as in Pakistan and some other countries.

No vendor profits from a stone being sent back by misrepresenting its videos and pictures, but some oversea dealers trying to get a refund is like pulling teeth.

Always use PayPal and have the vendor send you an invoice or pay as merchandise from your PayPal account so you are protected.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

If i am going to lose money (because of the low resale value) anyways, I’m thinking auction could work better than say James Allen?

Auction is risky, everyone knows what they're bidding on and you must take into account 'the house's' commission. Some are very reasonable and some are quite high.
Auctions and pawn shops are usually something you tackle after you've learned enough about colored stones to accurately gauge what it is you're buying. That takes some real time. Personally, I would stick to vendors, Etsy, etc. with good return policies. Insta is another route but there are usually no returns.

 

[minousbijoux]

Auction is risky, everyone knows what they're bidding on and you must take into account 'the house's' commission. Some are very reasonable and some are quite high.
Auctions and pawn shops are usually something you tackle after you've learned enough about colored stones to accurately gauge what it is you're buying. That takes some real time. Personally, I would stick to vendors, Etsy, etc. with good return policies. Insta is another route but there are usually no returns.

I can't stress this enough, as some of us find pawn shops and auctions so daunting that even after YEARS of buying stones and being educated, we are still too intimidated to buy this way. My most favorite stories here are the ones who brave second hand and estate jewelry shops, fall in love with a piece, send it off to AGL/GIA and are rewarded when it comes back as a major, untreated gemstone. There are stories where PSers have found beautiful paraibas, demantoids, sapphires and even a ruby or two this way.

 

[Bron357]

Auction houses usually charge both the seller and buyer. The commission can be as high as 27%. Even eBay has fees to sell around 14% (no fees for buyers luckily).
The problem anyone, other than a reputable well known business, has is trust or lack thereof. Most educated buyers know to ask for reputable lab certificates, uneducated buyers usually only buy from mall stores or places that feel safe to them.
Rubies are one of the hardest gems to assess. You really need to understand the nuances of origin, tone and hue and treatment levels. Thats why people want reputable lab certificates. There’s “heat”, there’s “high heat”, there’s heat with beryllium diffusion, there’s heat with residues (some to heavy) and theres glass filled and only a reputable lab can investigate and report accurately. You can’t tell from a photo or a video. And the price difference can be $50 a carat compared to $20,000 a carat.

 

[mayday]

This topic is awesome! I am learning so much from our in-house ruby educators!

 

[fredflintstone]

Auction houses usually charge both the seller and buyer. The commission can be as high as 27%. Even eBay has fees to sell around 14% (no fees for buyers luckily).
The problem anyone, other than a reputable well known business, has is trust or lack thereof. Most educated buyers know to ask for reputable lab certificates, uneducated buyers usually only buy from mall stores or places that feel safe to them.
Rubies are one of the hardest gems to assess. You really need to understand the nuances of origin, tone and hue and treatment levels. Thats why people want reputable lab certificates. There’s “heat”, there’s “high heat”, there’s heat with beryllium diffusion, there’s heat with residues (some to heavy) and theres glass filled and only a reputable lab can investigate and report accurately. You can’t tell from a photo or a video. And the price difference can be $50 a carat compared to $20,000 a carat.

Even eBay has fees to sell around 14% (no fees for buyers luckily).

Yes, but you can be sure if you're buying the stone out right from e bay, that fee is included in the seller's price. Even auctions with a reserve. No reserve auctions are huge gamble for the average person, but these source dealers get these stones for pennies on the dollar.

 

[kakadttt]

Thanks for all the help friends. What do you guys think about this ruby I'm eyeing? Is it worth a least 2000? GIA certificate says 'Orange-red' in color, and weight 2.6ct, treatment listed 'no indication of heating'.

 

[Jadaph]

This doesn’t look like a Ruby to me. I wouldn’t pay $200 for it

 

[kakadttt]

This doesn’t look like a Ruby to me. I wouldn’t pay $200 for it

it has a GIA certificate for ruby though...is GIA not trust worthy for ruby? See the photo on GIA's report:

 

[VividRed]

You are better off trusting your eyes. It may technically be a ruby (sapphire with 51% or more red) but it surely isn’t a good one, regardless of what GIA says. They are only expected to identify the mineral species and use some rules to distinguish between sapphire and ruby - and even this can be tricky as the line between the two is not clearly defined. I would call this a commercial quality reddish orange sapphire.

What are you looking for exactly? That is the first question you need to answer. And then decide the budget, accepting you will likely never recover the the price you paid should you choose to sell it.

Tell us more about your preferences and we might be able to help. With 2k you can buy a nice heated 1ct ruby with minor/moderate flux residue that will look 10x better than the ones you posted to far. If you want a nice 2ct+ ruby you will have to consider a significantly higher budget (think 7-8k+) for heated and flux healing

 

[kakadttt]

You are better off trusting your eyes. It may technically be a ruby (sapphire with 51% or more red) but it surely isn’t a good one, regardless of what GIA says. They are only expected to identify the mineral species and use some rules to distinguish between sapphire and ruby - and even this can be tricky as the line between the two is not clearly defined. I would call this a commercial quality reddish orange sapphire.

What are you looking for exactly? That is the first question you need to answer. And then decide the budget, accepting you will likely never recover the the price you paid should you choose to sell it.

Tell us more about your preferences and we might be able to help. With 2k you can buy a nice heated 1ct ruby with minor/moderate flux residue that will look 10x better than the ones you posted to far. If you want a nice 2ct+ ruby you will have to consider a significantly higher budget (think 7-8k+) for heated and flux healing

from what you are saying, i am getting the sense that this pick is one step closer to your standard of quality in ruby i hope. I'm buying a ruby for someone who is very dear to me, but i am running out of time before I have to make a final call on what to pick....so i'm offering this one for 1000. that sounds like a fair price for an untreated ruby like this one, you think? Or do you think i can do better with my 1k?
for this gift, my priority is 1) resale value (or just the real value of the stone) so i had prioritized 'untreated' stones, and then 2) the size (over 1.5ct) as well as color, and last is 3) clarity. i don't mind inclusion as long as it's transparent. Given my priority and big budget limit (<2k), do you think this is a good pick in terms of value though?

 

[Rfisher]

for this gift, my priority is 1) resale value

Because of this statement - and solely because of this statement after 72 posts on this thread-

Purchase the stone(s) you are looking at.
Then while within the vendors return period-
take them where ever you would typically go to resell the items. Get their feedback.

Their opinion should hold more weight for you?

finding someone who is in the market, and wants this ( brownish looking in my guess) stone when you are ready to sell it and has the available funds is more than half the battle. You can’t control that aspect.

Very very few people - who don’t have something to gain by telling you otherwise - will tell you by purchasing retail jewelry you’ll able to recoup most of your money back by selling.

 

[Avondale]

In the world of coloured stone the saying goes, "colour is king". Colour is the first and most important determining factor of value and price. Colour can be a deciding factor in whether a stone's worth is in the hundreds, thousands, or tens of thousands per carat.

Yet you put it in third place. If colour is third in your list of priorities, you're going to end up with a less than optimal choice of stone no matter. Might as well just buy whatever comes next on your screen and call it a day.

If your main priority is resale value, you're taking a huge risk. I honestly can't understand why it's so important to you, and the only reason I can imagine is because you want the person receiving the ruby to be able to sell it and get some money out of it. But in order for that to happen, they'll need to be very very lucky to have someone willing to buy that particular ruby from them for the price they're asking, and that is not a likely scenario, especially with a stone that has been selected with colour only being third in the list of priorities.

People who aren't familiar with the gem trade often don't realise how slowly the stock moves. This isn't a clothing store, it's not selling bags which will eventually go by the end of the season. Just a few examples that I know of:
- the ruby that I bought nearly a year ago had been in stock for at least 6 months prior as that is how long I had stalked it for before pulling the trigger;
- a sapphire ring I bought a couple of months ago had been sitting in the vendor's inventory for about a year and a half;
- the vendor I bought the ruby from has a sapphire that still hasn't sold, nearly a year later;
- my local jeweller sold me a sapphire in the autumn of 2021. Back then he had a yellow sapphire in his inventory which is still there today;
- again my local jeweller, he had an emerald in 2019 which is still in his shop today;
- I started looking at rubies sometime at the end of 2021, beginning of 2022 and a large number of the rubies I had bookmarked as inspirations are still available and waiting for a buyer.

Gemstones take literal years to be sold by professional vendors. The reason things sometimes go quickly on the second hand market is because they're both desirable and a deal to the person buying. But you gotta consider that also means that the person selling is most of the time taking a big loss, often times more than 50% of what they originally paid.

As long as resale value is your top priority, we can't advise you. We can help you select a beautiful ruby that will be enjoyed by the person receiving the gift, but since that's not what you want, there really isn't much else we can help with.

 

[kakadttt]

In the world of coloured stone the saying goes, "colour is king". Colour is the first and most important determining factor of value and price. Colour can be a deciding factor in whether a stone's worth is in the hundreds, thousands, or tens of thousands per carat.

Yet you put it in third place. If colour is third in your list of priorities, you're going to end up with a less than optimal choice of stone no matter. Might as well just buy whatever comes next on your screen and call it a day.

If your main priority is resale value, you're taking a huge risk. I honestly can't understand why it's so important to you, and the only reason I can imagine is because you want the person receiving the ruby to be able to sell it and get some money out of it. But in order for that to happen, they'll need to be very very lucky to have someone willing to buy that particular ruby from them for the price they're asking, and that is not a likely scenario, especially with a stone that has been selected with colour only being third in the list of priorities.

People who aren't familiar with the gem trade often don't realise how slowly the stock moves. This isn't a clothing store, it's not selling bags which will eventually go by the end of the season. Just a few examples that I know of:
- the ruby that I bought nearly a year ago had been in stock for at least 6 months prior as that is how long I had stalked it for before pulling the trigger;
- a sapphire ring I bought a couple of months ago had been sitting in the vendor's inventory for about a year and a half;
- the vendor I bought the ruby from has a sapphire that still hasn't sold, nearly a year later;
- my local jeweller sold me a sapphire in the autumn of 2021. Back then he had a yellow sapphire in his inventory which is still there today;
- again my local jeweller, he had an emerald in 2019 which is still in his shop today;
- I started looking at rubies sometime at the end of 2021, beginning of 2022 and a large number of the rubies I had bookmarked as inspirations are still available and waiting for a buyer.

Gemstones take literal years to be sold by professional vendors. The reason things sometimes go quickly on the second hand market is because they're both desirable and a deal to the person buying. But you gotta consider that also means that the person selling is most of the time taking a big loss, often times more than 50% of what they originally paid.

As long as resale value is your top priority, we can't advise you. We can help you select a beautiful ruby that will be enjoyed by the person receiving the gift, but since that's not what you want, there really isn't much else we can help with.

color and size are both my #2, i'm willing to compromise on size if color if great, and vice versa
but no, i don't expect the person i'm giving it to will sell it at all. but once again, i care about value and don't want to pay a lot for something that is 1/10 the price like i mentioned before. so i can take a loss when i buy, but would rather not lose 50% of what i paid for. the goal of the last post was to understand if my offer for that particular ruby is fair or too much.

 

[kakadttt]

Because of this statement - and solely because of this statement after 72 posts on this thread-

Purchase the stone(s) you are looking at.
Then while within the vendors return period-
take them where ever you would typically go to resell the items. Get their feedback.

Their opinion should hold more weight for you?

finding someone who is in the market, and wants this ( brownish looking in my guess) stone when you are ready to sell it and has the available funds is more than half the battle. You can’t control that aspect.

Very very few people - who don’t have something to gain by telling you otherwise - will tell you by purchasing retail jewelry you’ll able to recoup most of your money back by selling.

yeah no, no expectation of recouping what i paid for
just learning how to pick, starting with this smaller budget gift
and yea, the return period is 2 days so not enough

 

[MeatloafAirstrike]

There's a major difference between "Is this a fair price for the stone" and "Can I sell this stone for what I bought it for." If you are primarily concerned with not getting ripped off, the feedback you're getting is that these stones you're posting are not likely worth the price tag and you should compare the price of some of the alternatives that people are showing you to other stones you look at. Focusing on resale value is muddying the water because the answer will almost always be "no, you will not be able to sell this for what you paid for it."

 

[kakadttt]

In the world of coloured stone the saying goes, "colour is king". Colour is the first and most important determining factor of value and price. Colour can be a deciding factor in whether a stone's worth is in the hundreds, thousands, or tens of thousands per carat.

Yet you put it in third place. If colour is third in your list of priorities, you're going to end up with a less than optimal choice of stone no matter. Might as well just buy whatever comes next on your screen and call it a day.

If your main priority is resale value, you're taking a huge risk. I honestly can't understand why it's so important to you, and the only reason I can imagine is because you want the person receiving the ruby to be able to sell it and get some money out of it. But in order for that to happen, they'll need to be very very lucky to have someone willing to buy that particular ruby from them for the price they're asking, and that is not a likely scenario, especially with a stone that has been selected with colour only being third in the list of priorities.

People who aren't familiar with the gem trade often don't realise how slowly the stock moves. This isn't a clothing store, it's not selling bags which will eventually go by the end of the season. Just a few examples that I know of:
- the ruby that I bought nearly a year ago had been in stock for at least 6 months prior as that is how long I had stalked it for before pulling the trigger;
- a sapphire ring I bought a couple of months ago had been sitting in the vendor's inventory for about a year and a half;
- the vendor I bought the ruby from has a sapphire that still hasn't sold, nearly a year later;
- my local jeweller sold me a sapphire in the autumn of 2021. Back then he had a yellow sapphire in his inventory which is still there today;
- again my local jeweller, he had an emerald in 2019 which is still in his shop today;
- I started looking at rubies sometime at the end of 2021, beginning of 2022 and a large number of the rubies I had bookmarked as inspirations are still available and waiting for a buyer.

Gemstones take literal years to be sold by professional vendors. The reason things sometimes go quickly on the second hand market is because they're both desirable and a deal to the person buying. But you gotta consider that also means that the person selling is most of the time taking a big loss, often times more than 50% of what they originally paid.

As long as resale value is your top priority, we can't advise you. We can help you select a beautiful ruby that will be enjoyed by the person receiving the gift, but since that's not what you want, there really isn't much else we can help with.

please do feel free to suggest a few in my budget that is not too tiny

 

[kakadttt]

There's a major difference between "Is this a fair price for the stone" and "Can I sell this stone for what I bought it for." If you are primarily concerned with not getting ripped off, the feedback you're getting is that these stones you're posting are not likely worth the price tag and you should compare the price of some of the alternatives that people are showing you to other stones you look at. Focusing on resale value is muddying the water because the answer will almost always be "no, you will not be able to sell this for what you paid for it."

agree. thanks for saying that. i have heard that untreated ruby are rare, so i just thought the last one i posted is untreated and probably worth as least 400usd/ct, but you don't think so? how can i tell the price per ct for a untreated ruby? what is a normal rage?

 

[lovedogs]

This most recent stone is very low quality. I would not buy this as a gift because it simply isn't attractive or good looking. It's dark, completely opaque, and just doesn't look good.

As we've said, we can't help with resale value. This stone, in most of our views, isn't worth almost anything because it isn't a good quality stone.

 

[Avondale]

In that case there is one very important clarification that needs to be made.

People here can advise you if you're about to overpay for something. But as I've already mentioned, when you're buying a gemstone, you're paying for more than just the gemstone. It's like buying a car. The moment it's in your hands, it automatically loses an easy 30% of what you paid.

This last stone you posted is probably fairly priced. GIA is most certainly reputable, but you want to verify the lab report with their website prior to purchase just in case. The colour is very strongly orange. The way GIA grades colour is they put the dominant one last. Then if it's pure colour, it's going to be just "red", if it has a slight modifier, it will be "orangish red", and if the modifier is strong, it will be "orange red".

A strong orange modifier is undesirable in ruby as it leads to the stone having a brownish hue in low light, thus making it unattractive.

Another thing, when buying a stone that's heavily included, you have to consider if some of the inclusions affect the structural stability of the gem. There's a reason clarity also has a significant effect on price. This one is obviously very included, but it's impossible to judge by these images if there's a surface reaching fracture for example, or one that's located near the girdle or next to a corner. Such things can lead to the ruby literally shattering in pieces during the setting process.

please do feel free to suggest a few in my budget that is not too tiny

A good untreated ruby in your budget will be tiny. Rubies are some of the most expensive coloured gemstones, they can easily cost more than diamonds. A high quality, untreated, red, fluorescent, Burmese ruby with clear crystal can easily be priced at 5-8-10k per carat for a one carat stone. And ruby prices have been going up quite a bit as well.

Right now for 2k you might be able to find a 1ct heated stone (with some small amounts of residues if it's from Burma). Since you're willing to compromise on clarity, maybe a little over 1ct, maybe.

 

[Avondale]

i have heard that untreated ruby are rare

Yes, they are, and this is the reason why a stone that's both a ruby and untreated can cost so absurdly much, even if it's the ugliest stone in existence. But is it worth it to own an ugly stone simply because it's an untreated ruby?

 

[lovedogs]

Natural Ruby with AGL certificate 0.87 ct ** VIDEO ** in Ruby and Sapphire

Not untreated (due to price constraints) but actually attractive and would make a great gift IMHO.

 

[Rfisher]

What’s your budget for the setting?
Are you open to estate items already set?

please do feel free to suggest a few in my budget that is not too tiny

 

[lovedogs]

Under 1ct but mindblowing

Ruby No Heat 0.82 ct

Stone type: Ruby UnheatedWeight: 0.82 ctDimension: 5.77 x 4.53 x 3.45 mmColor: RedShape & Cut: Oval, Yavorskyy cut

yavorskyy.com

Small but BRIGHT

Ruby No Heat 0.66 ct

Stone type: Ruby Unheated Weight: 0.66 ctDimension: 5.71 x 4.25 x 2.93 mmColor: RedShape & Cut: Oval, Yavorskyy cut

yavorskyy.com

 

[kakadttt]

What’s your budget for the setting?
Are you open to estate items already set?

Yess ideally that comes with certification

 

[Rfisher]

Yess ideally that comes with certification

Of course with an independent lab report.

What’s your budget with setting then?

Looking for a ring or pendant or…?

 

[kakadttt]

The way GIA grades colour is they put the dominant one last. Then if it's pure colour, it's going to be just "red", if it has a slight modifier, it will be "orangish red", and if the modifier is strong, it will be "orange red"

May i ask where does GIA write out information like this? Can’t seem to find it on their website maybe I’m missing something

 

[kakadttt]

Of course with an independent lab report.

What’s your budget with setting then?

Looking for a ring or pendant or…?

Under 2k total

 

[kakadttt]

I suggest starting with noting what your eyes see. All of the rubies you've posted so far look extremely unattractive to me. A decent ruby is red-red, translucent and inclusion-free. Not brown-red, opaque or full of inclusions. Who wants an ugly gem just because it is called "ruby?"

Decent rubies are very expensive. A budget of $2,000 including the setting is way too low for what you're wanting, I think.

I would go with a lab-created ruby (they are made of the same material as mined rubies) or switch to a less expensive gem. A pretty red stone is especially hard to find so maybe re-focus to a different color gem too.

For ex. garnet or tourmaline.

Just my opinion and all that.

I think my last pick is a beautiful ruby.

I don’t want to give or keep anything lab.